Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[uber frau]

From Cindy Kunsmen's (sp?) blog, Under Much Grace:

And from there, it was rather easy to find out how and why Botkin ended up in New Zealand. He became business partners, according to several sources, with Jim McCotter (member of the Council for National Policy --see note below), the founder of the cultic shepherding/discipleship group. They went off to NZ and purchased an ailing newspaper and television station to continue what McCotter called the “Media Mandate.†McCotter bought a seaside mansion in Christchurch, and Botkin named his home “Seven Arrows Ranch,†presumably for his quiverfull. Botkin became CEO for this group which also eventually acquired a magazine, that which the Western Conservatory (Botkin’s current "group" in the US -- see note below) calls an “international media conglomerate.†They published a newspaper three times per week and aired Christian programming. Within two years, all but the magazine did poorly, McCotter left New Zealand, and Botkin resigned his position in 2002. Though the archive for the New Zealand Media Group states that the Botkins emigrated to NZ, Botkin returned with his family to the US to appear among the reigning ranks at Vision Forum and Boerne Christian Assembly.

They don't realise their ideals are American, they think they're universal, or at least Christian .

[Jezebel]

They start at 10:30 am. He'd need to leave Dallas around 6:00-ish at the latest to get to Boerne in time, depending on how closely he adhered to traffic laws. Possibly not very, considering he wasn't using a seat belt.

But, according to the paper, the accident occurred sometime in the afternoon. So while he was headed home that Sunday, he wasn't racing back to make it in time for the service at BCA--looks like that's a dramatic flourish Dougie added himself.

[RosyDaisy]

If the "cougar's" actions were predatory, or directed towards minors, then it was a matter for the police.

This! IF the woman in question had sexual contact with underage boys, then she needs to be outed and locked up just like a male predator. Victim my ass! Again, I'm saying IF. At this point the only thing we are 100% sure of is Doug Phillips is a tool.

[uber frau]

But, according to the paper, the accident occurred sometime in the afternoon. So while he was headed home that Sunday, he wasn't racing back to make it in time for the service at BCA--looks like that's a dramatic flourish Dougie added himself.

Good Calvinists attend two services a Sunday.

[RachelB]

This! IF the woman in question had sexual contact with underage boys, then she needs to be outed and locked up just like a male predator. Victim my ass! Again, I'm saying IF. At this point the only thing we are 100% sure of is Doug Phillips is a tool.

And if her actions weren't predatory or directed toward minors, then not demonizing her is one of the most sensible decisions Doug Phillips ever made. I agree with Jen and T.W. that it's a problem for Doug to play favorites-- I just think that grace, forgiveness, and benefit of the doubt ought to be standard issue in situations where no one has been harmed.

Doug Phillips may be the tooliest tool who ever tooled. But I think Jen and T.W. are a pair of monkey wrenches themselves.

[RosyDaisy]

Another thing I just noticed in Doug's original obituary for M.B.:

"On his way home, he pulled out of a dangerous intersection and was hit by a car, killed instantly and ushered into the presence of his Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ."

Is it just me, or is that a really strange thing to say in an obituary for a friend? Not "he was killed in an accident at a dangerous intersection" but "he pulled out of a dangerous intersection," giving the deceased an active role in his own death.

No, I don't find it strange at all, and it doesn't mean the deceased tried to kill himself. I read it to mean he had an accident at a hazardous intersection. This was practically the same obit for my fundie great aunt who died a few years ago. The fundies I know love to be dramatic like that.

[WonderingInWA]

No, I don't find it strange at all, and it doesn't mean the deceased tried to kill himself. I read it to mean he had an accident at a hazardous intersection. This was practically the same obit for my fundie great aunt who died a few years ago. The fundies I know love to be dramatic like that.

