Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[hoipolloi]

I know I play devil's advocate way too much over Eston. I just dislike people assuming that he is trustworthy when I think he has a major axe to grind and is a patriarcal asshole himself. I doubt Doug has an ounce of real compassion in him.

I have to come back to my misgivings, though. TW is leading a witch hunt here against Doug who richly deserves it. This woman has got caught up in it and is being publicly shamed by TW Eston. Of course, she may be horrible and guilty of all that TW accuses her of doing. However . . . flirting with men and failing to maintain "distance from men" may not be in the best of taste but are not crimes. An older married woman having consensual sex with an 18 year old may be adultery but is not a crime.

I also hate labeling women as cougars. There is still a double standard when it comes to women having relationships with younger men, even when the man is well over the age of consent.

ITA with your points here & am glad you're dissecting these "revelations."

[Marian the Librarian]

I was (selfishly*) pleased to see a comment from David Clohessy of SNAP (Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests) on Jen's Gems this morning (*as he is echoing what I've been saying all along - bring in the law!!):

David Clohessy Says:

December 2, 2013 at 9:10 am

“to my knowledge nothing ever happened that could be considered criminal. . .â€

With all due respect, Johnny, you’re probably not a prosecutor. . . so this is not your call to make. . .the experienced, independent professionals in law enforcement are the only ones who can determine whether criminal laws were broken and/or whether criminal charges can be levied. . .

[Bethie42]

The Darnell tribute article had a link to a piece written by Jamie Billings--apparently Michael had more than one sister.

visionarydaughters.com/2007/11/the-preciousness-of-a-brother

I don't see anything too earth-shattering; there's no mention made of any other siblings. Jamie and Michael were 18 months apart and were very close.

I was all set to write out how strange it must have been for Michael Billings to be such a huge advocate of following the Law (he was a fan of many Reconstructionist authors), and see his own sister behaving inappropriately if she indeed did so….but then I realized that she only started acting this way after his death.

I find it interesting that the jensgems article says 'immediately' after his death. It would be also interesting to hear a bit more about Michael's relationship with his older sister J. If she had been close with him, it must have shocked the congregation even more if she didn't seem to mourn him but immediately started pursuing the men of the church. It's easy to imagine her acting out as a reaction to the trauma of losing her brother.

I wonder if there was some sort of tangible restraint on her actions that was lifted at Michael's death?

Was KISA at BCA during the post-2007 timeframe? So many questions might be answered if he would grace us with his presence again…. :P

[hoipolloi]

Meanwhile, back at Petey's FB page, we have this comment from a DP/VF true believer:

My burning question is: what is the chronology here? Was your confrontation with this mentor (don't we all know who we're talking about?) prior to his public confession and resignation, or after? This is a crucial question to me. He may have still been putting up a prideful defensiveness at the time of your meeting with him, and has since then softened, therefore rendering his public confession a sincere one. I am inclined to believe his words on its face and give him the benefit of the doubt. It is apparent that he had lived a duplicitous life in recent years, and that pride had grown to a point that it resulted in a crashing fall. That means that layers of pride are now being stripped off and it takes time. The Holy Spirit usually works progressively to transform our hearts, as DP has taught before so well. If anything, his life is shining example of the very doctrines he taught so well. His own words are coming back to haunt and convict him. I still stand by every word that he taught, because they were truth straight from scripture. The man is not the message at times, yet his life in every way is still illustrative of the doctrine of man's depravity which he propounded.

36 minutes ago · Like

The guy's blood must have turned to Kool-Aid.

:o :shock: :pink-shock:

[Joan of Snarc]

Really wish it would have been the drugs and arms-trading scenario....

:roll:

[debrand]

The Darnell tribute article had a link to a piece written by Jamie Billings--apparently Michael had more than one sister.

visionarydaughters.com/2007/11/the-preciousness-of-a-brother

I don't see anything too earth-shattering; there's no mention made of any other siblings. Jamie and Michael were 18 months apart and were very close.

I was all set to write out how strange it must have been for Michael Billings to be such a huge advocate of following the Law (he was a fan of many Reconstructionist authors), and see his own sister behaving inappropriately if she indeed did so….but then I realized that she only started acting this way after his death.

I find it interesting that the jensgems article says 'immediately' after his death. It would be also interesting to hear a bit more about Michael's relationship with his older sister J. If she had been close with him, it must have shocked the congregation even more if she didn't seem to mourn him but immediately started pursuing the men of the church. It's easy to imagine her acting out as a reaction to the trauma of losing her brother.

