The Continuing Fall of VF and Doug Phillips is a tool-Part 4

[WonderingInWA]

You know, I doubt there are any real financial shenanigans. Do I think he was Slim Shady with the money? Hell yeah. But I bet he has things tied up in perfectly barely legal ways like most people with any sort of power- you know, really annoying loopholes and corporate structure shams.

He's an attorney -- he knows how to find loopholes. You are probably right. Just barely on the edge of legal. But it's kind of fun to fantasize that he might have missed something.

[gustava]

He's an attorney -- he knows how to find loopholes. You are probably right. Just barely on the edge of legal. But it's kind of fun to fantasize that he might have missed something.

Some attorneys are ... narcissists... and think they won't be caught. Same for some preachers. Dougie the tool is both.

[nelliebelle1197]

I respectfully beg to differ. There was the documented 2009 sale of the radio broadcast thing from VFI to VFM for one thing. Can we say conflict of interest? :shock:

There is also the idea that he seems to have used VFM for political reasons (not sure this has been independently verified yet) but that is wrong for a 501©(3).

And the unpaid labor of wives and children bit at VFI. I salivate for a class action suit on that one although I doubt it will come to fruition! :lol:

I'm really not sure any of these will/can survive to reach an actual court case, but I hope they do. As MJB says, the most likely and provable things against Doug are a financial paper trail of cooking the books. I hope Doug is enough of a narcisist to try to represent himself in court. He could go down hard!

That is why I am saying he is shady, but probably skirting the edges of the law just fine. Unpaid labor? They were willing volunteers! Nothing illegal about that. Ministers exhort on politics from the pulpit all the time. The penalty is possible loss or suspension of 501c3, but it is not illegal in the criminal sense. The IRS does not bring charges for that, and frankly is too scared to the religious right to even pursue the 501c3 issues. As to the radio sale, conflicts of interests are unethical but only illegal if there was something in the corporate structure that prevented the asset transfer. Unless he was not paying taxes or embezzling, I am unsure what the financial illegalities might be. We have to remember the US codes are set up so people like this can get away with all sorts of law-skirting behavior. It should make us all very, very angry.

[thoughtful]

There is a really horrible revisionist video out there made by Dan Ford (or perhaps it was Jason Dohm) of NCFIC which pretty much states that the Africans should have been grateful for being taken into slavery as it freed them from savagery and saved their pagan souls. Also that all slave owners were kind and benevolent caregivers to their slaves. Makes you want to vomit

This one?

E_qXsScQzb0

It's Dan Horn.

We were discussing it on this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20234&start=60

It is utterly bizarre and offensive. The words "revisionist" and "racist" don't even begin to cover it.

[Cleopatra7]

Some attorneys are ... narcissists... and think they won't be caught. Same for some preachers. Dougie the tool is both.

Having a legal background doesn't inoculate one from committing bad acts, especially if sex and money are involved. Fred Tokars was a big-time Atlanta lawyer who was knee-deep into all kinds of illegal stuff, when his wife, Sarah found out. He hired a hit on her and was killed in front of her two young sons. Tokars was convicted and became a prison snitch. I don't think that the tool was involved in anything this sordid, but when you're rich and have an inflated ego, it's pretty easy to get caught in a web of escalating vice.

[Palimpsest]

This one?

E_qXsScQzb0

It's Dan Horn.

We were discussing it on this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20234&start=60

It is utterly bizarre and offensive. The words "revisionist" and "racist" don't even begin to cover it.

Yep, I think that is a trailer for the longer video I was talking about. It is older than 2013. I honestly could not make it through the whole thing for the above stated need to vomit. You are right, that is Dan Horn, one of Scottie's best buddies. For some reason my brain connects it to Jason Dohm because think I first saw the link to the video on Ephesians511 (the expose on Scott Brown and Jason's disciplining by Trinity Baptist before they left set up Hope Baptist.)

Voddie goes along with this crowd of vile racists. :pink-shock:

I missed the Hip Hop thread and have to pop over and read. So many threads, so little time. :)

[Palimpsest]

That is why I am saying he is shady, but probably skirting the edges of the law just fine. Unpaid labor? They were willing volunteers! Nothing illegal about that. Ministers exhort on politics from the pulpit all the time. The penalty is possible loss or suspension of 501c3, but it is not illegal in the criminal sense. The IRS does not bring charges for that, and frankly is too scared to the religious right to even pursue the 501c3 issues. As to the radio sale, conflicts of interests are unethical but only illegal if there was something in the corporate structure that prevented the asset transfer. Unless he was not paying taxes or embezzling, I am unsure what the financial illegalities might be. We have to remember the US codes are set up so people like this can get away with all sorts of law-skirting behavior. It should make us all very, very angry.

A good reality check. :)

I still hope that Doug was so arrogant that he cooked the books in a way that will send him to pokey for a good long time. I'm an optimist. :twisted:

[thoughtful]

Yep, I think that is a trailer for the longer video I was talking about.

A longer video? I don't think I could stand it. :(

[nelliebelle1197]

A good reality check. :)

I still hope that Doug was so arrogant that he cooked the books in a way that will send him to pokey for a good long time. I'm an optimist. :twisted:

Yep, I am here to take away all the fun!

[RosyDaisy]

Just because they aren't involved in BCA or VF anymore doesn't mean they don't agree, at least in principle, with the ideology. The death penalty for adultery thing seems to be par for the course in Christian Reconstructionist circles, so I can't say I'm surprised about that. In practice, I'm not sure how that would work. An entire Christian Sharia law system would have to be created. I guess that's why there were so many people with law degrees at BCA...

The only thing missing are women wearing burqas.

[RosyDaisy]

You forget that there is more to consent than lack of physical coercion.