I took the phrasing to steer the victim clear of anyone thinking he made a bad choice (which of course, he did by not wearing a seatbelt and running a stop sign). You know, you don't throw a dead man under a bus by making it look like he was irresponsible in his choices. By "he pulled out of a dangerous intersection", it implies he recognized it as a dangerous intersection and was making a conscious choice to remove himself from harm, like he was proactive in trying to be safe. Which of course he wasn't, but it sounds better anyway.

[RosyDaisy]

I guess what I'm trying to say is this woman shouldn't be treated any differently than a man would be if the roles are reversed.

[Drunkenbutterfly]

I'd like to hear from the Leclerc Brothers. They are filmmakers that were leg-humpers of Dougie's as well, and were faithful attendees at Dougie's film festival. Phillip Leclerc is married to Esther Zimmerman, and they went on the trip to Greece (as evidenced by public photos of themselves on their FB pages). Esther's brother is Tait Zimmerman, the one that begged for money to pay off his hospital bill from 5 years ago (and who went on to have 4 more kids afterward, despite his debt) and Dougie was quite instrumental in tapping the pocketbooks of VF fans for donations to the Zimmerman debt.

The ones who AREN'T speaking are speaking volumes. Especially Tait Zimmerman who is quite outspoken on his public FB page.

Where are you Leclercs and Zimmermans?

So, the Leclercs went to Greece, too. This weekend the "Builing a god-centered family" NCFIC-conference will take place in Alaska, feat. BigTait as a speaker. I guess Tait is talking a lot to Scott these days. :whistle:

On the side-note: Did anyone of you get the internship ad from Zimmerman, too? It was on FB a couple of months ago for only a week or so. Apparently, he was looking for an intern. He and his wife were looking for someone to show him how to be a godly manly man. Housing and small allowance provided. The internship was not for his RE-business, more read like a personal assistant "anything I don't want to do myself" ad (was sth like:"It is time for Lauren and me to look for an intern..."). Didn't take a screenshot and it was gone rather quickly. Can I say: Next ? Bit pompous, Tait, eh?

[WonderingInWA]

So, the Leclercs went to Greece, too. This weekend the "Builing a god-centered family" NCFIC-conference will take place in Alaska, feat. BigTait as a speaker. I guess Tait is talking a lot to Scott these days. :whistle:

On the side-note: Did anyone of you get the internship ad from Zimmerman, too? It was on FB a couple of months ago for only a week or so. Apparently, he was looking for an intern. He and his wife were looking for someone to show him how to be a godly manly man. Housing and small allowance provided. The internship was not for his RE-business, more read like a personal assistant "anything I don't want to do myself" ad (was sth like:"It is time for Lauren and me to look for an intern..."). Didn't take a screenshot and it was gone rather quickly. Can I say: Next ? Bit pompous, Tait, eh?

I wonder how Tait is sleeping at night with Dougie saving Tait's financial a$$ and Scott giving Tait support in his ministry in AK? Conflict of interest much, Tait? Hmmm.

I find Tait Zimmerman extremely offensive. I did not see his advertisement for an "intern" (i.e. minion/peon), but if he really said "it is time for" an intern, that just makes me sick. It sounds so self-deserving. Blech.

[Sola]

SOme of the comments on Jen's Gems are interesting but I don't know how much truth to assign to them. Like this one:

and

Well, in days gone by in England it was common for wealthy, influential aristocracy and for royals to sendtheir sons to be raised and taught 'manhood' in other ffamilies. And we know just how much Double thinks of himself as aristocracy.

As for the 'bombshell', not buying it. Was there a cougar? Possibly. Did Dougie shag her? Possibly. I suspect this reveal is to deflect, and slutshame. Always slutshame.

[nelliebelle1197]

The only thing I learned from the dropping of the "bombshell" was that a BCA has one sad, pretty woman member who lost a brother and that Jen and TW are awful, petty little people who are using the Tool King's fall to exact revenge on BCA members.

[Kate]

So "T. W. Easton" is naming names and posting photos of this woman while hiding behind a pseudonym himself.

