The Continuing Fall of VF and Doug Phillips is a tool-Part 4

[Palimpsest]

Transalation==Doug (is a Tool) was really having an affair with a MAN. (OOOOHHHHHHHH :lol: ). That MAN was about to come screaming out of the closet [and thereby dragging Doug (is a Tool) along with him]. Rather than be exposed :D like that, Doug (is a Tool) conveniently admitted to KNOWING :doh: a woman who was NOT his wife. Knowing in a non biblical (yet biblical) way, ya know? The poster is intimating that the MAN is still wanting to come out of the closet but is getting PAID not to. Doug (is a Tool) is practicing The best lies have an element of truth in it.

Many thanks! The roundabout verbiage was frying my remaining braincells.

Anyone want to bet on how long it is going to take TW to blow his top and insist that Doug is straight!

:popcorn2:

[DomWackTroll]

Jen is insane! Now she's saying that she thinks the whole Cassandra thing is a "cover up" for something else, perhaps Doug's abuse of a male. Well shit, so do I, but that's why I haven't been blogging that it's real for weeks on end!

[thoughtful]

Many thanks! The roundabout verbiage was frying my remaining braincells.

The rest of it:

Uncovering such story, if it happens to be like this, would help to lift the lid and allow this person, first of all to go through well-deserved public hell for the collaboration in joint family & friends deceipt. But afterwards, if encouraged and supported, he could become a prominent arrow to pull other like-natured out of the homophobic quivers into another world, where “not knowing each other in the biblical sense†doesn’t harm themselves and others that much.

was even more round-about, but sounded to me like "this person needs to be punished for having an affair, but then, he could show other gay guys that it's OK to be gay, as long as they don't act on it (because that's icky, and I want credit for loving the sinner and hating the sin)."

[formergothardite]

These people need to learn to get the point. I am glad someone translated that because I had no idea what they were going on about.

[Palimpsest]

The rest of it:

was even more round-about, but sounded to me like "this person needs to be punished for having an affair, but then, he could show other gay guys that it's OK to be gay, as long as they don't act on it (because that's icky, and I want credit for loving the sinner and hating the sin)."

Thanks. Those people are nuttier than the average fruitcake. I'm still trying to parse this one: "he could become a prominent arrow to pull other like-natured out of the homophobic quivers into another world"

Perhaps he/she means homosexual not homophobic quivers?

JemsGems keeps freezing on me and I can't find this comment or Jen's response. Or TW has already deleted them. I also need to do some work! If anyone can do a c & p here I'd be very grateful. TIA.

I really need to do some work!

[Soulhuntress]

Yes, BCA is tiny. I should have been clearer that I was just going for a very rough estimate. I think BCA consisted of about 30 families (each filling quivers with multiple children) at most. It is really hard to tell because of the unconfirmed rumors that 6 or 8 (or perhaps even 12!) families left last February. The present BCA members aren't talking openly.

Tiny indeed. And it seems to me Jen and Mark are playing their own issues out within the drama that is Dougie's probable Coming Out Party......

[DomWackTroll]

Tiny indeed. And it seems to me Jen and Mark are playing their own issues out within the drama that is Dougie's probable Coming Out Party......

Did I just say this scandal was getting boring? Maybe not so much. :lol:

[Jezebel]

Tiny indeed. And it seems to me Jen and Mark are playing their own issues out within the drama that is Dougie's probable Coming Out Party......

LOL. This is what's kept me entertained, once the initial news and speculation about Dougie's hijinks started to get dull. Jen and "TW Eston" are both truly awful people, with whole shelves of issues, and watching them parade them about for all to see is gruesomely fascinating. Keep at it, you crazy kids! If I had any belief in a deity that cared about such trivialities, I'd be thanking it for providing such an awesome freak show.

[Bookworm]

Many thanks! The roundabout verbiage was frying my remaining braincells.

Anyone want to bet on how long it is going to take TW to blow his top and insist that Doug is straight!

