The Continuing Fall of VF and Doug Phillips is a tool-Part 4

[RachelB]

From the neck up, I will agree with some of you that The Tool has a somewhat attractive face. Especially in later years when he donned the beard. But the short body and wide stance and prancy movements to and fro (sometimes even in tights!) just scream TROLL to me. Or better yet, leprechaun. f I only saw his head I could see the attractiveness, but the rest just turns me off.

Context is everything, isn't it? When I look at the picture where Doug Phillips is a tool is sitting next to his former minion Peter Bradrick (McTool? O'Tool?) in the pew, and I briefly forget who they are, I think of how sweet they look together. And then I remember that they are not a couple, but a couple of tools.

[Cleopatra7]

Context is everything, isn't it? When I look at the picture where Doug Phillips is a tool is sitting next to his former minion Peter Bradrick (McTool? O'Tool?) in the pew, and I briefly forget who they are, I think of how sweet they look together. And then I remember that they are not a couple, but a couple of tools.

It's worth remembering that people have affairs every day and chances are the participants don't look like soap stars. Most indiscretions happen between average looking people who are married to other average looking people and seek affairs with a different average looking person.

[FlorenceHamilton]

The musings on the facial symmetry and pleasantness of Doug Phillips face have been really interesting. It comes down to the fact that FJ's have not had their critical thinking skills trained out of them. We can see and aknowledge that Doug Phillips (who is a tool) has pleasant facial features...even attractive. We also can see past that very quickly and he becomes unappealing at the very least.

What we ponder is whether the SAHD's have retained the ability to critically think at all. It likely varies, depending on the woman. And right now, we struggle with the subject of Hero and her ability to think critically and make a choice to engage with Doug Phillips, the tool or whether she simply did not have the skills to discern that his advances could have been spurned.

[nausicaa]

I did the same search and I am 100% positive you found the right birth record. Hero is currently 29 years old. Her brother is 26. Their parents' names are mentioned here: issacharian.com/?page=daughters (I hope it's okay to post that).

In that case, even if it started twelve years ago, Doug still couldn't be charged with anything, as the age of consent in Texas is 17 (not that it doesn't make him a completely depraved tool bag for using his power, age, and standing against a sheltered teenager).

And to others who suspect that there are other illegal activities Doug has participated in through his position, I completely agree. I also agree that the lack of transparency and dislike of getting the authorities involved in serious matters in these types of churches is a major problem. I just didn't understand the call for police involvement specifically relating to the Hero situation.

ETA: And in any case, at any age, in any year: Doug Phillips is a tool.

[mnwnwmwmn]

Based on the evidence I've heard/read, the public stance on slavery is that it is biblical and beneficial. They tap dance around the whole bigotry issue by declaring that chattle slavery based off of race is sinful, but certain cultures (you know, brown ones) must be made slaves so that they always have a christian male patriarchal head. I'm getting this from a speech given by Dan Ford at the NCFIC Sufficiency of Scripture conference, which had all the usual suspects as speakers, Doug, Scotty, Geoff, R.C. Jr....and Voddie, interestingly enough. Especially since now, on twitter, he's trying to act all shocked at his buddy's racist statements. The SoS conference is proof that at least four years ago, he knew exactly what the score was, and sure didn't seem to care. That speech should still be available on Sermon Audio, if you're interested in hearing it from the horse's mouth.

Jumping on the speculation train... I think criminal charges are coming soon, but my guess is they'll all be financially related. You know, slavery is illegal, and the IRS may not look very fondly on having women and children work at his warehouse, with no paychecks and no oversight. While I'm sure he thinks he found a loophole somewhere, he may be in for a big surprise. Invariably with narcissists, it's their belief that they're smarter than everyone that gets them in the end. They get sloppy, and then they get busted. It's a thing of beauty to watch them get beat at their own game.

As screwed up as his relationship was with they young lady, I'm not sure he did anything technically illegal. Honestly, I'm surprised that a sex scandal is what took him down. He always struck me as rather asexual, and smart enough to know any rumors of him with another woman would take his family-based empire down. I was expecting a scandal about money, physical abuse, extortion, etc. This nanny thing just seemed completely out of left field.

[WonderingInWA]

Based on the evidence I've heard/read, the public stance on slavery is that it is biblical and beneficial. They tap dance around the whole bigotry issue by declaring that chattle slavery based off of race is sinful, but certain cultures (you know, brown ones) must be made slaves so that they always have a christian male patriarchal head. I'm getting this from a speech given by Dan Ford at the NCFIC Sufficiency of Scripture conference, which had all the usual suspects as speakers, Doug, Scotty, Geoff, R.C. Jr....and Voddie, interestingly enough. Especially since now, on twitter, he's trying to act all shocked at his buddy's racist statements. The SoS conference is proof that at least four years ago, he knew exactly what the score was, and sure didn't seem to care. That speech should still be available on Sermon Audio, if you're interested in hearing it from the horse's mouth.

