Jill, Derick and Israel- Part 19

[season of life]

There is an Instagram pic of Izzy in his new clothes. He is looking pretty cute. I feel dumb for thinking Jill or Derick want to wait a few weeks/months before going for a second Dillard. No signs of a new baby yet, but having more kids within a relatively short time IS the Duggar way.

[Georgiana]

13 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

It wasn't the birthing plan gone wrong with that delivery.  It was a sick baby and Venessa thinking she knew more than established medicine on what a GBS newborn needed.  She almost killed the kid out of arrogance or ignorance.

Didn't she also fail to administer/respond to the very basic and (I believe) required test for GBS that would have prevented the whole situation to begin with?  

[Mercer]

48 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

These parents make out a birth plan and in it is often included, "Even if I beg, no epidural/trip to hospital." It might have been in the birth plan for the woman that said she begged Jill to call an ambulance.

Regardless of the birth plan, the mother shouldn't be denied medical care. Births don't always go perfectly according to plan, and the birth attendants should be responding to the dynamic situation, not treating the plan like it was set in stone. The midwife may remind the mother of her earlier requests ("You seemed pretty certain you didn't want [x medical intervention]. Are you sure this is what you want?") but it's not the midwife's job to police whether the mother ultimately decides to follow her plan. It would be pretty outrageous for the midwife to overrule the mother about the birth based on the mother choosing to deviate from the birth plan.

[Coconut Flan]

IIRC Venessa refused to call an ambulance for an obviously ill newborn and also forbid her trainees/assistants from calling.  All of that after not administering antibiotics when they knew the mom was GBS positive.  She supposedly told the mom that herbal/natural remedies worked just as well and were better for mom and baby despite state guidelines requiring antibiotics.

[Lurky]

I have never had a child, and I never will - but I don't understand this idea that what's in the birthing plan is more important than a mother and child's health?  I mean, for sure, people can have an ideal around, I dunno, water pool, aromatherapy oils and such, but giving birth isn't something you can plan for like a wedding can be planned.  And surely anyone who calls themself a midwife  has to prioritise the health of the mother and child? 

I can't buy into the idea that it's the mother's fault her child didn't receive proper medical care - and if a mother was on the "no medical intervention at all" path, the midwife has done a negligent, terrible job of managing her expectations, and informing her of the realities of childbirth.

[foreign fundie]

Non of my births have gone even remotely the way I planned. Not that I even had a plan after the first two. 

Now if I could plan birth it would be like this. I would start having some mild contractions late afternoon. Somebody would come pick up the kids, and my husband would gently massage my back and bring me steak while I sit in a hot bath with lavender oil. After dinner I'd call my midwife friend who would tell me I am already at 10cm. I would do one great big push and my healthy, pink baby would be placed on my belly. Half an hour later I have showered and am tucked in a clean bed, ready for a refreshing night of sleep. Once or twice my cute little baby would wake up to nurse in the moonlight.  The next morning after toast and coffee, my parents would come with cake, flowers and my other kids and everybody would feel fantastic. Most of all, I wouldn't find a bloody night gown weeks later in the trunk of the car.

[Iamtheway]

2 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

Non of my births have gone even remotely the way I planned. Not that I even had a plan after the first two. 

Now if I could plan birth it would be like this. I would start having some mild contractions late afternoon. Somebody would come pick up the kids, and my husband would gently massage my back and bring me steak while I sit in a hot bath with lavender oil. After dinner I'd call my midwife friend who would tell me I am already at 10cm. I would do one great big push and my healthy, pink baby would be placed on my belly. Half an hour later I have showered and am tucked in a clean bed, ready for a refreshing night of sleep. Once or twice my cute little baby would wake up to nurse in the moonlight.  The next morning after toast and coffee, my parents would come with cake, flowers and my other kids and everybody would feel fantastic. Most of all, I wouldn't find a bloody night gown weeks later in the trunk of the car.

Except for my husband bringing me ice cram instead of steak that sounds pretty much like my birth plan! Sadly Miniway had very different plans ...

[MargaretElliott]

I was reading an article a while back about birth plans. This woman was in a birthing class where you planned everything out and learned what to do and such. The midwife had each of the women write down what the worst thing that could happen was. Many of the women put down "I get an epidural," or "I have to go to the hospital." Only one wrote down "Both me and my baby die." Everyone was apparently horrified, like "How could you consider your baby dying?!" But people forget how dangerous birth really is. It was consistently in the top 5 killers for women throughout history. Now, when someone dies in childbirth or loses a child, it's a horrible tragedy. Back before modern medicine, it was a sad, but expected part of life that either you would lose a child or that you could die in childbirth. Birth is scary. Midwives like Venessa approach birth with all the confidence and comfort of modern medicine, yet their actual practices are little safer than the historical ones. Now, I think that modern midwives and home births can be very safe and (in some cases) better for a particular family, but only if they're safe and educated.