:popcorn2:

Well, we do know Hero's brother also worked as a nanny for The Tool.

Seconding Palimpsest's request for copy and paste of pertinent comments on Jen's Enquirer from hardy souls who can stand wading through the amount of words over there.

[GodHatesFigs]

Well, we do know Hero's brother also worked as a nanny for The Tool.

Seconding Palimpsest's request for copy and paste of pertinent comments on Jen's Enquirer from hardy souls who can stand wading through the amount of words over there.

Here is the requested cut/paste

"Jen Says:

December 18, 2013 at 11:45 am

lohmo, I really have no idea if that is the case or not, but I truly believe that “Cassandra†is just a cover story.

Donna Says:

December 18, 2013 at 1:57 pm

It makes sense that Cassandra would be a cover story. They don’t want to destroy their own dynasty ($$$), but DP messed it all up for them (perhaps multiple infidelities, perhaps tax fraud, perhaps embezzlement, and who knows what all), so leaking just a *little* infidelity and feigned repentance gives them a reason to make DP disappear from his followers’ view, while keeping at least a portion of the followers (remember when it first broke and many of his fans were comparing him to David and wanted to carry on as if nothing bad had happened?), and giving them time to quietly re-work the plan from the inside.

Is that close?

Nony Says:

December 18, 2013 at 4:24 pm

Okay…this is getting ABSURD. I get that it’s hard to run an effective anti-DP blog when there’s a lack of compelling updates rolling into the factory, but this is ridiculous.

Do you really think that “Cassandra’s†father would feel warmly to his daughter being accused of fornication–accomplice to adultery–just to protect DP? You think her brother would go along with this? Jen, you’ve been in this industry long enough to know that this level of scandal can ruin the reputation of an entire family. let alone future marital prospects.

You also realize that this level of speculation in the public domain and some of the unfounded claims against DP do now qualify for libel? I’m sure DP is guilty of all sort of interesting sins, but as it is, you have no tangible proof and this blog is posting all sorts of contradictory nonsense from engagement promises to possibilities of financial fraud, and the weepy victimization of a woman who is now being poised as the Katie Holmes of his secretly gay gallivanting life??

The idea of Doug Phillips being gay wouldn’t come as a shock to even half of his critics, but it does seem to go against several commenter’s tales of needing to keep their young daughters out of his line of site. So which is it now? Which direction are you running with? DP the pedophile? DP the homosexual train wreck? At this point DP would need to have sex with barn animals or space aliens to keep your readers wide eyed.

So please, everyone. Stop speculating. If you have hard evidence, and it needs to be posted to protect the souls of millions or at least keep us interested for the next five minutes, do so. But if you don’t have any of that “pesky evidence†stuff, buy yourself a copy of 50 Shades of Grey. Read it seven times and bathe in a river…

I’d proofread this comment, but at this point I’d be giving my own writing more attention than those who blog for this site.

Jen Says:

December 18, 2013 at 4:29 pm

Nony, I agree with you that anything outside of proof is speculation. What we report in our articles is factual, based upon multiple witnesses.

I also agree that speculation outside of that is not helpful. Do I believe this is merely a cover story? Yes, I do. Do I know what is being covered up? Not at this time.

The only direction we are going here is where the EVIDENCE leads us. The evidence is posted in the articles.

T.W. Eston Says:

December 18, 2013 at 4:43 pm

Nony, I agree and I’ve said so previously here and here. With over 850 comments in this thread it’s pretty much impossible for us to keep up on every comment. But if need be I will go back and start deleting comments of that nature. So please, no more Doug Phillips may be gay speculating here. Keep such opinions to yourselves.

Donna Says:

December 18, 2013 at 4:46 pm

*LIKE*"

[twin2]

At this point in time, I don't think either Jen or this Easton guy even know their heads from their assholes, never less anything else about this "cover up" theory.

