Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[VVV]

For anyone thinking that this is the end of Doug Phillips is a tool's career in the "ministry," I just want to hold up John Hagee as an example. John Hagee's (current) wife was the church secretary at a church where he was the minister and where he and his first wife attended along with their two children. After an affair with the church secretary, he divorced his first wife and married his mistress, to whom he is still married. His official bio makes it sound as if his five children (they had three together) are all from this marriage--in fact, you will find no mention of him being divorced unless you are looking at sites that oppose him in some way. Although there is a gap of several years left unaccounted for in his official bio, dating from the exposure of his affair and his divorce, up to his founding of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, he obviously landed on his feet and is raking in the big bucks as a megachurch pastor and televangelist.

Never say die in the fundie world. Pay the lady and pass the loot. :angry-banghead:

Edited for a riffle

[SamuraiKatz]

Why oh why did I not think to look for Jen's Facebook page sooner??? Holy crap, you won't believe some of the stuff there. Comment from someone named Sarah Pressler, and yes, she uses this girl's name so we'll have to be careful with this one, too:

"And I hope he apologizes to ____ ____. PUBLICLY! And for those who don't know - ____ ____ was a 17yo girl who got pregnant out of wedlock - and Doug and the 'elders' made her stand before th[e] 'covenental body' an[d] confess to sins of fornication and unwed pregnancy. She was 'allowed' to remain a part of the church but was basically shunned."

This is just one of many dainty morsels. Go here to find more:

facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10202447362172534

What about the guy? This young lady did not get pregnant alone. Doug Phillips is a tool.

[love2scrap]

Stacy reminds me of Mother Gothel...

Hair, bitchy face and all...

[mnwnwmwmn]

Stacy reminds me of Mother Gothel...

Hair, bitchy face and all...

Ooohh...Good call. I have a feeling even her peers are on to her game. She doesn't seem to be quite the insider that she was when Monstrous Regiment was released.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Was Doug the father of this young girl's baby? Or many others? He could secretly have more kids than Jimbob.

Maybe Bradrick is so upset because he thought he was the only extra partner in Doug's life, but hes been sharing his Tool with everyone.

[Clementine]

What about the guy? This young lady did not get pregnant alone. Doug Phillips is a tool.

The thought of a group of old men, church elders or board members or whatever, condemning a 17 year old pregnant girl, probably alone and terrified and shameful, is horifying. I wish them all the torment and public revealing of their sins in the world. Bring it on! What a bunch of pompous assholes.

[nelliebelle1197]

From the KISA thread:

One thing that has struck me reading about how Doug and Beall practically make out in front of people, most of the people I know who do/have done that end up having crappy marriages. We just had some friends who were kind of like Doug and Beall, where you could leave the room to get something to drink and come back to find them passionatly kissing, he seemed to worship the ground she walked on, appeared to treat her like a queen, ends up he was cheating on her with anyone and everyone who would. So I don't take the fact that Doug has been seen making out with his wife as a obvious sign all is happy in paradise.

Doug also sounds self-centered. He has created this world where he can prance around the globe in costume selling a lifestyle that doesn't really exist. He is nothing more than a snake-oil salesman.

Guess who had a crystal ball?

[ILoveJellybeans]

So true. Its not always the sign of a happy marriage. Ive had two friends who alternated between cutesy Facebook statuses about how they love their boyfriends, and how much they hate them. Also one of them was cheating on him with anything that moved (but when he even spoke to another woman, she would go mad).

The happiest relationships are the ones where you don't have to constantly remind other people that you love eachother.

[RosyDaisy]

I skimmed through the KISA thread. He isn't/wasn't just a lowly intern. I think he may be a member of one of VF's royal families. KISA, if your lurking, come back and talk to us. Your leader has fallen from grace and taking his "ministry" with him.

[Muriel Heslop]

I skimmed through the KISA thread. He isn't/wasn't just a lowly intern. I think he may be a member of one of VF's royal families. KISA, if your lurking, come back and talk to us. Your leader has fallen from grace and taking his "ministry" with him.

Someone here knows his true identity and I don't believe he's from one of the "royal families." I can't remember who knows who he is, but I don't think she will "out" his identity. Perhaps she will confirm the royalty status though.

