Lourdes and Nolan marry - Lawsuit against DPIAT/R filed

[FundieWatcher]

I'm late, but congrats to the newlyweds. Knowing how Nolan has been outcast by his friends/family it makes him a hero to me. He stood up for what was right. Funny, he the one that is actually following what Doug taught about protecting women.

[FJSharkJump]

Who really knows other than that he's got a sick fantasy going on in his head that he was living out in his abuse of Lourdes. It's pretty clear, I think, that he has music in his head most of the time that drowns out any resemblance of the morals he preaches. Just my thoughts.

I think WinWa meant to link to the duet that Doug & his daughter performed at that awards show. I only watched the first few seconds of the link before I posted (because that's about all of Doug I could tolderate) and assumed that the duet showed up later in the clip.

Here's the duet if you wanna feel ill: http://vimeo.com/59454915

STOP TOUCHING HER!! SHE IS CLEARLY UNCOMFORTABLE!! SHE IS CONCENTRATING ON SINGING!! SHE DOESN'T NEED OR WANT YOU TOUCHING HER!! LEAVE HER THE FUCK ALONE YOU CREEPY ASSHOLE!!

DPIAR is so good at this, he was able to corner his own kid into accepting his unwanted contact on stage in front of hundreds of people.

[TrueRebel1]

In case people haven't seen it yet, the Daily Beast has a great piece out that sets DPIAT's shenanigans in the context of the larger (possibly imploding) patriarchal movement: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ement.html. (Mucho Duggar refs, natch.)

Just read this, and I think it's a perfect, balanced commentary on the breaking news in the fundie world. I wish I had the courage to post this on my fb for all my fundie friends to see! Unfortunately, it might make some of my family really upset at me... :roll:

[Palimpsest]

Seems to me that Eston was roundly ridiculed here for this. Could be wrong, maybe I'm thinking of SSB. Think what you want of Jen & TW but one has to conceded that much of what they have said has turned out to be fairly accurate. Not saying they don't have an agenda or are 100% right on all their stuff, but I have always thought it odd that they are so readily dismissed and yet seem to eventually be proven out.

**Edit: Some day I'll learn to type, spell and proof read.**

SSB and JensGems have been squabbling for some time. I forget how it started.

As far as FJ is concerned, I don't think ridiculed is the right word. General annoyance at salacious and unverified details, twists and turns, changing stories, and the mean-spirited outing of Mrs R (who was a total red-herring) caused criticism here. Including a lot by me. Their inaccuracies made it hard to trust them on anything, although some of their gossip turned out to be verifiable by other sources. It was better to rely on other sources.

Also, speaking for myself alone, I took major issue with Kershaw Eston very early on. His nasty agenda and barely concealed Kinism were clear to me quite quickly. If Eston is Kershaw, and I think he is, his agenda in taking down the Sprouls and Dougs of this world is clear. He thinks they are way too liberal and tolerant!

[LucySnowe]

Isn't Beall even a tiny bit concerned about the allegations that Tool told Lourdes " wife would die soon"?

And the fact that he seems to have said this frequently [i skimmed the deposition while sleep-deprived, so I could be misremembering] - how else can this play out?

- DPIAT says many times that the First Mrs Phillips will die soon

- First Mrs Phillips dies

- DPIAT wails publicly for, oh, twenty minutes

- DPIAT marries so fast the corpse is still warm

- Second Mrs Phillips happens to mention that her new hubby had assured her the First Mrs Phillips was about to pop her clogs

- The police not only exhume the body of the First Mrs Phillips, but start digging under the patio

[if nothing untoward is discovered, possibly repeat, with the Second Mrs Phillips being replaced by the Third Mrs Phillips, etc.]

[Cleopatra7]

Just read this, and I think it's a perfect, balanced commentary on the breaking news in the fundie world. I wish I had the courage to post this on my fb for all my fundie friends to see! Unfortunately, it might make some of my family really upset at me... :roll:

I agree. This is the best article I've seen that explains why the Duggar connection to these seemingly peripheral scandals matters.

[FJSharkJump]

SSB and JensGems have been squabbling for some time. I forget how it started.

