The war on Christmas

[snarkbillie]

I don't disbelieve you about Saturnalia, I just think that saying that the traditions of an ancient Roman festival led directly to the start of the Christmas tree custom (which occurred over a millennium later) is a bit of a stretch. I would be interested to read the source about Saturnalia though - it's a fascinating subject, regardless of whether or not any of its traditions truly were precursors of Christmas customs.

I'm not sure where I stand with Jung, but I agree that as evergreens are among the few plants that keep their leaves throughout winter many people in different cultures and at different periods in history are inevitably going to see significance in them. Use of evergreens by people in one place and at one period of history isn't necessarily derivative of the same use of greenery by people in a previous era. Also, what else could medieval/early modern people have used to decorate their houses/churches in at Christmas? Paper and parchment were expensive and difficult to get hold of for most, and bare branches wouldn't have looked very decorative.

Don't read this unless you have a very strong stomach.

I read a book once about the aftermath of Gettysburg and how all the bodies were lying around rotting (sorry to be so graphic) and they were using evergreen boughs to keep the smell away so as to avoid scavengers like mice and maggots to take over the town while they were trying to get all the corpses buried. So, every Christmas is ruined for me because every time I see an evergreen bough over someone's entry or a wreath on their door I can only assume that their house is filled with rotting corpses..which totally grosses me out and puts me off my cocoa.

[meow139]

Don't read this unless you have a very strong stomach.

I read a book once about the aftermath of Gettysburg and how all the bodies were lying around rotting (sorry to be so graphic) and they were using evergreen boughs to keep the smell away so as to avoid scavengers like mice and maggots to take over the town while they were trying to get all the corpses buried. So, every Christmas is ruined for me because every time I see an evergreen bough over someone's entry or a wreath on their door I can only assume that their house is filled with rotting corpses..which totally grosses me out and puts me off my cocoa.

Aah! Did you really have to post that and inspire me to Google it?! Ohh, I won't be sleeping tonight.

[snarkbillie]

Aah! Did you really have to post that and inspire me to Google it?! Ohh, I won't be sleeping tonight.

I spoiler-ed it! Also, that's a really good book if you can figure out which one it is. I can't remember the title or author, but the book was really unsettling in a good way. Lots of people never really think about the aftermath of war in such practical terms.

[Nothing2CHere]

Actually, Easter has nothing to do with East. It is named after a Pagan goddess, Eostre. This is why some fundies have started calling it "Resurrection Day".

Actually, I did not know the etymology of the English word "Easter" (although I did doubt it had anything to do with the East). I wonder how my uncle would react if I pointed it out to him!

Technically, in my church (Byzantine Catholic) Easter is referred to as "Pascha," but I think it's mainly only the priest and our liturgical publications that use that term regularly.

[julie paradox]

In French it's "paques" with one of those little hat-things (circumflex?) over the a that often happens where we would have an s instead. And of course there's the adjective "paschal" (thou our paschal lamb indeed) - not to be confused with pascal's wager! I've always assumed that it's derived from pesach in some way.

Anna Matrix is one of those convinced that Easter comes from Ishtar. Mainly, I suspect, because the Old Testament has a lot to say about the wickedness and idolatry of people like the Babylonians and the Sumerians but very little to say about the Germanic tribes. Funny that. And also because she is quite amazingly ignorant on the topic for someone who claims to be a voracious student of it.

Also, she linked "the Christian tradition of ham at Easter" to Ishtar and Nimrod. Can't remember how, but my point is that I had never heard of this tradition. In my family we always ate lamb, because of Christ being the sacrifical / passover lamb. Is it solely an American thing, or did it come from other (ie non-UK) parts of Europe? Can't help thinking that it was deliberately chosen to offend the Jews (sigh. Sometimes I hate learning history).

(edited to add question mark)

[emmiedahl]

A lot of Americans eat ham at Easter and/or Christmas.

[bananacat]

Actually, I did not know the etymology of the English word "Easter" (although I did doubt it had anything to do with the East). I wonder how my uncle would react if I pointed it out to him!

Technically, in my church (Byzantine Catholic) Easter is referred to as "Pascha," but I think it's mainly only the priest and our liturgical publications that use that term regularly.

I'm sort of a linguistics buff so etymologies fascinate me. There's a wealth of information on wiktionary.com, and apparently Pascha just means "Passover".

[ChickeyMonkey]

I didn't know Nimrod was an actual person. I just know it as a name to call someone stupid. Is there a reason behind this? Was Nimrod an idiot?

[Rosa]

No, he was just a foreign (Assyrian?) soldier & hunter.

But his name sounds really funny. Bill Watterson used it as an insult in Calvin & Hobbes but I don't know if he started it or just used it.

