The Continuing Fall of VF and Doug Phillips is a tool-Part 4

[Cleopatra7]

Wasn't Howard Phillips from Boston? His wikipedia entry said that he settled in Virginia near Washington D.C. Considering his family background, it would seem more natural for Doug to want his family to dress up as Union soldiers not the side that lost. I don't understand the romanticism for the Confederates. Certainly I can understand why a historian would want a more nuanced approach to the some of the southern soldiers than just "These were the bad guys". I can't comprehend worshipping the Confederates. The south fought the war primarily over slavery. Period. The south started the war so would be considered terrorists today.

It seems that ultra-conservatives of all religious persuasions like the Confederacy because they seem to embody a harmonious, patriarchal, religious society, free from the social upheavals of modern, individualistic, capitalist society (i.e., the North). I saw Catholic traditionalists engage in Lost Cause worship, and it turned my stomach.

[debrand]

It seems that ultra-conservatives of all religious persuasions like the Confederacy because they seem to embody a harmonious, patriarchal, religious society, free from the social upheavals of modern, individualistic, capitalist society (i.e., the North). I saw Catholic traditionalists engage in Lost Cause worship, and it turned my stomach.

I think what they ultimately want is an oligarchy with people on the bottom tier of society worshipping the ruling families. What Doug Phillips and people like him don't understand is that they probably wouldn't be among the ruling elite.

[RosyDaisy]

Wasn't Howard Phillips from Boston? His wikipedia entry said that he settled in Virginia near Washington D.C. Considering his family background, it would seem more natural for Doug to want his family to dress up as Union soldiers not the side that lost. I don't understand the romanticism for the Confederates. Certainly I can understand why a historian would want a more nuanced approach to the some of the southern soldiers than just "These were the bad guys". I can't comprehend worshipping the Confederates. The south fought the war primarily over slavery. Period. The south started the war so would be considered terrorists today.

Cliff Notes version: The Yankees were taking their rights away. They conveniently leave out "their right to own slaves". This fits in perfectly with their anti-government stand.

[smittykins]

"And I would do anything for love, but I won't... do... Yuck."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

And, thanks for the earworm....I think.

[thoughtful]

I just finished reading that (excellent, BTW). Rob would definitely be deriding Dougie and his crew as total farbs.

:lol: Absolutely -- they are farbtastic, couldn't pull off a good bloat in a million years, and that uniform and beard are way too clean. Put some rancid pork grease in there, boy!

OK, that's the end of my silliness based on the book -- here's the serious part. Everyone who has commented on why people romanticize the Confederacy has been right, since it circles around different aspects for different people.

Part of the appeal of the book is that the author, who has had an interest in the Civil War since childhood, traveled around the entire southeastern US, drawing people out about their views. Here's a smattering:

The idea that to be "Confederate" just means "against big government" is in there. :shock:

Many see the Confederates not as American citizens attacking their own country, but a separate government that had a perfect right to declare war and wage it.

Some of the people who would have been hardscrabble poor at the time, not running a plantation, seem to cling to it because it gives them a family history that sounds noble.

The re-enactment stuff has grown into a whole industry, with participants ranging from the "farbs" mentioned above (people who seem more into the cosplay) to those who want to relive all of the horror and hardship, short of actually dying. There are lots of people involve who prefer to portray Union soldiers, but many see the rebels as lovable underdogs making a noble sacrifice, conveniently forgetting the treason and racism parts.

Oh, and of course the "it wasn't about slavery, really it wasn't!" is there in force. Flat-out admitting to racism seems to be something most of them know not to do, except in the weird "but they weren't so bad off" shit that we see from the fundies.

It seems the romanticizing, and pretending the Confederacy still exists, actually hasn't continued steadily since the end of the war -- it ebbs and flows. People with an agenda have either whipped it up or used it over the years.

Right now, I'm up to the part about Fitzgerald, Georgia, which was built by a man with the wonderful name of Philander Fitzgerald, to bring Union veterans to a better climate during a drought in the midwest. It was planned around the theme of reconciliation, and it seems to have worked, for that one tiny town.

