Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[Jezebel]

Yeppers, I think the profit arm of VF is going to close out shop. Wonder what Dougie's next adventure will be.......

Given his rush to liquidate everything as fast as possible, and the possibility that he's been involved in some criminal activity (such as misuse of VFM funds), my guess is he's going to high-tail it out of the country. The business that is VFI is shutting down, so it doesn't matter if he sells everything at a loss--he just needs to raise cash. And when he's raised every last nickel he can, he'll clean out the company's accounts and go.

Screw paying his vendors, or the light bill, or clearing any unsold inventory out of the VFM-owned warehouse (which he's probably been given 60-90 days to vacate). If he thought he could weasel his way out of the mess he's in, rehab his image, and re-emerge forgiven, he wouldn't be holding a fire sale. This isn't just a hard bump in the road; it's the end of the road, and if he doesn't want to end up in jail he's got to get out while he can.

I've never believed this was all about an "affair." That may indeed be part of it, but from the beginning I've suspected that financial fraud is the real reason he was forced to resign from VFM, and possibly from BCA, as well.

Jiminy Jumping Cricket, this is practically the best Christmas present ever! I can't wait to see the next plot twist unfold...

[DomWackTroll]

Another thing I just noticed in Doug's original obituary for M.B.:

"On his way home, he pulled out of a dangerous intersection and was hit by a car, killed instantly and ushered into the presence of his Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ."

Is it just me, or is that a really strange thing to say in an obituary for a friend? Not "he was killed in an accident at a dangerous intersection" but "he pulled out of a dangerous intersection," giving the deceased an active role in his own death.

[debrand]

I still don't understand this whole thing. That's IT? There's some woman in Dougie's congregation who was having sex with someone other than her husband and Dougie's only crime was knowing about it and not publicly shaming her or otherwise forcing her to leave the church?

I'm not buying it.

What does this woman have over Doug Phillips Who is a Tool? There's got to be more than that. That's not enough to force him to resign and force his empire to fall. No way.

He admitted to having a physical affair with someone. I think that the current revelation is an attempt to detract attention from Doug, as the saying goes, smoke and mirrors.

[Olive Plant]

Well, what do you know - under the category of interesting timing, Clan Botkin has updated their "About the Team" page on westernconservatory.com. Is there an impending takeover of VF in the works?

Geoff's bio:

westernconservatory.com/about/team

Re: the bolded, does this mean he got to light a match for his dad's company as an infant or something? His dad worked for various oil companies. Also, working with duck hunters does not make you a wildlife biologist. It might make you a retriever, however.

[WonderingInWA]

He admitted to having a physical affair with someone. I think that the current revelation is an attempt to detract attention from Doug, as the saying goes, smoke and mirrors.

Right -- it's a decoy. At first the decoy was the inappropriate relationship he had with another woman that wasn't Biblical. Oh, and then the decoy was that it WAS indeed physical. And now the new decoy is this other woman from his congregation who was having sex with men that weren't her husband. But there is something much bigger going on that no one is owning up to. Smoke and mirrors, exactly.

[DomWackTroll]

He admitted to having a physical affair with someone. I think that the current revelation is an attempt to detract attention from Doug, as the saying goes, smoke and mirrors.

But why would Jen and Not-Mark, of all people, participate in helping Doug? Do you think they're being duped by this couple, and Doug is behind it?

[SamuraiKatz]

Yeppers, I think the profit arm of VF is going to close out shop. Wonder what Dougie's next adventure will be.......

I am thinking he will land somewhere or other where there is no extradition treaty with the United States?

[gustava]

I am a long time follower first time poster. Ever since this story broke I have wanted to post and ask about that blog (something like "Homeschool Hollywood") that was posting from late 2010 until early 2011. It always seemed to me it was a blackmail attempt and if I remember right it was counting down a date and promising to reveal scandal in the Phillips home and business. Could that have been created by this women they are currently on about at Jen's gems. I'm hoping somewhere in your archives there are details about the posts because they are no longer accessible on the actual blog.

P.s. Love you guys! You have made putting up with the crazy fundies on my husband's side bearable!

