Lourdes and Nolan marry - Lawsuit against DPIAT/R filed

[MissBitters]

I'm definitely not a lawyer and unfamiliar how a case like this would go so I am curious about count 3 (sexual battery) in the petition. Is it possible she specifically mentioned the kitchen incident because someone in the house walked in on her & Doug (maybe after he had assaulted her)? She lists several people at her home, including a couple of Doug's kids, and one or more them could corroborate her story. I truly hope this happens although it would be incredibly sad if one of the Phillips kids had to witness their father act like such a disgusting human being.

[kpmom]

I hope Hero does win a money settlement from Doug. My understanding is she worked for the Phillips all those years for free (correct me if I'm wrong).

She got to travel with them, big whoop. She was there as a nanny, not a sight seerer.

She deserves money for having to put up with Doug and Beall all those years, even minus the sexual stuff.

[WonderingInWA]

I hope Hero does win a money settlement from Doug. My understanding is she worked for the Phillips all those years for free (correct me if I'm wrong).

She got to travel with them, big whoop. She was there as a nanny, not a sight seerer.

She deserves money for having to put up with Doug and Beall all those years, even minus the sexual stuff.

She deserves money, but you can bet he's been smart enough to hide away whatever he's still got. I don't think she's expecting money, even though the damages will be requested at trial and expressed in monetary terms. She just wants him to pay the price for what he did to her in a more expensive way. Money is just money, reputation is something else -- especially for the narcissist DPIAT is.

[Laurabelle]

Wow. I leave for a week or so and come back to facebook to see a friend of mine had commented on the WND article someone else had posted. So I had to come over here and see what had happened! After reading both the VF response and the documentation submitted by Hero’s attorney, I went back to read what my friend had commented on the article (she’s a VF follower, her husband actually used to be an intern, I believe. Or he at least volunteered in some way years ago) and was happy at least she didn’t seem to be negating the WND article or what Hero is accusing DPIAR(apist) (DPIAT is too good for this guy right now) of.

That all being said. Wow. I feel so sad for this poor girl, that she had to endure all of this. I don’t understand how a group like VF, who claim to be Christian, can try to deny this and “pretty it up†to help DPIAR. I mean, I get that Doug himself is denying it—of course he would. This could and most definitely should land him in jail. But, I am shocked that others are defending him. This isn’t just a little infidelity. This is criminal in the most despicable sense. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked. But I am.

I know this isn’t the popular opinion, but I really, really feel for Beall. I really just can’t imagine she knew all of what was going on, even after the resignation and public confession. I just can’t imagine that she knew all of what he’d done. Otherwise, if she’s any kind of mother, she would have got her daughters out of his reach IMMEDIATELY. I just get the idea that she's been fed the “Yes I did wrong, but now I’m the victim because she’s lying†story at this point, just like everyone else around Doug seems to have been fed.

[Palimpsest]

David Gibbs Jr. who was associated with Jack Schaap's church and ATI is the father of David Gibbs III who is defending Lourdes. They have had some sort of falling out and division in the past couple of years and gone their separate ways. Clearly, Gibbs III knows a lot about patriarchy because he grew up around it and he is as frustrated with the movement as the rest of us. This explains why he wanted to take Hero's case and spelled out the issues within the movement so clearly.

Thanks for the additional information and clarifications. So it is this guy, now practicing in Dallas independently of Dad (Gibbs, Jr.), who is representing (not defending) Lourdes. ncll.org/about/david-gibbs-iii-president‎

Gibbs III was also the Gibbs who represented the Roloff Homes and Pastor Phelps in the NH Tina Anderson case.

(I hate to ask, but my quick google search on that name also brought up a domestic battery arrest in Florida for Gibbs III, charges later dropped. Same person or just the same name?)

[Marian the Librarian]

The story is showing up on more news sites - most recently on Slate.

slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/04/16/douglas_phillips_lawsuit_woman_alleges_sexual_mental_abuse_against_the

_former.html

[Curious]

I suspect so, too. It was always obvious that he like being around all of the pretty and sophisticated girls.