[Palimpsest]

T.W. has dropped his "bombshell." Sex scandal involving Boerne church members. I am unimpressed -- to say nothing of quite disgusted by T.W. Eston naming names and spreading this one around.

The big scandal is that Doug failed to control and discipline a "cougar." T.W. thinks she is evil incarnate. He hints that the woman had something on Doug and was blackmailing him to stay in the church despite her seductions of innocent men. Why else did Doug not expel this Jezebel from the flock when he shamed so many other women? As I know nothing about the truth of this story I prefer not to name the woman T.W. labels and shames here.

All very sordid. jensgems.wordpress.com/

ETA.

1. At the end of the post T.W. confirms that Hero and her family left BCA in January.

2. IMO, T.W. is misusing the terms "clergy sexual abuse" and "sexual harassment" as he tells this story.

[Cleopatra7]

T.W. has dropped his "bombshell." Sex scandal involving Boerne church members. I am unimpressed -- to say nothing of quite disgusted by T.W. Eston naming names and spreading this one around.

The big scandal is that Doug failed to control and discipline a "cougar." T.W. thinks she is evil incarnate. He hints that the woman had something on Doug and was blackmailing him to stay in the church despite her seductions of innocent men. Why else did Doug not expel this Jezebel from the flock when he shamed so many other women? As I know nothing about the truth of this story I prefer not to name the woman T.W. labels and shames here.

All very sordid. jensgems.wordpress.com/

ETA.

1. At the end of the post T.W. confirms that Hero and her family left BCA in January.

2. IMO, T.W. is misusing the terms "clergy sexual abuse" and "sexual harassment" as he tells this story.

As I was reading, the song "Harper Valley PTA" went through my head. I do think it was inappropriate for this woman to be sexually harassing the various males in the congregation. It makes me think that she must have some real dirt on Doug Phillips is a tool. Also, the "members only hunting trip" sounds super-creepy, like a Jonestown "White Night." If this is only the tip of the iceberg, I wonder about all the things we don't know about.

[linnea27]

T.W. has dropped his "bombshell." Sex scandal involving Boerne church members. I am unimpressed -- to say nothing of quite disgusted by T.W. Eston naming names and spreading this one around.

The big scandal is that Doug failed to control and discipline a "cougar." T.W. thinks she is evil incarnate. He hints that the woman had something on Doug and was blackmailing him to stay in the church despite her seductions of innocent men. Why else did Doug not expel this Jezebel from the flock when he shamed so many other women? As I know nothing about the truth of this story I prefer not to name the woman T.W. labels and shames here.

All very sordid. jensgems.wordpress.com/

ETA.

1. At the end of the post T.W. confirms that Hero and her family left BCA in January.

2. IMO, T.W. is misusing the terms "clergy sexual abuse" and "sexual harassment" as he tells this story.

wtf was that. "Bombshell" my ass.

[nokidsmom]

So true. Its not always the sign of a happy marriage. Ive had two friends who alternated between cutesy Facebook statuses about how they love their boyfriends, and how much they hate them. Also one of them was cheating on him with anything that moved (but when he even spoke to another woman, she would go mad).

The happiest relationships are the ones where you don't have to constantly remind other people that you love eachother.

Oh yes, I had a family member who would get pretty lovey dovey with her husband at family events and it turned out he cheated on her with just about anyone. And I mean anyone. When she finally called it quits years later, it turned out he was unfaithful from the get-go, some of his "friends" may have been underage, and he was pretty unrepentant about it all. He and Dougie would understand each other, no doubt.

[danvillebelle]

Oh Sweet Baby Jesus, Mary and Joseph. I could give a flying fig who slept with whom at BCA. I just want Doug (Phillips is a Tool) to go down in flames all by his lonesome.

I am glad to hear that Hero and her family finally got wise and got away.