Jumping on the speculation train... I think criminal charges are coming soon, but my guess is they'll all be financially related. You know, slavery is illegal, and the IRS may not look very fondly on having women and children work at his warehouse, with no paychecks and no oversight. While I'm sure he thinks he found a loophole somewhere, he may be in for a big surprise. Invariably with narcissists, it's their belief that they're smarter than everyone that gets them in the end. They get sloppy, and then they get busted. It's a thing of beauty to watch them get beat at their own game.

As screwed up as his relationship was with they young lady, I'm not sure he did anything technically illegal. Honestly, I'm surprised that a sex scandal is what took him down. He always struck me as rather asexual, and smart enough to know any rumors of him with another woman would take his family-based empire down. I was expecting a scandal about money, physical abuse, extortion, etc. This nanny thing just seemed completely out of left field.

Well, again, I think the nanny/sex scandal was a decoy. Something to distract people (who?) from the rest of his wrongdoings which I think is what will put him in jail or at least have to spend a buttload of money and time on going to court.

[MamaJunebug]

mnwnwmwmn wrote:

Jumping on the speculation train... I think criminal charges are coming soon, but my guess is they'll all be financially related. You know, slavery is illegal, and the IRS may not look very fondly on having women and children work at his warehouse, with no paychecks and no oversight. While I'm sure he thinks he found a loophole somewhere, he may be in for a big surprise. Invariably with narcissists, it's their belief that they're smarter than everyone that gets them in the end. They get sloppy, and then they get busted. It's a thing of beauty to watch them get beat at their own game.

Thanks mnwnwmwmn for keeping us back on track. How are we going to keep up on any legal action that follows?

Have to weigh in on something a lot less important - Doug's appearance. I have the unfortunate habit of noticing similarities between people's faces. Imagine my mixed emotions when I met a guy who really, really resembles Doug - this lookalike guy is gay and well out of the closet, comfortable with his fairly frequent displays of fabulousness. We're in a formal business situation so I haven't spoken a word about his evil twin in SA, but it's pretty difficult, some times, to keep a straight face. My colleague, I consider handsome enough. Doug, I just can't.

[Palimpsest]

In that case, even if it started twelve years ago, Doug still couldn't be charged with anything, as the age of consent in Texas is 17 (not that it doesn't make him a completely depraved tool bag for using his power, age, and standing against a sheltered teenager).

And to others who suspect that there are other illegal activities Doug has participated in through his position, I completely agree. I also agree that the lack of transparency and dislike of getting the authorities involved in serious matters in these types of churches is a major problem. I just didn't understand the call for police involvement specifically relating to the Hero situation.

ETA: And in any case, at any age, in any year: Doug Phillips is a tool.

Nausicaa25, the source of the statutory rape rumor was, of course, "TW Eston" over on JensGems. He made the charge very early on and several people, including Marian the Librarian IIRC, called him out on the need to report statutory rape to the authorities. He then backtracked and said that he did not know for a fact that she was under 17 when the sexual relationship began in the comments. I lack the internal fortitude to go back and read through all TW's verbosity (he makes me look succinct!) but someone else may remember his first statement and retraction, or you could perhaps find it yourself.

In this latest article TW repeats the accusation more circumspectly. Just heavy implication instead of statement of "fact."

No one, other than Doug and Cassandra, know exactly when the sex began but, at best, Cassandra was barely at the age of legal consent (17 in Texas). Some have argued that it likely started when she was under the age of consent. For Doug Phillips’ sake he’d better not have done anything at all ‘inappropriate’ if she was under the age of consent. Texas has no statute of limitations in certain cases of sexual acts with a minor under the age of legal consent.

TW is still saying that Cassandra is now 30, although this is contradicted by the birth record you found. TW is very given to sweeping statements and wild accusations that he then modifies in the comments. Which is why I take everything he says with a bushel of salt!

If you want to give yourself a headache read the comments on the latest TW post on JensGems! TW and Jen are justifying themselves frantically and at length, and are being called out by several people. They have cropped Hero's photograph due to outside pressures, but now says that she approves of everything they have written. :shrug:

TW is a polymath and genius. He can conclusively diagnose mental illness, is a world authority on clergy abuse, is familiar with all things legal and mansplains why "media buzz" is a good thing, and is also an expert on journalistic practices. :nenner:

OTOH, Jen thinks that third hand hearsay ("Dr Postulate" says that "Eduardo" says that Scott Brown says that everything she and TW have written is true) should be proof enough for everyone to buy everything they are saying. :roll:

Yes, Doug is a depraved tool!