Sure, that fair. :evil-eye:

(we can pretend the pseudonym is part of the whole "The names have been changed to protect the innocent. The names of the guilty have not," drama-header-thing, but it's still standard to note which names have been changed with the "not his/her real name" tag instead of just leaving it like a fictional. Idiots.)

[gustava]

Doug had an affair with someone-he assures everyone it was a woman. He stepped down from Vision Forum. The organization is now gone.

A site called Jen's Gems posted a story from an ex member of Doug's church. According to this person, Doug didn't prevent a married woman from coming on to numerous interns or sleeping with an 18 year old man. The woman lost a much younger brother in a tragic car accident. After his death she started to act out sexually. None of us know if this is true, it is just speculation from Jen Epstein and an unknown person. Jen detests Doug so much that she might not be the most reliable source.

Oh and apparently, Doug gathered all the great men among his cohorts to sleep over in a cabin to discuss the end of the world.

Good summary!

[gustava]

Here's my take: Doug knew a woman/women Biblically. One of them became pregnant. Doug got caught and left BCA. Once that happened, the knives came out and serious financial skulduggery was exposed. Doug will be lucky not to end up in jail.

[pomegranate82]

More via Bradrick! - Jordan Muela has shared something he tagged Petey in:

"Peter, I've shared my thoughts in the attached note, "With greater authority comes greater responsibility and pastors and ministry leaders have fundamentally different obligations that stem from the additional parties that are affected by their sin: The victim of the abuse. The family of the victim. People that were manipulated by the abuser in order to facilitate and hide the abuse. Emotionally and spiritually scarred congregants and/or ministry supporters. Donors, employees, ministry partners, the list goes on and on."

Attached note says the following:

"The LORD watches and is displeased, for there is no justice. He sees there is no advocate, He is shocked that no one intervenes." - Isaiah 59:15-16

Up until this point I've had very little first hand experience with abuse of any kind, whether it be physical, spiritual, sexual, etc. While I’m grateful for God’s mercy towards me personally, I also see more clearly how this personal inexperience led to a myopic view of the issue of abuse and how people respond to it.

I'm a skeptic by nature and I admit I've looked cynically at claims about things like pervasive rape culture, victim blaming and other other organized conspiracies that willfully excuse, tolerate or condone abuse. It wasn't so much the idea of abuse I unconsciously questioned, but rather the idea of widespread collusion amongst the various parties the victims sought justice from. The reasoning was - if the abuse really happened and a significant number of people knew about it, then why hasn't something been done?

My perspective has changed.

Below are some of the concepts I’ve found helpful in trying to understand how leaders and followers respond to allegations of abuse.

Why it’s Different When it Happens In the Church

While sex scandals are dime a dozen, there is a different, and particularly heinous way that victims are affected when the abuse was at the hands of a trusted pastor or Christian Leader.

I will be quoting extensively from Martin G. Selbrede’s article, “Liberty from Abuse†- originally published here on the Chalcedon website. Regarding the unique impact of abuse at the hands of Christian leader, Selbrede says:

“All such leaders evoke a profound trust among their supporters: each of them is seen as God's man doing God's work and being above reproach. The flock looks up to its shepherd and his authority. Consequently, when abuse arises, the victim's relationship with God is often mortally wounded. Victims with the courage to expose a powerful leader often pay a high price: they grow more isolated while the leader's supporters grow in solidarity. Mind-searing, incapacitating depression and post-traumatic stress syndrome are endemic among such victims. There are documented cases where the victims of clergy abuse committed suicide as the ecclesiastical tables were turned against them.â€

There is also the matter of how the body of Christ responds. The initial trauma of being preyed upon can be exponentially compounded when church bodies respond in a self-serving way that seeks to minimize the nature of the injustice and limit the impact of the scandal for the perpetrator and their supporters.