I wonder if there was some sort of tangible restraint on her actions that was lifted at Michael's death?

Was KISA at BCA during the post-2007 timeframe? So many questions might be answered if he would grace us with his presence again…. :P

She might have had motherly feelings toward her younger brother. Many of the stay at home daughters take on a parental role toward their younger siblings.

Hopefully, someone has given her a warning that she is being discussed by name on Jen Gem's site. My guess is that this is coming out to draw attention away from Doug

[Marian the Librarian]

My guess is that this is coming out to draw attention away from Doug.

I couldn't agree more. Let's shine the spotlight back on Doug, and his admitted extramarital relationship with the young woman he's known and exploited for many years.

I am very glad to know that Hero and her family are no longer members of this snake pit of a "church." Why anyone in their right mind would participate in this big bucket of crazy for more than a hot second is beyond me.

[nelliebelle1197]

This. Without more information about the young man who was cited in the post, it's hard to know if this is a case of consenting adults or a predatory woman. I doubt that the young men in this church were any more clued in about how to spot and stand up to inappropriate behavior than the young women, which also leads to questions about the extent to which he could consent. However, it does seem like the woman in question created a hostile environment at BCA, which made many members uncomfortable. Given that other women had been shamed for doing much less, it makes one wonder.

It seems like BCA wanted to give the image that it was a "church on the hill," where all the men were manly protectors, the women demure and submissive, and the children innocent and obiedient. Instead, it's looking more like a criminal organization, where certain higher ups could take liberties with the rank and file. It's obvious that the extreme sheltering advocated by Doug Phillips is a tool grooms children to be clueless victims.

I don't think anything is obvious. TW Eston is obviously a bitter ex-church member, just like Jen Epstein, with no clear lens. A criminal organization? Seriously? The only thing obvious from any of this is that the Epsteins are nuts and Doug Phillips is a tool.

[Cleopatra7]

A commenter on Jen's Gems said that Bradrick was Doug Phillips is a tool's driver, because the tool has no driver's license. If this is true, I don't see how Bradrick could have been blindsided by anything. He would have had to know everything as it happened, as he would have been present at the scene of the crime, so to speak (or shortly after or before anything happened).

ETA: The more I think about it, the more I'm not sure what to think about the "bombshell." Without context it's hard to know if the woman's actions were merely inappropriate, a cry for help, or being a predator, especially given the bizarre culture that reigned at BCA. The commenters at Jen's Gems know what's being referenced, but we don't, which makes parsing everything out difficult. I do think that BCA and all incarnations of VF served to feed into Doug Phillips is a tool's lust for power, money, and whatever else, and that when this is all over, long-term financial mismanagement will certainly come to light.

[snickerz]

If "the young woman with whom Doug Phillips had an inappropriate relationship with" & her family left in January, and DP resigned from the church board in February, he was privately caught/privately confessed or whatever you want to call it way back then. The VF bigwigs were going to just sweep it under the rug, so to speak, and pretend that all was well in VF-land. Something else happened in October, or someone with power over him found out about it and forced the public confession. My money's still on, well, money being involved. I think DP had an "inappropriate relationship" with VFM's money, and perhaps that's what was discovered in October.

Petey - I think Petey knew about things for a long time, and didn't dare speak up because Dougie was his idol. Now, he's trying to cover his own a$$ and proclaim his own innocence. I don't buy it, Peter. You knew about Dougie's shenanigans, and you helped cover up his sins. You are complicit in this. :naughty:

[SamuraiKatz]

A commenter on Jen's Gems said that Bradrick was Doug Phillips is a tool's driver, because the tool has no driver's license. If this is true, I don't see how Bradrick could have been blindsided by anything. He would have had to know everything as it happened, as he would have been present at the scene of the crime, so to speak (or shortly after or before anything happened).

ETA: The more I think about it, the more I'm not sure what to think about the "bombshell." Without context it's hard to know if the woman's actions were merely inappropriate, a cry for help, or being a predator, especially given the bizarre culture that reigned at BCA. The commenters at Jen's Gems know what's being referenced, but we don't, which makes parsing everything out difficult. I do think that BCA and all incarnations of VF served to feed into Doug Phillips is a tool's lust for power, money, and whatever else, and that when this is all over, long-term financial mismanagement will certainly come to light.