[GodHatesFigs]

At this point in time, I don't think either Jen or this Easton guy even know their heads from their assholes, never less anything else about this "cover up" theory.

I'm inclined to agree. The blog should be called "pay attention to meeeee!"

[Cleopatra7]

For what it's worth, it wouldn't surprise me if a young man was also a victim of the tool in addition to Hero; Warren Jeffs sexually abused boys and girls. I think that when 2014 begins, and all arms of VF have completely folded, the real truth about Doug Phillips is a tool will start coming out, not from Jen Epstein's online slam book, from from the real authorities.

[debrand]

Was Nonny okay with the speculation about Doug's affair before someone suggested that the object of his affection was a he?

[Mary C Doates]

LOL. This is what's kept me entertained, once the initial news and speculation about Dougie's hijinks started to get dull. Jen and "TW Eston" are both truly awful people, with whole shelves of issues, and watching them parade them about for all to see is gruesomely fascinating. Keep at it, you crazy kids! If I had any belief in a deity that cared about such trivialities, I'd be thanking it for providing such an awesome freak show.

Oh, I totally agree. Jen and "Eston" keep insisting that they are revealing all of this information to educate Doug (Phillips who is a tool)'s victims and to encourage his "true repentance", but they are completely caught up in their personal vendettas towards him. They seem willing to believe pretty much anything about the Dougster as long as it confirms their (exceedingly low) opinions of him and advances their story. Jen and "Eston" agree with posters one minute, then try back-tracking when another poster demands proof or calls them out, as more people are beginning to do. They certainly aren't helping their credibility at this point.

Doug Phillips is still a tool, though.

[marmalade]

Love how Eston told the flock to stop speculating on Dougie the Tool being gay, but tacitly allowing all the other types of speculation that have run rampant on JG for weeks.

Whoever called that gets a gold star.

[hoipolloi]

Sorry to have done the post-and-run earlier but thanks, GodHatesFigs, for posting the whole exchange.

Oh dear. Guess a bit more has been added. Jen wants to make it perfectly clear that she & Eston only have Doug's best interests at heart:

Jen Says:

December 18, 2013 at 6:14 pm

Slander must also be done in malice. I can guarantee you that neither TW nor I have any malice toward Doug. Rather, we would love to see him repent and turn his heart toward the Lord. However, since we do not see those things happening, we will continue to report what needs to be reported.

It would be FAR better for Doug if he were to come clean himself. Far better.

Hmmm....So the following comments on Hero fall under the rubric of "needs to be reported"?

Jen Says:

December 18, 2013 at 6:12 pm

Nony...

This is not a court of law, nor do I pretend it is. However, I consider my purpose here to currently be that of one reporting when I hear the same facts from multiple sources who each contact me individually. When we post these articles, while we are very careful to present the material as factually accurate as possible, the parts that I did not personally witness are always open to refutation. However, what ends up happening is that we receive more private contact after each article verifying that what we have reported is indeed true, as far as the parts they know. This is very much a matter of piecing together many little details, as well as knowing Doug Phillips well enough to know what makes him tick.

Regarding the ring, Cassandra is wearing the promise ring her father gave her, but it is no longer on her left ring finger. A former VF intern has stated that Doug promised to marry her. It is possible that Doug gave her the ring, but I do not know for sure. I do know that Cassandra was an extremely eligible young lady who traveled extensively and should have been well sought after during all those years. We know that she greatly desired to marry and have many children. Why would an eligible young lady who wanted to marry wear a ring simply to keep the men away in a world of courtship only? The VF world is a small world. Every young man who was also eligible knew that she was not married or engaged, and also knew that he would have to go through Doug Phillips to get to her.

Re: bolded - :orly:

[Mompom]

:popcorn2: :popcorn2: I am just waiting with excitement for the lawsuit DP will serve Jen with. :lol:

[RosyDaisy]

Fuck all of this. This is beginning to sound more and more like words coming from an attention seeker. If I were a gambler, I would bet all my money that Jen and her cohort T.W. are just pulling theories out of their asses based on internet gossip, using Doug the Crazy Ass Tool's confession, resignation, and the closing of VF for their own attention seeking purposes and as a bonus sticking it to Doug and others that wouldn't let Jen play in their sandbox.