The Dark Side of Pastoral Abuse

Again quoting Selbrede from the same article, this time on common patterns among churches that fail to support victims and hold perpetrators accountable:

“Virtually everyone is aware of the abuses and subsequent cover-ups plaguing the Roman Catholic Church, where priests implicated in abusive conduct are quietly relocated to unsuspecting new congregations where the abuse often recurs. Modern evangelicalism in America has its own list of distinguished perpetrators who, once exposed, made tearful confessions to their supporters (via pulpit or television cameras or both). In virtually all cases, the restoration of the leader to his former station has been a dominant part of the evangelical package. The trappings of accountability are in the service of protecting the ministry under the guise of protecting the flock.â€

And further:

“The rickety engine of Churchianity stands idly by while the victim sinks under the growing burdens and expenses incurred by the perpetrator's and church's conduct, but leaps into action to support the perpetrator (whether a missionary, priest, pastor, or parachurch leader). The modern church shortcuts restitution and thus invalidates the injury inflicted upon the victim. The damage done to the victim is more severe than words can express or restitution can restore, often involving a crisis of faith, total isolation, loss of all hope, complete helplessness, a blocked future, and worse.â€

Attacking the Victim

Adapting the term from Dee Miller, Selbrede defines “Role Reversal†as the following:

“[T]houghts or behaviors that treat victims as perpetrators and perpetrators as victims ... what some psychologists call Reattribution of Blame. Turning the victim into a troublemaker and scapegoat saves an abuser's colleagues from feeling grief over their own betrayal and from having to take responsibility for the effects of his behavior and betrayal on others and the church. Such slander of the victim "is a form of murder" and works to discredit the victim by destroying their reputation and integrity.â€

Instances of abuse often expose widespread ignorance and inexperience amongst church leadership regarding what to do with both the victim and the perpetrator. Amidst this confusion, victims are often unable to defend or advocate for themselves, while the perpetrator quickly transitions into damage control mode, leveraging the full weight of their relationships, reputation and resources to contain (read: suppress) the situation.

Sadly one of the key factors that enables the “Role Reversal†behavior previously described is the fact that the victim very visibly bears the marks of the abuse. I don’t mean in the sense of some kind of physical evidence, but rather that the victim is obviously deeply disturbed, spiritually and emotionally. Victims bear the marks of trauma and often lack the ability to interpret and articulate how they were mistreated, making them prime targets for being discredited and even demonized by the their perpetrator and his/her supporters.

This behavior is of course ludicrous. If the married pastor gets one of the girls in youth group pregnant and hooked on meth, a congregant may rightly observe that the girl is an adulterous pregnant drug addict, but that fact is meaningless outside of the broader context of how she got that way. Furthermore, using the girls broken condition as a means of discrediting her testimony before the congregation is essentially using her trauma against her in order to withhold justice.

To be clear the meth peddling impregnating pastor is an extreme example. The same principle would equally apply for the young girl in the congregation that falls for special attention, promises of future marriage, children, etc. and ends up becoming the pastors long standing mistress. Such a girl would experience the fruit of being mentored in long term hypocrisy and one day wake up a very bitter and confused woman, realizing she’s had the prime years of her life snatched by the man she trusted most as her shepherd and pseudo-covenantal lover. Clearly it would be natural for a woman exploited this way to be spiritually confused and very distrusting of anything resembling male church authority. But again, this very reaction is the ideal ammunition for anyone wanting to discredit the woman’s claims against the very pastor who made her this way.

Yes, in both aforementioned scenarios the “victim†is guilty of significant wrongdoing, adultery and otherwise. But the point is that they were intentionally groomed for sexual exploitation by someone who leveraged their position as a representative of God to exploit them. This behavior is alternatively called clerical abuse or clergy malpractice and is criminalized in various statues. In my home state for example, the Texas penal code states clearly:

Title 5, chapter 22 Sec. 22.01 (b) A sexual assault under Subsection (a)(1) is without the consent of the other person if: 10) the actor is a clergyman who causes the other person to submit or participate by exploiting the other person's emotional dependency on the clergyman in the clergyman's professional character as spiritual adviser...