[nausicaa]

Thank you Palimpsest!

I suspected it may have first made an appearance on JensGems, but that site also gives me a headache!

[mrs]

Did JensGems ever promise to post about the financial state of Vision Forum? Or was that just a rumor?

[dawbs]

I am *so* tempted to buy one of the dolls and make her over as Betty Friedan, Bella Abzug, Ti-Grace Atkinson, Angela Davis, or Gloria Steinem.

No dolls left...

But if you click on 'girls' it now includes the action toys:

http://www.visionforum.com/browse/produ ... fault.aspx

Because apparently when you're down to 36 items left, it's no longer important to protect little girls from suction-cup-arrows.

(There's some sort of double entendre ^there I know :-)

[Palimpsest]

Based on the evidence I've heard/read, the public stance on slavery is that it is biblical and beneficial. They tap dance around the whole bigotry issue by declaring that chattle slavery based off of race is sinful, but certain cultures (you know, brown ones) must be made slaves so that they always have a christian male patriarchal head. I'm getting this from a speech given by Dan Ford at the NCFIC Sufficiency of Scripture conference, which had all the usual suspects as speakers, Doug, Scotty, Geoff, R.C. Jr....and Voddie, interestingly enough. Especially since now, on twitter, he's trying to act all shocked at his buddy's racist statements. The SoS conference is proof that at least four years ago, he knew exactly what the score was, and sure didn't seem to care. That speech should still be available on Sermon Audio, if you're interested in hearing it from the horse's mouth.

Jumping on the speculation train... I think criminal charges are coming soon, but my guess is they'll all be financially related. You know, slavery is illegal, and the IRS may not look very fondly on having women and children work at his warehouse, with no paychecks and no oversight. While I'm sure he thinks he found a loophole somewhere, he may be in for a big surprise. Invariably with narcissists, it's their belief that they're smarter than everyone that gets them in the end. They get sloppy, and then they get busted. It's a thing of beauty to watch them get beat at their own game.

As screwed up as his relationship was with they young lady, I'm not sure he did anything technically illegal. Honestly, I'm surprised that a sex scandal is what took him down. He always struck me as rather asexual, and smart enough to know any rumors of him with another woman would take his family-based empire down. I was expecting a scandal about money, physical abuse, extortion, etc. This nanny thing just seemed completely out of left field.

There is a really horrible revisionist video out there made by Dan Ford (or perhaps it was Jason Dohm) of NCFIC which pretty much states that the Africans should have been grateful for being taken into slavery as it freed them from savagery and saved their pagan souls. Also that all slave owners were kind and benevolent caregivers to their slaves. Makes you want to vomit

Joining you on the ISB. If I were a betting woman I'd put money on Doug going down on financial misdemeanors, specifically tax evasion and possibly embezzlement. The question is, how many of the VFM board will he take with him? The board may have been indemnified, but the CFO and Treasurer are not going to look good if/when the IRS comes down on Vision Forum.

As to other things, I agree that nannygate was out of left field. Other civil charges? Hmm. A class action suit for back pay from the women and children who worked without pay for VFI lead by Hero? Sexual harassment charges? Hero may not have a wonderful case if she was perceived as welcoming the relationship, but the men who worked for VFI could charge hostile workplace? All the above purely idle speculation on my part. :)

[MamaJunebug]

I hope that any charges are financial and that they're made to stick, and to neutralize this head of the patriarchy/dominionist hydra once and for all.

Affairs/abuses are bad but hard to quantify.

With financial wrongdoing, well: the numbers, they do not lie!

[hoipolloi]

If you want to give yourself a headache read the comments on the latest TW post on JensGems! TW and Jen are justifying themselves frantically and at length, and are being called out by several people. They have cropped Hero's photograph due to outside pressures, but now says that she approves of everything they have written. :shrug:

But -- and they all agree on this -- Doug Phillips Is A Tool could never EVER be a homosexual - oh no, not in a million 6,000 years.

T.W. Eston Says:

December 16, 2013 at 12:59 pm

I’m glad you’re reconsidering your beliefs that Doug Phillips is gay. As I’ve said before there is no testimonial evidence to support that suspicion. The fact that he loves dress-up parties, etc. is little support for such notions. Furthermore, although Doug is rather touchy-feely with the boys, he tends to be that way with everyone.

Good thing that's a certainty.