As far as FJ is concerned, I don't think ridiculed is the right word. General annoyance at salacious and unverified details, twists and turns, changing stories, and the mean-spirited outing of Mrs R (who was a total red-herring) caused criticism here. Including a lot by me. Their inaccuracies made it hard to trust them on anything, although some of their gossip turned out to be verifiable by other sources. It was better to rely on other sources.

Also, speaking for myself alone, I took major issue with Kershaw Eston very early on. His nasty agenda and barely concealed Kinism were clear to me quite quickly. If Eston is Kershaw, and I think he is, his agenda in taking down the Sprouls and Dougs of this world is clear. He thinks they are way too liberal and tolerant!

Yup, the apropos-of-nothing public shaming of Mrs. Robinson was the end of it for me. After that, I had no interest in anything else Eston and Jen'sGems had to say. Not a reliable or trustworthy source.

[Curious]

I think WinWa meant to link to the duet that Doug & his daughter performed at that awards show. I only watched the first few seconds of the link before I posted (because that's about all of Doug I could tolderate) and assumed that the duet showed up later in the clip.

Here's the duet if you wanna feel ill: http://vimeo.com/59454915

STOP TOUCHING HER!! SHE IS CLEARLY UNCOMFORTABLE!! SHE IS CONCENTRATING ON SINGING!! SHE DOESN'T NEED OR WANT YOU TOUCHING HER!! LEAVE HER THE FUCK ALONE YOU CREEPY ASSHOLE!!

DPIAR is so good at this, he was able to corner his own kid into accepting his unwanted contact on stage in front of hundreds of people.

Oh that makes more sense. Faith has a lovely voice, it's too bad she has such a creepy, asshole for a father. I'm not much for PDA and don't particularly like people touching me, so maybe I'm reading more into it, but there are a couple times during that video that made me uncomfortable. Not all of it. I think it's normal for parents to be proud of their children and to touch them to give them encouragement, even creepy, asshole parents like Doug. A couple times though, his expression moves it from encouraging parent, to lecherous pedobear, IMO. I hope for her sake that he's just a creepy, asshole where his kids are concerned.

[MrsFoxx]

I think WinWa meant to link to the duet that Doug & his daughter performed at that awards show. I only watched the first few seconds of the link before I posted (because that's about all of Doug I could tolderate) and assumed that the duet showed up later in the clip.

Here's the duet if you wanna feel ill: http://vimeo.com/59454915

STOP TOUCHING HER!! SHE IS CLEARLY UNCOMFORTABLE!! SHE IS CONCENTRATING ON SINGING!! SHE DOESN'T NEED OR WANT YOU TOUCHING HER!! LEAVE HER THE FUCK ALONE YOU CREEPY ASSHOLE!!

DPIAR is so good at this, he was able to corner his own kid into accepting his unwanted contact on stage in front of hundreds of people.

This, a hundred times this. I pray this is the worst his daughters have dealt with.

[Palimpsest]

I agree. This is the best article I've seen that explains why the Duggar connection to these seemingly peripheral scandals matters.

Excellent article, but perhaps a little over-optimistic. I think the movement is damaged but not yet on the verge of collapse.

[karen77]

Great article!

[Curious]

Just read this, and I think it's a perfect, balanced commentary on the breaking news in the fundie world. I wish I had the courage to post this on my fb for all my fundie friends to see! Unfortunately, it might make some of my family really upset at me... :roll:

Well, I will see how many friends I lose on facebook today. wheeeeee!

[Cleopatra7]

I am currently reading a book about the lives of women in ancient Greece and Rome. As most FJer know, both cultures were extremely patriarchal systems. The men in these societies were essentially polygamous, because they could have sex with any female in their household, be it their wife or a slave girl, while the women had to be virgins (if unmarried) or monogamous (if married). Chastity was a virtue for women, not for men. Although Christianity theoretically imposed chastity on both sexes, the double standard still exists, even if it's not in such an egregious form. The "Christian" society of the antebellum South that the tool and his associates are so fond of had this type of situation going on all the time, where the slavemaster could have his way with any of the slave women if he chose with no negative consequences; after all, if one of the slave women got pregnant, that was just another slave for the plantation. With this backdrop in mind, I propose that the current Doug Phillips is a tool scandal is not an aberration, but the natural outcome of a patriarchal system. In a society where women only have value as baby makers and men have all the power (sexual or otherwise), there are no checks to prevent a man from abusing a young woman in his household. If a patriarch really is the ruler of his household, all other members of said household have no value and no power, especially an unmarried girl from a poor family who works for the patriarch. We've all seen the undertones in patriarchal literature that imply that in a quiverfull future, the rich families will have servants who tend to needs. This scandal is the natural outcomes of the propaganda. Don't be fooled by the hype; patriarchy does not protect women, it only makes them slaves, whether literal or figurative, in their own homes.