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/arti ... fitzgerald

[RosyDaisy]

I would just like to add that hostility of some had always existed between the north and south since colonization. As people migrated westward, slave holders and non-slave holders fighting each other to keep slavery in or out of the territories. That's when things came to head.

[hoipolloi]

I would just like to add that hostility of some had always existed between the north and south since colonization. As people migrated westward, slave holders and non-slave holders fighting each other to keep slavery in or out of the territories. That's when things came to head.

For a non-Cliff Notes but very absorbing version of this, read Albion's Seed, by David Hackett Fischer (http://www.amazon.com/Albions-Seed-Brit ... 0195069056). It's a long haul of a read but really interesting if you want to understand why Anglo Whites in the US are so different & bizarre.

[thoughtful]

For a non-Cliff Notes but very absorbing version of this, read Albion's Seed, by David Hackett Fischer (http://www.amazon.com/Albions-Seed-Brit ... 0195069056). It's a long haul of a read but really interesting if you want to understand why Anglo Whites in the US are so different & bizarre.

Thanks, RosyDaisy and hoipolloi -- I just requested it from the library

Some of the attitudes that go back that far are mentioned in Confederates in the Attic, although I don't remember a large focus on them.

The roman a clef about VF, Fake Someone Happy, includes a description of an uncomfortable evening spent listening to songs about how the evil English abused Scotland.

[Palimpsest]

Thanks, RosyDaisy and hoipolloi -- I just requested it from the library

Some of the attitudes that go back that far are mentioned in Confederates in the Attic, although I don't remember a large focus on them.

The roman a clef about VF, Fake Someone Happy, includes a description of an uncomfortable evening spent listening to songs about how the evil English abused Scotland.

That seems to be a VF theme. (Although, I hate to agree with VF, there is some validity to the claim.)

Which reminds me. On a related theme, there is this young English woman's blog. She trashed her first place trophy for SAICFF Best Documentary 2004 in 2012 - a year before the Fall of the Tool!

She saw through the scam. I loved the bits about Homeschooling, the see-through blouse :shock: , and the ineffectual intern. I bet he got into trouble!

christiannatureofmusic.com/reflections/2012/6/13/saying-goodbye-to-the-saicff.html#.UrhWdNJDvHT

The SAICFF

The festival is run by Doug Phillips of Vision Forum. The prize came to Broad Oak for one reason: we were foreign. I couldn't quite realise this at the time. I was under the impression that America and the UK were separated only by an ocean. But we were the exotic marketing pitch. We made the winners group look and sound like the festival was big and important.

I can still remember sitting for the photo of the winners. Phillips said how wonderful it was to see such a group of homeschoolers as the winners. I put my hand up. "Um. We weren't homeschooled," I said, pointing towards my brother who had accompanied me for the Texan trip. "Oh, but you're going to, aren't you!" he replied. I guffawed. As an unmarried, unattached 19 year old I didn't feel as though I needed to have any moral position on the rights or wrongs of sending children to school. As we say, first catch your chickens.

So we accidentally spoiled that winning picture of homeschool success. Just as I accidentally crossed the line by taking the microphone off an ineffectual intern who hadn't the guts or charm to stop me from taking further questions after the film. Just as I accidentally made the photos of the festival more interesting by wearing a see-through blouse. Just as in the acceptance speech my brother accidentally crossed the line by telling a joke about seeing Doug Phillips' Senator father in the toilet. We knew nothing of the incredible taboos we had crossed. And now, almost 8 years later, I no longer care. Part of having "foreign visitors" must be that we have different cultural expectations. We respected the expectations of those around us by standing during the national anthem. They disrespected ours by treating us to an "entertainment" of Scottish songs against the English.

We should never have won. On heart-warming status, Nellie should have won. On production, Tyndale should have won. On home-crowd support, the one of the Civil War should have won. But we won. And we won a trophy. The promised "hidden prizes" evaporated. There was just one prize and a bunch of very heavy trophies. It is huge. It is so huge it got me searched at the airport before I left San Antonio.