[apple1]

(Jen)

...Regarding the ring, Cassandra is wearing the promise ring her father gave her, but it is no longer on her left ring finger. A former VF intern has stated that Doug promised to marry her. It is possible that Doug gave her the ring, but I do not know for sure...

Double-speak and self-contradiction much?

Not that it matters, but it was one or the other - likely not both Daddy and Doug.

[nokidsmom]

Fuck all of this. This is beginning to sound more and more like words coming from an attention seeker. If I were a gambler, I would bet all my money that Jen and her cohort T.W. are just pulling theories out of their asses based on internet gossip, using Doug the Crazy Ass Tool's confession, resignation, and the closing of VF for their own attention seeking purposes and as a bonus sticking it to Doug and others that wouldn't let Jen play in their sandbox.

At this point, this is exactly what I think.

[Palimpsest]

Many thanks GodHatesFigs and HoiPolloi for bringing over the debates.

I'm finding Nony's way with words quite hilarious. I think that she just went over the top on frustration at the "it is all a cover-up" comment after Jen and TW outed Hero and Mrs R. The possibility that Doug might be gay doesn't seem to bother her or surprise her.

I've brought a few more exchanges among Nony, Jen and TW over. To save space I've snipped out the comments from leg-humpers defending Jen and attacking Nony. My bolding.

Nony Says:

December 18, 2013 at 5:00 pm

Jen-

I know you indirectly. So, whether or not you can believe this, I’d like to root for you. Just a little. Mainly because, if stranded on an uncharted isle, you’d be more fun that Doug Phillips. You are making the fall of DP “fun†if not misleadingly salacious. All that aside:

<>

Hearsay is not admissible in court. You’d need to have multiple witness who are willing to reveal their identities and have stories that perfectly mirror each other in order to use their testimonies as evidence. As it is, the contradictory information in this blog reveals very little that anyone could consider evidence. This is why people are speculating. People don’t need to speculate when their are clear concise facts. You cannot tell your readers to “trust me because I spoke to a lot of people who are in the know!†because (1) they don’t trust you or shouldn’t because there’s no sources quoted (2) it’s still hearsay.

The only clear evidence anyone has at this time is that a man–whose understanding of ecclesiastical practice and blatant worship of an era when there was no running water or penicillin should have already damned him to the lowest circle of silence–is now claiming to have had an affair, and has sufficiently resigned. His business is closing. His close circle of friends are distancing themselves from him and producing a few veiled or spurned facebook rants.

An angry and unconfirmed neighbor on SpiritualSoundingBoard claiming that Doug Phillips’ behavior was enough to lower their property value is no more evidence than Cassandra’s “engagement ringâ€.

The facts are very slim and I suspect that those involved are going to keep it this way for a very long time.

Jen Says:

December 18, 2013 at 6:14 pm

Slander must also be done in malice. I can guarantee you that neither TW nor I have any malice toward Doug. Rather, we would love to see him repent and turn his heart toward the Lord. However, since we do not see those things happening, we will continue to report what needs to be reported.

It would be FAR better for Doug if he were to come clean himself. Far better.

Nony Says:

December 18, 2013 at 6:05 pm

Jackie-

That is incorrect. First of all, this is a potential libel case, not slander. Secondly, these days you can make a libel case over a bad yelp review if it can be proved that false information has been spread that may damage a person’s business or livelihood.

Allowing for speculation regarding underage sex, victimization, homosexuality in a community that reviles such, or the purposeful indulgence of information that could again, damage a business or reputation/livelihood can result in a libel case. I doubt, at this moment, DP even has the time to deal with such. But in the interests of being careful, it wouldn’t hurt to ensure that any information that has not been thoroughly investigated and cannot be backed up by clear evidence in a court of law, be discouraged and or wiped from this blog, a blog which is currently making itself the target of both hilarity and criticism.