[Happy_Anabaptist]

I posted a quote on Facebook yesterday that has apparently brought me into the ranks of the Christmas-haters. :roll:

"However, the majority [of Christians] have by this time convinced themselves in their minds that it is pardonable when they do what the pagan does at anytime, for fear that [otherwise] "the Name might be blasphemed" ... The Saturnalia, New Year, Midwinter festivals, and Matronalia are frequented by us! Presents come and go! There are New Year's gifts! Games join their noise! Banquets join their din! The pagans are more faithful to their own sect, ... for, even if they had known them, they would not have shared the Lord's Day or Pentecost with us. For they would fear lest they would appear to be Christians. Yet, we are not apprehensive that we might appear to be pagans!" - Tertullian, c. 200 (Bercot)

[PennySycamore]

No, he was just a foreign (Assyrian?) soldier & hunter.

But his name sounds really funny. Bill Watterson used it as an insult in Calvin & Hobbes but I don't know if he started it or just used it.

According to Dictionary.com (as cited on Urband Dictionary), using Nimrod to mean a slow-witted person comes from good ol" Bugs Bunny calling Elmer Fudd "a poor little Nimrod" in one of the cartoons. I think Nimrod just sounds funny, too.

[Triplet3]

The only way I knew of Nimrod was from the 9th variation in Elgar's Enigma Variations, "Nimrod". Until now, I didn't know that the name is used as an insult in the US.

[contrary]

funny this was bumped up today. HIS DAUGHTER takes on "happy holidays" vs. "JESUS" this morning.

SNOOOOZE. These ever-so-young new wives act like this controversy has just dawned for the first time ever, and they are just taking on the world!

eta link: fromthelittlewhitehouse.blogspot.com/2011/11/what-really-is-reason-for-season.html

[dawbs]

According to Dictionary.com (as cited on Urband Dictionary), using Nimrod to mean a slow-witted person comes from good ol" Bugs Bunny calling Elmer Fudd "a poor little Nimrod" in one of the cartoons. I think Nimrod just sounds funny, too.

This is what I learned.

Biblically, he was a mighty hunter--so calling someone 'Nimrod' was rather like saying 'Hawkeye'; it was a common nickname for a hunter.

Then Bugs Bunny used it on Elmer Fudd, mocking his hunting and a generation of kids saw Nimrod = Elmer Fudd = mockery.

[clarinetpower]

Sprocket, your cousin is awesome. :)

[Sprocket]

Sprocket, your cousin is awesome. :)

Yeah, she's a good egg :)

[dawbs]

This summed it up for me today :lol:

source: http://www.radiofreebabylon.com/Comics/ ... hJesus.php

[thoughtful]

Dawbs, that's great!

[FakePigtails]

I'm kind of split on this. On one hand, I can't stand when people act like they'll be shot for saying Merry Christmas and pretend to be persecuted. It's ridiculous and they need to get over their non-fight with the world. I really can't say overstate how obnoxious I find it every year.

On the other hand, I get when people use slogans like "Jesus is the reason for the season" in the sense of Christians needing to focus more on the religious meaning of the holiday than the commercialism (as opposed to Keep Christ in Christmas which seems more in-your-face at least to me and with that I tend to assume the "persecution" mentality). Like what Advent Conspiracy promotes, that kind of thing.

[ChickeyMonkey]

What really bothers me is the "He is risen!" I don't like it grammatically, no matter how much you want to argue the reason why "is" should be used. It makes the OCD in me scream out for correct grammar.

[CrommulentSockPuppet]

I work in a drugstore and everything we have this time of year has Santa on it and Christmas trees and stuff. We DID finally get a roll of Hanukkah paper, but that's all. I realize that our area doesn't have many Jewish families, but this in-your-face attitude is obnoxious to people like me who DO celebrate Christmas, but who dont necesarily want to look at santa and reindeer from halloween til december 25th. Celebrate the holidays, but for God's sake, get a damn time-frame and stick to it.

[Nothing2CHere]

Despite my uncle, I do have some really cool Facebook friends. One of them posted this link today, which I thought might also resonate with some of the FreeJingerites:

jennifermcgrail.com/2011/11/happy-holidays-and-other-four-letter-words

[Conuly]

What really bothers me is the "He is risen!" I don't like it grammatically, no matter how much you want to argue the reason why "is" should be used. It makes the OCD in me scream out for correct grammar.

It's not incorrect, it's just old-fashioned. "Is" is the older way of forming the past participle. "Has" is the innovation.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=399

This isn't even an issue of dialectical variation, as the older form is well-established.

[GeoBQn]

My friend posted a link to this. A blogger called Fat Pastor suggests that instead of screeching at people to "Keep the Christ in Christmas," people should try to "BE the Christ in Christmas."

fatpastor.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/keep-christ-in-christmas-2/

[O Latin]

This summed it up for me today :lol:

source: http://www.radiofreebabylon.com/Comics/ ... hJesus.php

I can't find the rolling on the floor laughing smiley, so you get a dancing banana instead. :banana-dance: