The Continuing Fall of VF and Doug Phillips is a tool-Part 4

[WonderingInWA]

Brad Voeller and Woody Robertson came from an ATI background. Not sure about Ryan. I can find out though. Brad's dad was in charge of ATI homeschool curriculum and ran off with his secretary. Old story. Quite a few of the original CP team have backgrounds in ATI and ATI's college program, Verity.

Cplus or minus is based in San Antonio like VF. A lot of people in the VF crowd are attracted to CP because it allows their kids to stay at home, under parental authority, but still get a degree. Like Voddie Bauchams kids. So a continuation of homeschooling. There are CollegePlus employees who work closely with Doug Phillips.

Perfect! Thanks for the connection, EF! :)

[hoipolloi]

Yes, I knew we called it CollegeMinus, but I was trying to figure out how it was interwoven with BCA. Not that it really matters, but I guess I haven't heard Voeller's name before. Thanks!

The Voellers were apparently members of BCA at one point although they were more deeply involved with ATI. The father left the marriage for his secretary. A daughter married one of the Niednagels: mytreasurepromise.com/howwemet.htm

Justin Voeller (Brad's brother?) showed up to comment on Jen's Gems 2-3 weeks ago. He didn't seem to think much of Jen & Eston:

justinvoeller Says:

December 8, 2013 at 2:35 pm

This is a bunch of bullshit. I can’t stand Doug personally. Never have liked the guy. Your article is flat out pathetic tho. While I too believe vision forum is a cult, I’d be more inclined to agree with you if your article wasn’t so riddled with lies. I went to the church for years growing up. Trust me, there was a lot more to the Jen Epstien story. When you’re so focused on bashing someone wrong as they may be, yet make stupid claims backed with no evidence that I know first hand are incorrect, you end up looking like a complete fool mate. Let me be clear, a STRONGLY dislike VF, but I don’t write lengthy articles online about it. Get a life, nobody gives a damn about your opinion if they actually know the truth. The people that believe this article only do so because they don’t know the truth of what really happened (which is just as bad as what you wrote in some cases), only what you tell them. So congrats, you just started your own little cult.

Probably more than you wanted to know...

[WonderingInWA]

The Voellers were apparently members of BCA at one point although they were more deeply involved with ATI. The father left the marriage for his secretary. A daughter married one of the Niednagels: mytreasurepromise.com/howwemet.htm

Justin Voeller (Brad's brother?) showed up to comment on Jen's Gems 2-3 weeks ago. He didn't seem to think much of Jen & Eston:

Probably more than you wanted to know...

Oh, that's right, and then Jen said something that she'd just been talking to Justin's mother, blah, blah, blah. Okay, full circle. There have been so many names tossed around I sort of lost track. Thanks!

[debrand]

They didn’t seem to care that Brad already had tons of life and ministry experience and knew exactly what he wanted to do with his life.

This part rubbed me wrong. Yes, life experiences are important but you don't get college credit for doing what everyone does...living. Does he think that colleges should award credits for his missionary work? However, he at least was able to have those experiences as a missionary. It sounds like some of his company's users won't ever put their education into practice.

I think that there is a place for long distance college courses but community colleges already offer some online courses. Yes, you have to take some classes on campus but, depending on your degree, you can take a lot of classes online. I am not certain why you would need a separate business to help you find these courses.

Isn't College Plus expensive? Can students get the Pell Grant?

[DomWackTroll]

Perry's wordless, heart-tugging tribute left me a bit teary-eyed. (J/K, I almost vommed.)

facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202758231455314&set=a.1073152027454.2012628.1185765038&type=1

[debrand]

Perry's wordless, heart-tugging tribute left me a bit teary-eyed. (J/K, I almost vommed.)

facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202758231455314&set=a.1073152027454.2012628.1185765038&type=1

I was going to ask if the commenter's whose name is Paul Deborah Yuck is a Fjer playing a prank but I discovered that there are indeed a Christian Reconstructionist family named Yuck.

.Here is a 'covenant marriage' between Caleb Yuck and Jordan Hammond.

ourfullhouse.com/31-marriage/698-caleb-yuck-and-jordan-hammond-wedding-photos.html

Cause the rest of us just have boring, normal marriages.

In this Kelly is the bride, Jordan's, dad

Kelly and Jordan stopped halfway down the aisle, where Caleb would come get Jordan from her father and mother after he was commissioned to "go get his bride" from his father.

[DomWackTroll]

I was going to ask if the commenter's whose name is Paul Deborah Yuck is a Fjer playing a prank but I discovered that there are indeed a Christian Reconstructionist family named Yuck.

.Here is a 'covenant marriage' between Caleb Yuck and Jordan Hammond.

ourfullhouse.com/31-marriage/698-caleb-yuck-and-jordan-hammond-wedding-photos.html

Cause the rest of us just have boring, normal marriages.

In this Kelly is the bride, Jordan's, dad

Oh, God, I'd forgotten about that one. The ice-cream server hat over the veil... I just can't...

ETA: The Yucks' family portrait painting looks like a North Korean propaganda poster. "Dear Leader makes everyone happy, at all times!"

facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201425809641502&set=a.1500403164366.69063.1662800163&type=1&theater

[Hane]

1. This is the first fundie wedding I've ever seen without an officiant. Wonder whether they bothered with a marriage license.

2. It would take a LOT for me to agree to change my surname to Yuck.

[Evil Feminist]

Here is a 'covenant marriage' between Caleb Yuck and Jordan Hammond.

ourfullhouse.com/31-marriage/698-caleb-yuck-and-jordan-hammond-wedding-photos.html

Cause the rest of us just have boring, normal marriages.

