My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding

[FireIsCatching89]

Try sidereel.com That's usually where I go for my TV time. Or you could try Hulu Plus. I don't know if they'd have it or not, but it's worth a look.

There used to be a lot more options out there, but what with SOPA . . . .

btw, +25 for your icon.

May the odds be ever in your favor.

I've checked, and so far, no dice. Maybe I'll just catch re-runs when I'm home for the summer, but goshdernit, I'm impatient.

And thank ya much for the icon nod. I was Katniss for Halloween, and saw the movie twice the week it came out. Saying I'm a big fan is an understatement! :lol:

[MrsKay]

I felt so bad for Shyanne, especially when she said something to the effect of "All your life you're told to stay away from boys, and then on the wedding night you're supposed to get in bed with a boy you barely know." That. and her mother's comments about her learning about sex the hard way, made me wonder how bad that poor girl's wedding night was.

[BlondeAgent007]

I've seen several documentaries on youtube about European travelers. Some paint them in a very positive light, and some are very critical. These people can afford to buy these extravagant dresses because they don't spend a lot for daily living. Their homes are tiny mobile homes, which without toilets, use less water and probably don't have tons of electronics. There isn't room for tons of things. With no permanent address or on the books employment, most travelers don't pay taxes. They tend to settle on land that they do not pay rent for, they stay until they are forced to move. Men and women are discouraged from a college education. Their children use schools and crowd school districts that don't have the funding for the extra children, since again, the travelers are not paying taxes.

Its hard to say how much money they make per household, because employment is scattered, gypsies avoid the topic of money often, and are secretive about how they acquire money.

[BlondeAgent007]

im sorry, I'm not implying this is all gypsies, this is a compilation I made using a variety of sources. Most of the information I found is negative because travelers tend not to talk about money at all, hence, they don't bother to defend themselves.

[HOTW]

It still airs (on PIX11 in the NYC area, at least)! It's so trashy now that I can't even watch it without feeling like I need to shower after, but I used to watch it all the time with my friends in college. :lol: I always wonder if the people on the show are just crazy, on drugs or both?

It isnt all true, we used to work with a model/actress who appeared on the show as a stripper and then again as someone else involved with baked beans(dont ask me it was just too wierd when she was telling us!). And that was proabbly about8-9 years ago

[debrand]

Anyway, criticising their fashion sense because it's 'trashy' seems incredibly classist to me - I don't see any real difference between a gypsy girl having a £25k wedding dress and a wealthy woman having a £25k designer handbag, but one is acceptable and one isn't. Yes, their culture has negative aspects but mainstream US and UK culture does too.

I'm probably not in a higher financial class then most of the Romani. LOL However, I will say it, those dresses were ugly. My opinion has nothing to do with the cost of the clothing. It is their money and they can spend it however, they want. I don't like to use the phrase trashy because human beings aren't trash.

I would be interesting to know how modern Romani girls' tastes evolved. Their ancestors probably didn't wear such unusual wedding gowns.

Some parts of the Romani culture, I think that I understand based on my own family's background. When people come from poor backgrounds and work hard to earn a comfortable or even wealthy living, they sometimes want to show off their wealthy. They aren't being snobby, but are proud of what they have accomplished. I wonder if the same thinking goes behind the money spent on Romani weddings?

I'm very confused when to use Roma and Romani. Is Romani a adjective? Also, the grandmother used the term, Romanchal?

How do you show sympathy for a minority culture and still criticise aspects of it that are very harmful? I understand that not all Roma keep their daughters sexually innocent until their wedding day or prevent them from getting an education or working. However, the portion that do should be called out in the same way that we do fundamentalists. Yet, I'd like to not be disrespectful of a culture that does suffer from prejudical attitudes.

[valsa]

How do you show sympathy for a minority culture and still criticise aspects of it that are very harmful? I understand that not all Roma keep their daughters sexually innocent until their wedding day or prevent them from getting an education or working. However, the portion that do should be called out in the same way that we do fundamentalists. Yet, I'd like to not be disrespectful of a culture that does suffer from prejudical attitudes.

I have the same problem with discussing Islam. Given the shit innocent Muslims in America have had to deal with for the past decade, I'm hesitant to criticize even the parts of their religion and culture that they share with the fundies we bitch about here. I don't want to appear to be in league with those bash any Muslim just for being Muslim, same as I don't want to be lumped in with anyone who bashed the Roma just for being Roma.

[geniebelle6901]

Well, geniebelle, read the fucking thread. If you were Roma/Gypsy/Traveller, I'm sure you would feel your culture was HUGELY respected and feel thoroughly ashamed for daring to question the vast majority non Traveller culture. *headdesk*

There are big problems with their culture. There are big problems with our culture. Difference is, gypsy/travellers face an immense amount of prejudice. We need to address that or we just make them entrench themselves. If you know everyone sees you as pikey scum, what's the point ever trying to change?