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

Non of my births have gone even remotely the way I planned. Not that I even had a plan after the first two. 

Now if I could plan birth it would be like this. I would start having some mild contractions late afternoon. Somebody would come pick up the kids, and my husband would gently massage my back and bring me steak while I sit in a hot bath with lavender oil. After dinner I'd call my midwife friend who would tell me I am already at 10cm. I would do one great big push and my healthy, pink baby would be placed on my belly. Half an hour later I have showered and am tucked in a clean bed, ready for a refreshing night of sleep. Once or twice my cute little baby would wake up to nurse in the moonlight.  The next morning after toast and coffee, my parents would come with cake, flowers and my other kids and everybody would feel fantastic. Most of all, I wouldn't find a bloody night gown weeks later in the trunk of the car.

Hold on... You mean that isn't what I have to look forward to in January?! Well... Fuck! 

 

5 minutes ago, MargaretElliott said:

I was reading an article a while back about birth plans. This woman was in a birthing class where you planned everything out and learned what to do and such. The midwife had each of the women write down what the worst thing that could happen was. Many of the women put down "I get an epidural," or "I have to go to the hospital." Only one wrote down "Both me and my baby die." Everyone was apparently horrified, like "How could you consider your baby dying?!" But people forget how dangerous birth really is. It was consistently in the top 5 killers for women throughout history. Now, when someone dies in childbirth or loses a child, it's a horrible tragedy. Back before modern medicine, it was a sad, but expected part of life that either you would lose a child or that you could die in childbirth. Birth is scary. Midwives like Venessa approach birth with all the confidence and comfort of modern medicine, yet their actual practices are little safer than the historical ones. Now, I think that modern midwives and home births can be very safe and (in some cases) better for a particular family, but only if they're safe and educated.

Exactly. I find it really puzzling that there are still people who don't realize the full risks that can occur during pregnancy and childbirth. Yes, modern medicine and techniques have done a phenomenal job at making it much safer - but there are never any guarantees that something ain't go wrong.

I'm planning a Hospital birth because I'm not willing to take the risk of something going wrong and not having help immediately available. My plan pretty much consists of one page saying, "Get her out safely." 

I do have some preferences. For instance, I'd love to hold her as soon as possible after the birth. Or my husband being the only person in the Delivery Room with me other than the medical professionals. But if things go bad for some reason I want the Doctors and Nurses to focus completely on keeping her healthy and safe. My own wants aren't as important as her wellbeing.

Other women feel far more comfortable being home or at a birthing center - to those who choose that, I just really suggest doing a lot of research and working with someone who is extremely qualified to attend at that type of birth. And to remember to be flexible because it may not go exactly as you hope.

[VixenToast]

I understand the whole hullabaloo about birth plans. I'm glad I didn't make any except to actually birth. All I wanted was vaginal (and only because recovery lol, nothing Godly or heroic about it.)

It was my first (and for the immediate and undecided future, only) so the OB went to another hospital first because he thoug the woman with four kids would go first. Nope. Not with these magical birthing hips of mine.  I had my son in the Univerity Med Hospital and when they asked if students could come and learn I said, "BRING EM ALL IN AND LETTEM WATCH! Aaaaaaaaghhhhhhh!"

 

the he only hiccup in the whole thing was when the epidural wore off. When I realized I would feel it all I started sobbing until I bucked up and held my moms hand. She had me without and epidural. I feel amazed at myself to this day. IMO, THAT is Gods hand in affairs. I had said throughout the pregnancy I wanted no pain meds lol.... Thanks God! . 

[twinmama]

On 9/29/2016 at 4:07 PM, Malizabeth said:

I, along with a pp, hated being awoken by strangers all night in a stinky, cold hospital, the food sucked, the bed is uncomfortable, and frankly giving birth is a personal experience.

I had no choice but a hospital birth, but I loved the hospital beds!!! I slept so much better in the hospital bed that I could sit halfway up, etc, than I did at home. Of course, this was mainly while pregnant and on bedrest, not after they were born.

[metheglyn]

On a non-baby related note, has anyone else seen Derick's post about substitute teaching at Springdale High School? I have to wonder, is he the only current member of the extended Duggar clan who would even be *qualified* to teach anything other than homeschool?  

 

[Percy]

Good on him for earning some money.

[season of life]

Substitute teaching is an actual job. Derick should consider doing that or putting his accounting degree to use. Something tells me subbing isn't a permanent thing for him, but hopefully Derick will stick to a legit gig.

[Bad Wolf]

And you can't bring any crazy fundie religion into the classroom. 