Welcome!

[debrand]

But why would Jen and Not-Mark, of all people, participate in helping Doug? Do you think they're being duped by this couple, and Doug is behind it?

That is exactly what I am wondering. However, I don't know if Doug is that smart or not. Jen certainly would be a willing dupe for such a decoy but I might be giving Phillips way too much credit.

[Karsaroni]

But why would Jen and Not-Mark, of all people, participate in helping Doug? Do you think they're being duped by this couple, and Doug is behind it?

I agree.. this side story posted today on Jen's blog may not have anything directly to do w/ the "real" story but I also think this whole thing has a LOT of moving parts.. TD mentioned this story falls in line with the culture that was formed at BCA and could possibly make more sense when he posts add'l info later this week (so he says).

The piece of tangible "evidence" they allude to is HUGE in my opinion. Be it a letter, photo, etc. If that gets out it may be the thing that ties this all together.

For me the fact that Hero and her family left in January and then Doug stepped down in February is also very telling. Also obvious that BCA was trying to sweep this thing under the rug. But I agree that SOMETHING else had to have happened or come out for him to post his resignation in October. Perhaps it's financial related info pertaining to the Ministry and VP Inc.

I'm certainly hoping more people come forward.

[SamuraiKatz]

I hope more people come foreward. BUT only if they are willing to own their words. The pseudonyms and hiding behind Eston and Jen is crap.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I agree there HAS to be money shenanigans involved, even if only of the "colossal mismanagement and losing all the money and hiding that from everyone until too late" variety (but from all the running around, probably more than that).

So... any speculation as to what country he might try to go to if he really did leave the US? New Zealand, or was that only a Botkin thing?

Not to mention, you can't just waltz into legal residency in foreign countries, usually. Wonder what his move would be.

[Jezebel]

Another thing I just noticed in Doug's original obituary for M.B.:

"On his way home, he pulled out of a dangerous intersection and was hit by a car, killed instantly and ushered into the presence of his Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ."

Is it just me, or is that a really strange thing to say in an obituary for a friend? Not "he was killed in an accident at a dangerous intersection" but "he pulled out of a dangerous intersection," giving the deceased an active role in his own death.

It's a weird way of phrasing it. I guess Dougie got too carried away with his own bombast.

I googled for a news report of the crash, and found one from the San Antonio paper (on page 2):

http://angelagrant.com/wp-content/uploa ... pehome.pdf

Short version: it's in the afternoon, he was driving west, and ran a stop sign when he made a left turn to go south. Another car hit his. He wasn't wearing a seatbelt, and was dead at the scene. The other driver, an 18yo woman, was injured, but survived.

Moral of the story? Just because Jesus is your co-pilot doesn't mean you don't have to buckle up. That's a pretty sad, stupid, needless way to die.

[sparrow]

Forgive me, but what is Jen's connection with Dougie? (Jen the blogger on JensGems) Who is she?

[WonderingInWA]

It's a weird way of phrasing it. I guess Dougie got too carried away with his own bombast.

I googled for a news report of the crash, and found one from the San Antonio paper (on page 2):

http://angelagrant.com/wp-content/uploa ... pehome.pdf

Short version: it's in the afternoon, he was driving west, and ran a stop sign when he made a left turn to go south. Another car hit his. He wasn't wearing a seatbelt, and was dead at the scene. The other driver, an 18yo woman, was injured, but survived.

Moral of the story? Just because Jesus is your co-pilot doesn't mean you don't have to buckle up. That's a pretty sad, stupid, needless way to die.

IIRC, he had just come from a conference, so should have been covered in fresh prayer on his journey home. Maybe that's why he thought he didn't need his seatbelt.

[Palimpsest]

I've been trying to catch up on "likes" on this thread. So much wisdom. So many things to comment on ...

Anyone who has read my previous posts on this thread must know that I regard JensGems, Jen and TW with much suspicion. They "may" have accurate info but their motives are so suspect. And the shaming of _____ made me nauseous. They could certainly have made their point without naming names. And I detest Doug Phillips too. More than I can express.

But sometimes good comes out of bad.

Can I give a quick shout out to this guy? Andrew McDonald. He gives an excellent primer in the comments on JensGems on how to get the fuck out of a Doug Phillips-like cult.

Andrew McDonald Says:

December 2, 2013 at 10:23 am

It is time for all those involved in a ‘house church’ to begin trusting any misgivings they might have felt before they saw all this unfold. Especially if the leadership are involved with or follow Doug Phillips. We were members of one where the events were right out of the DP Playbook. (Later the leaders sent their son to be an intern with DP.) I imagine they are pretty depressed about that now… sort of like sending your kids to the temple of Baal.

At any rate after two years we got out but not after some turmoil. Believe me, it is very hard once you’re ‘in’ the system to not do almost anything the leaders asks just to keep their favor. Especially once you’ve seen how those who do not behave are treated. Then there is the shame of having been involved in that mis-treatment personally. Yet God is good, He forgives.

We eventually had what we later called ‘the last supper’ with our leaders, were told how deeply, deeply disappointed they were in us and by us, how much we’d hurt them and we were pretty much gone after that. Although they did allow us to do some work activities afterwards. They were sure to tell those in the group that we were ‘bad’ and to leave us alone.

Is it time to leave yet? Do this:

1. Get out of the group. Even though it will be hard, leave the group. Don’t try to fix it as the leaders are not interested in that. Yes you have deep friendships there but the real friends will remain; in fact some may have the courage to leave once they see you do it but don’t hang your hat on it. We’ve had three couples come out. Two of whom we’ve spoken with about it and one who we are cordial with but never addressed the issues. You will survive. It is likely that the leaders made sure to isolate you somehow, like by telling you everyone else is wrong. It took us two years to go to church again. Don’t wait that long. Find a good church.

2. Ask forgiveness from those you’ve hurt along the way. Asking forgiveness is never easy, it requires humility, but do it anyway, it will help the healing. I called those old members who we shut out and asked forgiveness.

3. Consider your salvation. The part the house church has played in your life may very well be the journey to finally arriving home! I had gone from Bible Church to charismatic church, to really charismatic, to legalism looking for the answer to my flesh. I was never a new creation just domesticated and not really well house trained. (lol). I got saved after all this. Did I enjoy the journey? No. Was it apparently required for me? Yep, because now I know what Peter Bradrick and others are is going through and can assure them, that as they look to Jesus, He WILL see them through! He did it for me, He’ll do it for you.

4. Pray for the leadership. Remember they are on a journey too. Many have been fooled by the ilks of Doug Phillips. And every christian is charged to reconcile. My pastor told me we have the ministry of reconciliation and that is Biblical so just do it.

Be ready to share your story in a way that will not be gossipy but will be a warning to those who will listen. God did not take you through anything for nothing. It will serve a purpose, somehow, someday. Trust.

Thanks, Andrew. I may quibble with your religiosity but I completely agree with your message.

[Jezebel]

So... any speculation as to what country he might try to go to if he really did leave the US? New Zealand, or was that only a Botkin thing?

Yeah, that was a Botkin thing, and they had no use for Geoff and his 200-year "vision." Talk about megalomania! Oy!

Not to mention, you can't just waltz into legal residency in foreign countries, usually. Wonder what his move would be.

Depending upon how much wealth you've got, some countries will let you in and let you have residency if you can prove you're self-supporting and have capital to invest in the local economy. A lot of wealthy Hong Kong Chinese ended up in Vancouver that way. A less-prosperous Latin American, African, or Southeast Asian country, where the US dollar still goes a long way? They'd let him in. He doesn't have a felony conviction, much less a warrant out for his arrest--not yet, anyway.

Hell, he could go to Cuba. Do the manly-man Ernest Hemingway thing, ya know? Or Argentina--if he can get citizenship, they likely won't extradite him.

[SamuraiKatz]

Forgive me, but what is Jen's connection with Dougie? (Jen the blogger on JensGems) Who is she?

