Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[hoipolloi]

I did post a reply on Jen's Blog. It's awaiting moderation. We will see if it makes the cut. I used my usual nom de plume :-)

Just in case it gets deleted:

All of this smacks of the Salem Witch Trials. Instead of accusing with Witch! Witch! I'm hearing Cougar! Cougar! Cotton Mather much, Mr. Eston? You need a history refresher course, sir. This lady looks like somone in need of compassion and some psychiatric help. Not judgement and scorn. Those VF "Men" who were so sure their patriarchal teachings would sin proof their sons sure headed in to freak out mode! They should all take a step back and check their own hearts and motives before the cries of Witch! Witch...oh yeah Cougar! Cougar! ring forth.

Another recommendation watch M. Night Shamalan's "The Village." There are lots of correlations between VF/ATI and the plot of this movie.

It's posted & Jen responded as follows:

SamuraiKatz, I think you have missed the entire point of this post. It is not about ________ ________, but about what hold ________ has over Doug. Perhaps you should read it again with that thought in mind.

:wtf:

[Edited by hoipolloi to remove name]

[Marian the Librarian]

I'm not sure how to feel about this, because when Jen points out that if she or any other female "commoner" at BCA had behaved the way ______ behaved (allegedly), they would have been treated very differently, she is telling the truth. We've seen that a million times.

* Beall and Jennie can go to college, but common women can't.

* James and Stacy can get divorced and remarried, but common people can't.

* The Phillips children can travel to sophisticated and/or exotic locales, but your children need nothing but frugal "home living."

* Perry C.'s wife and daughters can expose their arms and legs because they're "fully steeped in the Word," but you're not a mature enough Christian yet, so modesty.

I'm certainly not saying that this woman did anything "bad" or wrong. I'm just saying that we know that the elite in this movement do have a different set of rules than everyone else. The saddest part of all is that if ______ were not one of the "cool kids" she might have gotten the help she needed.

It's the "Do as I say, not as I do" pyramid scheme of Dominionist privilege.

[Cleopatra7]

It's posted & Jen responded as follows:

:wtf:

Okay, now I am confused. I thought the point of the post was about how J.G. was exhibiting inappropriate behavior at BCA and Doug Phillips is a tool condoned it, because he is a hypocritical tool. As I recall, the post was rather light on showing any kind of undue influence that J.G. had over him, although it was implied that she had dirt on him without saying what that might be. The post was mainly about what J.G. did, and Doug Phillips is a tool was really a side character.

[Edited by hoipolloi to remove name]

[Jezebel]

Well, what do you know - under the category of interesting timing, Clan Botkin has updated their "About the Team" page on westernconservatory.com. Is there an impending takeover of VF in the works?

Well, somebody's got to step up and gather in as many now-shepherdless sheep as possible, don't they? The collapse of VF and Dougie's scandals don't automatically mean that they're going to stop and have a good, long think about their belief system, or their need to follow a charismatic leader. They're going to need someone to fill that vacuum; who will they turn to next?

So Geoff Botkin's ready for them! Granted, there won't be any costume parties, or manly romps, and your butt had better be up to sitting through tedious, multi-hour sermons on what depraved sinners we all are. Unlike Dougie, Geoff Botkin's not much fun, alas. But for the ones inclined to repent of their frivolous ways, his Puritanical grimness might hold some appeal.

Geoff's bio:

westernconservatory.com/about/team

A manly man! He's exploded dynamite, you guys! And hung out with duck hunters! Surely, that makes up for the fact that he's an increasingly-cachectic and frail old man, whose relationship with his professional-virgin daughters is practically gothic, with its isolation and quasi-incestuous overtones? Yeah, I'd want to follow that, all right...sad thing is, somebody will.

[Bethie42]

I did post a reply on Jen's Blog. It's awaiting moderation. We will see if it makes the cut. I used my usual nom de plume :-)

Just in case it gets deleted:

All of this smacks of the Salem Witch Trials. Instead of accusing with Witch! Witch! I'm hearing Cougar! Cougar! Cotton Mather much, Mr. Eston? You need a history refresher course, sir. This lady looks like somone in need of compassion and some psychiatric help. Not judgement and scorn. Those VF "Men" who were so sure their patriarchal teachings would sin proof their sons sure headed in to freak out mode! They should all take a step back and check their own hearts and motives before the cries of Witch! Witch...oh yeah Cougar! Cougar! ring forth.

