My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding

[formergothardite]

Because change will require assimilation and giving up part of their culture even some of the good parts. I don't see change happening any other way, and when I mention anything about changing their culture, that's when I'm called offensive. To be honest, I would rather see people live than to continue becoming victims of their own culture, even if it means losing part are all of that culture.

This is exactly what the Christians did to the Native Americans. They only saw the bad parts of the culture and decided that they should be forced to assimilate, even if that meant losing the good parts of their culture. I guess you agree that they were correct? Of course, we see how well that went.

And plenty of people(myself included) brought up changing their culture, so no, that isn't offensive. Destroying and entire culture and forcing them to assimilate into the "approved culture." That is what is offensive. There aren't just two options, destroy the entire culture, wipe it off the face of the earth, so no parts of it exists anymore and let people abuse their kids and treat women like objects. There is keep the culture, but figure out a way to end the abuse. You seem to see everything in black and white.

[geniebelle6901]

I am not suggesting rounding them up and putting them in a reservation. There are a lot of gypsies and travellers that have moved into apartments and houses. Also, I never said assimilate into an “approve cultureâ€. There millions of people who live in the mainstream but still keep their cultural and ethnic identity. Anyway, I just don’t know what else to say since these groups get a free pass while fundies get snarked on for the same things (wifely submission, sexism, lack of education, only associating with like-minded people, etc.

[formergothardite]

Where are people giving them a free pass at? It has been said over and over and over that all those things mentioned need to be done away with. You didn't say anything about them getting to keep their cultural and ethnic identity until now, you said that nothing in their culture was worth preserving, which would mean that they shouldn't keep their cultural and ethnic identity. I don't see why they should have to move into apartments and houses. As long as they are educating their children while they travel, why should they be forced to stop?

And since you do want them to assimilate, there has to be an approved culture that you want them to assimilate into? What culture should they become like?

[geniebelle6901]

You're right. Let's just let them be.

[formergothardite]

Is that what I said? I have made it very clear that the harmful parts of their culture need to be changed. I just don't think their entire culture needs to be destroyed like you do.

And honestly, even when it comes to fundies, if they would educate their children, treat women equal to men and not have so many children that they can't care for them, I don't care if they drive 15 passenger vans, homeschool, live on farms, and wear frumpers.

[MarsGirl]

I just caught this show last night because it was on after Sister Wives. I was mildly amused... Felt bad for the 17 year old pregnant bride who said she had wanted to be an oncologist... but now she was happy to be a housewife?!?

[ElphabaGalinda]

I just caught this show last night because it was on after Sister Wives. I was mildly amused... Felt bad for the 17 year old pregnant bride who said she had wanted to be an oncologist... but now she was happy to be a housewife?!?

Saw that too...at least she wasn't raised to believe that was her only option. That's one of the things that bothers me about gypsy culture (as portrayed on the show) and really should be changed. Those girls should have choices about what to do with their life. I am pretty sure that girl was only getting married because she was pregnant. She didn't even seem to want that kind of dress (which didn't seem as terrible as usual). She's changing absolutely everything about what she wants for that boy and it's not a good sign. Did you see him saying what he decides is what they do and that's all their is to it? She's never going to get to settle down like she wanted.

[MarsGirl]

Saw that too...at least she wasn't raised to believe that was her only option. That's one of the things that bothers me about gypsy culture (as portrayed on the show) and really should be changed. Those girls should have choices about what to do with their life. I am pretty sure that girl was only getting married because she was pregnant. She didn't even seem to want that kind of dress (which didn't seem as terrible as usual). She's changing absolutely everything about what she wants for that boy and it's not a good sign. Did you see him saying what he decides is what they do and that's all their is to it? She's never going to get to settle down like she wanted.

I think that marriage is doomed. She had kind of a shocked face when discussions like that came up--the guy telling her that what they want to do is what they do, and how he said he could never work at a real job. I think she's still stuck in that fantasy land of a relationship (which everyone experiences in the beginning of a relationship) where you impose what you want on the person thinking that that is what he is... you know, all the hormones cloud your vision.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I think that marriage is doomed. She had kind of a shocked face when discussions like that came up--the guy telling her that what they want to do is what they do, and how he said he could never work at a real job. I think she's still stuck in that fantasy land of a relationship (which everyone experiences in the beginning of a relationship) where you impose what you want on the person thinking that that is what he is... you know, all the hormones cloud your vision.

I agree, I think she doesn't know what she's getting into. I worry that instead of realizing how doomed the marriage is she'll just do exactly what he says which would end up hurting themselves or their child. All marriages showcased on this show and the British version show only the worst aspects of this culture and although they don't seem like they can work, at least those gypsy girls know what they're getting into.

[MarsGirl]

I agree, I think she doesn't know what she's getting into. I worry that instead of realizing how doomed the marriage is she'll just do exactly what he says which would end up hurting themselves or their child. All marriages showcased on this show and the British version show only the worst aspects of this culture and although they don't seem like they can work, at least those gypsy girls know what they're getting into.

Right. The gypsy girls featured last night seemed the happiest. Looks like they can drink a lot, too. (The one chick--a relative, I didnt catch who she was but she was coaching the bride on being a goodhouse wife--seemed a bit drunk during the reception.)