On top of all this is the fact that the same attributes that made the victim an ideal target for abuse, also handicap them in their pursuit of justice. Predators prey on the weak and vulnerable. The naive and foolish. Those least able to see through the transgressors manipulations and deceptions. And above all those least able to do anything about it when they do at last realize they were exploited. The perfect target.

Alienating the Victim

Presumably more common than out and out attacking the victim is simply ignoring them. When the injured party is making reputation destroying claims against a community leader, it’s not hard to see how former friends all of a sudden evaporate into thin air. Instead of a friend in need, the victim becomes a toxic liability whose story and motivations are questioned.

“Did that really happen? Are they just making this up?â€

“Could that even be possible? We’ve known [abuser] for years, he’s been a pillar of our community and we’ve been blessed by his teaching. Can we really trust [victim]?

This is how the unspoken pact of silence and alienation is made between the members of the community and former friends of the victim.

This turn of events is a watershed moment for victims as it reinforces the message of the perpetrator and his supports.

Go away. You are the problem. It would be better if you didn’t exist.

And in a twisted way that line of thinking is accurate. If the victim would simply go away the church and ministry could go back to business as usual. There are multiple documented cases of victims who were denied justice choosing to end their life rather than continue to live with the burden of their unresolved abuse.

We will never know how many stories of abuse have gone unreported. How many pastors and ministry leaders we’re caught red handed but managed to silence their victims and their families.

What we do know is that it takes an incredibly brave victim to stand up to an authority they we're taught never to talk back to and to speak out when no one wants to hear what they have to say.

Supporting Victims and Holding Perpetrators Accountable

First and foremost victims of abuse need to be heard.

Don’t run them out of town, don’t treat them like a liability, don’t make them feel like a human stain.

Listen to their testimony. See if it has merit. Help them get help.

If their claims are true, seek justice. If their claims are false, seek justice.

“Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.†- Leviticus 19:15

Realize you may be only person that listens to them. The worse the accusations the more people will pass the buck. If you've never seen this in action, understand it's like watching to see who'd like to volunteer to attach themselves to a bomb headed to the heart of their church and community. Not a lot of takers. Bravery melts like wax and procedural arguments to make it someone elses to help multiply logarithmically.

Justice Brings Healing for Both the Victim and the Perpetrator

With greater authority comes greater responsibility and pastors and ministry leaders have fundamentally different obligations that stem from the additional parties that are affected by their sin: The victim of the abuse. The family of the victim. People that were manipulated by the abuser in order to facilitate and hide the abuse. Emotionally and spiritually scarred congregants and/or ministry supporters. Donors, employees, ministry partners, the list goes on and on.

When church leaders try to hide abuse and put it away quietly so as to “protect the families involvedâ€, they are in fact participating in the fraud and enabling the abuser by affirming his ability to prey on the weak with only nominal consequences.

No doubt many church leaders that mishandle these situations are trying to act in good faith. When the perpetrator is caught and is essentially begging for their life, it’s hard to imagine a long time co-elder, board member or employee not having sympathy for them.

After all, this is the man they've labored with for so many years, surely he understands what he’s done and is repentant.

And that’s where a botch job begins.

A best case scenario involves brief sin, quick repentance and acceptance of complete transparency from the get go.

A worst case scenario involves long term, systematic abuse and significant manipulation of the very checks and balances meant to prevent such a thing in the first place. The more brazen and prolonged the history of abuse, the more likely the abuser had ample time, motivation and ability to surround himself with lesser men that were intended to provide the illusion of accountability.

In a worse case scenario, the “recovery team†was hand picked by the perpetrator long ago and are unknowingly acting as his shield, providing the pretense of due process for a man they were never capable of holding accountable in the first place. In situations where where prolonged, serious sin is involved, other leaders must realize that a man typically doesn't go from years of orchestrating deception and abuse to being broken and contrite overnight. Deceiving everyone around you and engaging in comprehensive hypocrisy for years on end is as soul warping as any drug addiction. And like the addict, the perpetrator undoubtedly had countless chances to repent over the years.