[VixenToast]

6 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

And you can't bring any crazy fundie religion into the classroom. 

Depends. What is SHS? I can only thing of Springdale HS. If so, then it's public. However, ya never know it could be Jesus School. Lol.

[feministxtian]

Since he already has an undergrad degree, he could easily pick up the Master's in education. Many school systems have something called "transition to teaching" where if you have an undergrad degree, you take classes either nights or weekends to get the master's and teach at the same time. In some school systems, long term subs have to have some sort of degree. 

But yeah, Jesus isn't allowed in the classroom....

Looks like they do participate in the non-traditional path to teaching

http://www.arkansased.gov/divisions/human-resources-educator-effectiveness-and-licensure/office-of-educator-effectiveness/recruitment-and-retention/non-traditional-routes-to-licensure

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

Okay, I know the Duggar husbands aren't the best, but Derick is still my favorite out of the Josh-Derick-Ben-Jeremy foursome. The first two seem to lack work ethic that fundie men pride themselves on.  I wouldn't be surprised if one of Jeremy's intentions in courting a Duggar was to expand his preaching into a bigger congregation. At least Derick is willingly to earn some income without the help of his father in-law. He seems very supportive of Jill and her hobbies and her sort of career as an unqualified "midwife assistant". I can see Derick homeschooling Izzy with real educational material, not the College minus BS. I can't say this for Ben.....it's the Duggar way or the highway. Jill and Derick seem to just naturally click also. I can see them meeting, befriending, then dating if they lived in a no courting, secular parallel universe. Josh/Anna and Jessa/Ben on the other hand......not so much. 

 

[season of life]

While I would love the idea of Derick giving Izzy a serious homeschool education, I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. Just my honest opinion, but I don't think Derick is better than Ben (both men are obviously better than Josh, but anyone can accomplish that feat). Derick, as evidenced by Instagram and blog posts, has swallowed the Kool-Aid and thinks everything depends on Jesus. He readily accepted TLC money and lived off the donations of generous fans, all while jet setting to and from Arkansas. He preached about good values while he did nothing but attempt to convert people who were already Christians. Israel probably will not receive opportunities Derick had. I'm sure Derick loves Jill and Izzy, but he is still as hypocritical as they come.

[Gobsmacked]

At least Derick isn't going to be a Boobiness slave. He has a lot more autonomy by working.

Wonder if this means that they are not going to return to CA any time in the near future? 

[seraaa]

Quote

 

Hang on a minute - you mean it's possible to be a supply teacher in Arkansas without a teaching qualification?

[withaj]

8 hours ago, metheglyn said:

On a non-baby related note, has anyone else seen Derick's post about substitute teaching at Springdale High School? I have to wonder, is he the only current member of the extended Duggar clan who would even be *qualified* to teach anything other than homeschool? 

In my district, you can get in the substitute teacher rota with only a high school diploma or GED. I had a coworker at a coffee shop when I was still in high school who used to sub occasionally at my school. So, technically, any of the Duggars who got their GED could potentially sub. That doesn't mean they would, hotbed of sin that public schools are 

5 hours ago, season of life said:

While I would love the idea of Derick giving Izzy a serious homeschool education, I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. Just my honest opinion, but I don't think Derick is better than Ben (both men are obviously better than Josh, but anyone can accomplish that feat). Derick, as evidenced by Instagram and blog posts, has swallowed the Kool-Aid and thinks everything depends on Jesus. He readily accepted TLC money and lived off the donations of generous fans, all while jet setting to and from Arkansas. He preached about good values while he did nothing but attempt to convert people who were already Christians. Israel probably will not receive opportunities Derick had. I'm sure Derick loves Jill and Izzy, but he is still as hypocritical as they come.

Sorry, but I think objectively, it's clear Derick is preferable to Ben. He's better educated, has real marketable skills, has held a real job. Now, are his choices any better? Not really. But, unlike Ben, he has had at least one foot solidly in the real world. I'm willing to give him the credit for that. I'm pleasantly surprised to see him subbing.

If he's still willing to set foot in a public school despite his association with the Duggars, I do think it's reasonable to assume that some form of public education will be on the table for Izzy, whether or not Derick and Jill end up taking that route. I'm not all sunshine and optimism about them, but I won't dismiss the potential for positive growth until I feel it's 100% squashed.

[frugalitymom]

In Arkansas most schools who hire subs for their list of who to call require at least so many credit hours of coursework which equals an associate degree.

[Bad Wolf]

My state requires a BA to sub, but it can be in anything.

[MayMay1123]

9 hours ago, VixenToast said:

Depends. What is SHS? I can only thing of Springdale HS. If so, then it's public. However, ya never know it could be Jesus School. Lol.

i went to the website, it is Springdale high school