[GeoBQn]

After all the talk in previous episodes about how Romanichial boys use non-Romani girls for "practice," I wondered if they ever even had a relationship. Maybe they had just been hooking up and the guy got caught in a lurch by getting his "practice" girl pregnant.

[MarsGirl]

Yeah, I was wondering that. The two stories featured on this episode involved a gypsy guy married (or getting married to) a non-gypsy girl. After they introed the show talking about how taboo that is... I was confused...

[geniebelle6901]

Is that what I said? I have made it very clear that the harmful parts of their culture need to be changed. I just don't think their entire culture needs to be destroyed like you do.

And honestly, even when it comes to fundies, if they would educate their children, treat women equal to men and not have so many children that they can't care for them, I don't care if they drive 15 passenger vans, homeschool, live on farms, and wear frumpers.

The first sentence was me agreeing with you. The last was my own thought. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[formergothardite]

The first sentence was me agreeing with you. The last was my own thought. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

So now you don't even think the bad parts of their culture shouldn't be changed? You aren't making any sense.

[geniebelle6901]

No, because the culture will die a natural death on it's own, so why bother doing anything at all.

[Didi]

I thought the dad with his 4 year old's carnival party was really sweet. I wanted to see more of them and less of the bleeped out 17 year old. ;-)

I didn't like this episode much...

[BlondeAgent007]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say that many of them do NOT educate their children. many of them are illiterate. hardly any of them finish high school, and those that do go to school don't get a full education from moving around and sticking them in various random schools that don't have corresponding curriculums

[geniebelle6901]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say that many of them do NOT educate their children. many of them are illiterate. hardly any of them finish high school, and those that do go to school don't get a full education from moving around and sticking them in various random schools that don't have corresponding curriculums

They don't. Or if they do they pull them out of school around 5th grade at the latest. It has been stated many times on the show.

[formergothardite]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say that many of them do NOT educate their children. many of them are illiterate. hardly any of them finish high school, and those that do go to school don't get a full education from moving around and sticking them in various random schools that don't have corresponding curriculums

I'm sure they don't and that needs to change. But that doesn't mean that their whole culture should be wiped off the earth and they be forced to assimilate into another society like Genie originally said. THAT was what I was speaking out against, not making them educate their children.

[BlondeAgent007]

Where are people giving them a free pass at? It has been said over and over and over that all those things mentioned need to be done away with. You didn't say anything about them getting to keep their cultural and ethnic identity until now, you said that nothing in their culture was worth preserving, which would mean that they shouldn't keep their cultural and ethnic identity. I don't see why they should have to move into apartments and houses. As long as they are educating their children while they travel, why should they be forced to stop?

And since you do want them to assimilate, there has to be an approved culture that you want them to assimilate into? What culture should they become like?

They should at least consider settling somewhere for this reason alone, which is why I made the comment. Not only that, but they don't pay any taxes yet use the things the taxes provide. If they WERE educating their children, and had some way to be accountable for the taxes non-mobile people do, I'd give them more of a pass. They drain school systems by using them and not paying into them, which worsens the educations of the children of people who do pay their taxes. The things they do don't just hurt people in their culture... it hurts the people around them, which makes it not okay to keep doing what they are doing. They also sit illegally on land and from what I have seen, tend to destroy the property they inhabit. This seems to be destructive to the insiders and the outsiders, and personally, I think a reason they should have to stop. The few honest people out there who may actually pay rent or find a way to force themselves to pay some kind of taxes surely do not outweigh the people who do not. If this was the norm, I'm sure they would face less discrimination. We live in 2012, and you can't just destroy other people's things and then move on undetected anymore, even if you don't have a mailing address.

[longskirtlotsakids]

I am staying out of the controversy, I am just here to tell those of you who want an unbiased glimpse into traveller life (and have access to netflix) to watch the movie Knuckle.

[Tanaqui]

I am staying out of the controversy, I am just here to tell those of you who want an unbiased glimpse into traveller life (and have access to netflix) to watch the movie Knuckle.

The summary sounds a bit like Gypsy Boy Mikey Walsh's family.

[geniebelle6901]

Thank you Lindsay! People just don't get the fact that gypsies and travellers aren't misunderstood and discriminated against because of the actions of a select few groups. There's a heck of a lot more going on, but nobody wants to hear it. Plus, the bad stuff makes up a very huge chunk of their culture. If you get rid of that, you pretty much do destroy their culture.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thank you Lindsay! People just don't get the fact that gypsies and travellers aren't misunderstood and discriminated against because of the actions of a select few groups. There's a heck of a lot more going on, but nobody wants to hear it. Plus, the bad stuff makes up a very huge chunk of their culture. If you get rid of that, you pretty much do destroy their culture.

Go fuck yourself you ignorant cow.

EVERYONE has acknowledged that there are problems. Not one person has posted that everything they do is okay. What thread are you reading?

[formergothardite]

Go fuck yourself you ignorant cow.

EVERYONE has acknowledged that there are problems. Not one person has posted that everything they do is okay. What thread are you reading?

That is what I keep thinking. How many times has it been said that there are problems in the culture that need to be changed?