My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding

[JumpingtheSnark]

We had Irish Traveler Americans (does that make sense?) come through my neighborhood and pave driveways last summer. We live in Massachusetts, and they were up from somewhere in the south.

My driveway needs to be done, but I have a firm rule against hiring unsolicited labor. They were sort of ok and friendly, but not overly nice or nasty. So, I guess average? My neighbor, an elderly lady had her driveway done and it was an adequate job, not great not horrible and just a hair expensive.

So they get a meh from me. Just like most everyone.

I do think it criminal to pull a child from school to work or clean the house, and I wish there was some kind of educational outreach program to help that.

[Sola]

Read Debrand's response.

Keep in mind that, living in a place where we don't really see any real, live Southerners, I can point to people around me who would say exactly the same thing about people living in the South - Deliverance and Toddlers and Tiaras and old civil rights footage doesn't paint a pretty picture. If you are about to open your mouth to yell "but we're not all like that!", well, reread what you wrote and think about media stereotypes.

Genie, I understand you are from Alabama. Should I think that everyone from Alabama is a racist and homophobic bigot?

[tabitha2]

Well partoner, ahm from Texas and ah ride horses past cactus and Klue Klux meetins ever day to ma work on the South Fork with JR.We dun have no fancy cities her er nothin but them cows sure is warm to cuddle with boy howdy.I's hopin that a-rab prezident keeps Amurica for 100% Amuricans lak me!! boy howdy.

...Is the impression northerners and the media have of Texans to one extent or another.

[reds]

The Russian Mennonites are in the same kind of thing. Looking back at the history my grandparents were always moving around and ducking rent/creditors.

My father may have never felt the need to duck a creditor but he was a wanderer until my mother said she wasnt moving again.

I did my fair share of moving about until i was married. Taking off across the country on a whim. I still cant seem to keep a job for longer than 3 years before i get restless.

Sometimes it can just be part of a DNA.

But my kids go to school, will be going to college and i will be stationary in a perminate home until they are grown. Responsibility trumps wandering.

[Sola]

Well partoner, ahm from Texas and ah ride horses past cactus and Klue Klux meetins ever day to ma work on the South Fork with JR.We dun have no fancy cities her er nothin but them cows sure is warm to cuddle with boy howdy.I's hopin that a-rab prezident keeps Amurica for 100% Amuricans lak me!! boy howdy.

...Is the impression northerners and the media have of Texans to one extent or another.

And don't all Texans wear cowboy hats and boots? I mean EVERYBODY knows that right...

[valsa]

Well partoner, ahm from Texas and ah ride horses past cactus and Klue Klux meetins ever day to ma work on the South Fork with JR.We dun have no fancy cities her er nothin but them cows sure is warm to cuddle with boy howdy.I's hopin that a-rab prezident keeps Amurica for 100% Amuricans lak me!! boy howdy.

...Is the impression northerners and the media have of Texans to one extent or another.

Needs more "Yee haw!!!'

[dawbs]

Jeez. My brother got a DWI and it completely rattled our whole family. I know very few people with criminal record. Maybe because I know so many lawyers?

It can also have to do with $.

Because if you have some (just some, not a lot :), it's a helluva lot easier to have arrests go-away instead of turning into convictions. (recent thought-provoking article on misdemeanors that highlights some of that: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... rged_.html)

To back up a couple of pages about 'travelers' and the like in the US and discrimination, I have no doubt it exists--but it's probably not hugely visible in most communities.

I may have shared this before, but, growing up, I lived out of an RV most of the summer. We were 'overnighters'--meaning we didn't pick a place and stay for a week or 2, we picked a place, stayed a night, and left the next morning.

