Lourdes and Nolan marry - Lawsuit against DPIAT/R filed

[FJismyheadship]

The description of the kitchen scene is so degrading. That alone would have been the one to finally just push me over the edge.

Yes! I cant imagine not telling someone about that. But I was raised that nobody has a right to touch without consent, and to run if you feel uncomfortable.

Is it possible he tried this with his daughters?

[lemonhead]

Local (San Antonio) news has picked it up: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/ ... 405064.php

Nothing new, but it's encouraging to see the news start to spread via more legitimate or mainstream channels.

Edit: Houston Chronicle has it, too: http://www.chron.com/news/local/article ... cmpid=hpbn

[meda]

I want some google-fu much better than mine in on this and some real lawyers weighing in. Please.

I've also been regarding Gibbs with suspicion for the reasons Apple1 stated. I googled him when he came up in the Gothard Misconduct thread and all I could come up with was cases where he defended churches. And the Shiavo case. His law firm (but his younger brother) was also involved in the Tina Anderson case. On the side of the church.

Can people with better skills than mine find any cases where he acted for the Plaintiff? Essentially as the prosecutor not the defense?

Is it possible that he is taking this case because he is genuinely angered by the situation? Is he taking it pro bono? Why would he take the case unless he thought he could win it? I find it impossible to believe that any attorney would take a high profile case like this looks like it may become and (totally unethically) intentionally throw it. That would be so risky and, frankly, professionally idiotic.

Thoughts and comments?

I think the money men behind VF are pissed and want to bury Doug and protect what's left of the brand. Jim Leininger or one of the other big doners may have thrown some money at this. I also think Nolan has some connections.

[WonderingInWA]

Yes! I cant imagine not telling someone about that. But I was raised that nobody has a right to touch without consent, and to run if you feel uncomfortable.

Is it possible he tried this with his daughters?

I think the kitchen scene was near the end of 2012, so would have been one of the last incidents before she broke with her story in January 2013. I only read the complaint document once through and won't go there again, but that's what sticks in my mind. So, I think that was probably just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I would hope DPIAT would never have hurt his own daughters. I think in some weird way he chose to prey on someone else's daughter so he could preserve his own. He may very well have never thought of Hero as someone's daughter. Sexual predators do that -- they compartmentalize their victims into whatever category is most useful to them. Hero was a sexual object for him and hopefully his own daughters never were.

[SamuraiKatz]

Word.

This goes a million times over for Voddie Baucham, Geoff Botkin, Scott Brown, Joe Morecraft, R.C. Sproul, Jr., and Kevin Swanson, all of whom are alleged men of God and all of whom were perfectly happy to accept Doug Phillips'/VF's money & PR on behalf of their so-called ministries.

What about James Leninger? He bankrolled Doug and Vision Forum. He should be stepping up and taking some responsibility too.

[Palimpsest]

I think the money men behind VF are pissed and want to bury Doug and protect what's left of the brand. Jim Leininger or one of the other big doners may have thrown some money at this. I also think Nolan has some connections.

Thanks, Meda. Good theory. I find it interesting that VFM (which must include the Board and Scott Brown) are named as co-defendants though. Are the big money donors going to take Scott down along with Doug?

[meda]

Thanks, Meda. Good theory. I find it interesting that VFM (which must include the Board and Scott Brown) are named as co-defendants though. Are the big money donors going to take Scott down along with Doug?

I don't practice in Texas, so this may be a quirk of drafting a civil complaint in Texas that I am unfamiliar with....but I found it telling that the suit is against Doug Phillips, an individual; Vision Forum Inc, a for profit company with no assets; and VF Ministries, a not for profit company. None of the board members of VFM are named as individual defendants, which to me indicates that Gibbs is not going after any of the personal assets of board members, or even trying to shame them. Only the Tool is named, plus a defunct company and a "ministry" with few remaining assets. Hero and who ever else is behind this seems to only be gunning for Doug.

[thoughtful]

Look what Spanky twatted just yesterday: "If we don't love perverts enough to let them hate us for lovingly telling them they hate God then we hate them and are lukewarm to Him."

:wtf:

Sounds like a tongue twister.

[SamuraiKatz]

:wtf:

Sounds like a tongue twister.

I think Spanky consumed a large quantity of home brew before firing up the twitter.

[hoipolloi]

What about James Leninger? He bankrolled Doug and Vision Forum. He should be stepping up and taking some responsibility too.