:orly:

[nokidsmom]

I had no doubt from the start that there were financial shenanigans perpetrated by Dougie and the "affair" is really a small tip of a one really big iceberg. Don't think the affair is a "decoy" but would be surprised if this affair was the only one he was involved with. Not sure if the suspected other party in nannygate is really the person and so I have avoided any speculation involving her. I really can't put much on what's being posted by Jen and "TW". Between Jen's axe to grind and TW's stating "facts" that should involve law enforcement then retracting these "facts" doesn't make either of them reliable. Now, there may be grains of truth in what they are saying but it's dispersed among statements that are biased or they back away from when questioned.

I do agree that it's only a matter of time that Dougie goes down due to the financial stuff but it could take awhile due to these large churches' unwillingness to involve authorities in their affairs and probably some VFM big wigs running scared as well. But there's a lot of ticked off VF members / believers out there right now and amongst them there will be someone who will want to take him down.

[RosyDaisy]

For me, it's when he's talking, and not just because of the repulsive bullshit coming out of his mouth. It's actually something about how his chin moves when he talks that makes his face look just bizarre.

edited for clarity.

He looks and acts like he's God. If he sticks is nose up in the air any higher he will drown when rains. Seriously, though, he has that batshit crazy look.

[VVV]

I go Christmas caroling every year inside the Bexar County Jail, and now I have a picture of Doug Phillips is a tool in an orange jumpsuit inside one of the pods alongside a whole lot of people that he wouldn't even look at in his previous life. Probably won't happen even if he's charged with financial misdeeds since I'm assuming he'll get the best attorney that money can buy, but still....

[Mary C Doates]

No dolls left...

But if you click on 'girls' it now includes the action toys:

http://www.visionforum.com/browse/produ ... fault.aspx

Because apparently when you're down to 36 items left, it's no longer important to protect little girls from suction-cup-arrows.

(There's some sort of double entendre ^there I know :-)

Only 26 items left. I don't know why Doug (Phillips who is a tool) and Beall's "Advanced Family Strategies" 10 DVD box set is still available--you'd think people would be foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to buy a copy. Maybe VF should throw in a free set of Lightning Super Bow arrows for purchasers' quivers along with the DVDs.

Doug Phillips is a tool.

[RosyDaisy]

What we ponder is whether the SAHD's have retained the ability to critically think at all. It likely varies, depending on the woman.

That depends on there place in the social hierarchy. Not all women in patriarchal groups are the submissive helpmeets they appear to be.

[PhiMuLady]

Only 26 items left. I don't know why Doug (Phillips who is a tool) and Beall's "Advanced Family Strategies" 10 DVD box set is still available--you'd think people would be foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to buy a copy. Maybe VF should throw in a free set of Lightning Super Bow arrows for purchasers' quivers along with the DVDs.

Doug Phillips is a tool.

If you use the last-chance 75OFF code, you can get your very own Titanic "Women & Children First" poster for the amazingly low low price of 19 cents.

[LaLele]

I go Christmas caroling every year inside the Bexar County Jail, and now I have a picture of Doug Phillips is a tool in an orange jumpsuit inside one of the pods alongside a whole lot of people that he wouldn't even look at in his previous life. Probably won't happen even if he's charged with financial misdeeds since I'm assuming he'll get the best attorney that money can buy, but still....

If he goes down for taxes he will likely be in a federal pokey.

[Talitha Cumi]

But -- and they all agree on this -- Doug Phillips Is A Tool could never EVER be a homosexual - oh no, not in a million 6,000 years.

:lol:

[dawbs]

If you use the last-chance 75OFF code, you can get your very own Titanic "Women & Children First" poster for the amazingly low low price of 19 cents.

If I thought they'd loose $ instead of profiting on shipping, I'd order it. :lol: ($3.64 for me to get it shipped)

[nelliebelle1197]

You know, I doubt there are any real financial shenanigans. Do I think he was Slim Shady with the money? Hell yeah. But I bet he has things tied up in perfectly barely legal ways like most people with any sort of power- you know, really annoying loopholes and corporate structure shams.

[Palimpsest]

You know, I doubt there are any real financial shenanigans. Do I think he was Slim Shady with the money? Hell yeah. But I bet he has things tied up in perfectly barely legal ways like most people with any sort of power- you know, really annoying loopholes and corporate structure shams.

I respectfully beg to differ. There was the documented 2009 sale of the radio broadcast thing from VFI to VFM for one thing. Can we say conflict of interest? :shock:

There is also the idea that he seems to have used VFM for political reasons (not sure this has been independently verified yet) but that is wrong for a 501©(3).

And the unpaid labor of wives and children bit at VFI. I salivate for a class action suit on that one although I doubt it will come to fruition! :lol:

I'm really not sure any of these will/can survive to reach an actual court case, but I hope they do. As MJB says, the most likely and provable things against Doug are a financial paper trail of cooking the books. I hope Doug is enough of a narcisist to try to represent himself in court. He could go down hard!