Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[salex]

Perhaps Matt Chancey sent Doug a driver from Africa, 'cause you know it's even more fun if you use a black person and pretend you're Robert E. Lee (except in a car).

Is he planning to use the gun to light his cigar OR is the guy with the gun hoping to accidently blow off Chancey's knee cap? Honestly, aren't you supposed to hold the gun pointed away from the others in the picture?

[ILoveJellybeans]

So Hero and family left the church in January, a month before Doug privately resigned?

Maybe he was found out-did she tell her parents and they were furious? Did someone catch them in the act? Did she leave by choice because she finally had the courage to tell Doug to stop, or did Doug force her to leave after someone found out and try to throw her under the bus.

[SamuraiKatz]

FB commenter Ann Landley tells Peter, "Thank you for being a manly man!"

Honey, you're just not getting it, are you?

Oh that makes me want to hurl! :oops:

[Bethie42]

Interesting when you combine the possibility that Doug doesn't have a driver's license with the secret meeting about the end times. I can't imagine Doug going Jim Jones but if the information on Jen's Gems(and I have my doubts) is correct, it does sound disturbing.

Now Dom Wack Troll has me wondering if Beall drove herself to the hospital when she was in labor.

Wasn't spring of 2008 the beginning/worsening of the financial crisis? I was a teenager at the time and didn't get a lot of the news at first, but by later 2008 my family was pretty sure there was going to be some major societal meltdown. We also prepped for Y2K (as a small child at the time, I did not understand most of it, but I remember hearing my parents' audio tapes or other publications from [Reconstructionist] Gary North warning about Y2K, and dubbing him 'Scary Gary' to my parents' amusement).

Mercifully neither Y2K nor the predicted societal collapse occurred. However I still think that immense societal damage is possible in a worst-case scenario involving massive financial problems, or any disruption of the electric grid. If Doug's secret meeting was to do with possibilities of that sort, I can sympathize a great deal with people getting sucked into that because of fear for their families. Obviously he may have had some sort of wacky end-times stuff mixed in, and I'm sure it could have just been another way to control people, by fear.

I think there is a very fine line between being aware of dangerous situations that could develop and trying to protect your family from that, versus holing up and readying the firearms in paranoia of what could occur. It sounds like Doug has gone to the second extreme.

I still have somewhat of a 'prepping' mindset, but I am so wary now of anything like that that is accompanied by religious fervor of the sort that Phillips championed. It would be fascinating to know just what occurred at that secret meeting.

[danvillebelle]

So. The only hint on the Vision Forum page that they are completely closing down is the "Liquidation Sale" this week, 60% off everything. The links to the now-defunct VF Ministries and SAICFF are gone. I wonder when the final swan song will hit the blog.

I'm also wondering what is going to happen to the rights for the books they've published - which includes Jasmine Baucham's Joyfully At Home, So Much More, and Passionate Housewives Desperate for God. Methinks this is one reason Stacy is pissed off and Jennie is saying nothing at all.

[thoughtful]

Why does Doug the Tool not have a driver's license? What is wrong with him that he wouldn't? He used to have one, as wasn't he the one who claimed to have driven some famous old minister around DC (Billy Graham???).

Yes:

christiannews.net/2012/10/18/billy-grahams-staff-removed-page-labeling-mormonism-a-cult-after-grahams-endorsement-of-romney/

[debrand]

Doug seems to have a bigger than life personality that covered some deeply offensive beliefs. One positive outcome of his stepping down is that I don't think that the other members of the group can hide their racism anymore.

[Marian the Librarian]

Katie (The Sane Cousin) Botkin has weighed in:

kbotkin.com/2013/11/30/psychopaths-testosterone-leadership-patriarchy/

Charisma, confidence and dominance also come in handy when you’re leading a for-profit movement supporting patriarchy. This isn’t a big surprise — I wrote something two years ago outlining how male sociopaths can blend into patriarchal movements in particular, noting that “the sociopath will probably admit to anything he’s caught red-handed at. He may be extremely eloquent at expressing his regret and will pad his Christian image with confessions of sin. But watch to see if he actually apologizes to his victims and, if so, how he treats them an hour later, or a year later.†In re-reading this, I’m reminded that as far as anyone knows, Doug Phillips has not apologized to the woman in question, or mentioned her in any way.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

This is possibly the best telenovela I've ever seen.

