Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[thoughtful]

Thanks for the exact quotes, Marian.

[DomWackTroll]

Much of what I remember about the KISA thread is how he said (believed? who knows?) that Doug was a sweet, blithely oblivious, ethical guy who wouldn't even understand the jokes made here about his Manly Manliness garbage.

Those were not his exact words, but it was the impression I got.

Maybe KISA was one of Doug's followers who really didn't have any sleaziness radar, or maybe he knew the score and was one of the people covering for Doug.

Yeah, I'm getting pretty nauseated by re-reading that thread. He repeatedly calls Doug "naive" to the ways of the world (!) and talks about how "passionately in love" he is with Beall. "Many interns and VF employees have caught them kissing in private."

Please excuse me while I throw up into my gender-specific, Lady Lydia-crafted barf bucket!

[Palimpsest]

NONONONO! THE ONLY PERSON TO BLAME IS DOUG IS A TOOL PHILLIPS. awomansfreedominchrist even suggests that Hero may have initiated the liaison. I DON'T GIVE A DAMN IF HERO WALTZED NAKED IN FRONT OF DOUG IS A TOOL PHILLIPS; HE'S THE ONLY PERSON TO BLAME BECAUSE IT WAS HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP HIS PANTS ZIPPED.

SALLIE CAN STICK THIS POST UP HER ASS. :violence-rambo: :violence-rambo: :violence-rambo: :violence-rambo:

rant over

Did you read the whole thing? Sallie comes out in very much the right place further down the page.

But wait! Sallie, how can you say that? I thought this blog was about fighting for women? How can you blame the women? They didn’t have a choice. They are so indoctrinated that they don’t even know they have a choice to stand up to him or reject him.

BINGO.

And with that you have proved my point.

This entire system is toxic to women. Poison. Horrible. Oppressive. Wrong. Unbiblical. Evil.

Do you want more words?

Filthy. Destructive. Wasteful. Disgusting.

Do you want me to put them in all caps so I’m shouting?

Yes.

THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS TOXIC. HORRIBLE. OPPRESSIVE. WRONG. UNBIBLICAL. EVIL.

Either the women are to blame or they are victims of a terrible situation.

Make a choice.

Either the women around him are partially to blame or they are victims of an incredibly unhealthy cultic theological system.

She does have to clarify a couple of times in the comments but she definitely sees the women in this case as victims and not to blame at all.

[Cleopatra7]

Did you read the whole thing? Sallie comes out in very much the right place further down the page.

She does have to clarify a couple of times in the comments but she definitely sees the women in this case as victims and not to blame at all.

I think what Sallie is trying to say is that, given how much VF ideology infantilized and disempowered women, Phillips apologists can't claim that the victim(s) was a Jezebel out to destroy a "godly" man, unless they're willing to admit that the entire patriarchal system is rotten to the core.

[debrand]

Doug Phillips, bless his heart, is as clueless as any human being could possibly be about the gayness of those posts. He's a bit like a little kid, he'll say some of the most perverted things with double meanings you could ever imagine. I used to think it was intentional, but after pointing one out to him, he was genuinely shocked and dismayed, and eyed me leerily as though anyone who could know such filth shouldn't be trusted. He's probably right.

Perhaps Doug was fishing for a naive young man/woman to groom for his own uses. KISA might have unknowingly saved himself from a lot of embarrassment by accidentally pointing out that Phillips was being inappropriate. KISA drank the kool aid so deeply that he assumed that Doug really was unaware of the sexuality of his statements but I find it difficult to believe that a middle aged, college educated, father of eight would be as ignorant as KISA believes.

[nelliebelle1197]

Well, when Sacks made that comment, it was almost exactly a month since Doug's first statement. I don't find it that strange, but I can see what you're getting at. It's not that I'd put it past Peter to try to manipulate the timeline, but I've never even heard of this Sacks guy until yesterday. Peter's attempts at damage control are usually far more hamfisted, so if he was behind it, I'd expect Susan Bradrick or Phillip Bradrick to post something like "What you've been going through in the LAST MONTH since you found out a MONTH ago..." He's not known for his subtlety, and I completely missed it the first time I read Sacks' post.

I think the "last month" reference could also be a little hand slappy, to be honest. Dude, it was A MONTH AGO and this is coming out like it just happened yesterday? Quit whining and be A MAN, BRADRICK!1!!.

[noisyMouse]

Based on the comments I'm seeing at Jen's Gems and Spiritual Sounding Board, even the VF faithful suspect that something really big is about to drop. Someone at the latter said that the scandal seems to be about something even bigger than sex or money. What could that be? :think:

I am really and unreasonably excited about Monday.

So, what IS bigger than sex or money?

Looking to the 10 commandments, he did already break at least no. 7 and 8 (and maybe 10). So we have 7 - 8 others to look forward to!