First of all, I don't think all gypsies are like the ones portrayed, and TLC is doing a lot of fact hiding. With that said, the prejudice that the featured gypsies/travellers face are mostly of their own doing. And, I think season 2 of the British version is highlighting that fact. Heck they are even admitting that 1 man was in prison and couldn't be there for his daughter's first communion, another for assault, and another facing jail time for receiving stolen property (not saying that guy was guilty since that wasn't stated on the show). They buy land for a trailer park, but continually violate the terms of the agreement. IF that is the reason they were evicted, then that's not discrimination...it's a breach of contract. I do feel somewhat sorry for them. But, from what I understand they had 2 years if not longer to either adhere to the terms of the contract of face eviction. There may have been other issues and even some discrimination. I'm only speaking to what I have seen and read.

They feel entitled to respect, but yet don't address the problems that exist in their culture: Lack of education grabbing, urinating and defecating outside, trashing reception venues, arranging fights (not the kind that result from a heated argument), violating contracts, squatting on land that doesn't belong to them, and the illegal activities they engage. Yes, some these things happen in all cultures, but that does not mean I have to respect them for acting the way they do. It has noting to do with race or ethnicity, but their behavior. I feel the exact same way towards people who act that way here in the U.S. All of these problems need to be addressed in every culture. But, that's just the problem, nobody wants to admit their culture or way of life has problems. As to how to fix that I don't know. A lot of of the time change has be forced. Which is a terrible to say, and not something believe in, but it looks like that's what's going to happen.

The point of trying to change is to make a better life for yourself and your family, and to prove to the public that you want to change/have changed, and and want to be a productive member of society. Of course you won't be able to change everybody's mind, but some is better than none. Overtime your children have a better chance of being seen as productive citizens.

ETA: I can't spell or use proper punctuation today!

[geniebelle6901]

That show angered me so much, especially at the Pastor/Reverend who married them. Who, in their right mind, marry a 17-year-old to a guy she met the month before? :x I know my friend got married that the screening was so tough that they got turned away at several churches before they found one that would marry them.

Did anyone notice how the fathers were basically missing throughout the episode? Sketchy indeed.

I agree about the preacher marrying them, but the same thing could be said of the priest in the British version. I agree about the missing fathers. I also noticed it in British version which also blurred out the faces of some of the grooms. The reason given for the grooms was because they thought coming out at travellers/gypsies could get them fired or hurt their chances of getting a job. While I can believe that, I also believe there's more to it than that.

[geniebelle6901]

I just re-watched last weeks British episode. They angry guy who only had limited visitation with his kids yelled at sister to come and clean his trailer. WTF? If I had a brother that yelled for me to clean his house, I wold tell him to clean it his own damned self! And he had the nerve to diss his ex in front of their kids! What a POS! Then Paddy bragged about how quiet his wife, Roxanne, is & said he wouldn't have married her if she wasn't. He's also a POS who thought he was a king!

[xDreamerx]

This has been said, but I was kind of shocked by the mother saying she wouldn't tell her daughter ANYTHING about sex. I know it's not only Gypsies who do this, but even Anna Duggar said her mother told her a few days before she married, what to expect from marriage or something like that so I assumed it was the talk. Even if you believe in virginity before marriage, shouldn't you tell her so she knows what to expect? And so that she knows how to physically take of herself? Just because a woman is married doesn't mean she can't contract an STD/STI, or have other sexual health issues.

I wondered, so the American Gypsies pull their children out of school as early and as often? I would assume it would be harder to do in the states but maybe not. Do they say the children are being "home schooled"?

In the British version, I think Josie married her first cousin. Isn't that illegal? In Canada, I believe you have to sign or check something indicating you're no closer than second cousin.

It was so sad/disturbing to see Shyanne marrying someone who sexually assaulted her. It was just so barbaric.

[donks]

They're gonna show the grabbing footage!!!

One of the girls just said her Daddy 'owns' her and gives her to her intended at the wedding, then HE owns her. So sick!

[donks]

Am I the only 1 watching this? Pretty Josie that married the Bohunk, Swanley is wearing an ankle bracelet-on trailer arrest for beating a girl up!

[Jesus Camp Counselor]

Yes, I'm watching it too. I was wondering if gluing jewels to the ankle bracelet would be tampering.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

They're gonna show the grabbing footage!!!

One of the girls just said her Daddy 'owns' her and gives her to her intended at the wedding, then HE owns her. So sick!

FWIW one of the Serven daughters expressed that exact sentiment just before her own wedding. She was looking forward to the "transfer of authority."