[SamuraiKatz]

Katie (The Sane Cousin) Botkin has weighed in:

kbotkin.com/2013/11/30/psychopaths-testosterone-leadership-patriarchy/

I wonder what the sane Botkins think of Geoff, Doug, Scott et al?

[Jezebel]

You know, I had a half-sibling that I didn't even know about as a kid. Any family relationships outside of the norm are often covered up or "reinvented" in fundieland due to shaming. It's possible this is something other than a sibling relationship.

So I'm not the only one who thought about that possibility right away?

The sister is currently 40, and her brother would have been about 25, now. Sure, really wide age spreads between siblings do happen, but in this context, and given her sudden, radical change in behavior right after his death? It's interesting.

But whatever the full story is, the fact that she didn't seem to get any help in dealing with that loss really stands out. For someone to suddenly start acting in a completely different manner, and acting in a highly inppropriate, even taboo, way (given their social group's mores) tells me she's suffered a profound shock, and needs help to work through it. But instead of recognizing that this is someone in deep trouble, her fellow church members branded her as the guilty, sinning, "cougar."

[ILoveJellybeans]

I hope she is okay. Theres not much mental health resources available in fundieland, and shes not getting the help for her issues because everyone is too busy condemning her for her sexual behaviour.

[SamuraiKatz]

So I'm not the only one who thought about that possibility right away?

The sister is currently 40, and her brother would have been about 25, now. Sure, really wide age spreads between siblings do happen, but in this context, and given her sudden, radical change in behavior right after his death? It's interesting.

But whatever the full story is, the fact that she didn't seem to get any help in dealing with that loss really stands out. For someone to suddenly start acting in a completely different manner, and acting in a highly inppropriate, even taboo, way (given their social group's mores) tells me she's suffered a profound shock, and needs help to work through it. But instead of recognizing that this is someone in deep trouble, her fellow church members branded her as the guilty, sinning, "cougar."

The relationship with her brother may have been used as a lever to keep her toeing the line. With Brother gone, there is no reason to behave in the prescribed Vision Forum way anymore.

This could also be a case of accusing someone of witchcraft(Salem witch trials, anyone?) This person may be completely innocent of any and all accusations against her. All these interns/men had the hots for her because she is rather pretty so the cries of witch!witch!....I mean cougar! go to all and sundry. I'm leaning more towards this scenario...than any other.

[SamuraiKatz]

I did post a reply on Jen's Blog. It's awaiting moderation. We will see if it makes the cut. I used my usual nom de plume :-)

Just in case it gets deleted:

All of this smacks of the Salem Witch Trials. Instead of accusing with Witch! Witch! I'm hearing Cougar! Cougar! Cotton Mather much, Mr. Eston? You need a history refresher course, sir. This lady looks like somone in need of compassion and some psychiatric help. Not judgement and scorn. Those VF "Men" who were so sure their patriarchal teachings would sin proof their sons sure headed in to freak out mode! They should all take a step back and check their own hearts and motives before the cries of Witch! Witch...oh yeah Cougar! Cougar! ring forth.

Another recommendation watch M. Night Shamalan's "The Village." There are lots of correlations between VF/ATI and the plot of this movie.

[Marian the Librarian]

I wonder what the sane Botkins think of Geoff, Doug, Scott et al?

Well, what do you know - under the category of interesting timing, Clan Botkin has updated their "About the Team" page on westernconservatory.com. Is there an impending takeover of VF in the works?

Geoff's bio:

Since his children have known him, he’s been an artist, cultural analyst, political consultant, documentary filmmaker, writer and lecturer. Before that he worked on seismic oil exploration exploding dynamite, and for a season with ducks and duck hunters as a wildlife biologist.

westernconservatory.com/about/team

[Hane]

A bit OT: I just finished reading The Book Thief and seeing the movie. Scary how many similarities BCA life and that of Nazi Germany have: everyone must look the right way, act the right way, dress the right way, say the right things, hang out with the right people--even if you KNOW they're wrong. Because God help you if you don't. Throwing someone under the bus may be your only key to survival.

[kpmom]

Geoff's bio:

All that's missing is, "He is the most interesting man in the world." :roll:

[SamuraiKatz]

Well, what do you know - under the category of interesting timing, Clan Botkin has updated their "About the Team" page on westernconservatory.com. Is there an impending takeover of VF in the works?