What's maddening is that the church (BCA) seems to be behaving as if Doug has done wrong, but is now the victim. He seems to have convinced several of them that he's now broke and is to be pitied for his misery. If that was true, it would surprise me because someone I know has been contacted by a private investigator working for him, and of course it looked like they were able to go to the Sproul wedding.

The narrative seems to be that they have never before seen such a viscous internet conspiracy to destroy a man and his business... as if all of the guys really had that in mind. I guarantee you that there was no such thing in mind, but they have to say something along those lines to keep the faithful who will not gossip under their influence. Some seem to think that they did the right thing, but the minute they let it go public they were in sin. Another family I've heard of even said in essence that because L didn't "cry out" publicly the first time, she lost the right to do so in the future or now. I know it's twisted, but that's how some of these folks think. I think that even if she was consensual for 3/4 of the time, the minute she realized it was wrong, and cried out, she was correct to do so. That is not a private matter, but like Tamar after Ammon had raped her in the Old Testament, she would go around in sackcloth and ashes and the matter would become publicly known.

It would almost be funny that they are making this kind of stuff up if it wasn't so far from the truth and hurtful to the ones who actually cared. Doug has forgotten the words of Scripture, - faithful are the woulds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

The process of "grooming" is well understood and that is with people that are NOT raised in what the complaint called a "total institution" (I think that is right). I can't even imagine how much easier it would be for someone like Doug Philips, who is a tool of the highest order (I always type Dough, incidentally), to groom a young girl that he's essentially hand picked from early teens.

Given that the culture pretty much automatically puts all the blame for a mans "stumbling" on women, how exactly do these people think that a girl that has been raised in this culture and groomed since she was 15 was supposed to put a stop to it at the first incident or the second or the 54th? Who was she supposed to tell that would believe her and not place the blame on HER? I find it kind of amazing, she found the wherewithal to come forward about it at all, given the "women are always to blame" nature of the culture she was raised in. She is clearly a VERY strong woman.

We have long questioned the relationship between the Phillips and Torres families here on FJ. I don't think anyone here thought that Doug was abusing Lourdes in a sexual way (at least not when it was brought up years ago), but it was clear from the beginning that due to the income disparity he was taking advantage of them. I'm sure the Torres family didn't feel that way about it (at least initially). I'm sure they thought that Doug was being generous to offer them housing, to take them on trips and to offer their children (unpaid) employment in a "safe" and Godly home so they didn't have to worry about them being exposed to the horrors of the outside world. Sadly, the outside world could see that nothing good was happening there because Doug is not a good person and despite what our new "friend" in the other thread says, I have doubts that he ever was.

[apple1]

(I hate to ask, but my quick google search on that name also brought up a domestic battery arrest in Florida for Gibbs III, charges later dropped. Same person or just the same name?)

Same person. Not sure what that was about, or what the charges were about in the first place, or why they were dropped. A couple of sites I used to read at one point had posted (purported to be, anyway) mug shots.

I did not know that Gibbs Jr. and Gibbs III (who I did know were father and son) had a falling out. Anybody have any links?

Aside: I recently found out that Gibbs Jr's office is in my own community, actually within almost walking distance of my house. Not sure how long he has been in that exact location.

[DomWackTroll]

Michael Farris FB post: "I wish I had spoken up sooner. There was no way that I could have known that Doug was involved in sexual misconduct, but I knew that he was involved in unscriptural views about women in his teaching. He was teaching that girls should never go to college. I started a college where half the student body is female and PHC just elected a woman student as the President of the Student Body. He was teaching that girls should basically stay in their father's home until marriage. I sent my oldest daughter off to Cedarville University and my second daughter off to Romania as a missionary. I thought my actions would speak louder than his words. I wish I had used words too."

facebook.com/michael.farris.374/posts/570486939715669?stream_ref=1

ETA: Be sure to read the replies, because there's a little meltdown going on over there.

[MrsFoxx]

Michael Farris FB post: "I wish I had spoken up sooner. There was no way that I could have known that Doug was involved in sexual misconduct, but I knew that he was involved in unscriptural views about women in his teaching. He was teaching that girls should never go to college. I started a college where half the student body is female and PHC just elected a woman student as the President of the Student Body. He was teaching that girls should basically stay in their father's home until marriage. I sent my oldest daughter off to Cedarville University and my second daughter off to Romania as a missionary. I thought my actions would speak louder than his words. I wish I had used words too."

facebook.com/michael.farris.374/posts/570486939715669?stream_ref=1

That guy is only one step up from DPIAT. I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him. Forgive me if I doubt his sincerity.