ETA Seignural rights - the right of a nobleman to deflower any woman in his household or village that he wanted before her wedding - lasted well into the 18th and 19th century in "Christian" Europe. This is what Mozart's "The Marriage of Figaro" is about. So much for the idea that Christianity will help people to value chastity and faithfulness.

[Abby_B]

Same person. Not sure what that was about, or what the charges were about in the first place, or why they were dropped. A couple of sites I used to read at one point had posted (purported to be, anyway) mug shots.

I did not know that Gibbs Jr. and Gibbs III (who I did know were father and son) had a falling out. Anybody have any links?

Unfortunately, I do not have links to anything about the falling out. I'm not sure if either of them have said anything publicly about it. I got the information from a friend who is a friend and client of Gibbs III. According to my friend, Gibbs III has taken other cases against fundies in the past but they weren't as public and ended up being settled out of court.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I forgot about the creepy father daughter duet. I hope that he hasn't done anything awful to his daughters. I already feel bad enough for his kids, with them knowing that their father is a rapist and a pervert, and how loads of people who used to like them are probably not wanting to be around them anymore, and losing the house....

Didn't one of the sources say that one of the oldest sons walked in on him? It was bad enough to think that they might have walked in on their dad kissing another woman, but knowing what we know now? That is horrifying, did one of them witness their dad raping someone?

[Eponine]

ETA Seignural rights - the right of a nobleman to deflower any woman in his household or village that he wanted before her wedding - lasted well into the 18th and 19th century in "Christian" Europe. This is what Mozart's "The Marriage of Figaro" is about. So much for the idea that Christianity will help people to value chastity and faithfulness.

I completely agree with your statements in this post but for historical accuracy's sake: there is really little evidence that the droit du seigneur ever really existed in Europe, or if it did in some small areas, that it was ever exercised. It certainly was not practiced in the 18th and 19th centuries. The idea of it has been floating around for centuries (there are actual examples in ancient history) and people historically used the idea to either make a point about the gross privileges of the upper classes or as satire about them: this was the case with the original Marriage of Figaro story. Undoubtedly there were some lords that were rapists and took advantage of their power position to sexually exploit their serfs, but this institutionalized, classist, lawful rape doesn't seem to have existed in Europe outside of ancient times.

And I guess since I'm posting anyway: I'm so glad she had the courage and determination to file this lawsuit. That takes ovaries of steel, and I applaud her, and wish the happy couple all the best!

[slickcat79]

Every time I think of Perry & Kim C (Life in a Shoe) now, I think of 2 things:

1. How creepy it is, in hindsight, that Perry took his multiple teenage daughters to work at the Vision Forum warehouse. Kim posted recently that some of them went with him almost every day.

2. How interesting it is that these daughters (and Perry) are heavily into self defense classes (Krav Maga specifically). Coincidence?

This. And I sincerely hope that if Perry were fully aware of Doug's (alleged) behavior, his response would be to remove his daughters from DPIAT's sphere, not encourage them to learn how to defend themselves :|

As far as this case, I believe it will be settled out of court at best. I find the descriptions in the complaint sickeningly plausible, but much of it would be difficult or impossible to adequately prove. I think a win for Lourdes would not be guaranteed in court, especially in TX. If she is offered a reasonable settlement, I hope she takes it. It's not a criminal trial and she has nothing to prove in court.

[FJSharkJump]

Oh that makes more sense. Faith has a lovely voice, it's too bad she has such a creepy, asshole for a father. I'm not much for PDA and don't particularly like people touching me, so maybe I'm reading more into it, but there are a couple times during that video that made me uncomfortable. Not all of it. I think it's normal for parents to be proud of their children and to touch them to give them encouragement, even creepy, asshole parents like Doug. A couple times though, his expression moves it from encouraging parent, to lecherous pedobear, IMO. I hope for her sake that he's just a creepy, asshole where his kids are concerned.