[debrand]

Am I the only 1 watching this? Pretty Josie that married the Bohunk, Swanley is wearing an ankle bracelet-on trailer arrest for beating a girl up!

I'm recording the episode for later. Darn you all. I didn't want to watch this show and now you've got me recording it. LOL

[donks]

*waves hands mystically* resistance is futile... You will watch every week!

[Eponine]

Did anyone notice how the fathers were basically missing throughout the episode? Sketchy indeed.

On the British version it's been mentioned several times that a lot of the men don't want to appear on the show for fear that they won't get jobs/will get fired if employers know they're Travelers/Roma. I don't know if that's always the case but it seems to happen a lot. Since women aren't generally employed I suppose it doesn't matter for them.

Thing is, I'm sure a lot of people do judge them on their...let's say... less than classy appearance, and I do find it really quite puzzling that they have adopted this style of dressing, yet retain a very rigid patriarchal society.

This is an interesting point. I've only watched the British version and this is what I can make out: the difference is simply that the standards of beauty are very different, also the ways of displaying wealth. It seems like making ostentatious displays of disposable money is the best thing in their culture, socially. If you can buy these outrageous dresses, constantly afford fake tanning, makeup, hair appointments, or whatever, it shows that you (the father, that is) are able to provide well for your family; it shows off their masculinity and their individual worth. The women dress in ways that most of us would consider super tacky for a similar reason, to "show off the goods" so to speak, but it definitely does not mean that they are sexually available. The idea seems to be to use appearances to maintain status in a tight-knit society and show that your family is a good one to marry into.

The women's appearance reflects on the man's role in the family, and because it's all meant to display his abilities and wealth it just solidifies his patriarchal position. Outward appearance does not show anything about women's role in the society.

One thing I find interesting about the show is that, even living in Europe and traveling around it for a while I don't think I've encountered any Roma or Travelers with this kind of lifestyle. Of course I might just not notice, I don't know. I see Roma every day here in France and they do definitely face discrimination - but since the women I see always wear long skirts and head coverings they're much easier to spot. I guess they're more classic Roma than the ones on these shows. Sometimes I see them just doing everyday things like riding the Metro, but most of the time I notice them begging outside churches or busking or something, and that kind of thing makes people think a lot less of them as a group. It's nearly always women and children I see; either the men blend in more or they just don't come out as often.

And of course there is the stereotype here that they are the most frequent pickpockets (especially the children) but I haven't experienced that in France. In Italy, perhaps. But they still face a huge amount of prejudice in Europe - Sarkozy even "repatriated" some to Romania in 2010! Many camps here had extremely poor conditions, and people are reluctant to help them. Many French people consider them not French even if they really are, and have been for generations - they're often still considered Romanian or some kind of "other."

I do wonder how these old-style Roma view the ones on TV.

[geniebelle6901]

Did I just hear that Cheyenne's new husband say he would have her trained or molded by the time she was 20? Seriously, WTFH! All of this sounds as bad if not worse than fundies but minus the frumpers.

[tropaka]

someone explain the use of "bohunk" here....usually it's a slur for eastern European men (my hubby who is ethnically Ukranian has mentioned it as a slur...

Just watched the episode where they pick up the father from jail with a limo...didn't watch all of it.

It does seem like TLC is seeking out the most extreme people. Earlier show this evening had an older woman talking about how inappropriate the girls' outfits are these days.

[DowagerDuchess]

It is an interesting culture to say the least. My father comes from a long history of Irish Travelers. He was the 2nd oldest of 15 children and left when he was 12 and moved in with his older sister, 14, who married and had also left. In all 4 of the 15 left the lifestyle and were more or less disowned at that point. For some perspective, my father was born in 1906, so this is all happening before WWII even.

My father was the most amazing man I have ever known.

[MrsKay]

Am I the only 1 watching this? Pretty Josie that married the Bohunk, Swanley is wearing an ankle bracelet-on trailer arrest for beating a girl up!

Which episode was this? I missed that part!!!

[donks]

If bohunk is a slur it's news to me! Around here it means a beefy, unintelligent man-not unlike Smuggar!

If it's truly a slur I apologize-i didn't know!

[donks]

Which episode was this? I missed that part!!!

She was on an episode last season I think. She beat up a girl that was in the same family as the dude her Dad was jailed for beating up!

[pixydust]

If bohunk is a slur it's news to me! Around here it means a beefy, unintelligent man-not unlike Smuggar!

If it's truly a slur I apologize-i didn't know!

That's how I had always heard it, too.

Josie never seemed like the type to beat someone up, I'm a little surprised. I don't have cable anymore.....is she dressing the baby up in sparkles and belly shirts?