My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding

[geniebelle6901]

Whatever, I'm done arguing. Anyway.....if anybody is interested here's a link to Pat Baby's sister's obituary a friend of mine found:

http://www.jeffeberhartfuneralhome.com/ ... 72102Kelly

And here's a link to an article about her husband who supposedly killed her:

http://www.examiner.com/article/shay-me ... ed-on-bond

ETA second link

[donks]

Holy fuckin' shit. Polk County is literally right over there *points out my window*

This is too close for comfort.....

[geniebelle6901]

Yep, it is. Redneck gypsies...that's about as ass-backwards as you can get!

[Witsec7]

Yep, it is. Redneck gypsies...that's about as ass-backwards as you can get!

You fucking disgust me.

edited to add fucking

[JesusFightClub]

What experiencedd said.

I know somebody who was murdered. She was Scottish and killed by a Scot, who is now doing life in prison for it. I guess according to your logic that makes Scotland a culture of murderers.

[Witsec7]

I stayed out of this thread since it was in the able hands of Former Gothardite and Lissar. Frankly I'd never watch this show if people paid me. The 'G' word is the equivalent to the "N" word as far as I'm concerned. Lissar and FG eloquently pointed out that there were issues of violence within the patriarchal culture of the Rom and Travelers. No one has denied that many of their kids miss out on educations and opportunities.

Fucking asswipe Genie has got to come into a thread one more time and exert her ignorance and prejudice. I'm just fucking sick of her generalizations whether they be about accented people, people of color or the Rom and Travelers.

Edited to add: Carry on. I was getting pretty backed up.

[geniebelle6901]

Ok, if I'm so wrong, please point out the so called "good" that I'm missing other than food or music and tell me how you would fix their problems? Oh, and trust me Pat Baby and his clan are small potatoes compared to Murphy Village, NC or White Settlement, TX.

[MaroonMandy]

Question about the obit for Pat Baby's sister: what's with the "Miss" and "Master" titles for her kids? Is it a cultural thing or a regional thing? I'm from Texas, so we're kinda in the South, but not really Southern and I've never seen that.

[MaroonMandy]

Ok, if I'm so wrong, please point out the so called "good" that I'm missing other than food or music and tell me how you would fix their problems? Oh, and trust me Pat Baby and his clan are small potatoes compared to Murphy Village, NC or White Settlement, TX.

I don't know why I'm even bothering with this but...

What exactly is fucking wrong with White Settlement? I grew up about 90 minutes from there and my sister and brother-in-law are one town away from WS. Yes, there are some Gypsy families there, but we didn't even know they were Gypsy until we were told. I've gotten my hair and nails done in salons at the same time as some of the girls (we only knew they were Gypsies because my sister and I had been watching the BBC series and picked up on their use of the word "gorger"). Were they loud and a bit annoying? Yes, but most teenage girls are at some point.

Also, and I'm sure this point will be lost on you, not everyone in White Settlement is a Gypsy so I doubt they would be impressed with your generalization.

So yeah, small potatoes that.

ETA: I'm using the term Gypsy here because I don't know if they were Travellers, Roma, Romanichal, etc. I guess I could have asked, but that just seemed rude.

[geniebelle6901]

Miss is your typical prefix for a woman. Master on the other hand I have no idea.

[MaroonMandy]

Master is the equivalent for a man (Master Bates) but I was wondering why they chose to use it in the obit.

[Witsec7]

Master is the equivalent for a man (Master Bates) but I was wondering why they chose to use it in the obit.

It's a bit of an archaic word. When I was growing up young unmarried males prior to their teens would have mail addressed to them as Master Soandso. Or just as in this instance used to recognize young men in obits.

[geniebelle6901]

I was referring to where the clans were located. I didn't mean to imply everybody in those towns are gypsies or travellers. Anyway...they are well known for being scammers and con-artists (mainly driveway paving and roof repair) and preying on the elderly. Here's some links for you:

http://www.gainesville.com/article/2008 ... /810240876

http://archive.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=2083

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/10/19 ... llers.html

ETA last link

[JesusFightClub]

Experiencedd, I was intrigued that Gypsy was as bad as the N word to you. Here in Scotland we have large traveller communities and I have a comrade who works with them. She told me the right thing to say was "Gypsy Traveller". Perhaps a cultural difference?

I also did some stats work a while back and we identified this group as "Gypsy/Traveller" in our figures. I now feel a bit weird.

[geniebelle6901]

Icing on the cake: A large number of Gypsies and Travellers here in the U.S. are becoming fundamentalist:

http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Du-Ha ... icans.html

Today, around the world, Christian fundamentalist revival movements have been sweeping through Rom, Romnichal, and other groups of Gypsies. Since the mid-1980s, through Assemblies of God, various American groups have formed Gypsy churches. In Fort Worth, Texas, for example, a church integrates traditional Gypsy faith with Christian Pentecostal ritual.

http://voices.yahoo.com/a-brief-look-ro ... 12919.html

Increasingly, Roma in the United States are Protestant, some forming Fundamentalist or Pentecostal congregations

[Witsec7]

Experiencedd, I was intrigued that Gypsy was as bad as the N word to you. Here in Scotland we have large traveller communities and I have a comrade who works with them. She told me the right thing to say was "Gypsy Traveller". Perhaps a cultural difference?

I also did some stats work a while back and we identified this group as "Gypsy/Traveller" in our figures. I now feel a bit weird.