Jen Says: This one was posted before.

December 18, 2013 at 6:12 pm

Nony, I am glad you obviously have a great sense of humor regarding Doug’s “desert island challenge.â€

This is not a court of law, nor do I pretend it is. However, I consider my purpose here to currently be that of one reporting when I hear the same facts from multiple sources who each contact me individually. When we post these articles, while we are very careful to present the material as factually accurate as possible, the parts that I did not personally witness are always open to refutation. However, what ends up happening is that we receive more private contact after each article verifying that what we have reported is indeed true, as far as the parts they know. This is very much a matter of piecing together many little details, as well as knowing Doug Phillips well enough to know what makes him tick.

As far as revealing my sources, it ain’t gonna happen!

Regarding the ring, Cassandra is wearing the promise ring her father gave her, but it is no longer on her left ring finger. A former VF intern has stated that Doug promised to marry her. It is possible that Doug gave her the ring, but I do not know for sure. I do know that Cassandra was an extremely eligible young lady who traveled extensively and should have been well sought after during all those years. We know that she greatly desired to marry and have many children. Why would an eligible young lady who wanted to marry wear a ring simply to keep the men away in a world of courtship only? The VF world is a small world. Every young man who was also eligible knew that she was not married or engaged, and also knew that he would have to go through Doug Phillips to get to her.

Nony Says:

December 18, 2013 at 8:18 pm

Doug Phillips is not a household name. At best, he could be classified as a limited purpose public figure. Even in this case, the motive of malice and/or impetuous journalism would not be difficult to tie into his case as Jen’s blog began as a personal account of her experiences with Doug Phillips. Moreover, though the blog is not AP “yay!†in either style or content, it’s incautious direction and speculations make it an easy target.

Again, I really do doubt that DP considers the statements made on JensGems to be of huge concern for this time. His situation, is perhaps, more dire…dire as in which breeches and waistcoat look best with fiscal death.

But it’s very difficult to glean any sort of Christian concern for Doug Phillips, his alleged mistress, or his family, based on the content of this blog. Debates as to DP’s salvation, choice of sexual partners, possible criminal intentions, pregnancies, and (my personal favorite) speculative accounts and hearsay regarding an older woman and her affinity for young men don’t portray the compassionate concern of the little flock.

It’s indulgent.

Doug Phillips is pretty much over. He’s not a naturally humble sort, so I doubt he will ever repent of anything he has done. But even if he were to get struck with a mighty blast of introspection, and look back into his past, and grieve over his hypocrisies and bad film-making, I can almost guarantee you there’s one thing he will never repent of…

…there is one thing that will have him chuckling even late at night, even within the flimsy walls of his future Tobagan yurt…and that is what he did to you, Jen. He will own it and love it and laugh about it until the day his irritating little soul meets the dust. Because the more you keep blogging about him, the more he continues to win on this account. It’s the reason why people like Kathryn Joyce portray you as some unhinged female burning with eternal retaliation. There is a fight going on out there concerning Doug Phillips, but it’s far beyond what happened to you. And it really should be written about without your “youness†getting involved. You need space from this. Maybe some herbal tea. It’s healthier this way.

In the meantime, the rest of us need to figure out what the flip we are supposed to do without DP’s fancy dress parties.

And TW clamps down. If anyone criticises him they are in league with Doug Phillips. TW really is a right Pill!

T.W. Eston Says:

December 19, 2013 at 8:43 am

Nony, I appreciated at least one element of your previous comment. I don’t appreciate this one, nor do I believe “I’d like to root for you.†Your legal saber rattling is too transparent. It’s not hard to see where it leads. Perhaps you’d like to see our sources dry up too? This is all classic Doug Phillips M.O. – legal threats and intimidation.

