Nathan 3: "She loves me, she loves me not, she loves . . . "

[HereticHick]

I wonder if Nathan ever misses his former boo, Ashley?

 

[ophelia]

She looks so normal and quite hipsterish. She really dodged a bullet. Instead of posing in pants with nicely chopped short hair, she could be barefoot and pregnant in the mountains of Tennessee with a toddler, a newborn and possibly pregnant again.

[QuiverDance]

Short hair!  That is ungodly!  

All joking aside, I am so glad Ashley escaped the Bates family.

[Seculardaisy]

Ashley looks great. That third pose is so serious that I did chuckle a bit.

I'm fully jealous that she had so many selfies that she posted multiple at once. Meanwhile I'm so non-photogenic I only post maybe two selfies a year in a good year.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Seculardaisy

[melon]

I hate having my picture taken.I also feel unphotogenic.If I don't smile,I look like I'm sad or ready to cry.If I smile,I think I look like I am three sheets in the wind...lol.Plus,I have resting bitch face.I can't win...lol.

But I am seriously jealous of these people who take such great pictures/selfies.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

This drives me insane, it's DEVACURL not Divacurl. She paid at minimum like $60 for that haircut. Get the name right.  

Edited March 23, 2018 by HarleyQuinn

[TatiFish9]

I am mad it took me so long to come into this thread. Good talk on Nathan! He is one of my favorites. I do believe he and Ashley were deeply in love. However, I suspect there was more to the story besides "city girl falls in love with country boy". Dont get me wrong. I do believe coming from different regions can be detrimental to a relationship's survival.

However, I always suspected Ashley's race was an uncomfortable issue within this family. Ashley's mother is a -black- Latina. And while I don't think the family would have stopped the marriage had the two agreed to stay together, I do think there would have been some challenges for Ashley and her family had she wed and moved down to the Bates family. Also, there was pressure for probably from both families. When Nathan announced his decision to court Ashley the tension was so apparently high someone could slice through it.

Now, lol, with that out of the way I want to say their post relationship status has been interesting from the very beginning. Recently, Ashley posted that she was with Lawson. I thought that was interesting. In the same story we see that she and her sisters are receiving a personal flight to Big Sandy. Does Lawson fly? Is that Nate flying them? If so, why isn't he in the pics. Glad these families have remained close despite break up. Cool.

Star crossed loving can be painful as hell. However, if the two could be friends afterwards, that shows their love was deeper than an agenda to get married.

[mollysmom]

TatiFish9! I just saw those pictures of Ashley & finally put 2 and 2 together that she is your avatar!!! I always wondered who that was in your picture and now I know!! 

Edited May 4, 2018 by mollysmom

[TatiFish9]

@mollysmom

lol! Yes! I was going to choose one of Jinger's unknown bridesmaids but I chose Ashley instead.

I was so glad @HereticHick posted about her here, because it seems like there were some unanswered questions about she and Nathan.

Btw, Ashley recently confirmed that she and Nathan are never ever eveeeer getting back together! They're just friends as it has been assumed they're actively hanging out again. That is awesome they can resume friendship after a public break up.

 

[mollysmom]

That's good to hear!! And, now I have that Taylor Swift song in my head......we are never ever ever getting back together!!!! 

[llucie]

I mean, they never kissed or anything, im sure its easier to get back to being just friends in that situation than in a normal relationship.

[TatiFish9]

Sometimes the relationships where you eliminate the sex etc. helps you to get closer quicker. Nathan was crying over this one. And...they were pretty affectionate in other ways. Bates are usually more physical as a rule. Intimate touch can move the soul. 

[HarleyQuinn]

I think Ashley is getting into pet fundy territory for me. I love how she just unapologetically loves New York City over moving to the country and becoming someone's wife. 

I mean her beliefs still suck and everything but on the superficial side, you go girl. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m sure it was uncomfortable at first. But as they see one another more and more as friends and time passes, it probably gets a little less awkward. But I guarantee at first it was really bad.

[JillyO]

I'm friends with several people I've kissed before, but I would find it very hard to remain friends with someone I was pretty sure I was going to marry (remember she thought he was going to propose [marriage] during that ridiculous courtship proposal production in Central Park?).

Good for Nathan and Ashley for making it work, but I truly fail to see how their ridiculous courtship (or dating-with-a-purpose) model protects anyone's heart.

[mstee]

I feel like their courtship model makes heartbreak even worse. Sure you have the lack of the physical side, but all the pressure of courting leading to marriage must be really intense. Since they don’t believe in dating without a “purpose”, I’m sure there is the question of “is this the person god wants me to marry?” starting very early in the relationship. Talk about stress. As a worldly heathen, I like that I’ve been able to date without pressure. Also, it’s nice to know if there is chemistry when you kiss (or go further than that) before you walk down the isle. I remember thinking I really liked this guy- went on a couple of dates, kissed him, and there was just nothing there at all. I was glad I found out early. I know the Bates think dating = sleeping around with anyone but I know I’ve only seriously dated a few guys and the same applies for most of my friends. They’ve made it out to be such a negative that they are setting up their kids for heartbreak if the courtship doesn’t work out by being so rigid. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by mstee

[mollysmom]

39 minutes ago, mstee said:

I feel like their courtship model makes heartbreak even worse. Sure you have the lack of the physical side, but all the pressure of courting leading to marriage must be really intense. Since they don’t believe in dating without a “purpose”, I’m sure there is the question of “is this the person god wants me to marry?” starting very early in the relationship. Talk about stress. As a worldly heathen, I like that I’ve been able to date without pressure. Also, it’s nice to know if there is chemistry when you kiss (or go further than that) before you walk down the isle. I remember thinking I really liked this guy- went on a couple of dates, kissed him, and there was just nothing there at all. I was glad I found out early. I know the Bates think dating = sleeping around with anyone but I know I’ve only seriously dated a few guys and the same applies for most of my friends. They’ve made it out to be such a negative that they are setting up their kids for heartbreak if the courtship doesn’t work out by being so rigid. 