Well, maybe he worked on Sunday.. But counting that one out, either Doug has a literal sceleton in the closet (like his evil bother), or maybe it's about faith. In my boldest dreams, he is an atheist con artist, but as that is maybe not that likely. So possibly, he is at odds in some (for everyone outside of their microcosmos) minor detail of scripture-interpretation.. or to find middle ground: a bigger one (which could it be?).

Or he was caught with another man, which might be seen as much much worse than preying on a child/woman or stealing money in his cult(ure)).

I'm so excited!

On a different note: his oldest son just watched "The Book Thief" and liked it. Well, well secular world..

[RachelB]

I am really and unreasonably excited about Monday.

So, what IS bigger than sex or money?

Looking to the 10 commandments, he did already break at least no. 7 and 8 (and maybe 10). So we have 7 - 8 others to look forward to!

Well, maybe he worked on Sunday.. But counting that one out, either Doug has a literal sceleton in the closet (like his evil bother), or maybe it's about faith. In my boldest dreams, he is an atheist con artist, but as that is maybe not that likely. So possibly, he is at odds in some (for everyone outside of their microcosmos) minor detail of scripture-interpretation.. or to find middle ground: a bigger one (which could it be?).

Or he was caught with another man, which might be seen as much much worse than preying on a child/woman or stealing money in his cult(ure)).

I'm so excited!

On a different note: his oldest son just watched "The Book Thief" and liked it. Well, well secular world..

After spending some time reading at Puritan Board, I would say that in their world, doctrinal "wrongness" trumps all else, including blatantly criminal activity. If Doug were caught on camera admitting that he believes in universal salvation and that this whole Calvinism thing is full of crap, I think we would see exploding heads aplenty.

That is to say, I'm not sure that TW and company get riled up about the same things that we do.

[NurseNell]

I am really and unreasonably excited about Monday.

So, what IS bigger than sex or money?

Looking to the 10 commandments, he did already break at least no. 7 and 8 (and maybe 10). So we have 7 - 8 others to look forward to!

Well, maybe he worked on Sunday.. But counting that one out, either Doug has a literal sceleton in the closet (like his evil bother), or maybe it's about faith. In my boldest dreams, he is an atheist con artist, but as that is maybe not that likely. So possibly, he is at odds in some (for everyone outside of their microcosmos) minor detail of scripture-interpretation.. or to find middle ground: a bigger one (which could it be?).

Or he was caught with another man, which might be seen as much much worse than preying on a child/woman or stealing money in his cult(ure)).

I'm so excited!

Either a same sex relationship and/or a child born to one or more of his female relationships.

[Peas n carrots]

Did Dougie kill someone?

[Palimpsest]

Hard to tell what the bombshell is going to be. JensGems have hinted at Doug's secret army of black clad armed to the teeth enforcers already . . .

Or it could be something really trivial to us that they think is huge.

My hope -- solid evidence that Doug Phillips secretly believes in evolution! :twisted:

[WonderingInWA]

Hard to tell what the bombshell is going to be. JensGems have hinted at Doug's secret army of black clad armed to the teeth enforcers already . . .

Or it could be something really trivial to us that they think is huge.

My hope -- solid evidence that Doug Phillips secretly believes in evolution! :twisted:

I haven't read everything at Jen's Gems -- what is a "secret army of black clad armed to the teeth enforcers"?

[artschooldropout]

Drugs/Arms trafficking? Would explain all the constant trips abroad. Plus VF owns tonnes of warehouses, etc. What better front for a drug ring than a wholesome homeschool service provider? Plus, he does live relatively close to the US-Mexico border. It would also explain why he seems to have a personal militia

[Palimpsest]

I haven't read everything at Jen's Gems -- what is a "secret army of black clad armed to the teeth enforcers"?

Sorry I don't have time to find the exact quotes right now (making dinner) but T.W. Eston knows. He confirmed that Jen was subjected to intimidation tactics by the inner circle, and I believe that. He then gave a second example (paraphraze) of a man he "personally knew" who was removed from church by black clad men during a service and reduced to a trembling wreck. When someone asked him in the comments why people did not resist or report these things to law enforcement he claimed that Doug's army was trained in weapons, armed and dangerous so people were too scared.

He may have been talking about Bradrick and Co. :shrug:

[WonderingInWA]

Sorry I don't have time to find the exact quotes right now (making dinner) but T.W. Eston knows. He confirmed that Jen was subjected to intimidation tactics by the inner circle, and I believe that. He then gave a second example (paraphraze) of a man he "personally knew" who was removed from church by black clad men during a service and reduced to a trembling wreck. When someone asked him in the comments why people did not resist or report these things to law enforcement he claimed that Doug's army was trained in weapons, armed and dangerous so people were too scared.

He may have been talking about Bradrick and Co. :shrug:

Thanks. Wow, interesting. Yeah, Bradrick! and his ninjas! LOL.