[thoughtful]

That seems to be a VF theme. (Although, I hate to agree with VF, there is some validity to the claim.)

Which reminds me. On a related theme, there is this young English woman's blog. She trashed her first place trophy for SAICFF Best Documentary 2004 in 2012 - a year before the Fall of the Tool!

She saw through the scam. I loved the bits about Homeschooling, the see-through blouse :shock: , and the ineffectual intern. I bet he got into trouble!

christiannatureofmusic.com/reflections/2012/6/13/saying-goodbye-to-the-saicff.html#.UrhWdNJDvHT

That's the woman to whom I was referring -- she wrote Fake Someone Happy, under a pseudonym (the name of a character from a Hitchcock movie! :D ).

[ThisOlGirl]

That seems to be a VF theme. (Although, I hate to agree with VF, there is some validity to the claim.)

Which reminds me. On a related theme, there is this young English woman's blog. She trashed her first place trophy for SAICFF Best Documentary 2004 in 2012 - a year before the Fall of the Tool!

She saw through the scam. I loved the bits about Homeschooling, the see-through blouse :shock: , and the ineffectual intern. I bet he got into trouble!

christiannatureofmusic.com/reflections/2012/6/13/saying-goodbye-to-the-saicff.html#.UrhWdNJDvHT

"A man stood on the stage and took a pretend phonecall from God in which the Lord God Almighty told him that he was more pleased with the shoddy little film made by a 9 year old Christian than with Steven Spielberg."

Ten bucks says the guy taking the phone call from God was Doug "More cellos!!!" Philllips Is A Tool, Esq. I mean it HAS to be, right?

[thoughtful]

Ten bucks says the guy taking the phone call from God was Doug "More cellos!!!" Philllips Is A Tool, Esq. I mean it HAS to be, right?

No need to bet -- it was. Thread here:

http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... =8&t=18502

[salex]

Wasn't Howard Phillips from Boston? His wikipedia entry said that he settled in Virginia near Washington D.C. Considering his family background, it would seem more natural for Doug to want his family to dress up as Union soldiers not the side that lost. I don't understand the romanticism for the Confederates. Certainly I can understand why a historian would want a more nuanced approach to the some of the southern soldiers than just "These were the bad guys". I can't comprehend worshipping the Confederates. The south fought the war primarily over slavery. Period. The south started the war so would be considered terrorists today.

Here is an overview (from an atheist site) that goes into some of this.....

atheism.about.com/od/christianismnationalism/p/ConfederateSout.htm

And, this (a little more dense to read) includes many references to other info I've seen in other sources about how the war was often posed as Godly south vs ungodly north. And thus the people today who go with the romanticizing of the civil war go with that.... it mentions anti modernism, which is discouraging to me because my state's newest appointed high level judge is known for being anti modernist and a Old Scots Covenanter/Evangelical Presbyterian.... which makes me think he'd fit right in with the vision forum types.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/civil_war ... review.htm

Often published by the presses of the Presbyterian Church, a body of literature developed that asserted the Civil War had been an attack on a Christian South by heretical and atheistic forces of the North.

“[f]or three decades after the fall of the Confederacy in lectures and in books … energetically expounded the dogma that … the Civil War was a Christian struggle of a justified South against a wicked North†(405).

[salex]

Someone mentioned "would be called terrorists today". Bloody Kansas got a lot of terrorism pre civil war on both sides of the issue. But as we all know, perspective is everything and when a friend of ours moved from Virginia to Kansas, his child went with his class to the Kansas Capitol building, where he was shocked and confused.

He was from near Harper's Ferry, so had heard all about John Brown and his much deserved hanging.

Imagine his shock when he toured his new state's capitol building and saw John Brown portrayed as a somewhat respected major historical figure of the state.

[duplessis3]

JohnStown much deserved hanging? Have to say I am on the side of John Brown, who believed in the rights of native Americans, black p people and women, whose family.taught native Americans, black people and women the same as they did the mention, who.we're trying to get arms to insurgents slaves so they could revolt..