Guess us heathens don't really get married. No wonder we get divorced so much. Cuz we sure don't make any covenants (or promises or vows) when we get married. :roll:

1. This is the first fundie wedding I've ever seen without an officiant. Wonder whether they bothered with a marriage license.

I've seen two without officiants. And neither bothered with a marriage license. Because God is the author of marriage, not the ebil guberment. At another wedding, the bride's father (not a minister or anything) officiated, and they made a big deal over signing the family bible.

[debrand]

I know that the Pearls' children didn't have an official marriage license but I thought that Daddy Pearl was the officiant. At least the Pearl wedding sounded interesting. The Yuck wedding sounds boring but all the members of Vision Forum seem to have boring ceremonies with a lot of speeches.

[debrand]

I know that the Pearls' children didn't have an official marriage license but I thought that Daddy Pearl was the officiant. At least the Pearl wedding sounded interesting. The Yuck wedding sounds boring but all the members of Vision Forum seem to have boring ceremonies with a lot of speeches.

[Evil Feminist]

Isn't College Plus expensive? Can students get the Pell Grant?

Yes, or no. Depends on how resourceful the student is and how quickly they actually complete their degree. Its not impossible to get a degree for under $15,000.

They can get Pell grants or financial aid once they enroll in their accrediting college.

[Elinor]

This is waaaayyyy off topic, but Brad Voeller resigned from CollegePlus on Dec 16th. Apparently there was significant differences between him and the board of directors and executive team on strategy and planning. Hmm... if it wasn't for the timing and finding out how connected the Voellers were to BCA, I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

Where did you read that?

[AnnieC 305]

Here is a 'covenant marriage' between Caleb Yuck and Jordan Hammond.

ourfullhouse.com/31-marriage/698-caleb-yuck-and-jordan-hammond-wedding-photos.html

Cause the rest of us just have boring, normal marriages.

A covenant marriage is an actual thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_marriage

I know, I don't get it either.

(not breaking link because it's Wikipedia)

[SamuraiKatz]

Perry's wordless, heart-tugging tribute left me a bit teary-eyed. (J/K, I almost vommed.)

facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202758231455314&set=a.1073152027454.2012628.1185765038&type=1

Hmmm thanks. The quote from one of the interns about Doug Phillips is a Tool's use of a private air strip was pure gold. Not copying and pasting because I don't want to violate TOS.

If my last name was Yuck, I would change my name.

[DomWackTroll]

Hmmm thanks. The quote from one of the interns about Doug Phillips is a Tool's use of a private air strip was pure gold. Not copying and pasting because I don't want to violate TOS.

If my last name was Yuck, I would change my name.

So, we can't copy and paste from FB even if it's a public page? Not complaining, I just want to get it straight, because I know I've done it before!

[SamuraiKatz]

So, we can't copy and paste from FB even if it's a public page? Not complaining, I just want to get it straight, because I know I've done it before!

I am not sure. I wanted to err on the side of caution,

[NotALoserLikeYou]

You can't copy and paste only if it's from a private source.

[DomWackTroll]

I am not sure. I wanted to err on the side of caution,

Okay, thanks.

[hoipolloi]

As of 1:30 PM EST, that FB page is still public, including that inimitable post, so it may be quoted here.

When a FB is only visible to "friends," FJ requires the "friend" in the know to paraphrase or mention what's there on FJ, not quote it directly.

From FJ's TOU:

* Do NOT post private information about individuals. Private information includes information gleaned from private Facebook pages, private message boards and forums, and invite only blogs, UNLESS the individual in question verifies with an admin or media relations that posting such info here is ok. That is the only way such info is allowed. Unverified third party posting is absolutely unacceptable in all circumstances.

* Paraphrasing is allowed. If you are facebook friends with a fundie, you can say "I saw so and so is pregnant." You can't share pictures and a birth story. Treemom describing meeting Steve Maxwell at a conference is fine. It's a first person narrative of her own experience. A member posting Facebook conversation with a Fundie in which they are peppering the fundie with questions is not the same. There is no way of knowing if the person answering on the other end is even really the fundie, for example. It's not the same type of experience.

[nausicaa]

1. This is the first fundie wedding I've ever seen without an officiant. Wonder whether they bothered with a marriage license.

2. It would take a LOT for me to agree to change my surname to Yuck.

Yes--how does that work without an officiant? I'm assuming if a couple is so fundie that they think a minister is anti-Biblical, then they would most likely also have such a distrust of the government that they would not apply for a marriage license. Is this the case with the Pearls? Does anyone know of a situation with these couples in which one partner became very sick and went into the hospital? How did their spouse visit them? Do they not care about the tax break? (I'm assuming they feel the fewer taxes they pay to our heathen govt the better?) What if they wish to adopt?

Interesting that some religious couples have gone so far right that they now have to grapple with the same issues gay couples do...

[RosyDaisy]

In some states the lack of a marriage license doesn't mean the marriage is invalid. As long as there was an officiant and the intent to live as husband and wife the marriage is considered valid. This is not the same as common law marriage. Am I right, legal eagle FJ'S?

[RosyDaisy]

Also back in ye olden days, remote areas had circuit judges and preachers. A man went to the woman's father to ask for his permission to marry his daughter. If consent was given, then the couple was considered married. So the idea of no officiant isn't a new thing.

[nausicaa]

In some states the lack of a marriage license doesn't mean the marriage is invalid. As long as there was an officiant and the intent to live as husband and wife the marriage is considered valid. This is not the same as common law marriage. Am I right, legal eagle FJ'S?

Wow. I had no idea that a marriage like that would have any legal standing. I am always learning new things on this board!

Is it granted the identical rights to a standard (i.e., with license) marriage in those states? In terms of divorce, tax credits, things like that?

[RosyDaisy]

Yes. They have the exact same rights.