Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[hoipolloi]

So... any speculation as to what country he might try to go to if he really did leave the US? New Zealand, or was that only a Botkin thing?

Kenya.

[mcchatty]

What time are services at BCA? Doug (total tool) said in his florid obituary that Michael Billings was rushing to get to weekly worship.I can't find the blog post- some scrubbing must have been happening today. I assumed they started worship earlier than that.-Of course I am picturing a sort of Amish style multi hour solemn service(although without the Amish charm ;)

[WonderingInWA]

Wesley Strackbein's jaw-dropping tribute to M.B.:

"In human terms, M.B.'s death three years ago was a blow for Christendom. We lost a great trumpet for the truth when his earthly sojourn came to an end. Yet there are no accidents with God, and while we can't know the depths of His eternal counsels, it is no coincidence that Barack Obama was elected President of the United States on the one-year anniversary of M.B.'s passing."

visionforumministries.org/issues/news_and_reports/right_rhetoric_obama_vs_billin.aspx

Just let that sink in: M.B. was so important, and his death such a catastrophe for Western Civilization, that God imposed upon us a godless, Marxist president!

ETA: Nathaniel Darnell's tribute to M.B., who shared an apartment with Darnell for the last two months of his life:

"After the conference, we spent many wonderful hours at the home of Wade Myers and his family, talking about God, discipleship, fruitfulness, and business. Mr. Myers later remarked that M.B. was 'very gentle and sweet and almost angelic in his demeanor.'"

perseveronews.com/a-tribute-to-my-late-friend-and-co-warrior-michael-billings/

I'm sorry the kid died, obviously, but... WTF? It's like they worshiped him.

That's what I was looking for and couldn't find -- our boy Darnell's write-up about the conference and its nightcap (or whatever they call it), complete with photos. I love the photo with Phil-'er-up Bradrick! in the foreground -- intern buddies!

And of course no one wishes that kind of death on anyone, but I'm trying to figure out why this kid was so royal. Perhaps only royal in death. He did like costuming, though, so maybe that got him one step closer to Doug Phillips is a Tool's A-list.

[Mary C Doates]

Kenya.

Greece. I don't think he had the chance to gallivant around in those custom-made togas (and you know he has them somewhere).

I don't see Doug (Phillips who is a tool) leaving the U.S.. If he left, it would be more difficult to keep people like Geoff Botkin or Scott Brown from taking control over what I'm sure he still considers to be "his" ministry. He'll stick around, and his wealthy supporters will throw all their money and influence behind him. Leaving would make it look as though he is guilty of something, and I suspect Doug (Phillips who is a tool) is not about to admit to anything more than his "inappropriately affectionate'" but not-sexual-oh-no-no-sex-here-definitely-no-sex relationship.

Because Doug Phillips is an arrogant tool.

[DomWackTroll]

And of course no one wishes that kind of death on anyone, but I'm trying to figure out why this kid was so royal. Perhaps only royal in death. He did like costuming, though, so maybe that got him one step closer to Doug Phillips is a Tool's A-list.

Yeah, he was a big-time cosplayer, whereas you could tell that some of the guys-- including Bradrick-- just didn't feel comfortable in the frills.

[Palimpsest]

Can anyone give a summary of what's going on? I'm afraid to wade through the pages of this thread that I have missed.

Doug is a tool. A consumate tool. Add total toolishness descriptions here.

JensGems (TW and Jen) is trying to expose Doug's toolishness, but are misfiring and exposing their own toolishness as well as Doug's.

Bradrick! and others are also tools. Lots of people are trying to distance themselves from the Consumate Tool. It doesn't make them look that good to the educated reader but Koolaide consumers are good with it.

Patriarchy grows tools. In toolish proportions.

Take home message of the Patriarchs -- When push comes to shove it is always ALWAYS the woman's fault. However toolish men are. Pray for the men. Forget the women.

[mirele]

Kenya.

The US has an extradition treaty with Kenya.

Here's a list of states the US has an extradition treaty with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... n_treaties

And here's a handy map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ntries.PNG

(Wikipedia, links not broken)

I don't think Doug's going to bail on the USA, there's no place that he *likes* where he could go.

[Arete]

This is just my speculation. Jen Epstein drew a map and a bullseye to the young woman that Doug Phillips (who is a Tool) was having the "inappropriate by not in the Biblical sense" relationship with. Now a guy I'm willing to bet a fiver is her ex husband is "exploding a bombshell" about another woman in BCA who supposedly was seducing young men.

I think they are both using Jensgems to even scores against people, especially women, who may have been cold or mean to Jen or her daughter after the elders threw her under the bus. They know the Tool is going down, and they are using this God given opportunity to expand the scope of their personal revenge. Their cool with the Tool being punished, but they have others on their list.