I’m quite familiar with the legal conditions for libel. Moreover I’m familiar with the court process. Good luck to Doug Phillips with making a case to a jury. Whether you care to admit it or not there are many people who would jump at the chance to offer testimony in a court of law against him. I seriously doubt such a case would even make it to trial though before he’d withdraw. The bright light of Discovery has a way of bringing the corrupt to their senses.

I wonder why TW is so familiar with legal conditions for libel and court processes? :whistle:

Now Jen says that the relationship with "Cassandra" wasn't sexual after all. Hasn't she read TW's "fact" and innuendoes? She goes back to trashing Mrs R.

Jen Says:

December 18, 2013 at 6:22 pm

Buddy, I do not know what they are covering up, but yes, I think this is just a cover story.

Let’s look at the facts. Doug Phillips has an inappropriate long-term romance with a young woman, but they don’t have sex. XXXXXXX has multiple inappropriate relationships with (and advances toward) multiple men, AND has sex, yet NOTHING is done about it. Why would Doug Phillips’ non-sexual relationship be a “serious†enough sin to cause him to resign and close down his whole life’s dream, his life’s work, his life’s vision, just as it was soaring to new heights (HJS), all because he didn’t have sex, yet XXXXXX’s much more serious behavior is simply winked at? Does that make sense to you?

Also, if this was really about an inappropriate relationship with no sex, it would be entirely appropriate to confess, repent (NO ONE believes he has repented), make appropriate changes, and come back to ministry. What major ministry of this size go up in flames like this because of NO sex? Yes, what he has “confessed†to is very wrong, but not to this magnitude.

Jen and TW: Your blog jumped the proverbial shark long ago. Give it up!

[RosyDaisy]

Jen Says:

December 18, 2013 at 4:29 pm

Nony, I agree with you that anything outside of proof is speculation. What we report in our articles is factual, based upon multiple witnesses.

I also agree that speculation outside of that is not helpful. Do I believe this is merely a cover story? Yes, I do. Do I know what is being covered up? Not at this time.

The only direction we are going here is where the EVIDENCE leads us. The evidence is posted in the articles.

Bitch, please! You contradicted yourself with the bolded statements. You don't have any evidence. All you have are theories, gossip, and tall tales. Your blog isn't isn't informative. Hell, I seriously doubt if anything you post about your own supposed dealings with Doug are true.

[hoipolloi]

Thanks, Palimpset, for the cray-cray roundup. Given these people's propensity for scrubbing blogs, comments, etc., it's probably good to capture some of the, uh, more egregious shite over here for general edification on what these people are really like.

However, we aren't the only the ones getting testy & fractious over TW's & Jen's nonsense. Here's someone from yesterday who, so far, has not been answered (commenter's quotes of Eston in red):

Hugh McCann Says:

December 18, 2013 at 6:59 pm

Dear Mr or Ms Eston,

As I asked before, please, who are you, and why should we believe your report & analysis?

With over 850 comments in this thread it’s pretty much impossible for us to keep up on every comment.

Hence, I may have missed your bio and credentials.

Also, you say that “openly speculating about Doug Phillips’ sexual preferences is purely salacious and inappropriate for this blog.â€

Fine. I don’t know why [you] get to make that call, but OK.

Then: The only reason we’ve openly discussed Doug’s clergy sexual abuse (and it most definitely was with a woman, not a man – hence “Cassandra†not “Bobâ€) is because there is hard evidence to support it.

OK, would you please produce or direct us to some?

Finally: There isn’t a shred of evidence to support that Doug Phillips is gay or bisexual. So unless there are insiders who step forward with proof, we’re not going to be entertaining such speculations here.

OK, but how do we know you’re an “insider� Or are you? Who are you, and why should we believe you and follow your directives here?

Thank you,

Hugh McCann

OK, TW, over to you: 3...2...1...

[Anise]

At this point I think people ought to question all info shared by Jen/TW. Including the identity of Hero, especially considering that Jen and TW are Kinists.