Faith's voice is beautiful! My hope is that one of the long term results of DPIAR's downfall is that all the kids can get out of this knowledge-hating cult and each of them can pursue their talents and interests with further education than the SOTDRT. Faith should have the option to earn a performing arts degree if that's what she wants. She certainly has the talent for it.

And yeah. There are reassuring pats or squeezes for a nervous kid, to show your support and remind them they are not alone. I've got a kid who loves to perform but gets a touch of the nerves, too. Totally been there. And I love her so much and I think she is so amazing, and sometimes I just want to squeeze her so tight as if I could bottle her up and keep her forever. You know what I mean? But that's about me. That's a parent's adoration for her kid, which by its very nature is kind of irrational. If I want to show my child I love and support her, I have to temper those hold-her-so-tight-my-little-girl-forever-and-ever instincts with enough rationality to give her the space she needs to grow in confidence and ability.

That touchy-feely display was not about Faith and what she needs. It was all about Doug and what he wants. And even if it was not indicative of any further personal-boundary-crossing, law-violating behavior by a father towards his daughter, it was still gross and disturbing.

ETA: Just want to make sure it's clear that I am in agreement with you, Curious. :lol: Pretty much just -ing your comment. My reaction to that performance is a little intense so in re-reading my post, I thought it might have come across like I don't think you were offended enough or something.

Seriously, there's probably a reason I forgot about that video. My mind did the work of :brain-bleach: for me. I hope it happens again. :embarrassed:

[Howl]

I'm so curious to know where James Leininger is in all of this. He is an extremely wealthy and powerful dentist from San Antonio, politically connected and is very active in funding conservative causes. My impression is that he was the $$ behind Vision Forum and one of the posts on Jens Jems noted that Leininger donated two buildings to VF. His daughter (Tracy Leininger Craven) wrote Alone but Not Alone and the film was based on this book. Tracy's sister Barbara appears in the film as does another Leininger daughter. My understanding is that LT was in this film and that her family knows the Leiningers.

Doug Phillips officiated at the wedding of Tracy and her husband, David Craven, who was a Vision Forum intern. Tracy was a stay-at-home-daughter until she got married, if that tells you anything about the Leininger's family dynamics.

I had a sense that VF imploded when Leininger pulled the plug, based on nothing but idle speculation. Or as Hetty said on NCIS: Los Angeles last night: "I'm not the puppet master; I cut the puppet's strings." Leininger may have played that role.

[tropaka]

I'm so curious to know where James Leininger is in all of this. He is an extremely wealthy and powerful dentist from San Antonio, politically connected and is very active in funding conservative causes. My impression is that he was the $$ behind Vision Forum and one of the posts on Jens Jems noted that Leininger donated two buildings to VF. His daughter (Tracy Leininger Craven) wrote Alone but Not Alone and the film was based on this book. Tracy's sister Barbara appears in the film as well and another Leininger daughter as well. My understanding is that LT was in this film and that her family knows the Leiningers.

Doug Phillips officiated at the wedding of Tracy and her husband, David Craven, who was a Vision Forum intern. Tracy was a stay-at-home-daughter until she got married, if that tells you anything about the Leininger's family dynamics.

I had a sense that VF imploded when Leininger pulled the plug, based on nothing but idle speculation. Or as Hetty said on NCIS: Los Angeles last night: "I'm not the puppet master; I cut the puppet's strings." Leininger may have played that role.

IIRC Leininger owned the house where the Phillips family was living before the shit hit the fan.

[tropaka]

I'm so curious to know where James Leininger is in all of this. He is an extremely wealthy and powerful dentist from San Antonio, politically connected and is very active in funding conservative causes. My impression is that he was the $$ behind Vision Forum and one of the posts on Jens Jems noted that Leininger donated two buildings to VF. His daughter (Tracy Leininger Craven) wrote Alone but Not Alone and the film was based on this book. Tracy's sister Barbara appears in the film as well and another Leininger daughter as well. My understanding is that LT was in this film and that her family knows the Leiningers.