[formergothardite]

Drugs/Arms trafficking? Would explain all the constant trips abroad. Plus VF owns tonnes of warehouses, etc. What better front for a drug ring than a wholesome homeschool service provider? Plus, he does live relatively close to the US-Mexico border. It would also explain why he seems to have a personal militia

This would make an amazing movie. :lol:

[gustava]

I think what Sallie is trying to say is that, given how much VF ideology infantilized and disempowered women, Phillips apologists can't claim that the victim(s) was a Jezebel out to destroy a "godly" man, unless they're willing to admit that the entire patriarchal system is rotten to the core.

I did read the whole thing and still think she's on thin ice. I'll re-read however.

ETA: I did not read the comments so will do so.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think the thing bigger than sex or money is probably not murder...although we don't know Doug. It could be possible.

Im going with him getting "Hero" pregnant and making her get an abortion.

In fundieland, that is probably the most evil thing anyone can do and would be as bad as him actually killing a child.

[Columbia]

Based on how Geoff Botkin looks in the newly-notorious "Christian rappers are disobedient cowards" video on ncfic.org, I think KISA was correct - something is going on with him, health-wise. He has that unwell, angular look that men get when they have heart disease (my 1st guess), or some other chronic illness. He is not aging well.

I wonder if that's why the Botkinettes have been so quite in recent years. They're busy trying to take care of a sick father and figure out what would happen to the women if something happened to their men.

I think the thing bigger than sex or money is probably not murder...although we don't know Doug. It could be possible.

Im going with him getting "Hero" pregnant and making her get an abortion.

In fundieland, that is probably the most evil thing anyone can do and would be as bad as him actually killing a child.

Do you think so? I can't decide between an abortion, raping a child, or gay sex. I feel like a gay affair would be first, an abortion second, and raping a child third. The kid can always seduce him, you know.

Anyone else want to rate those three?

[ThisOlGirl]

Did Dougie kill someone?

While I certainly hope Doug Phillips is a tool didn't kill anyone, that comment made me laugh/snort. I've never thought of Doug Phillips is a tool as a particularly violent person. I do think he'd get someone to do his dirty work for him, because he's a coward. Dougie would shit his General Patton costume if he had to actually get his hands dirty and kill someone.

[zandria]

I haven't read everything at Jen's Gems -- what is a "secret army of black clad armed to the teeth enforcers"?

Texas has concealed carry, and a bunch of the VF'ers are known to carry all the time, like Kim-in-a-shoe. I'd guess Doug's enforcers are just some guys who do concealed carry in a barely-concealed way and like to act tough and intimidate people on Doug's request.

[gustava]

I did read the whole thing and still think she's on thin ice. I'll re-read however.

ETA: I did not read the comments so will do so.

OK. I read it wrong, though she could have been more clear from the getgo.

[Cleopatra7]

I wonder if that's why the Botkinettes have been so quite in recent years. They're busy trying to take care of a sick father and figure out what would happen to the women if something happened to their men.

Do you think so? I can't decide between an abortion, raping a child, or gay sex. I feel like a gay affair would be first, an abortion second, and raping a child third. The kid can always seduce him, you know.

Anyone else want to rate those three?

1. Abortion - given how hard-core VF is about abortion (see the controversy about ectopic pregnancies), forcing someone to have an abortion would be like a nuclear bomb going off in the patriarchy world. For the hypothetical woman involved, having an abortion would be particularly devasting, as she would feel like she has committed a sin that can never be forgiven in the eyes of god or man. I doubt that this is what happened, but if this is true, then Doug Phillips is a tool really is vile.

2. Gay sex - Not as "nuclear" as a forced abortion, but since most fundies think homosexuality is the worst sin ever, the tool's followers would be horrified. I bet Doug Phillips is a tool could spin it to say that "the devil made him do it" or something.

3. Child rape/molestation - given how other very conservative churches treat victims of child abuse/neglect/molestation, I bet that Doug Phillips is tool could also claim that he was "seduced." Sadly, I could even see him returning to "ministry" if this is the case. Fortunately, I'm doubtful how much access Doug Phillips is a tool would have to other people's underage children, so this is probably not the case (I hope).

[hoipolloi]

And Stacy McDonald has commented again at Peter's FB page:

Stacy McDonald: Jonathan Kayser - While Facebook may not seem like the place for something like this, keep in mind that Peter has been through a very public, traumatizing, life-changing event - and is still in the middle of it. He has stood up for the truth and been kicked in the teeth - which is actually exactly what we should expect when we stand for anything.

Everyone is reeling. Give him a break. He isn't gloating; he is grieving. I pray that God will give him and others the strength to defend the God-given message that has been so grievously slandered by the sin of one man.

Peter Bradrick - We are and have been praying for you. Susan Bradrick - My heart is breaking for you and your mama's heart. I am praying for you as well, sweet sister.

[thoughtful]