[Cleopatra7]

Doug Phillips is a tool wouldn't flee the US, because the patriarchy/quiverfull movement is too US-centric. Despite the superficially genteel surface, Doug Phillips is a tool is just like the churlish Duggars, globetrotting in a state of ignorance, wondering why people in other countries can't speak "Murican" and eat hotdogs and hamburgers.

ETA: The quasi-tabloid reports at Jen's Gems remind me of the various anti-People's Temple groups that existed in San Francisco in the 1970s before the final massacure. Some of the claims these groups made were false (ie that there was an all-female hit squad to take out defectors in the US), while others were true (ie that People's Temple was preparing for a mass murder/suicide). Even today, scholars have difficulty parsing out the truth about People's Temple, because the story is just so bizarre, and no one who examines it is really neutral. Because of the size of BCA/VF was so small, it may be even more difficult to find people who are really knowledgeable about that experience, whereas People's Temple, which was a pretty large organization that had many powerful friends and a long paper trail.

[Aunt Bee]

Everyone look north at this jezebel, while the tool takes the money and runs south. I'm not believing this story one bit.

[debrand]

Yeah, he was a big-time cosplayer, whereas you could tell that some of the guys-- including Bradrick-- just didn't feel comfortable in the frills.

It is very sad that someone so young died and I understand that his family and friends loved him dearly but they make the young man sound like a candidate for sainthood.

Yet despite his short life, this young man left a profound legacy of public speaking as well as counsel on oration that stands in stark contrast to the bad example our current President has set.

[mnwnwmwmn]

I just read the earth-shaking reveal on Jens Gems. Meh. Of note:

1.) Doug Phillips is a tool, who can't drive.

2.) This poor girl sounds like an untreated Bipolar Manic who broke after her brother's death. It sounds like she needs treatment more than shame.

3.) Doug is Jim Jones Lite.

[debrand]

Can anyone give a summary of what's going on? I'm afraid to wade through the pages of this thread that I have missed.

Doug had an affair with someone-he assures everyone it was a woman. He stepped down from Vision Forum. The organization is now gone.

A site called Jen's Gems posted a story from an ex member of Doug's church. According to this person, Doug didn't prevent a married woman from coming on to numerous interns or sleeping with an 18 year old man. The woman lost a much younger brother in a tragic car accident. After his death she started to act out sexually. None of us know if this is true, it is just speculation from Jen Epstein and an unknown person. Jen detests Doug so much that she might not be the most reliable source.

Oh and apparently, Doug gathered all the great men among his cohorts to sleep over in a cabin to discuss the end of the world.

[SamuraiKatz]

This is just my speculation. Jen Epstein drew a map and a bullseye to the young woman that Doug Phillips (who is a Tool) was having the "inappropriate by not in the Biblical sense" relationship with. Now a guy I'm willing to bet a fiver is her ex husband is "exploding a bombshell" about another woman in BCA who supposedly was seducing young men.

I think they are both using Jensgems to even scores against people, especially women, who may have been cold or mean to Jen or her daughter after the elders threw her under the bus. They know the Tool is going down, and they are using this God given opportunity to expand the scope of their personal revenge. Their cool with the Tool being punished, but they have others on their list.

Interesting thought. My mind danced all round the heart of the matter.

[lemonhead]

What time are services at BCA? Doug (total tool) said in his florid obituary that Michael Billings was rushing to get to weekly worship.I can't find the blog post- some scrubbing must have been happening today. I assumed they started worship earlier than that.-Of course I am picturing a sort of Amish style multi hour solemn service(although without the Amish charm ;)

They start at 10:30 am. He'd need to leave Dallas around 6:00-ish at the latest to get to Boerne in time, depending on how closely he adhered to traffic laws. Possibly not very, considering he wasn't using a seat belt.

[debrand]

SOme of the comments on Jen's Gems are interesting but I don't know how much truth to assign to them. Like this one:

Traveler Says:

December 2, 2013 at 7:44 pm

Goodbye Douggie! After leering at my sister and telling my parents she was an angel. (Naturally they were leaders in the homeschool community who lapped it up.) I can remember how obsessed he was with my sister and Jeanine Erber, I think it was on a faith and freedom tour, but that was a long time ago. Bout time another one bites the dust!

Reply

O.

and

NC Says:

December 2, 2013 at 1:47 pm

When Peter left SA to pursue Kelly Brown he came to town with both guns slinging. Using his own words, his “fierce loyalty†to Doug (now transferred to Scott Brown) was indeed a badge he wore. He made no excuses for his desire and willingness to follow another man. His cowboy style left most who came in contact with him a little taken back. Most laughed behind his back while some confronted his arrogance. It was clear to most people that he was/is being used by older men to help advance their own agendas. In these groups they like to call guys like Peter “Interns†(never quite figured out how a movement that calls men to be the patriarchs of their homes also convinces fathers to send their boys somewhere else to be raised). Bottom line, Peter knew something was wrong, but for some reason failed in his duty to God and looked the other way.