There were places (especially on the east coast, FWIW, where many of the "RV Parks" were 'summer homes' for people with money) where there was a definite social structure--there were people who 'summered', there were 'weekenders' (who came out for weekends but went home for the work-week) and there were 'overnighters'--also called gypsies and a handful of slurs I dont remember. People would talk to us, find out we were 'overnighters' and forbid their kids from talking to us. Kids would tease our dog, throw rocks at us, etc. we were called theives. We (kids--I think they were more polite to my parents) weren't allowed in 'the camp store' unless we showed our money first

If this is what my family (educated adults, polite kids, very very white, just to paint the picture) dealt with, I can imagine the treatment people who were 'really' roma got.

[reds]

We called this vacation. We would travel with an RV for 2 weeks every summer for dad to visit relatives spread across BC, SASK and AB. We would pull up, spend the night, most we would stay was 3 nights. Never had anyone call us names or anything. I always thought that the people who stayed in one place for the summer were weird and boring.

[dawbs]

We called this vacation. We would travel with an RV for 2 weeks every summer for dad to visit relatives spread across BC, SASK and AB. We would pull up, spend the night, most we would stay was 3 nights. Never had anyone call us names or anything. I always thought that the people who stayed in one place for the summer were weird and boring.

It wasn't MOST places...just a few.

But they sure as hell stuck out.

Considering we spent 1-2 months of each summer doing this through 45 states and most of Canada, I really can say that the bad treatment was relatively rare--but I also know that I was oblivious to a lot of it as a kid--so the fact that it happened often enough for me to remember it probably means it wasn't *that* uncommon.

[reds]

It wasn't MOST places...just a few.

But they sure as hell stuck out.

Considering we spent 1-2 months of each summer doing this through 45 states and most of Canada, I really can say that the bad treatment was relatively rare--but I also know that I was oblivious to a lot of it as a kid--so the fact that it happened often enough for me to remember it probably means it wasn't *that* uncommon.

I dont remember anything like that happening to us as kids. But the longest trip we took was 6 weeks to the yukon and then down through bc to home in alberta. I was also socially awkward and prefered my own company and always sent my sister first to meet people. lol.

To me your vacations sounds like my idea of a good time! lol Even now i cant stomach the thought of lying on a beach for a week. ugh.

[JesusFightClub]

Totally agree, reds! I love hot countries but I hate the beach and it hates me. I burn a LOT and get really bored. I like wandering around in cities looking at stuff, and markets.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I dunno. Having an RV only to park it in ONE PLACE for the summer does sound awfully boring, even if posh and supposedly respectable.

I've lived in "permanent" housing (apartments, and more recently a house) my entire life, but when we travelled around in a vehicle, the entire point was to DRIVE AROUND. Usually for us it's about camping in the woods mostly, then occasionally renting a room in bigger cities. I'm really hoping to take a road trip camping to Newfoundland hopefully some summer soon.

Like JesusFightClub I too enjoy wandering around cities, if I'm anywhere near one. Forget the resort, I just want shop where local people shop and boggle at the toothpaste tubes with funny writing on 'em and stuff! Hit up a bookstore and buy an issue of "Peanuts" (usually there's always "Peanuts") in whatever the local language is, try the beer...

[dawbs]

I thought it sounded boring too, and my family vacations were all sorts of shades of awesome.

(I have toured more factories than anyone I know--excepting, of course, my sisters. Because if you're in a strange city without cash, you find out what factories will give tours for free. Incredibly educational :)

But it wasn't 'done' in some places--and I do understand that it does/did make for interesting social nuances when 'overnighters' come into tight knit communities. I mean, it's hard to make super-friendships w/ people outside the family when you wont ever see them again. Then again, some of those people we knew for 48 hours are still on my parent's Christmas card lists :)

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Heh. I like factory tours too (and power plants!). Also whatever oddball museums, particularly town museums in tiny towns in the middle of nowhere. If the town has lots of railroad history, bonus!