[marmalade]

It is David Gibbs Jr. who defended First Baptist Church Hammond. He can be seen at the 2:10 mark here, speaking from the FBCH pulpit shortly after the revelations about Schaap became public.

It is also Gibbs Jr. who is associated with IBLP.

Gibbs Jr. was at one time also the president of ACE - who sold homeschool materials competing with VF's materials.

Here is Gibbs III in the same pulpit (first 5 seconds of video).

Gibbs III was the Schiavo attorney.

My apologies for not separating the two Gibbs in my earlier posts.

Both of these guys ARE the Christian Law Association - a non-profit, in addition their personal law practices.

Homeschool Legal Advantage is an offshoot of the Christian Law Association. HLA (sort of) competes with HSLDA (for which DPIAT was a lawyer for 6 years).

http://pathnc.org/links/homeschool-legal-advantage-hla/

I still suspect there is historical hard feeling/competition/something between the Gibbs(es) and DPIAT.

Thanks! This makes much more sense. Not knowing there were two Gibbses in the first place, I was baffled when I saw Jr. was speaking at Big Sandy, but made mention of Gothard's sex case in the Complaint.

[Arete]

Question for any of the legal eagles here.

What is the legal definition of rape? I ask because the Tool clearly forced himself on her according to the complaint, and uh...completed a sex act. Would this not be considered rape, or is the fact there was no penetration discount this as rape?

TYIA

[Arete]

That guy is only one step up from DPIAT. I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him. Forgive me if I doubt his sincerity.

QFT. He is just engaging in the ancient practice of trying to cover his ass.

[tropaka]

not a lawyer but I think "rape" in Texas is Aggravated Sexual Assault and includes forced oral/vaginal/anal sex or touching of sexual organs.

[Phoebe]

Congratulations to the happy couple -- may you enjoy a long, contented life with each other!

[Curious]

Question for any of the legal eagles here.

What is the legal definition of rape? I ask because the Tool clearly forced himself on her according to the complaint, and uh...completed a sex act. Would this not be considered rape, or is the fact there was no penetration discount this as rape?

TYIA

Texas (and many other states) no longer codify rape as rape, but rather use the term sexual assault. This is the current statute in Texas:

§ 22.011. SEXUAL ASSAULT. (a) A person

commits an offense if the person:

(1) intentionally or knowingly:

(A) causes the penetration of the anus

or sexual organ of another person by any

means, without that person's

consent;

(B) causes the penetration of the mouth of

another person by the sexual organ of the actor, without that

person's consent; or

© causes the sexual organ of another person, without that person's consent, to contact or

penetrate the mouth, anus, or sexual organ of another person, including the actor;

[Palimpsest]

That guy is only one step up from DPIAT. I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him. Forgive me if I doubt his sincerity.

Libby Anne just tore into Farris over this - she's accusing him of being the ultimate lying hypocrite over DP.

[TrueRebel1]

Forgive me if this is slightly off-topic.

Ever since we received our first Vision Forum catalog (the very first one, I believe, which would have been 1998), something in my teenage fundie mind was put off by the young woman model used throughout the catalog. It was the daughter of "Little Bear Wheeler", and she was probably about 20 at the time. Although I loved her look, and wished I could be as elegant and graceful as she was, it bothered me that, in a setting where girls and young women are supposed to be hidden away in their families, her pictures would be posted for thousands of families to see. My goodness, she even had boobs! How could VF justify a model like that?! Why didn't they at least use a non-mature looking 10 year old? That is what I wondered even back then.

Now that recent facts have come to light, and some of you have also mentioned wondering this: I seriously wonder if the TOOL had previous or other victims. That catalog came out in 1998. He met Lourdes in 1999. Young miss Wheeler also had that beautiful brunette look going on. These are facts that make me go hmmm.