I know he enjoys beer, cannot comment on smoking,

[mnwnwmwmn]

Well, what do you know - under the category of interesting timing, Clan Botkin has updated their "About the Team" page on westernconservatory.com. Is there an impending takeover of VF in the works?

Geoff's bio:

westernconservatory.com/about/team

Geoff reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard in how he is an expert in all this random, diverse fields, but with no evidence to back it up. A duck biologist? Seriously? When? Between being a government leader, legendary filmmaker, famous sculptor, and taking dominion over New Zealand, when did he have the time to live amongst the ducks? :evil-eye:

[Sister Mozz]

Geoff reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard in how he is an expert in all this random, diverse fields, but with no evidence to back it up. A duck biologist? Seriously? When? Between being a government leader, legendary filmmaker, famous sculptor, and taking dominion over New Zealand, when did he have the time to live amongst the ducks? :evil-eye:

I can't help but think this new duck info has to be trying to capitalize on the popularity of a certain television show... :whistle: :animals-duckie: :animals-duckie: :animals-duckie:

[RachelB]

I just read the earth-shaking reveal on Jens Gems. Meh. Of note:

1.) Doug Phillips is a tool, who can't drive.

2.) This poor girl sounds like an untreated Bipolar Manic who broke after her brother's death. It sounds like she needs treatment more than shame.

3.) Doug is Jim Jones Lite.

Oooh, that gave me a little Clueless earworm!

TY0bHULptWQ

[thoughtful]

He wants to live on a pirate ship in the Caribbean, where he can dress in jaunty nautical attire and brandish a cutlass. Arrgghh!

I tried to work something about black eyeliner into this, but it just didn't scan:

q2j90qg_5_w

Oh, I’ll run far from all my trials

I'm gonna sail for miles and miles.

I tried the sanctimonious part

But they saw that I have a pirate’s heart.

Away from my cheated acolytes,

This pirate now finds he must take flight.

But I’ll be true to the Phillips school,

And live and die a Pirate Tool.

For I am a Pirate Tool!

And it is, it is so wondrous cool

To be a Pirate Tool!

For I am a Pirate Tool!

You are!

You really are such a Tool!

And it is, it is so wondrous cool

To be a Pirate Tool.

It is!

You really are such a Tool!

You’re really a massive Tool!

When I sally forth, my foes to quash.

Unbuck’ling everybody’s swash.

I swing my sword too wide, it’s true,

Than a Manly Calvinist ought to do.

But many a tool has to run and hide,

For sins committed against his bride.

And so I’ll sail the bounding main,

And never shall I return again.

For I am a Pirate Tool!

And it is, it is so wondrous cool

To be a Pirate Tool!

For I am a Pirate Tool!

You are!

You really are such a Tool!

And it is, it is so wondrous cool

To be a Pirate Tool.

It is!

You really are such a Tool!

You’re really a massive Tool!

[RachelB]

I can't help but think this new duck info has to be trying to capitalize on the popularity of a certain television show... :whistle: :animals-duckie: :animals-duckie: :animals-duckie:

Or else he's trying to set his daughters up with a couple of Arndts. (This will not happen.)

[WonderingInWA]

I'd like to hear from the Leclerc Brothers. They are filmmakers that were leg-humpers of Dougie's as well, and were faithful attendees at Dougie's film festival. Phillip Leclerc is married to Esther Zimmerman, and they went on the trip to Greece (as evidenced by public photos of themselves on their FB pages). Esther's brother is Tait Zimmerman, the one that begged for money to pay off his hospital bill from 5 years ago (and who went on to have 4 more kids afterward, despite his debt) and Dougie was quite instrumental in tapping the pocketbooks of VF fans for donations to the Zimmerman debt.

The ones who AREN'T speaking are speaking volumes. Especially Tait Zimmerman who is quite outspoken on his public FB page.

Where are you Leclercs and Zimmermans?

[singsingsing]

Oooh, that gave me a little Clueless earworm!

TY0bHULptWQ

:lol: Okay, can 'Virgin Who Can't Drive' please become a user title? I've been desperately wanting it as my user title for ages now - partly because it describes so many fundies, partly because it's hilarious, and partly because I am also a virgin who can't drive. Now that it describes Doug Phillips, it must be fate.

[Cleopatra7]

:lol: Okay, can 'Virgin Who Can't Drive' please become a user title? I've been desperately wanting it as my user title for ages now - partly because it describes so many fundies, partly because it's hilarious, and partly because I am also a virgin who can't drive. Now that it describes Doug Phillips, it must be fate.

As a fellow virgin who can't drive (but is not a tool), I concur! :clap:

[Peas n carrots]

Could I get a Reader's Digest on the Botkin's New Zealand adventure? They thought they could establish dominion down there???

As someone else noted, it's kind of odd, when so much of VF is very much based on their interpretation of American ideals.