Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[Cleopatra7]

It ALMOST makes it sound like the the victim could be a Bradrick family member, but certainly that can't be, right?

Eston did imply that there had been other victims besides Hero, so it could be possible. At this point, anything is possible.

[uber frau]

It ALMOST makes it sound like the the victim could be a Bradrick family member, but certainly that can't be, right?

Peter finally worked out that what happened in that pew photo wasn't just an 'accident'.

[RosyDaisy]

What if Hero is pregnant and actually keeping the baby?

What if she has already had the baby and is demanding (or her family) financial support (which she and the baby are entitled to and deserve)? I think that's totally possible and fits into the timeline. Also, what , if anything does Howard's have to do with this?

[Brigit Branwyn]

Peter finally worked out that what happened in that pew photo wasn't just an 'accident'.

What pew photo?

[debrand]

Stacy McDonald wrote on her own facebook page:

Adultery is unique in its cruelty. It is harshly personal. Its jagged blade violates the soul like a violent assault. Such a betrayal communicates rejection and treachery. It digs its claws into the heart, hoping to infect each wound with bitterness and hatred—even self hatred. The very one who has promised to love you until death, who has seen you at your most vulnerable moments, has forsaken his vows and embraced a stranger. What could be more cutting?

But, it happens all the time. And if we continue to minimize the tragedy of the defiled marriage bed, we can expect things to get worse. Adultery is not the only way the marriage bed is dishonored, but it is one of the most vicious ways—it is what leaves the permanent imprint of pain and sorrow on the heart. Even if the betrayal is forgiven and couples find healing, the tender battle scars remain.

I've had both friends and family members who I knew cheated or had their spouse cheat on them. Of course, I was devastated for the victim but Stacy' s outrage seems more personal. Was she very close to Beall?

[pomegranate82]

It ALMOST makes it sound like the the victim could be a Bradrick family member, but certainly that can't be, right?

The "I'm sensing much of your concern is over her", to me, suggests that it isn't - but then she could certainly be someone close to the family. It certainly sounds like a lot of people have information about the situation that is not yet in the public realm. But then why is there this drip drip drip release? Bradrick! has said that he will make a series of posts before he goes off to his quiet season of life which is odd - he's said he will make more information known but why do it bit by bit and what time line is he working to?

[pomegranate82]

Stacy McDonald wrote on her own facebook page:

I've had both friends and family members who I knew cheated or had their spouse cheat on them. Of course, I was devastated for the victim but Stacy' s outrage seems more personal. Was she very close to Beall?

Maybe Beall is actually going for a divorce and people are taking her side. Maybe that's the big revelation. She said she wouldn't to Doug's face but then had time to reconsider?

[Peas n carrots]

Maybe Beall is actually going for a divorce and people are taking her side. Maybe that's the big revelation. She said she wouldn't to Doug's face but then had time to reconsider?

You might be onto something. If that is the case...GO BEALL! Take Dougie to the cleaners!

[DomWackTroll]

This is the article James McDonald wrote in 2008 that enraged Doug and ended their friendship:

"My dear brother, Voddie, has said that the Palin choice is not a pro-family choice. I agree with him. My friend, and co-laborer in the faith, Doug, has said that a woman in an office of civil authority is a curse on a nation. I agree with him as well. But there have been other things said that I do not agree with… It has been said by some friends of mine that voting for anyone beside Chuck Baldwin is a sin. Really? Brothers, I do not see this in my Bible."

familyreformation.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/voting-in-faith/

Stacy later said that she stayed in bed for weeks during this drama. She has never forgiven Doug, hence her evident glee in this scandal. She will love it—and exploit it—if Beall leaves Doug. As I've been saying all along, her apparent "defense" of Doug was just the opposite.

[uber frau]

Does Stacey's response have something to do with the breakdown of het first marriage, perhaps?

[WonderingInWA]

This is the article James McDonald wrote in 2008 that enraged Doug and ended their friendship:

"My dear brother, Voddie, has said that the Palin choice is not a pro-family choice. I agree with him. My friend, and co-laborer in the faith, Doug, has said that a woman in an office of civil authority is a curse on a nation. I agree with him as well. But there have been other things said that I do not agree with… It has been said by some friends of mine that voting for anyone beside Chuck Baldwin is a sin. Really? Brothers, I do not see this in my Bible."

familyreformation.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/voting-in-faith/

Stacy later said that she stayed in bed for weeks during this drama. She has never forgiven Doug, hence her evident glee in this scandal. She will love it—and exploit it—if Beall leaves Doug. As I've been saying all along, her apparent "defense" of Doug was just the opposite.

So Stacy is reveling in the downfall? It's hard for me to tell which side she's on. At first she turned a blind eye (or so she said -- something like what I don't know I don't need to know). There must be lots of information coming out in the inner circle now and she's changed her tune.

So Stacy was buddies with Jenni Chancey and the wrote a book together (Passionate Housewives Desperate for God). I wonder where the Chancey's stand on all this? Both Matt and Jenni Chancey are over the top about themselves from what I've seen over the years. Matt is the closest I've seen to Dougie's persona, so I'd like to see something from him.