The natural duties of any christian leader serve to only further condemn them when they walk in unrepentant sin. Preaching sermons, marriage counseling, mentoring youth, disciplining members, donor fundraising, officiating weddings, etc. etc…

When the work of the holy spirit is rejected year after year, and when the crushing weight of the perpetrators hypocrisy and destruction didn't break, then the odds are much higher that at a minimum you’re dealing with someone who has become accustomed to living outside of reality. People like this need serious help to shatter the deep seated self-delusions that they have so successfully projected on to themselves and those around them for years. This kind of help may very likely not exist within the congregation or ministry staff that is involved.

Proper accountability leadership admits when it’s outmatched and brings in outside help. Failed accountability leadership clings to the illusion of control over the situation even when the circumstances are spiraling out of control.

How many Christian leaders have resisted this process to their own shame and detriment? How many leaders after being caught did everything within their power to orchestrate a cover up and control the story. It never ends well.

Seeking Justice is the Highest Act of Love for Everyone Involved

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.†- Edmund Burke

Those who bury their head in the sand are showing hatred toward everyone involved.

Those who remain silent because they fear the wrath of the accused more than the wrath of God actually join the abuser in oppressing the victim by forcing them to bear the double burden of both the abuse as well as the shame and damage of injustice. Selbrede describes this well:

“...the church turns the victim into a pariah while retaining and protecting its spiritual leader. By circling the wagons, that church has renewed the assault on the victim's personhood on an exponentially larger scale compared to the original transgression of boundaries.â€

True shepherds warn the sheep as Paul did in Timothy 3:5-6, “... Avoid such people. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions.â€

Silence allows the victim to be treated as some kind of jezebelian parasite worthy of shunning, while the leader is treated as a wounded warrior who “needs our love, support and forgiveness now more than everâ€.

Those who know evil is taking place have a duty before God to speak up. Don’t let your silence allow a predator to be exalted in his pseduo-contrition while the victim is collectively erased from the memory of their community. Again, Selbrede:

“To protect the transgressor is to harm the victim (and often spawn future victims). R. J. Rushdoony often put it this way: mercy to the perpetrator is hatred toward the victim.â€

Don’t play the shame game with those who break the silence. Don’t obstruct those seeking justice.

“I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign LORD. I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice.†- Ezekiel 34:15-16

Bradrick! says in response "This is the single most helpful piece written on the subject that I have seen. I pray that everyone I dearly love close to the current situation reads this carefully, prayerfully, and thoughtfully. Psalm 82:2-4 How long will you judge unjustly, And show partiality to the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy; Free them from the hand of the wicked."

[nokidsmom]

On the side-note: Did anyone of you get the internship ad from Zimmerman, too? It was on FB a couple of months ago for only a week or so. Apparently, he was looking for an intern. He and his wife were looking for someone to show him how to be a godly manly man. Housing and small allowance provided. The internship was not for his RE-business, more read like a personal assistant "anything I don't want to do myself" ad (was sth like:"It is time for Lauren and me to look for an intern..."). Didn't take a screenshot and it was gone rather quickly. Can I say: Next ? Bit pompous, Tait, eh?

I sure hope that no interns took this one on and it was taken down because of backlash rather than they found some poor naive slave intern.

[Becoming_Me]

I sure hope that no interns took this one on and it was taken down because of backlash rather than they found some poor naive slave intern.

Here's an idea...hire someone! But maybe that is too normal for someone like Zimmerman.

[hoipolloi]

Will give Jordan Muela a small amount of credit for actually acknowledging the victim & her family.

But after reading his screed and the comments before & after its posting, I still am left wondering what Susan Bradrick (mother of Peter) is crying about?