Like age difference (hence, the definition of "statutory rape"), power differential, spiritual abuse, socioeconomic differential, subservience of girls in the culture... this list could go on and on.

It doesn't take Jen or TW to see these things.

No, I didn't forget. You're missing the point that we don't know exactly who Hero is (nanny, young SAHD, wife of someone at BCA or VF, or just a random woman Doug knows) and the exact nature of their "inappropriate relationship". People who have an ax to grind are pulling tales out of their asses. I trust those people as far as I can throw them.

Having said all of that, Doug Plillips is a Crazy Ass Tool. Sooner or later karma will bite him on the ass for the evil empire he has created.

P.S. I am not defending Doug Phillips at all. He is a crazy ass tool who has a lot to answer for.

[Soulhuntress]

Please correct me if I am wrong but BCA is truly nothing more than a very small church with a big internet presence that marketed to a specific demographic?

[tropaka]

Please correct me if I am wrong but BCA is truly nothing more than a very small church with a big internet presence that marketed to a specific demographic?

My understanding that BCA is a small home church but that Tool was making his cash/organizing conferences and dress up events through Vision Forum Ministries and Inc., which reached a wider Christian/homeschooling base. Sounds like BCA was a smaller venue where he could control people more completely (woman not allowed to speak, the whole fucking with peoples' heads through church discipline etc and so on).

[Palimpsest]

My understanding that BCA is a small home church but that Tool was making his cash/organizing conferences and dress up events through Vision Forum Ministries and Inc., which reached a wider Christian/homeschooling base. Sounds like BCA was a smaller venue where he could control people more completely (woman not allowed to speak, the whole fucking with peoples' heads through church discipline etc and so on).

This! BCA has almost no internet presence and I think the membership is only around 300 (including children).

[Cleopatra7]

This! BCA has almost no internet presence and I think the membership is only around 300 (including children).

I thought BCA was much smaller. But I think that FICs in general and house churches in particular aren't supposed to be very large, so that the flock is easier to control...er "protect."

[Palimpsest]

I thought BCA was much smaller. But I think that FICs in general and house churches in particular aren't supposed to be very large, so that the flock is easier to control...er "protect."

Yes, BCA is tiny. I should have been clearer that I was just going for a very rough estimate. I think BCA consisted of about 30 families (each filling quivers with multiple children) at most. It is really hard to tell because of the unconfirmed rumors that 6 or 8 (or perhaps even 12!) families left last February. The present BCA members aren't talking openly.

[snickerz]

On the stoning for adultery thing - what about when Jesus stopped them from doing this in the Bible and said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. How can they ignore that when they are supposedly followers of Jesus? :angry-banghead:

[Hane]

On the stoning for adultery thing - what about when Jesus stopped them from doing this in the Bible and said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. How can they ignore that when they are supposedly followers of Jesus? :angry-banghead:

Oh, that trouble-making Jesus hippie dude. He wasn't even MARRIED--why should anyone listen to HIM?

[Palimpsest]

On the stoning for adultery thing - what about when Jesus stopped them from doing this in the Bible and said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. How can they ignore that when they are supposedly followers of Jesus? :angry-banghead:

My oversimplistic explanation:

Theonomists like Jen and TW rely more on the OT (no need to repeat the OT rulz in the NT) and aren't necessarily KJV Only "every word in the Bible is true." Although that passage is in John, "scholars" at Chalcedon think the inclusion was an evil Roman Catholic plot, and that it shouldn't be there or can be disregarded. OT teachings for stoning for adultery win.

To be fair, I think the passage is missing or in different places in some of the earliest Greek manuscripts and some mainstream theologians also wonder whether it is consistent with the historical Jesus.

That's all I've got! Return to your regularly scheduled programming.

[DomWackTroll]

Eston is now saying that he has "confirmed" that Scott Brown was on the Greece trip.

[hoipolloi]

The plot thickens over at Jen's Gems:

lohmo Says:

December 18, 2013 at 2:48 am

Thanks Jen for picking up this thread. The point of bringing this topic again is not to add some chilli to the drama, but to gently turn attention to another possible victim: a potentially long-time consensually closeted male partner (same pattern of education-based vulnerability to silent abuse applies), who was deeply hurt and about to come out when called “a woman†but then financially or morally blackmailed and quieted back into the closet.

Uncovering such story, if it happens to be like this, would help to lift the lid and allow this person, first of all to go through well-deserved public hell for the collaboration in joint family & friends deceipt. But afterwards, if encouraged and supported, he could become a prominent arrow to pull other like-natured out of the homophobic quivers into another world, where “not knowing each other in the biblical sense†doesn’t harm themselves and others that much.

[Queen Of Hearts]

The plot thickens over at Jen's Gems:

What the hell? I am sick of all the riddles. I wish if people actually know something they just say it instead of all this tip toeing through the tulips crap.

[Palimpsest]

The plot thickens over at Jen's Gems:

Can someone translate that for me?

[snarkopolis]

Transalation==Doug (is a Tool) was really having an affair with a MAN. (OOOOHHHHHHHH :lol: ). That MAN was about to come screaming out of the closet [and thereby dragging Doug (is a Tool) along with him]. Rather than be exposed :D like that, Doug (is a Tool) conveniently admitted to KNOWING :doh: a woman who was NOT his wife. Knowing in a non biblical (yet biblical) way, ya know? The poster is intimating that the MAN is still wanting to come out of the closet but is getting PAID not to. Doug (is a Tool) is practicing The best lies have an element of truth in it.

[DomWackTroll]

What the hell? I am sick of all the riddles. I wish if people actually know something they just say it instead of all this tip toeing through the tulips crap.

Exactly. I never thought I'd say it, but this scandal is getting boring.

“Bradrick… Bradrick… Anyone?â€