Another recommendation watch M. Night Shamalan's "The Village." There are lots of correlations between VF/ATI and the plot of this movie.

Regarding the bolded: so true! I watched "The Village" for the first time when I was 18 and had been struggling for a while to leave patriarchy…I was deeply struck by the parallels to patriarchy and other fundamentalist, hyper-sheltering movements. Watched it again this summer and got the same impression. I watched it with a group of several other people and we had a discussion about it, several people said it would be interesting to watch a movie about the set-up but more from a 'documentary' perspective, digging more into what motivated the village's founders.

Funny coincidence: on Oct. 31st when all this started blowing up, I was starting a fictional story about a conservative leader's family who went through a scandal and upset very similar to the VF debacle. Imagine my surprise when I heard of the Phillips resignation! It has been fascinating to watch this progress. Guess I may have to rework my story a little as real life events have made mine seem derivative!

[gustava]

This is possibly the best telenovela I've ever seen.

:clap: :clap:

[SamuraiKatz]

Oh, well done! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I can picture the steam coming out of TW's ears as I type. He will delete it and call you an evil harlot. :lol: :lol:

Actually...Jen slapped me down.. According to her, I read the post all wrong...It's my fault. Silly me. Evil I am..

This "bombshell" really pissed me off. Names were named, accusations were made and all to make the point that this woman has something she's holding over Doug Who Is a Tool to get a pass for her bad behavior? And with no real proof.

[Palimpsest]

Okay, now I am confused. I thought the point of the post was about how J.G. was exhibiting inappropriate behavior at BCA and Doug Phillips is a tool condoned it, because he is a hypocritical tool. As I recall, the post was rather light on showing any kind of undue influence that J.G. had over him, although it was implied that she had dirt on him without saying what that might be. The post was mainly about what J.G. did, and Doug Phillips is a tool was really a side character.

They speculated that there might, just might, be a piece of "concrete evidence" of Doug's illicit relationship and further speculated that it might, just might, be in the hands of the alleged "cougar." They are sailing very close to the winds of libel here. Accusing her of giving away too many pieces of her heart (they repeatedly say they have no evidence of preying on minors) and accusing her of blackmail are two different things. Extortion is another crime that should be reported.

Jen also says when talking about all these families and unwillingly seduced men who refuse to give names:

Sarah, there are many reasons people are not willing to use their real names. It used to be fear of Doug and his minions, but BCA is still alive (and well?), and ________ still knows each of these people. I pray that she does not try to retaliate, but that is a real concern.

She could have a fairly good case for libel against JensGems, but does the "cougar" also dress in black and bear arms? Oh, please!

[edited by hoipolloi to remove name]

[hoipolloi]

Eston & Jen are so focused on Cougar Woman that it seems as though they are really retaliating against or going after her for some reason, and Doug Phillips is only collateral damage.

This whole thing could have been presented without naming her at all. If the concerns really were about Doug Phillips' hypocrisy and leadership failures, they could have just outlined the disruptions and divisions her alleged behavior created in the BCA congregation, and the fact that BCA's leadership did not deal with it.

ATTN: T.W. Eston & Jen Fishburne: You're no better than Doug Phillips or Matt Chancey. The grade for this posting is F.

[Edited for clarity]

[SamuraiKatz]

It's posted & Jen responded as follows:

:wtf:

Thanks...And I replied. She likes to argue. And she sure has an odd definition of what is or isn't appropriate.

[edited by hoipolloi to remove name]

[SamuraiKatz]

Eston & Jen are totally focused on Cougar Woman to the point where it seems as though they are really retaliating against or going after her for some reason, and Doug Phillips is only collateral damage. This whole thing could have been presented without naming her at all. They could have just outlined the disruptions and divisions her alleged behavior created in the BCA congregation, and the failure of BCA's leadership to deal with it.