[socuteyoullpuke]

my money is on abortion (aka murder in fundie eyes) or at least evidence that Doug pressured Hero towards getting an abortion.

I can't imagine how this potential mother and child could possibly live their lives in this community. I'm curious if she does/did keep the (potential) child if she will be praised for her bravery or looked down upon still.

[pomegranate82]

You might be onto something. If that is the case...GO BEALL! Take Dougie to the cleaners!

If they separated and the kids lived with her, Doug Phillips is a tool would look even more like a tool, something that noone would have previously thought possible. If the kids didn't want anything to do with him, what would happen? Can you be a patriarch if you don't have a family?

[hoipolloi]

I wonder where the Chancey's stand on all this? Both Matt and Jenni Chancey are over the top about themselves from what I've seen over the years. Matt is the closest I've seen to Dougie's persona, so I'd like to see something from him.

Radio silence so far, from the Chanceys. LAF continues to post shite articles from the usual VF sycophants like Kelly Crawford or the Ah the Life spinsters...

Considering how much dirty work Matt & Jennie did for VF, the silence perhaps is not surprising.

In addition to Matt's expose website Mrs. Binoculars (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www ... ulars.com/) aimed at Jen Epstein during her battle with Doug Phillips Is A Tool, there was the time Jennie tried to bitch-slap the late Barbara Curtis, only to get a smackdown herself: mommylife.net/archives/2007/05/the_doug_philli_1.html

[debrand]

On the facebook page for Reconstructionist Theonomists there is a mention of Doug Phillips in a discussion as to whether Kinist should be allowed on the site.

The mention of Doug Phillips aside, it seems very odd that these people have to find a doctrinal reason for racism to be wrong and can't simply say that they don't want to be associated with racists. I don't understand why they can't just write, "Racism is evil so we don't want racists on our site."

I don't know, Justin. I have no sufficient information to be able to judge. It is a matter of personal sin, and I don't know much about it to be able to judge, so I leave it to those who know. I was suspicious about the decision of the board and the church for some time, but then I got a word that a man whose judgment I very strongly respect confirmed the validity of that judgment, so I will trust him.

Having said that, I don't find where Phillips would have self-consciously tried to "subvert" the Covenant with his teachings. While I strongly disagree with his Patriarchy, his teachings have always been within the pale of orthodoxy. So it is rather an issue of personal sin, not an issue of an "antichrist."

Besides, I'd prefer not to mention Phillips anymore. Enough mediocre would-be theologians have taken advantage of his case to try to put out their nonsense. We don't need to do it here.

Kinism, on the other hand, is a very clear ideological subversion, a very clear case of idolatry. And no, it is not simply a "recognition of race," it is elevating race to the level of redemptive and covenantal significance, to the level of condemning marriages that God Himself approves. This is very clearly a doctrine of demons. There's nothing "Bolshevik" in condemning an idolatry.

(Besides, between the two of us, you have less right to claim to know what "Bolshevik" is, and why it is not applicable to this discussion. But I won't go there.)

Anyway, I said what I said, and I am going to excuse myself out of this. My position is clear: Kinists must be excluded and thrown out of any Christian discussion, church, or denomination. It is a doctrine of demons, and we can't afford to let them illegitimately associate their idolatry with the Church. We need to separate from them.

November 28 at 1:54pm · 6

and Justin responds:

Justin Cottrell But I think it hypocritical to stand in judgement of Kinists, and condemn to Hell, but claim Phillips is a man of God who has repented. Does.Not. Compute.

Funny I don't remember him repenting as he destroyed my friend Joe Taylor, or went after tons of other people from 2002-2009.

November 28 at 2:01pm · 1

facebook.com/groups/478280035590690/

It appears from what others have written that Justin is a kinist so the fact that Phillips' name enters the discussion is interesting. Actually, if it wasn't so boring that particular facebook page would probably be a good subject for its own thread. By all that is holy, why can't these people just say that something is wrong without such convoluted attempts to appear intelligent?

[pomegranate82]

Maybe Beall is actually going for a divorce and people are taking her side. Maybe that's the big revelation. She said she wouldn't to Doug's face but then had time to reconsider?

Only just noticed that she refers to the marriage "bed" twice in this post. Significant?

[pomegranate82]

Someone else chips in on Petey's facebook page from Cindy James (linked to a post further down the page)

I think the Braveheart scene is an apt picture of what occurred. I grieved for days. The pain was palpable. I can only imagine your and your families pain. I pray God use this trial, this excruciatingly painful trial, to sanctify you brother and to give you clarity. I pray it points you to Jesus...because that is what it has done for me. There is nothing else..no one else..no other idea..no way of being...nothing but Jesus. Christ and Christ alone....

[DomWackTroll]

Why oh why did I not think to look for Jen's Facebook page sooner??? Holy crap, you won't believe some of the stuff there. Comment from someone named Sarah Pressler, and yes, she uses this girl's name so we'll have to be careful with this one, too:

"And I hope he apologizes to ____ ____. PUBLICLY! And for those who don't know - ____ ____ was a 17yo girl who got pregnant out of wedlock - and Doug and the 'elders' made her stand before th[e] 'covenental body' an[d] confess to sins of fornication and unwed pregnancy. She was 'allowed' to remain a part of the church but was basically shunned."