I've known some Rom over the years, and in those days gypsy was a slur akin to the N word. At that time the Rom never used that word to describe themselves. I think now a days some do. I've also had a lover for many years who is half Rom (Mothers side). So I've learned a bit about the people from him as well. Travellers here in the US are called Travelers although citizens will call them 'G'.

It's late but i'll share one of my Rom experiences. 1987 the girl is 2 and we take her to Disneyland for her first visit. We're hippies mind you, and perhaps look like Rom a bit :D It's the end of our day and we get on the river boat ride. Sit next to a couple dressed a lot like we were. We smile and nod, the kid is cute but tired, on the edge of what could be a meltdown. The woman and man say something to us in a language that I know is Rom. I explained that we're a different tribe, Hippies. They laugh like hell, and the child commences with her meltdown. I pull her on my lap to calm her and she becomes fascinated with the woman's earrings. The woman is loving this kid, the baby fusses a bit more and refocusses on the woman's earrings. The woman takes them off and hands them to me and says they are for the rikla (nonRom girl). I remove my daughters earrings and insert the ones the woman gave her and you would think I handed the lady a sack of hundred dollar bills. She was glowing. Then she said, 'from my tribe to yours'.

correction of Rom language

I've got more Rom stories, but we would need to sit down to a couple of pints in order for me to properly tell them.

[formergothardite]

You and your stories that show the good side of the Rom culture, experiencedd! Don't you know that they are all a bunch of scam artists and thiefs!

Genie's reaction reminds me of many of the racist(who claim they are not) in my area who say the exact same things about AA. They claim that they are nothing but thieves and the women don't do anything but have baby after baby and their children are all ignorant and they should just drop their culture and become more like the white people. What do you think Genie? Since there is so much bad in the AA culture, should it be destroyed and they be forced to assimilate? If not, what is the difference between them and the Roma?

And honestly, I don't see traveling around as a bad part of their culture.

[JesusFightClub]

Experiencedd, when I can physically speak, I'll tell my comrade your story! If that's OK with you. She will love to hear it.

She is not Roma/Traveller herself and initially was startled by the cultures. But she said to me she sees a lot of positive now. Some things confuse her, cursing is one. You will know what I mean, things and places can get a curse. One pitch, think is in Glasgow, can't be used because it has a curse on it. A fight happened and a man died, he dying put a curse on it (I am not sure if it was the fact of his death or if he said it.) The Travellers told my comrade the site gave them a lot of trouble since. Families were fighting, there was a lot of anger, aggression. They said "We can't use a cursed site." She is confused by this but recognises that is their belief.

[geniebelle6901]

I'll answer your question when you answer mine. Just in case you forgot what it was:

if I'm so wrong, please point out the so called "good" that I'm missing other than food or music and tell me how you would fix their problems?

Oh, and I want real proof not stories and links to gypsy/traveller websites. Nice try though trying to substitute once racial group with another.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'll answer your question when you answer mine. Just in case you forgot what it was:

Oh, and I want real proof not stories and links to gypsy/traveller websites. Nice try though trying to substitute once racial group with another.

You soon went back to being an aggravating little fuck, didn't you? :roll:

[formergothardite]

You soon went back to being an aggravating little fuck, didn't you? :roll:

It is because, as much as she claimed to want to be a better person, she only wanted to change her outward appearance, she was still the same bitch on the inside that she was before and you can't keep that sort of mean hidden too long.

I am not an expert on their culture, but there are people here who are, I'm sure. I will look for info for you, but their clothes, music, dance and traveling are all good parts of their culture. All things that you said were not worth preserving. I'm sure that there are more things that people here who know more about their culture can share.

Here is a website that talks more about the Rroma culture, which isn't always the same as Travelers. It even address some of the issues with them not educating their children but also discusses the discrimination they recieve that makes it harder for them to go to school, get jobs, and settle down if they want to.

http://www.rroma.org/question-and-answers.html

[geniebelle6901]

I said no pro gypsy or traveller links. I take it you have no suggestions as to how to fix their problems?

[dawbs]

I said no pro gypsy or traveller links. I take it you have no suggestions as to how to fix their problems?

"Tell me why they're wonderful and provide sources.

But anything that tells me why they are wonderful is 'pro-roma' and therefor biased so won't be a source'

:roll:

[donks]

It's a bit of an archaic word. When I was growing up young unmarried males prior to their teens would have mail addressed to them as Master Soandso. Or just as in this instance used to recognize young men in obits.

I've never seen it used. Most unusual.

[BlondeAgent007]

i have had a bad run in with gypsies, in WNY! They screwed over my place of business BIG TIME

in 2009/10 they scheduled a new years party at my place of employment. i was a banquet server. They originally asked for a party of 250 until 2 am.

What we were forced to deal with was a rowdy party of over 300. They charged each person $60 for the event, even though it was only 32.75 a person from our calculations including the full time band. Their party of 250 was a party of 335, which bc they didn't tell us an accurate head count didn't get enough food. it threw the kitchen into a tailspin.

also they only paid the bar to be open until 1 am. they let the bar close, and then went to their hotel rooms and brought out 5 30 packs of keystone and 5 bottles of liquor. we told them NO LIQUOR bought not by the hotel after hours, unless they are in their hotel rooms, then they can do what they please. they iqnored us. and i didn't get home until 5:15, when i was told i'd be done by 2. they barely tipped us btw.

shady--yes. personal experience--yes