We'd probably get along great nerding it up on a vacation :)

[dawbs]

Time for FJ road-trip :)

(I live in a tiny town w/ a decent historical museum I rarely see...although our railroad history is minimal, the old depot has been made into a great little breakfast place :)

[adidas]

As inaccurately as the media is portraying the Travellers in the Big Fat Gypsy Wedding show, there are aspects that they're disturbingly quiet on. There was a study done in Wales - quoting from the Equality and Human Rights Commission, 2007, as referenced by the Guardian (link to follow but it was already given earlier in the thread):

The study in Wrexham found that 61% of married English Gypsy women and 81% of Irish Travellers had experienced domestic abuse. And a significant number of those women who had reported the abuse appeared to have suffered more severe and sustained violence than those within mainstream communities.

The very high suicide rate and marital rape are issues they wouldn't dare touch in the TV show either.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... life-women

This is from the DailyMail so not exactly the best journalism around - but forced marriage is a problem too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... HOURS.html

[adidas]

Didn't a Traveller turn up here at FJ? It was a while ago. She defended their lifestyle but left after she admitted that her husband was reading her posts and giving her permission to be here.

[Peas n carrots]

Heh. I like factory tours too (and power plants!). Also whatever oddball museums, particularly town museums in tiny towns in the middle of nowhere. If the town has lots of railroad history, bonus!

We'd probably get along great nerding it up on a vacation :)

Oh I would like to join. I've been dying to go to e Mt. Horeb Mustard Museum, which was recently moved to Middleton, Wi. How about a road trip to Wall Drug? It's really not all that wonderful these days (a bit run down in my opinion) but worth a visit.

So getting back on topic...I have mixed feelings on Roma and Travellers. I think there is definitely enough people within the community to perpetuate negative stereotypes which hardly helps. For example, I have a friend who manages a hotel and had a group of Travellers stay last summer. She had problems more or less with the kids....they were not in school so they ran amok around the hotel throwing rocks into the swimming pool, or playing mean games on the staff (their favorite was to follow around the maid with crackers and crumble them over freshly vacuumed carpet). The parents, of course didn't discipline their children for their actions, nor find ways to engage their children so they wouldn't be a nuisance to the staff.

So I have no idea whet you even begin to work on building better relationships when lots of people on both sides are unwilling to reach out. In some ways Roma/Travellers are like the Amish to me....closed culture, serious patriarchy, little emphasis on education - although I respect having your own cultural beliefs there are a lot of things I take issue with.

[Peas n carrots]

As inaccurately as the media is portraying the Travellers in the Big Fat Gypsy Wedding show, there are aspects that they're disturbingly quiet on. There was a study done in Wales - quoting from the Equality and Human Rights Commission, 2007, as referenced by the Guardian (link to follow but it was already given earlier in the thread):

The very high suicide rate and marital rape are issues they wouldn't dare touch in the TV show either.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... life-women

This is from the DailyMail so not exactly the best journalism around - but forced marriage is a problem too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... HOURS.html

Those are terrible stats if accurate. I imagine it's hard to leave though....from what I understand you are essentially shunned if you do. Any the community is so closed, where do you go if you want to leave? Not to mention that lots of young women probably expect that some level of abuse is normal in a marriage.

[debrand]

Heh. I like factory tours too (and power plants!). Also whatever oddball museums, particularly town museums in tiny towns in the middle of nowhere. If the town has lots of railroad history, bonus!

We'd probably get along great nerding it up on a vacation :)

I'd love visiting those places but I also like visiting old graveyards. So, yeah, I'm weird. For some weird reason, I like reading the gravestones. We took a road trip once just to visit the graves of Chang and Eng Bunker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_and_Eng_Bunker

Several years ago we visited Walls Drug. It was so wonderfully corny that it just made me happy.

[Peas n carrots]

I'd love visiting those places but I also like visiting old graveyards. So, yeah, I'm weird. For some weird reason, I like reading the gravestones. We took a road trip once just to visit the graves of Chang and Eng Bunker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_and_Eng_Bunker

Several years ago we visited Walls Drug. It was so wonderfully corny that it just made me happy.