Oh, James Leininger bears responsibility but the focus of my ire above is the pastoral crowd.

Maybe I should also add James McDonald & Marcus Serven to that list - both of them manly men of the cloth & both of them erstwhile members of the Doug Phillips-VF fan club, not to mention making $$ out it all.

[WonderingInWA]

:wtf:

Sounds like a tongue twister.

Well spun, Spanx! Deciphering your poetry will stop a few, but honestly, nobody cares what you think and most people will just move on over it.

[Marian the Librarian]

Oh, James Leininger bears responsibility but the focus of my ire above is the pastoral crowd.

Maybe I should also add James McDonald & Marcus Serven to that list - both of them manly men of the cloth & both of them erstwhile members of the Doug Phillips-VF fan club, not to mention making $$ out it all.

And let us not forget Geoff Botkin and family, who have also been financially affiliated with Vision Forum for many years. I wonder what they knew, and when?

[Curious]

:wtf:

Sounds like a tongue twister.

I have read that tweet about 10 times now and it still doesn't make a lick of sense to me. At least it seems like it's not just me. right?

[SamuraiKatz]

Oh, James Leininger bears responsibility but the focus of my ire above is the pastoral crowd.

Maybe I should also add James McDonald & Marcus Serven to that list - both of them manly men of the cloth & both of them erstwhile members of the Doug Phillips-VF fan club, not to mention making $$ out it all.

I think every last one of them should be called to account. They've all played a part in this hyper-patriarchal dominionist mess. Who knows how much evil they've kept out of the public eye?

[SamuraiKatz]

I have read that tweet about 10 times now and it still doesn't make a lick of sense to me. At least it seems like it's not just me. right?

Sounds like drunken blather to me.

[Palimpsest]

That sounds right. Except by naming VFM and involving the board's dilly dallying about keeping DP on at VFM after the situation was disclosed to them would involve them in the case. Giving the Board incentive to put pressure on the Doug to settle? Do we have any attorneys practicing in TX who could comment on the "quirk" as normal practice?

[hoipolloi]

And let us not forget Geoff Botkin and family, who have also been financially affiliated with Vision Forum for many years. I wonder what they knew, and when?

Oh, absolutely. The list of "laity" and apologists who bear responsibility is at least as long as the list of so-called men of God:

Geoff Botkin

Bradrick!

Matt & Jennie Chancey

Nathaniel Darnell

Carmon Friedrich

James Leininger

Bill Potter [gotta say, though, that he seems kind of feckless compared to the others on this list]

James Zes

Just for starters - there's lots more. Maybe there should be a Wall of Shame for all these people.

[Aggie2145]

I don't practice in Texas, so this may be a quirk of drafting a civil complaint in Texas that I am unfamiliar with....but I found it telling that the suit is against Doug Phillips, an individual; Vision Forum Inc, a for profit company with no assets; and VF Ministries, a not for profit company. None of the board members of VFM are named as individual defendants, which to me indicates that Gibbs is not going after any of the personal assets of board members, or even trying to shame them. Only the Tool is named, plus a defunct company and a "ministry" with few remaining assets. Hero and who ever else is behind this seems to only be gunning for Doug.

VF, Inc. and VFM very likely had occurrence insurance policies in effect every year of the abuse. The entities are brought into the suit for two reasons: to attach to any assets that might still exist and to trigger the applicable insurance policies. Going after the other board members would trigger the same policies without the added burden of proving actual knowledge or conscious indifference of each board member. Additionally, Texas homestead laws are very favorable....the board members are very likely judgment proof.

[fundiefan]

I don't practice in Texas, so this may be a quirk of drafting a civil complaint in Texas that I am unfamiliar with....but I found it telling that the suit is against Doug Phillips, an individual; Vision Forum Inc, a for profit company with no assets; and VF Ministries, a not for profit company. None of the board members of VFM are named as individual defendants, which to me indicates that Gibbs is not going after any of the personal assets of board members, or even trying to shame them. Only the Tool is named, plus a defunct company and a "ministry" with few remaining assets. Hero and who ever else is behind this seems to only be gunning for Doug.

I think that is evidence that she isn't out to win big or bring everyone down with her (unlike the Tool who will take down anyone within his reach). This is personal for her. She wants Doug to pay for what he did to her. She wants his balls nailed to the wall. He is the one who lied to her and manipulated her and stole years of her life.