This is just one of many dainty morsels. Go here to find more:

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10202447362172534

[Cleopatra7]

Only just noticed that she refers to the marriage "bed" twice in this post. Significant?

The marriage bed has a great deal of symbolic importance. In the pre modern world, a marriage bed was often the only pieces of furniture many poor people had. It represents hearth, home, and the place where marriages are consummated and babies made. For a subculture as obsessed with sex, purity, and marriage as VF, the idea of a marriage bed being defiled with adultery must be appalling. Given how much these people emphasize the public importance if marriage, I'm surprised that a newly married couple isn't escorted to bed with an entourage, like monarchs were in the middle ages.

ETA One of the posters on Jen's Facebook says Doug's abuse is "international in scope." Hyperbole or hints of the next revelation?

[Peas n carrots]

Why oh why did I not think to look for Jen's Facebook page sooner??? Holy crap, you won't believe some of the stuff there. Comment from someone named Sarah Pressler, and yes, she uses this girl's name so we'll have to be careful with this one, too:

"And I hope he apologizes to ____ ____. PUBLICLY! And for those who don't know - ____ ____ was a 17yo girl who got pregnant out of wedlock - and Doug and the 'elders' made her stand before th[e] 'covenental body' an[d] confess to sins of fornication and unwed pregnancy. She was 'allowed' to remain a part of the church but was basically shunned."

This is just one of many dainty morsels. Go here to find more:

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10202447362172534

Wow! VF warehouse was quite the den of iniquity!

Oh there's so many stories about the things that go on AT Vision Forum Headquarters! Throw a bunch of horny sexually repressed young men in a warehouse full of home schooled naieve over protected girls.... and what do you THINK is going to happen??

It's a total COMPLETE joke of a ministry and my time spent in the trenches with these families culminated in the creation of the word "Businestry." HAHAHAHA

[hoipolloi]

Why oh why did I not think to look for Jen's Facebook page sooner??? Holy crap, you won't believe some of the stuff there. Comment from someone named Sarah Pressler, and yes, she uses this girl's name so we'll have to be careful with this one, too:

"And I hope he apologizes to ____ ____. PUBLICLY! And for those who don't know - ____ ____ was a 17yo girl who got pregnant out of wedlock - and Doug and the 'elders' made her stand before th[e] 'covenental body' an[d] confess to sins of fornication and unwed pregnancy. She was 'allowed' to remain a part of the church but was basically shunned."

This is just one of many dainty morsels. Go here to find more:

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10202447362172534

THANK YOU!

Off to read..

[pomegranate82]

Why oh why did I not think to look for Jen's Facebook page sooner??? Holy crap, you won't believe some of the stuff there. Comment from someone named Sarah Pressler, and yes, she uses this girl's name so we'll have to be careful with this one, too:

"And I hope he apologizes to ____ ____. PUBLICLY! And for those who don't know - ____ ____ was a 17yo girl who got pregnant out of wedlock - and Doug and the 'elders' made her stand before th[e] 'covenental body' an[d] confess to sins of fornication and unwed pregnancy. She was 'allowed' to remain a part of the church but was basically shunned."

This is just one of many dainty morsels. Go here to find more:

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10202447362172534

This girl isn't necessarily the girl involved in the current scandal as I read it though, just someone he treated badly in the past (and it obviously comes across as so much worse now given the hypocrisy).

Good find though!

[salex]

If they separated and the kids lived with her, Doug Phillips is a tool would look even more like a tool, something that noone would have previously thought possible. If the kids didn't want anything to do with him, what would happen? Can you be a patriarch if you don't have a family?

You can if you find a new wife a new group of followers and a new locale.... not as profitable but still a stage.

[DomWackTroll]

This girl isn't necessarily the girl involved in the current scandal as I read it though, just someone he treated badly in the past (and it obviously comes across as so much worse now given the hypocrisy).

Good find though!

Right, she's a different girl-- at least I believe so. Sorry if that wasn't made clear. It seems her father (or some other relative?), Mo ____, was a deacon at Bourne Christian Assembly. This post at Ministry Watchman is endless, but he's mentioned several times in it:

mininstrywatchman.wordpress.com/2006/12/05/doug-phillips-makes-family-pay-excommunicates-without-due-process/

[mnwnwmwmn]

Stacy McDonald wrote on her own facebook page:

I've had both friends and family members who I knew cheated or had their spouse cheat on them. Of course, I was devastated for the victim but Stacy' s outrage seems more personal. Was she very close to Beall?

The only thing Stacy cares about in this situation is how can she milk it for as much attention as possible. I'm sure if they divorce, Stacy will let everyone know that she is right there by Beall's side, helping her along. If they stay together and try to rebuild their empire, Stacy will let everyone know that she defended them the entire time against gossipy onlookers and unfaithful friends. If they're permanently shunned, Stacy will let everyone know that she took a stand against his sin from the very beginning.

Stacy will do whatever is in Stacy's best interest.

(can you tell that she's one of my least favorite people in fundie-land?)