ATTN: T.W. Eston & Jen Fishburne: You're no better than Doug Phillips or Matt Chancey. The grade for this posting is F.

Thank you. You hit the nail on the head. I read the "bombshell" and thought WTF? This has nothing to do with Doug or his affair.

[Jezebel]

Okay, now I am confused. I thought the point of the post was about how J.G. was exhibiting inappropriate behavior at BCA and Doug Phillips is a tool condoned it, because he is a hypocritical tool. As I recall, the post was rather light on showing any kind of undue influence that J.G. had over him, although it was implied that she had dirt on him without saying what that might be. The post was mainly about what J.G. did, and Doug Phillips is a tool was really a side character.

TW Eston claims that JG must have some kind of influence over Doug, or know a lot of good dirt--but he fails to back up that claim. Yes, Doug (allegedly) let her (allegedly) scandalous behavior slide, to the point where numerous families left the church. Why did Doug appear to favor this "cougar," and allow her to be such a disruptive influence, tearing apart the congregation? Eston's claim that blackmail, and possibly extortion, are the reason may turn out to be true, but unless he provides proof, that's just speculation on his part.

And of course, Eston wants us to believe his version of the story, in which an unhinged, depraved female is preying upon helpless men within a church based on patriarchal rule. Does he even mention her husband? Where was he, during all this? The best Eston can do is paint a cartoon-villain portrait of a psychotic, sexually-rapacious Jezebel [*cough*] who holds the entire church leadership in thrall, and Doug Phillips--a master manipulator--can only stand by and let her, before being forced to step down? And none of the men she allegedly sexually harassed was able to say "No"?

Yeah, I'm not buying it. I want to see evidence, not just speculation filtered through a set of poisonous religious views.

[salex]

It's posted & Jen responded as follows:

Wouldn't that suggest that she has him bewitched!!! (Witch! Witch!)

[edited by hoipolloi to remove name]

[mirele]

This is possibly the best telenovela I've ever seen.

Not only that, it's in English! My Spanish is awful and Mexican telenovelas really tax the hell out of it.

[Marian the Librarian]

Wouldn't that suggest that she has him bewitched!!! (Witch! Witch!)

"How do you know she's a witch?"

"Well, she turned me into a newt!!"

(All hail Monty Python... :worship: :worship: :worship: )

[edited by hoipolloi to remove name]

[DomWackTroll]

When I first read Eston's latest post I thought (and posted here), "Gee, don't he and Jen know about Doug's fixation with this woman's brother? Why didn't they post the flowery, romantic tribute Doug wrote to him? Why don't they mention how close the two were?"

Well, I'll tell you why: They knew some sucker like me would do it for them, so that when Jen is asked in the comments if Doug ever had affairs with males, she can coyly say, "Not that I know of. But there's a lot I don't know."

I didn't give these two enough credit.

[SamuraiKatz]

At one time I felt Sorry for Jen and Family for getting snared into VF. And the ensuing internet attack and smear campaign. Now I can see she's really no better than Doug who is a tool.

[twin2]

We want to sell EVERYTHING, so now through Saturday, December 7, we’re offering you 60% off every single item in stock! When we sell out of our products, they’re gone. We don’t have any plans to bring them back.

Yeppers, I think the profit arm of VF is going to close out shop. Wonder what Dougie's next adventure will be.......

[hoipolloi]

At one time I felt Sorry for Jen and Family for getting snared into VF. And the ensuing internet attack and smear campaign. Now I can see she's really no better than Doug who is a tool.

I'll be as glad as anyone to see Doug Phillips Is A Tool taken down for good but, unfortunately, it seems like it often requires people just as bad ("takes one to know one") in these situations in order to put the target miscreant out of commission.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I don't see why this woman was named. She is not Doug. She is just a side character in this whole Doug Phillips the Tool who loves to share his Tool with the world scandal. The story would be just as informative if this woman had not been named. She is not as bad as Doug-sure, she is cheating on her husband, but there's no evidence that any of her partners were underage, there is no power difference within the church, and although some of her flirting with interns was not welcome, the sexual partner mentioned seemed willing and was legally an adult so there's nothing his daddy could do. Also this personality change happened so suddenly after her brother's tragic death, it could also have mental health issues behind it.