Doug Phillips had a chaufuer? Really? Hard to sneak around on your wife when you can't drive yourself. What gives with that?

[salex]

A commenter on Jen's Gems said that Bradrick was Doug Phillips is a tool's driver, because the tool has no driver's license. If this is true, I don't see how Bradrick could have been blindsided by anything. He would have had to know everything as it happened, as he would have been present at the scene of the crime, so to speak (or shortly after or before anything happened).

ETA: The more I think about it, the more I'm not sure what to think about the "bombshell." Without context it's hard to know if the woman's actions were merely inappropriate, a cry for help, or being a predator, especially given the bizarre culture that reigned at BCA. The commenters at Jen's Gems know what's being referenced, but we don't, which makes parsing everything out difficult. I do think that BCA and all incarnations of VF served to feed into Doug Phillips is a tool's lust for power, money, and whatever else, and that when this is all over, long-term financial mismanagement will certainly come to light.

Why does Doug the Tool not have a driver's license? What is wrong with him that he wouldn't? He used to have one, as wasn't he the one who claimed to have driven some famous old minister around DC (Billy Graham???). He lives in Texas, NOT New York City--- people in Texas DRIVE, long distances, often. I don't live in TX but know the drive from San Antonio to Boerne....

If it was just because he was so busy working / talking on the phone that he couldn't take time away to drive, why wouldn't he have a driver's license? I find this "dainty morsel" to be quite interesting.

[gustava]

Why would Doug Phillips is a Tool not have a driver's license? DWI??

[debrand]

Why would Doug Phillips is a Tool not have a driver's license? DWI??

Now I am curious, do the rest of the adults in his family-Beall and Joshua-have a driver's license? Did the interns grocery shop for the family or was that the duty of the nannies and housekeepers?

[Sobeknofret]

I think Doug has a driver's license. Having a chauffeur was just probably a way of making himself more important than he is, not because he can't drive himself.

[Bethie42]

Why would Doug Phillips is a Tool not have a driver's license? DWI??

My first thought is that, to some fundies, having a driver's license is compared to submitting to the 'mark of the beast'. I don't think Phillips goes for that particular flavor of end-times interpretation, but the fact remains that many of these people are afraid of the government. Not having a driver's license may be just one more way to go 'off-grid' and declare independence from the Ebil Gubbermint.

I think I have heard of some people opting out of social security or not having birth certificates for their kids. In my home state, homeschoolers are req'd to register with the state, but then have minimal oversight after that: my parents still declined to register me as a homeschooler because of fear of government intrusion.

[salex]

My first thought is that, to some fundies, having a driver's license is compared to submitting to the 'mark of the beast'. I don't think Phillips goes for that particular flavor of end-times interpretation, but the fact remains that many of these people are afraid of the government. Not having a driver's license may be just one more way to go 'off-grid' and declare independence from the Ebil Gubbermint.

I think I have heard of some people opting out of social security or not having birth certificates for their kids. In my home state, homeschoolers are req'd to register with the state, but then have minimal oversight after that: my parents still declined to register me as a homeschooler because of fear of government intrusion.

Politicly, this may be tricky for some of the groups that want to take over the government via the vote, since their own laws are requiring more and tighter Gov ID to register to vote. Tis sort of amusing.

[DomWackTroll]

Didn't we see photos of Doug driving a Jeep on the Browns' land during Scott's annual Independence Day festivities? I could swear we did.

And what about the infamous story of when My Dear Bride jumped out of her hospital bed just minutes after giving birth and Doug insisted they stop at a diner with their newborn child on the way home? Did a driver come with them to the hospital? Or did Doug actually make Beall drive?!! (Hate to admit it, but I'm laughing at the thought because... well, would you put it past him? Them womenfolk gotta be STURDY.)

[debrand]

My first thought is that, to some fundies, having a driver's license is compared to submitting to the 'mark of the beast'. I don't think Phillips goes for that particular flavor of end-times interpretation, but the fact remains that many of these people are afraid of the government. Not having a driver's license may be just one more way to go 'off-grid' and declare independence from the Ebil Gubbermint.

I think I have heard of some people opting out of social security or not having birth certificates for their kids. In my home state, homeschoolers are req'd to register with the state, but then have minimal oversight after that: my parents still declined to register me as a homeschooler because of fear of government intrusion.

Interesting when you combine the possibility that Doug doesn't have a driver's license with the secret meeting about the end times. I can't imagine Doug going Jim Jones but if the information on Jen's Gems(and I have my doubts) is correct, it does sound disturbing.