I know she could go after others involved and who knew and covered up and on and on. But, I think the fact that she isn't is telling. This is personal and about her, not about money. Yes, she is asking for monetary damages, but that's par for the course.

I commend that.

[Want More Babies]

No, that info is incorrect.

Gibbs was NOT Schaap's attorney.

Gibbs was retained by First Baptist Church Hammond, to potentially protect the church from liability for Schaap's wrongdoing. I'm fairly convinced that Gibbs' advice to FBCH was to hang Schaap out to dry so as to protect itself. Schaap's attorney was Paul Stracci (as I understand it, an expensive Chicago-area attorney, with nor particular history in church/clergy/religious matters).

ETA The Chucklestravels blog posted wrong information, and the incorrectness of that info is easy to verify. Chuckles should have published a retraction.

Thank you for clearing that up!!

[Flyinthesoup]

To Hero, I applaud your remarkable courage :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: If there are any other Doug Phillips victims out there, I hope they can follow your brave footsteps.

Many, many, happy Congratulations on your marriage. May you have a beautiful life together.

A thought regarding Beall has crossed my mind, especially after reading the Vision Forum letter just posted. If what is in there, is what Doug told Beall, she may not have had a clue to some of the things coming out in this document, or were previously mentioned, such as 'her death'. If Beall is reading this information for the first time, I cannot imagine how much greater the betrayal must feel. I am going to cut her some slack here, as I just don't know what stories she has been told and what information she has been privy to. Not only that, but I suspect her life must be a living hell right now. She is in a horrible position, no matter what way you look at it. As was mentioned earlier, she may well not have written that letter, or she may have, but it might have been forced upon her. I am at a loss of words for the grief I feel for those children!

I have been following this since last fall. Could someone clue me in, please, did Peter and family actually move to WA state, or did they go there to visit his family? I never read that it was a move, but perhaps I missed that detail.

[SamuraiKatz]

Oh, absolutely. The list of "laity" and apologists who bear responsibility is at least as long as the list of so-called men of God:

Geoff Botkin

Bradrick!

Matt & Jennie Chancey

Nathaniel Darnell

Carmon Friedrich

James Leininger

Bill Potter [gotta say, though, that he seems kind of feckless compared to the others on this list]

James Zes

Just for starters - there's lots more. Maybe there should be a Wall of Shame for all these people.

Douglas Wilson....I hate knowing my favorite Trading Spaces interior decorator shares a the same name as this clown.

[hoipolloi]

Douglas Wilson....I hate knowing my favorite Trading Spaces interior decorator shares a the same name as this clown.

Add him to the men o' Gawd list.

[Maxwell]

I have read that tweet about 10 times now and it still doesn't make a lick of sense to me. At least it seems like it's not just me. right?

OK, I'll give it a go.

If we love some one, we should confront them even if that means enduring their hatred of us for confronting them. If we don't confront them for their sins, it's really saying, "I don't care about you or your soul... you can go to hell, it's OK by me". Since God calls Christians to confront a fellow Christian who is living in sin in an effort to restore him(or her) to the faith, if we fail to do so, we are not only not caring for the one in sin but ignoring God.

As I pointed out earlier though, Jr should be well acquainted with 1 Corinthians 5 -- Under the heading of Immorality Must Be Judged

1 Corinthians 5:9-13

Immorality Must Be Judged

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.â€[d]

Seems to me that Doug was confronted privately... then by the gang of 5... then exposed before the Church... he is STILL unrepentant and as such, Jr. is disobeying scripture by continuing to associate with him.

[meda]

VF, Inc. and VFM very likely had occurrence insurance policies in effect every year of the abuse. The entities are brought into the suit for two reasons: to attach to any assets that might still exist and to trigger the applicable insurance policies. Going after the other board members would trigger the same policies without the added burden of proving actual knowledge or conscious indifference of each board member. Additionally, Texas homestead laws are very favorable....the board members are very likely judgment proof.

Thank you, I assumed it would be easier to get an insurance payout rather than to try and get a judgement against and then attach the assets of individual board members. I guess that's why I saw it as a quirk, in my part of the world, members of non profit boards are more vulnerable, so it is a common tactic to name them as individual defendants in the hope that they will be more willing to authorize the non profit to offer a settlement rather than risk a trial.