Doug Phillips officiated at the wedding of Tracy and her husband, David Craven, who was a Vision Forum intern. Tracy was a stay-at-home-daughter until she got married, if that tells you anything about the Leininger's family dynamics.

I had a sense that VF imploded when Leininger pulled the plug, based on nothing but idle speculation. Or as Hetty said on NCIS: Los Angeles last night: "I'm not the puppet master; I cut the puppet's strings." Leininger may have played that role.

IIRC Leininger owned the house where the Phillips family was living before the shit hit the fan.

[Curious]

Faith's voice is beautiful! My hope is that one of the long term results of DPIAR's downfall is that all the kids can get out of this knowledge-hating cult and each of them can pursue their talents and interests with further education than the SOTDRT. Faith should have the option to earn a performing arts degree if that's what she wants. She certainly has the talent for it.

And yeah. There are reassuring pats or squeezes for a nervous kid, to show your support and remind them they are not alone. I've got a kid who loves to perform but gets a touch of the nerves, too. Totally been there. And I love her so much and I think she is so amazing, and sometimes I just want to squeeze her so tight as if I could bottle her up and keep her forever. You know what I mean? But that's about me. That's a parent's adoration for her kid, which by its very nature is kind of irrational. If I want to show my child I love and support her, I have to temper those hold-her-so-tight-my-little-girl-forever-and-ever instincts with enough rationality to give her the space she needs to grow in confidence and ability.

That touchy-feely display was not about Faith and what she needs. It was all about Doug and what he wants. And even if it was not indicative of any further personal-boundary-crossing, law-violating behavior by a father towards his daughter, it was still gross and disturbing.

ETA: Just want to make sure it's clear that I am in agreement with you, Curious. :lol: Pretty much just -ing your comment. My reaction to that performance is a little intense so in re-reading my post, I thought it might have come across like I don't think you were offended enough or something.

Seriously, there's probably a reason I forgot about that video. My mind did the work of :brain-bleach: for me. I hope it happens again. :embarrassed:

I hope I cut the quotes right here, I'm in an epic battle to save my blueberry muffin from 4.5 month old Chihuahua puppy while I try to type this and she's gaining ground every time I take my hand off her to type a bit more ;)

I got that you were agreeing. I agree that the performance was all about Doug. It was clear from his intro that it was really about him and not about Faith, IMO. I wonder if she has had formal training.

One thing I meant to mention in my other post that I was going to say right away and then by the end of the video I'd completely forgotten because it was overshadowed by the creepy, asshole factor, Doug (or Dough in my typing world lol) is *really* short. I knew he was short, but in that video you can really tell how short he actually is.

[Curious]

IIRC Leininger owned the house where the Phillips family was living before the shit hit the fan.

I fully admit that I lost interest in the day to day speculation of the Dough (fuck it, I'm tired of correcting myself every time I type his name) mess soon after it broke, so I'm playing catch up now that there is more concrete information. I've seen people mention that Dough (lol it's not even like I am a baker or something and type out the word dough a lot in my daily life...wtf fingers) had to move out of his house. What's the deal with that? Does anyone have the general thread where that was discussed or can give a synopsis so I don't have to read 6 threads trying to find it?

TIA!

[Palimpsest]

IIRC Leininger owned the house where the Phillips family was living before the shit hit the fan.

There was some very idle speculation up thread about whether Leininger - or other big donor(s) - might be really pissed off with Doug and providing the money behind the retaining of Gill III.

[Maxwell]

I fully admit that I lost interest in the day to day speculation of the Dough (fuck it, I'm tired of correcting myself every time I type his name) mess soon after it broke, so I'm playing catch up now that there is more concrete information. I've seen people mention that Dough (lol it's not even like I am a baker or something and type out the word dough a lot in my daily life...wtf fingers) had to move out of his house. What's the deal with that? Does anyone have the general thread where that was discussed or can give a synopsis so I don't have to read 6 threads trying to find it?

TIA!

Can't give you the thread but the house was donated to Vision Forum Ministries by Leininger. When Doug stepped down he was give 60 days (if think) to get out. That happened some time in the Dec. 31 - Jan. 15 time frame, I don't remember exactly.

They packed up and moved to some new digs out of town. Apparently it's a pretty nice place as well.