Now Dom Wack Troll has me wondering if Beall drove herself to the hospital when she was in labor.

[formergothardite]

I think he probably has a DL but he likes to look rich and important so he got driven around a lot. It was all about creating an image for Dougie.

[DomWackTroll]

FB commenter Ann Landley tells Peter, "Thank you for being a manly man!"

Honey, you're just not getting it, are you?

[Jezebel]

The poor young man was only 18/19 when he died yet Doug makes him sound like a priggish young fogey of 30.

Well, maybe he was a "young fogey." I've met a few of them over the years--priggish and stuffy, obsessed with status, authority, and rules, and arrogant in their belief that they deserved to be rewarded for doing everything "by the book." They really are like the most hidebound old folks, just in young bodies.

And what more welcoming culture for a young man like that than patriarchal, dominionist, hyper-Calvinism? Doing everything "by the book," diligently following the rules laid out for him, and bowing to authority would make him a paragon of Christian manhood, in that culture. Doug, from all accounts, is highly charismatic, and acts in an authoritative, self-assured way. Combined with the right ideology, that's like catnip to a "young fogey." And Dougie, like any narcissist, adores those who adore him.

It's possible that Michael was this wunderkid of calvinism or Doug Phillips (is a tool) is an emotionally stunted adult with no real idea what a mature person or idea sounds like.

I think it's more that Doug, as a narcissist, inflates the importance of anything or anyone that serves his self-portrayal. What Doug thinks is good is SUPERLATIVELY AWESOME. Grandiosity is a given with narcissists, so puffing up the amazing brilliance of a 19yo follower--who is dead, and thus can never be the source of future challenges to Doug's authority, or prove to be a disappointment--is exactly the kind of response I'd expect. Here's Dougie, enshrining Michael Billings as a spiritual prodigy, and who is going to be mean enough to argue with that? But it also burnishes Dougie's image by being able to claim this tragically lost "wunderkind of Calvinism" as his "spiritual son." It's a way of saying, "Look how awesome I am, that this astounding prodigy chose to follow me."

[DomWackTroll]

Perhaps Matt Chancey sent Doug a driver from Africa, 'cause you know it's even more fun if you use a black person and pretend you're Robert E. Lee (except in a car).

[Bookworm]

Someone here knows his true identity and I don't believe he's from one of the "royal families." I can't remember who knows who he is, but I don't think she will "out" his identity. Perhaps she will confirm the royalty status though.

I'm not sure I'd call him royalty, but he is very, very well connected.

Ugh, I'm getting more and more disgusted with Eston and Jen. They are such drama llamas. I guess there is a place for such, but I think I'm going to start calling it Jen's Enquirer.

My first thought is that, to some fundies, having a driver's license is compared to submitting to the 'mark of the beast'. I don't think Phillips goes for that particular flavor of end-times interpretation, but the fact remains that many of these people are afraid of the government. Not having a driver's license may be just one more way to go 'off-grid' and declare independence from the Ebil Gubbermint.

I think I have heard of some people opting out of social security or not having birth certificates for their kids. In my home state, homeschoolers are req'd to register with the state, but then have minimal oversight after that: my parents still declined to register me as a homeschooler because of fear of government intrusion.

This was actually the worst part of my homeschool experience, the fear of the government, the End Times, the mark of the beast, all that. I love my parents, but they are whackadoodles, and their extreme beliefs seriously traumatized me. That said, I am quite certain Doug Phillips is a tool has a license, but just enjoys having a chauffeur when possible, because of the elegance and importance it conveys.

[Palimpsest]

Someone here knows his true identity and I don't believe he's from one of the "royal families." I can't remember who knows who he is, but I don't think she will "out" his identity. Perhaps she will confirm the royalty status though.

KISA wasn't even a lowly intern. He was turned down because his family wasn't worthy or didn't have enough money. Or something. He was just a hanger-on on the fringes of VF/ATI circles.

He didn't really have any decent scoop either. Especially in retrospect. Doug was just a sweet bumbling well-meaning guy totally in love with Beall according to KISA.

IIRC, KISA's credentials were verified but under the promise that his identity would be kept confidential. It would be completely wrong to out him.

It would be quite interesting if he brought his patronizin, mansplaining little attitude back to discuss Doug's Fall but don't hold your breath. He went away like a kicked puppy with his tail between his legs ages ago. I'd be willing to bet he is reading here now though!