ETA: Tait Zimmerman is obviously a Tool-In-Waiting. He's got the basics down, particularly fleecing the sheeple.

[pomegranate82]

Possibly just that Petey is very upset about the fall of his mentor and the manner in which he was spoken to?? I thought the article was interesting as it calling what happened actual abuse and seems to be at pains to point out the damage that the behaviour does to the victim. It is also interesting in that it talks of the abusive pastor/clergyman surrounding himself with "lesser men". Have they realised their power was never real?

"The more brazen and prolonged the history of abuse, the more likely the abuser had ample time, motivation and ability to surround himself with lesser men that were intended to provide the illusion of accountability."

[nokidsmom]

Here's an idea...hire someone! But maybe that is too normal for someone like Zimmerman.

But...but....this is to show some poor intern how to be one of the godly manly menz! Surely that should be compensation enough. The pearls of wisdom are beyond just money. :roll:

Just another

[SheWhoIsObeyed]

Delurking to link to Nathaniel Darnell's response.

perseveronews.com/when-soldiers-fall-responding-to-the-news-about-vision-forum/

Apparently he knew all about DougieTool's sin of PRIDE, but nary a word (as my Granny would note) about the victim. I couldn't finish reading this drivel.

[MamaJunebug]

pomegranate, thank you for reposting the essay. Didn't read it closely, but at least it seems to be bringing a modicum of common sense and even some authentic sociological facts to the fore.

It occurs to me that people who veer miles around established, caring churches to join up with demanding, restrictive groups like BCA are looking for more than God; they also want extreme structure, attention and to not have to think very hard. No pejorative, just the facts as I see them.

The Epsteins were military veterans and had enjoyed their lives in uniform as much as you can when you've been in combat or trained for same (let's suppose that the Mr. had some major PTSD/rage issues). I'm guessing that most welcoming congregations who offer congregational worship, opportunities for friendship and networking, and referrals to good social and family service agencies would interest the Epsteins not. at. all.

Let's not talk about them, let's talk about the X family. The Xes are looking for worship, guaranteed community (friendship and networking), and someone to tell them what's right, what's wrong, and how to fix themselves, all in one tidy, convenient package.

Thus are the BCAs, and the cults of the world, formed and supported handsomely with members' time, money and lives.

The problems are threefold:

1 - the innocent X children are dragged into the resulting vortices of misery

2 - the Doug Phillipses of the world gain more money, power and ground to try to inflict themselves on the world at large

3 - the X family and those among them aren't hearing the facts of the Law and the relieving news of the Gospel, and instead of living their lives in joy and service, are .... mired.

That's all. In other news, guess who else has an intern? The Rev. Dr. Marcus Serven. It's an epidemic.

[Hane]

Yep, MamaJ. People want the easy way out, without the stigma of admitting it. God forbid that they should fall short of the old Puritan work ethic, which condemns slackers, sensuality, and FUN.

In this country, ascetics and conservative Christian[tm][/tm] believers are all too readily ceded the moral high ground--as if No Non-Marital Sex and Not Being On Welfare automatically make one a good person.

And let me not get started on the hair-splitting fetish that has taken over modern Calvinist "reformed" churches. It makes old-fashioned Catholic overthinking look like kindergarten.

[pomegranate82]

An interesting response from someone to the big article I copied and pasted before. From Braderick's page again:

"I think possibly there is information still being gathered and compiled. This is a huge situation. Far bigger then anyone can imagine. Especially if crimes have been committed they can just reveal all the details at once. I think the element of fear is starting to wear off and people are just staring to come forward. Remember we are talking about a man who was in a position of leadership on many levels. This is not your typical situation."

I did suspect there were investigations ongoing but this is intriguing! In some ways I hope it's just severe financial fiddling as I really don't care about all the money that people of this mindset ploughed in to this ministry. It was probably better spent on costumes than on spreading the tool's "vision", but on the other hand I do find that scenario quite dull.