Geoff's bio:

westernconservatory.com/about/team

They look so...normal. Almost Brady Bunch-esque. Interesting they've adopted a couple of extra Noors.

[DomWackTroll]

I'm not sure how to feel about this, because when Jen points out that if she or any other female "commoner" at BCA had behaved the way ______ behaved (allegedly), they would have been treated very differently, she is telling the truth. We've seen that a million times.

* Beall and Jennie can go to college, but common women can't.

* James and Stacy can get divorced and remarried, but common people can't.

* The Phillips children can travel to sophisticated and/or exotic locales, but your children need nothing but frugal "home living."

* Perry C.'s wife and daughters can expose their arms and legs because they're "fully steeped in the Word," but you're not a mature enough Christian yet, so modesty.

I'm certainly not saying that this woman did anything "bad" or wrong. I'm just saying that we know that the elite in this movement do have a different set of rules than everyone else. The saddest part of all is that if ______ were not one of the "cool kids" she might have gotten the help she needed.

[debrand]

A bit OT: I just finished reading The Book Thief and seeing the movie. Scary how many similarities BCA life and that of Nazi Germany have: everyone must look the right way, act the right way, dress the right way, say the right things, hang out with the right people--even if you KNOW they're wrong. Because God help you if you don't. Throwing someone under the bus may be your only key to survival.

I keep looking at Joshua Phillips twitter to see if he makes a comment about his family situation. He has been more active lately but hasn't really said anything interesting. However, he apparently really enjoyed The Book Thief. I wonder if he noticed the same things that you did

Jesse Winton â€@jrandallw 30 Nov

"The Book Thief" is easily the best movie I've seen in the past 2 years. Really a fabulous movie. @BookThiefMovie

Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand

Joshua Phillips â€@jtitusp 30 Nov

@jrandallw Really enjoyed it as well, much more than expected. Thought Sophie Nélisse was superb.

[DomWackTroll]

Well, what do you know - under the category of interesting timing, Clan Botkin has updated their "About the Team" page on westernconservatory.com. Is there an impending takeover of VF in the works?

Geoff's bio:

westernconservatory.com/about/team

To whom? The Grand Sultan Most Nonexistent of Imaginarystan? Christ, he's delusional.

[Hane]

I keep looking at Joshua Phillips twitter to see if he makes a comment about his family situation. He has been more active lately but hasn't really said anything interesting. However, he apparently really enjoyed The Book Thief. I wonder if he noticed the same things that you did

debrand, your lips to God's ears! People like the Doug Brigade love to fantasize about being the heroic guys who hid or liberated the Jews, but we know they probably would have gone-along-to-get-along just like most of the population.

[DomWackTroll]

Nadia's page: "Western Conservatory's ministering angel of many mercies for people who have technical questions or don’t know why their mp3s haven’t yet arrived in the mail. When not stretching out her hands to the poor and technologically needy..."

...but not the real poor and needy. That would be gross.

[Palimpsest]

I did post a reply on Jen's Blog. It's awaiting moderation. We will see if it makes the cut. I used my usual nom de plume :-)

Just in case it gets deleted:

All of this smacks of the Salem Witch Trials. Instead of accusing with Witch! Witch! I'm hearing Cougar! Cougar! Cotton Mather much, Mr. Eston? You need a history refresher course, sir. This lady looks like somone in need of compassion and some psychiatric help. Not judgement and scorn. Those VF "Men" who were so sure their patriarchal teachings would sin proof their sons sure headed in to freak out mode! They should all take a step back and check their own hearts and motives before the cries of Witch! Witch...oh yeah Cougar! Cougar! ring forth.

Another recommendation watch M. Night Shamalan's "The Village." There are lots of correlations between VF/ATI and the plot of this movie.

Oh, well done! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I can picture the steam coming out of TW's ears as I type. He will delete it and call you an evil harlot. :lol: :lol:

[linnea27]

If the "cougar's" actions were predatory, or directed towards minors, then it was a matter for the police. If it wasn't predatory, then I am not seeing much need for church elders to intervene (full disclosure: I am not at all religious though so I am not aware of how normal churches operate). Either way, I am not seeing this as a "bombshell" that makes Doug Phillips Is A Tool look any worse than he already does.