With slaves in charge. The bad rap he get is.from southerners. He is a freaking hero of equal l ity. And as malcolm said (paraphrasing I'm on my kindle or I.w or cut and paste ) white people shod be willing to.do.what John Brown did I.e. die for the.right to.freedom for black folks.

[salex]

JohnStown much deserved hanging? Have to say I am on the side of John Brown, who believed in the rights of native Americans, black p people and women, whose family.taught native Americans, black people and women the same as they did the mention, who.we're trying to get arms to insurgents slaves so they could revolt..

With slaves in charge. The bad rap he get is.from southerners. He is a freaking hero of equal l ity. And as malcolm said (paraphrasing I'm on my kindle or I.w or cut and paste ) white people shod be willing to.do.what John Brown did I.e. die for the.right to.freedom for black folks.

i agree--just pointing out the differeces between history lessons in different states

[Dysfundamental]

Ah. I was also confused. Now I see what point you were making, salex---in the Virginia textbooks, Brown's execution was depicted as "well deserved," that wasn't your friend's (or your) take on it.

I like that mural. They don't paint 'em like that anymore.

[salex]

Ah. I was also confused. Now I see what point you were making, salex---in the Virginia textbooks, Brown's execution was depicted as "well deserved," that wasn't your friend's (or your) take on it.

I like that mural. They don't paint 'em like that anymore.

The friend's son had been taught Brown deserved to be hanged and was a criminal before he moved to KS and saw the mural.... which is what sort of freaked the kid out.

[twin2]

'Ello 'Ello!

What do we have here?

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.565309936890394.1073741834.113049618783097&type=3 < It'$ a public $ite of a patriarchal photographer, I'm sure he wouldn't mind the publicity !

Photos of Mr Joshua Phillip$ (the oldest, malest and most photogenic of the Phillip$ kids) off on his travels in Peru!

oh yeah and this

Looks like someone inherited their daddy'$ love of dre$$ing up (Twin2 rejoice!).

$?

$!

Does the apple fall far from the tree? I $hall watch with intere$t. :popcorn2:

His dad may have fallen from grace, but from what I can tell of young JT, he has his dad's ego. He could easily try and launch VF 2.0.

[Mama Mia]

I gotta say, all this civil war stuff is very interesting. As a kid growing up in California it was, of course, covered in history class. But really never in great detail, it just wasn't seen as a major part of " our" history, even though California was a state by then. In fact I just learned more about California's involvement through Wikipedia just now than I ever did in school.

[Peas n carrots]

I'm sure JT will try to make up some kind of ministry of his own. I mean, what else does he have to fall back on other than being photogenic and possessing a large collection of costumes? At least his old man has a degree to fall back on, whereas JT...umm, does he even have an education through College Minus?

[starfish]

I wonder what life has been like in the Manse since all this broke? Doug sitting in his library...crying. Beall trying to pretend like everything is normal....The kids running around in Doug's cast off costumes being obnoxious....

I can see Doug singing a version of "What do the simple folk/fundies do" from Camelot....

[WonderingInWA]

Dougie has most certainly been hiding, plotting his next move. Certainly he will resurface. I imagine they're a bit busy moving out of the palatial estate and finding a place to go. I don't think money is an issue (yet -- until he gets his ass sued), but certainly moving a family of 10 (is it 10?) can't be easy. His costume closet alone must take up an entire wing of the house.

[starfish]

Dougie has most certainly been hiding, plotting his next move. Certainly he will resurface. I imagine they're a bit busy moving out of the palatial estate and finding a place to go. I don't think money is an issue (yet -- until he gets his ass sued), but certainly moving a family of 10 (is it 10?) can't be easy. His costume closet alone must take up an entire wing of the house.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I can just hear him yelling at the movers to be careful with the Reformation wig, or something like that

[WonderingInWA]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I can just hear him yelling at the movers to be careful with the Reformation wig, or something like that

Don't forget his "Women and Children First" costume, complete with a sign on the back side that says "kick me (into a lifeboat)".