[DomWackTroll]

Not sure how to discuss this latest revelation without seeming to "slut shame," so I won't talk about her, but I can tell you that Doug had a very weird fixation on her brother. Five years after his death, Doug wrote what can only be described as a romantic tribute to him:

"The Thursday before his passing, I spent the day with _______. We had breakfast, lunch, and dinner together. We taught a class to our interns. We sat in a beautiful garden, graded papers and tests, and spoke of life and future plans… It is my belief that _______ was not only the most promising and exceptional young man of his generation, but that God raised him as a present day Timothy, a Josiah, a Samuel, and an Ezra — all wrapped up into one sparkling personality, one focused man… _______ was a bright shining star in our lives. He was my student, my assistant, my comrade, my spiritual son. I loved him so very dearly."

visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2012/11/10445/

Read the whole thing; it's very… over the top, even for Doug. I believe that it is this relationship—plus the apparent influence _______'s parents had on Doug-- that would explain any "pass" given to his sister (if indeed there was one).

Is it okay to use this guy's name? I'm not sure what to do at this point.

ETA: Doug's original obituary:

media.visionforum.com/blogs/doug/2007/11/3118/

ETAA: Irony of the day (or the century): When I tried googling his father, guess who came up? Dr. Michael DeBakey, the biological grandfather of-- wait for it-- Stacy McDonald.

[fuglyexfundy]

I think T.W.'s post shows how boys are not seen as victims with respect to older predatory women. I'm not sure all of these young men were of legal age, if what Jen's blog says is true.

Doug locking grown men into rooms, doomsday fear mongering, signing oaths to become a member of the church....I've never been trapped by a cult. I won't judge these folks. I'm glad many of the people got out. My other thoughts are that a proper science education at an accredited school is light and disinfectant. There's a reason why these Dominionists and Patriarchs demand home school education. Easier to control. (Yes, I know, some homeschoolers do a great job.)

Doug Phillips-get a real job. Stop pretending to talk to imaginary friends in order to get what you want out of life. Just get lost.

Doug Phillips is a tool!

[debrand]

Bob and Cathy Johnson recently emailed me a lengthy and detailed narrative of the years-long unimpeded sexual exploits of at Boerne Christian Assembly.

Who are Bob and Cathy Johnson?

According to Doug Phillips’ broad interpretation of The Covenant, “There are only two ways you can leave BCA. You can die or the Elders can transfer you to another church.†If you want to leave BCA to join another church you must first obtain a letter of transfer from Elder Doug Phillips and/or Doug’s sycophant-Elder Bob Sarratt. However, church transfers are seldom granted unless you have a job-related or other necessary reason to move out of state.

Of course, you could just give up the entire stupid ideology and join a regular church. I'm not certain what Phillips could do if you joined a normal church and just didn't tell him. The Epsteins also acted like Phillips had unlimited power over their lives. Maybe that is why his members seem to secretly hate him so much.

This was immediately followed by a drastic change in_______ behavior. She became inappropriately friendly with the men. Jennifer’s behavior stood in stark contrast to all the other BCA women, this in a church where modesty and a decorum of distance between the sexes was expected.

Wow. Her brother just died and no one reached out to her. No one wondered why her behavior radically changed or if she needed therapy for her grief.

In the following exert, I shortened the young man's name to J because he hasn't really done anything wrong except have sex with a young woman.

_______ father of 18 year-old J found evidence of an inappropriate romantic relationship going on between J and _________late in 2007. He took the matter to the elders of BCA, Doug Phillips and Bob Sarratt. _______complained repeatedly to Doug and Bob about ______on to young J._______ had cause to believe that J had succumbed to ________ seductions and was involved in an adulterous affair with her. From all appearances Doug and Bob took no action.

Maybe I am thinking too much like a person who is not involved in a cult but what did the dad expect the church leaders to do? Did he want his son and the woman brought before the church body to confess their sins? And why did he blame the woman for seducing his son? She wasn't in a position of power over young J and he was of age. In fact, J could join the military and die for his country at 18.

That evening in the cabin Doug spoke cryptically to the men of his doomsday end of the world prognostications. They were each to prepare their families for the resultant societal meltdown. Paranoia of an uncertain future is a common mind control technique used by cult leaders. Things were getting more cultish by the month at BCA

So they all gather together in a cabin to learn that Doug thinks the world is ending. Um...okay

_____ and son J were not at that secret camping trip. ___ was at home, remotely keeping an eye on J, and he had good cause.____was convinced that Joe was being bedded by _____y

This made me laugh even though I know it must be very confining for the young man. Imagine that, young people will have sex with each other.

The dad in this story sounds CRAZY. He hid a GPS tracking device on his son's car. All this talk about men being manly but they can't allow their sons to make their own sexual decisions and one horny married woman can turn the young man's entire training upside down. I'd say that their system doesn't work too well.

[Palimpsest]

It is interesting that Doug thought so much of her brother and family in general. While I don't rule out blackmail or her having something on Doug, there is such a thing as compassion for a troubled person.

Look I would love to stick it to Doug, and he may definitely be at fault here, but I also don't like T.W.

Everything Eston writes has to be looked at closely and through the lenses of Fundie bullcrap. This woman may not be preying on the innocent the way he makes it seem.

When you boil down T.W.'s slut shaming:

- The woman in question lost her brother in a car accident in 2007.

- After his death, her behavior changed and she stopped keeping an appropriate "distance" from men in the church.

- She was caught in flagrante delicto with a young man of 18 (over the age of consent) and the relationship seems consensual, he sneaked out to visit her home. His Dad tracked him down with a GPS installed in his truck and caught them together.

- She repented, but continued to flirt with men other than her husband.

- Doug told people not to gossip about her.

- Church members started to block her from their homes.

- She flirted with VF interns. T.W. claims she stalks them. How?

- Are they under 18?

- Were her flirtations in fact unwelcome?

- What power did she have over the interns that they could not tell her to leave their manly space?

- She committed the horrible crime of invading VF Intern male territory and going rock climbing in a skirt.

- A VF intern was shocked at the sight of her legs and tried to remonstrate with her. (Good boy. He told her that her behavior was unwelcome! That takes it into the realm of sexual harassment for the first time.)

- She continues to make men uncomfortable and "seduces" many of them. No indication as to how. Is she just flashing her ankles? Wearing low cut clothes?

- Or is she touching them? Has she tied them up and raped them?

- What power does she have over them that they cannot just tell her to go away?

- Church members ask Doug to discipline her. He tells them to piss off.

- Church members decide to leave because of the harlot in their midst.

- She is still part of the Church.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Wow, a VF cougar??????? This is so impressively unfundielike-VF is not the innocent, Godly place people might think, most worldly businesses don't have this much going on. Arent fundie women supposed to be practically asexual, submissive and never be the ones to initiate anything? Why did Doug shame the pregnant teenager but not the married woman who flirts with and has sex with younger men. She sounds like the kind of person fundies would hate and shun from their social circles. But Doug looks past this?

What is going on between the two? Are they both doing it with eachother as well? Did she catch him in the act and have had a vow of "If you don't mention me sleeping around, I wont tell Beall about Hero?"

[Cleopatra7]

I think T.W.'s post shows how boys are not seen as victims with respect to older predatory women. I'm not sure all of these young men were of legal age, if what Jen's blog says is true.

This. Without more information about the young man who was cited in the post, it's hard to know if this is a case of consenting adults or a predatory woman. I doubt that the young men in this church were any more clued in about how to spot and stand up to inappropriate behavior than the young women, which also leads to questions about the extent to which he could consent. However, it does seem like the woman in question created a hostile environment at BCA, which made many members uncomfortable. Given that other women had been shamed for doing much less, it makes one wonder.

It seems like BCA wanted to give the image that it was a "church on the hill," where all the men were manly protectors, the women demure and submissive, and the children innocent and obiedient. Instead, it's looking more like a criminal organization, where certain higher ups could take liberties with the rank and file. It's obvious that the extreme sheltering advocated by Doug Phillips is a tool grooms children to be clueless victims.

[DomWackTroll]

Who are Bob and Cathy Johnson?

Of course, you could just give up the entire stupid ideology and join a regular church. I'm not certain what Phillips could do if you joined a normal church and just didn't tell him. The Epsteins also acted like Phillips had unlimited power over their lives. Maybe that is why his members seem to secretly hate him so much.

Wow. Her brother just died and no one reached out to her. No one wondered why her behavior radically changed or if she needed therapy for her grief.

In the following exert, I shortened the young man's name to J because he hasn't really done anything wrong except have sex with a young woman.