No forgiveness needed :-). Welcome! Jen and her now ex husband were once part of Dougie's Vision Forum cult. Jen did not have a meek and quiet spirit. She wanted to argue/discuss/debate points of religious dogma with Doug. After much drama Jen and family were kicked out of the Church. Doug's minions started a smear campaign that went from local to the internet. Jen documents it pretty well on her blog. Check the archives.

[Marian the Librarian]

No forgiveness needed :-). Welcome! Jen and her now ex husband were once part of Dougie's Vision Forum cult. Jen did not have a meek and quiet spirit. She wanted to argue/discuss/debate points of religious dogma with Doug. After much drama Jen and family were kicked out of the Church. Doug's minions started a smear campaign that went from local to the internet. Jen documents it pretty well on her blog. Check the archives.

Kathryn Joyce's book "Quiverfull" also does an excellent job of summarizing this story, along with providing a lot of other insights into the Dominionist/Quiverfull mindset.

[Mary C Doates]

Yeah, that was a Botkin thing, and they had no use for Geoff and his 200-year "vision." Talk about megalomania! Oy!

Depending upon how much wealth you've got, some countries will let you in and let you have residency if you can prove you're self-supporting and have capital to invest in the local economy. A lot of wealthy Hong Kong Chinese ended up in Vancouver that way. A less-prosperous Latin American, African, or Southeast Asian country, where the US dollar still goes a long way? They'd let him in. He doesn't have a felony conviction, much less a warrant out for his arrest--not yet, anyway.

Hell, he could go to Cuba. Do the manly-man Ernest Hemingway thing, ya know? Or Argentina--if he can get citizenship, they likely won't extradite him.

He wants to live on a pirate ship in the Caribbean, where he can dress in jaunty nautical attire and brandish a cutlass. Arrgghh!

Doug Phillips: still a tool.

[thoughtful]

All that's missing is, "He is the most interesting man in the world." :roll:

[sparrow]

Kathryn Joyce's book "Quiverfull" also does an excellent job of summarizing this story, along with providing a lot of other insights into the Dominionist/Quiverfull mindset.

Thanks SamuraiKatz & Marian! :)

[Mary C Doates]

Kathryn Joyce's book "Quiverfull" also does an excellent job of summarizing this story, along with providing a lot of other insights into the Dominionist/Quiverfull mindset.

You may want to start with the version given in Quiverfull before reading the rather lengthy blow-by-blow account on Jen's Gems. Jen had/has a great deal of...shall we say, resentment towards Doug Phillips (who is a tool), so her account tends to be a bit fervid (which is an understatement). She also used to have links to supporting documents in her posts, but the links have been removed, which can make her account a little disjointed at times. The account in Quiverfull helps give the story a little more perspective.

Welcome to FreeJinger. Doug Phillips is a tool.

[DomWackTroll]

Wesley Strackbein's jaw-dropping tribute to M.B.:

"In human terms, M.B.'s death three years ago was a blow for Christendom. We lost a great trumpet for the truth when his earthly sojourn came to an end. Yet there are no accidents with God, and while we can't know the depths of His eternal counsels, it is no coincidence that Barack Obama was elected President of the United States on the one-year anniversary of M.B.'s passing."

visionforumministries.org/issues/news_and_reports/right_rhetoric_obama_vs_billin.aspx

Just let that sink in: M.B. was so important, and his death such a catastrophe for Western Civilization, that God imposed upon us a godless, Marxist president!

ETA: Nathaniel Darnell's tribute to M.B., who shared an apartment with Darnell for the last two months of his life:

"After the conference, we spent many wonderful hours at the home of Wade Myers and his family, talking about God, discipleship, fruitfulness, and business. Mr. Myers later remarked that M.B. was 'very gentle and sweet and almost angelic in his demeanor.'"

perseveronews.com/a-tribute-to-my-late-friend-and-co-warrior-michael-billings/

I'm sorry the kid died, obviously, but... WTF? It's like they worshiped him.

[anjulibai]

Can anyone give a summary of what's going on? I'm afraid to wade through the pages of this thread that I have missed.