What Doug did was worse. He is the leader of a cult, in a patriarchal system where women are seen as property. Hero was also underage for some of the time when this was going on.

Yes, Doug is a hypocrite for preaching about how the only sexual partner anyone should have in their whole life is the person their daddy tells them to marry, yet he is doing sexual things to other women. He is a hypocrite for shaming the unmarried pregnant teenager in front of the whole church, but letting this woman get away with cheating on her husband with younger men with no comment. Yes, there could be reasons why he is letting her have sex outside marriage, but there is no reason she needs to be named.

[WonderingInWA]

I still don't understand this whole thing. That's IT? There's some woman in Dougie's congregation who was having sex with someone other than her husband and Dougie's only crime was knowing about it and not publicly shaming her or otherwise forcing her to leave the church?

I'm not buying it.

What does this woman have over Doug Phillips Who is a Tool? There's got to be more than that. That's not enough to force him to resign and force his empire to fall. No way.

[Marian the Librarian]

FWIW - here's the comment I just left on Jen's Gems, and her response:

Marian the Librarian Says:

December 2, 2013 at 5:00 pm

I think the focus should return to Doug Phillips’ publicly-admitted extramarital affair with a young woman – the affair which, per commenter "notsurprised" on November 26, 2013 at 12:51 pm, “started when she was 18 and she is now 30.†Without naming her, all prevailing wisdom on this site indicates that she began nannying for the Phillips family in her teens. Another widely-acknowledged fact is that Doug also signed her father’s paychecks, making her entire family beholden to him for their livelihood, and her the ideal victim for his sexual acting-out.

Given that leaders set ethos and tone, I have no doubts about all the rest – inappropriate behavior on the part of some other BCA members, the degeneration into *really* bad soap opera, and Doug’s “la la la, I can’t hear you†response to it all. But the spotlight should first and foremost be kept on the young woman, and on resolving whether or not she was subjected to criminal behavior.

Jen Says:

December 2, 2013 at 5:13 pm

Marian, no, her father was not employed by Doug. The rest of the family was, though, or they willingly “served†Doug Phillips.

Marian the Librarian Says:

December 2, 2013 at 5:31 pm

Thank you for the clarification.

[Watson]

I am a long time follower first time poster. Ever since this story broke I have wanted to post and ask about that blog (something like "Homeschool Hollywood") that was posting from late 2010 until early 2011. It always seemed to me it was a blackmail attempt and if I remember right it was counting down a date and promising to reveal scandal in the Phillips home and business. Could that have been created by this women they are currently on about at Jen's gems. I'm hoping somewhere in your archives there are details about the posts because they are no longer accessible on the actual blog.

P.s. Love you guys! You have made putting up with the crazy fundies on my husband's side bearable!

[MissSeptember]

Maybe Doug was in an inappropriate relationship with the brother, but "Cougar" knew and has evidence. Maybe his death was a suicide with a note left behind, or perhaps not, maybe she just has other correspondence implicating the relationship. This could explain her extreme out-of-character behavior after his death (not that the early death of a loved one isn't cause enough).

BCA asks Doug to discipline "Cougar," but she holds his former relationship and her evidence over his head. Finally, in January 2013 she lets something slip or someone else discovers the evidence and Doug steps down as Elder. Other members are upset with the way BCA handles the situation and leave the church (including "Hero's" family).

This fall, "Cougar" or one of the BCA members who know, threaten to expose Doug. He steps down, citing an inappropriate emotional relationship with a mystery woman. This woman is "Cougar." He had a "lengthy, inappropriate relationship with a woman." No sex, but it was romantic and affectionate in the same way "Cougar" was romantic and affectionate with all of the young men in the church (side hugs and putting her hand on his arm). This is also why he feels no need to publicly apologize to the victim.

Orrrrrrr maybe I watch too many movies/tv.

[twin2]

I for one, still think that Doug needs to provide further clarification about his resignation. Another post is surly in order.