Maybe I am thinking too much like a person who is not involved in a cult but what did the dad expect the church leaders to do? Did he want his son and the woman brought before the church body to confess their sins? And why did he blame the woman for seducing his son? She wasn't in a position of power over young J and he was of age. In fact, J could join the military and die for his country at 18.

So they all gather together in a cabin to learn that Doug thinks the world is ending. Um...okay

This made me laugh even though I know it must be very confining for the young man. Imagine that, young people will have sex with each other.

The dad in this story sounds CRAZY. He hid a GPS tracking device on his son's car. All this talk about men being manly but they can't allow their sons to make their own sexual decisions and one horny married woman can turn the young man's entire training upside down. I'd say that their system doesn't work too well.

Yeah, can anyone explain to me why these people act like they're being monitored by the CIA, and like these "covenant contracts" mean anything? No church worth joining is going to care what some nutty cult says about you anyway.

Please understand that I'm not talking about kids who have been raised and brainwashed into this. I'm talking about grown adults who joined BCA and within months realized, "Hey, something's really wrong here." Well, just leave, FGS. "Process" it all later, but for now JUST LEAVE.

[debrand]

Many of the young men were under 18 and young ladies as well. However, to my knowledge nothing ever happened that could be considered criminal with any of those….inappropriate comments, etc. definitely, but nothing that would stick as criminal. For example, one time _______ had her hands all over a young man at an event, but it would be hard to prove that what she was doing was criminal. She is a very slick operator and she grooms young men by “touching†them and by testing their responses to her comments. Knowing _______y, the “touching†is sexual in nature and part of the grooming of victims, but at the same time, it doesn’t cross the criminal line, e.g., she would run her hand down a young man’s arm or rest her hand on his shoulder, etc. To an outsider, this would look like the tender touch of a mother but to those of us that know __________ appetite for young men, it is definitely sexual.[/quote]

This is from the comments. I wonder if the group is about to throw her under the bus to protect Doug?

TW gave no indication that the woman was with men younger than 18. Also, I am still not certain that this woman did anything more than have an affair with a willing J. It is interesting that the young ladies are supposed to be submissive and powerless but are expected to prevent male advances but young men are helpless. If the woman in question really was grooming young boys for sexual purposes that is horrible but because of this group's messed up view of human seuality and gender, it is difficult to know what exactly is happening here.

[uber frau]

Yeah, can anyone explain to me why these people act like they're being monitored by the CIA, and like these "covenant contracts" mean anything? No church worth joining is going to care what some nutty cult says about you anyway.

Please understand that I'm not talking about kids who have been raised and brainwashed into this. I'm talking about grown adults who joined BCA and within months realized, "Hey, something's really wrong here." Well, just leave, FGS. "Process" it all later, but for now JUST LEAVE.

The same reason some ppl remain in abusive relationships. Spiritual abuse is real and can have similar psychological effects to other kinds of abuse. Never underestimate the power of the fear of hell. Once you have convinced a person that you have the answers to a very big problem and that nobody else has, ppl will stick by you, despite the fact that they might have a gut feeling that something is 'off' (remember that, in Calvinism, gut feelings are a part of the original, sinful nature and are not to be trusted, preferably quashed) or even take issue with some of the more minor practices.

Incidentally, these kind of membership contracts (where you can leave only if excommunicated or if you request to have your membership moved to another approved church) are actually quite common in Fundy and Orthodox Calvinism.

[Cleopatra7]

Yeah, can anyone explain to me why these people act like they're being monitored by the CIA, and like these "covenant contracts" mean anything? No church worth joining is going to care what some nutty cult says about you anyway.

Please understand that I'm not talking about kids who have been raised and brainwashed into this. I'm talking about grown adults who joined BCA and within months realized, "Hey, something's really wrong here." Well, just leave, FGS. "Process" it all later, but for now JUST LEAVE.

Jen has referenced "men in black" who acted as security for Doug Phillips is a tool. I can't speak about BCA, but in People's Temple, there were armed security guards during services, harsh public discipline sessions, and the "White Nights." PT members were also forced to sign false confessions where they admitted to things like child molestation and murder, which could be sent to the police in case they tried to leave. Based on what I'm reading, I think Doug Phillips is a tool took some pages from the Jim Jones cult leader playbook.