[HereticHick]

Every time I think of Perry & Kim C (Life in a Shoe) now, I think of 2 things:

1. How creepy it is, in hindsight, that Perry took his multiple teenage daughters to work at the Vision Forum warehouse. Kim posted recently that some of them went with him almost every day.

2. How interesting it is that these daughters (and Perry) are heavily into self defense classes (Krav Maga specifically). Coincidence?

[Laurabelle]

Libby Anne just tore into Farris over this - she's accusing him of being the ultimate lying hypocrite over DP.

Link?

[thoughtful]

Forgive me if this is slightly off-topic.

Ever since we received our first Vision Forum catalog (the very first one, I believe, which would have been 1998), something in my teenage fundie mind was put off by the young woman model used throughout the catalog. It was the daughter of "Little Bear Wheeler", and she was probably about 20 at the time. Although I loved her look, and wished I could be as elegant and graceful as she was, it bothered me that, in a setting where girls and young women are supposed to be hidden away in their families, her pictures would be posted for thousands of families to see. My goodness, she even had boobs! How could VF justify a model like that?! Why didn't they at least use a non-mature looking 10 year old? That is what I wondered even back then.

Now that recent facts have come to light, and some of you have also mentioned wondering this: I seriously wonder if the TOOL had previous or other victims. That catalog came out in 1998. He met Lourdes in 1999. Young miss Wheeler also had that beautiful brunette look going on. These are facts that make me go hmmm.

Hopping on the ISB with you -- there was a big falling-out between Little Bear and Doug at some point, wasn't there? Maybe Little Bear being suspicious of Doug's intent, or actual attempted or completed acts, had something to do with it.

[kpmom]

Michael Farris FB post: "I wish I had spoken up sooner. There was no way that I could have known that Doug was involved in sexual misconduct, but I knew that he was involved in unscriptural views about women in his teaching. He was teaching that girls should never go to college. I started a college where half the student body is female and PHC just elected a woman student as the President of the Student Body. He was teaching that girls should basically stay in their father's home until marriage. I sent my oldest daughter off to Cedarville University and my second daughter off to Romania as a missionary. I thought my actions would speak louder than his words. I wish I had used words too."

facebook.com/michael.farris.374/posts/570486939715669?stream_ref=1

ETA: Be sure to read the replies, because there's a little meltdown going on over there.

Oh, please. Farris' ass kissers are just too much. He's soooo brave for speaking out. :roll:

What's brave about speaking out now against someone who is going down in flames?

At least a few comments called him out. I liked one in particular that asked if the Homeschool Defense League will now recommend homeschoolers not go to yearly conventions where many of the leaders are just as patriarchal as Dougie.

[Maxwell]

Hopping on the ISB with you -- there was a big falling-out between Little Bear and Doug at some point, wasn't there? Maybe Little Bear being suspicious of Doug's intent, or actual attempted or completed acts, had something to do with it.

Thought that had to do with the Epstein's excommunication. IIRC, Wheeler took them in to his church since DPITA was being unreasonable, Doug got mad about it and cut him out of the gravy train. Eventually, Wheeler's church issued a statement that the Church leadership didn't have a beef with Doug. It was a odd statement in that, the beef had NEVER been with the Church leadership and the wording of the letter was very weasel like, sorta trying to say something with out really saying anything.... Ahh, yes... here it is... posted on BCA's website:

/www.boernechristianassembly.org/letters/2008/01/living-water-fellowship-respon.php

[Palimpsest]

Link?

Sorry. I'm reduced to my Kindle Fire today (hate that thing) and can't post links for some reason. Libby Anne is at Love, Joy, Feminism on Patheos if you google.

[Laurabelle]

Every time I think of Perry & Kim C (Life in a Shoe) now, I think of 2 things:

1. How creepy it is, in hindsight, that Perry took his multiple teenage daughters to work at the Vision Forum warehouse. Kim posted recently that some of them went with him almost every day.

2. How interesting it is that these daughters (and Perry) are heavily into self defense classes (Krav Maga specifically). Coincidence?

I really hope it is a coincidence. It makes me sick to think that he (or any VF worker with daughters for that matter) knew what DPIAR was doing with/to Hero and perhaps felt they needed to know how to protect themselves.