Oh yes graveyards are always interesting and free lol. A few weeks ago I visited Greyfriars in Edinburgh, which is the ultimate creepy graveyard in my opinion. Lots of graves have skulls and crossbones on them. There is even a poltergeist that supposedly haunts the McKenzie mausoleum. Pere Lachaise in Paris is great too...Jim Morrison isn't the only famous person buried there either. Apparently when the cemetery was first plotted Napoleon had a lot of famous people dug up and reburied there, thinking that celebrity graves would attract families to having their families buried there lol.

[formergothardite]

Didn't a Traveller turn up here at FJ? It was a while ago. She defended their lifestyle but left after she admitted that her husband was reading her posts and giving her permission to be here.

Yes. And there were lots of handslapping over people not being "nice" enough to her.

[reds]

Oh I would like to join. I've been dying to go to e Mt. Horeb Mustard Museum, which was recently moved to Middleton, Wi. How about a road trip to Wall Drug? It's really not all that wonderful these days (a bit run down in my opinion) but worth a visit.

So getting back on topic...I have mixed feelings on Roma and Travellers. I think there is definitely enough people within the community to perpetuate negative stereotypes which hardly helps. For example, I have a friend who manages a hotel and had a group of Travellers stay last summer. She had problems more or less with the kids....they were not in school so they ran amok around the hotel throwing rocks into the swimming pool, or playing mean games on the staff (their favorite was to follow around the maid with crackers and crumble them over freshly vacuumed carpet). The parents, of course didn't discipline their children for their actions, nor find ways to engage their children so they wouldn't be a nuisance to the staff.

So I have no idea whet you even begin to work on building better relationships when lots of people on both sides are unwilling to reach out. In some ways Roma/Travellers are like the Amish to me....closed culture, serious patriarchy, little emphasis on education - although I respect having your own cultural beliefs there are a lot of things I take issue with.

That sounds cool.. I am in.

We are planning on taking the kids to Barkerville soon, goldmining museum in BC.

My favorite that i will remember for a long time is my husband taking me to Molly's Reach. It is a resturant that was the set of the Beachcombers. (For us Canucks that watched it.) We had lunch there. Was awesome.

[geniebelle6901]

As inaccurately as the media is portraying the Travellers in the Big Fat Gypsy Wedding show, there are aspects that they're disturbingly quiet on. There was a study done in Wales - quoting from the Equality and Human Rights Commission, 2007, as referenced by the Guardian (link to follow but it was already given earlier in the thread):

The very high suicide rate and marital rape are issues they wouldn't dare touch in the TV show either.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... life-women

This is from the DailyMail so not exactly the best journalism around - but forced marriage is a problem too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... HOURS.html

THIS! How is female submission, blatant sexism and misogyny, racial slurs like gorger (would anybody here call Voddie Bauchman the N word), lack of education, teen brides, arranging what amounts to street fighting, abuse, poor sanitation, etc make gypsies and travellers any different than the fundies we snark on? And I'm not even taking about the shows here. Given all of that how can anybody say that culture needs to needs to be preserved? As for AL and rednecks, me included...yes need to give up our ass-backwards ways and move forward to the 21st century.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

In some ways Roma/Travellers are like the Amish to me....closed culture, serious patriarchy, little emphasis on education - although I respect having your own cultural beliefs there are a lot of things I take issue with.

I find it interesting that when various groups are criticized for pulling their kids out of school, encouraging their kids to drop out, or whatever it is, it seems that the Amish are largely given a pass.

People seem to romanticize their lifestyle in a way they don't extend to the other groups, though personally I think the Amish lack of education is every bit as problematic, particularly in the modern days when "they'll just go work on family farms and live the romantic lifestyle" just isn't as sustainable (any more than is the "well, he'll just go work in the mill like his father did" holds for secular dropout kids).

Same with the religious groups who don't do any secular education in their schools after that similar age.

Also, definitely the Mustard Museum!!