I agree a million times with this!! As I've mentioned a gazilllion times on here....I was raised by ultra fundie parents (girls don't wear pants, we didn't own a television set, no alcohol, no touching of the opposite gender until you are married, etc) and so naturally I had to "court" and I married the first guy I courted and had suspicions very early into the marriage (maybe a month) that he was gay. He didn't admit it until 15 years later (which makes me sad for me and for him....I can't imagine having to keep that in all those years) but all that to say, they are NOT doing these kids any favors by this whole courtship crap. I feel like I wasted 15 years of my life in a marriage where we were basically just roommates. I loved him and still love him (we've remained good friends even though we are divorced) but because we were never allowed to have a conversation alone until we were married and obviously didn't even touch until we were married, we were never allowed to REALLY get to know one another until it was "too late" (I hate to put it like that but I think you all know what I mean) 

[JordynDarby5]

I agree. I really think the courtship model all but makes sure their be hurt worse then if they dated like normal. How can they not be when their drilled into their heads that the person sent to them is who God chose for them? How is that not pressure? They are told their hearts are being protected. They let their sons or daughters spend so much time together. Their allowed to call each other boyfriend and girlfriend but nope. Their hearts are still protected.  Right sure.  Zach and Nathan were devastated when their 1st courtships ended. There's no way Michael wouldn't have been hurt if Brandon changed his mind. Or Tori if Bobby changed his mind. Or Carlin if Evan changes his mind. 

[ColeJo]

I think Christians overspiritualize dating. It has likely become an idol itself. I'm guilty of having that "special list" of who I want the "one" to be. When expectations are so high, one small disappointment is a big deal for that person. Is it possible that the boys have expectations that are incredibly high?

If someone told you "We are meant to be together because God told me so," how would you feel? Would you be deviating from God's will for your life?

I feel when people say this, they are manipulating the situation to be in their favor.

[victoriasponge]

I don’t get why they think dating means you cannot be seriously considering marriage. I’m 21, I had my first kiss at 17, so relatively late. We broke up 6 months later having done nothing more than kiss. I lost my virginity at 19 and am still with that guy. I wouldn’t still be with him 2 and a half years in if I didn’t think it was serious and worth it. That we weren’t married within a year didn’t change that? Those are the only two guys I’ve been with in any capacity. I’m still friends with the first one. 

They misrepresent the outside world as this terrible place of tragedy and sin, and for some people it can be, but it’s possible to pursue their model for relationships (not that it’s everyone’s ideal, some people want to casually date or have casual sex) within the secular environment. It’s just another way to control their kids. It’s really sad and doesn’t save them any emotional devestation if stuff goes wrong. If a ‘normal’ relationship ends that’s sad but if theirs ends, that’s plans and sacrifices and Godly ideals down the drain. 

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

The thing the Bates courtship model fails to take into account is that loss is going to cause heartbreak, no matter what they decide to name their process. I don’t think that two people deciding they aren’t right for each other to be wrong either, at this age you’re still developing into your own person and you might not mesh well with the other person. 

[TatiFish9]

Call me cynical, but I think the courtship model is set up solely to ensure these men get their virgins, ripe, ready and with minimum damage. I can't see any legitimate reason otherwise to marry them off so young, unskilled and ready to serve. Generalizing. 

[Daisy0322]

On 5/7/2018 at 10:35 PM, TatiFish9 said:

Call me cynical, but I think the courtship model is set up solely to ensure these men get their virgins, ripe, ready and with minimum damage. I can't see any legitimate reason otherwise to marry them off so young, unskilled and ready to serve. Generalizing. 

I absolutely agree with this. I think the whole not giving away pieces of your heart BS and being under the umbrella of protection shit is just to make sure that even if a courtship gets called off the girl is still "pure". I mean Jeremy and derek both went to college do they expect us to believe they didn't so much as kids a girl? Whereas look at the daughter in laws. For sure a double standard.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Ashley is going to start online classes (I believe liberty is fundie approved). It just makes me glad she never married Nathan. If she did, she would be stuck in a farm, pregnant with her second, with Nathan approved long hair, and no chance of even doing fundie approved online classes. 

[just_ordinary]

I wonder if the shock about the failed courtship/heartbreak made him swallowing the kool-aid big time. He didn’t seem to be such an ass before and I see no reason why UP should have changed the editing of his parts. Especially as they do a very good job to make them look so normal and sweet.

My guess is that he wasn’t as fierce on all that stuff before and the fact the he fell for a young woman who is Fundie but much more worldly proofes that to me. It didn’t work out and I can see why he might feel like it was a „punishment“ because he wasn’t really into the Gothardite ways. And now he is overcompensating.