The war on Christmas

[Samantha]

On the vein of confusing de-friending, I had someone de-friend me because I stated my religious beliefs as agnostic. I fretted for a while, then realized she wasn't the kind of friend I wanted anyway.

Yeah, I was initially upset about losing this friend, but then I realized that she was the one doing the wrong and that I didn't need people like her in my life. She was a nutter though, she insisted that "evil-lution", as she called it, was planted by Satan to confuse the people of the world and turn them from God. .

[Nothing2CHere]

I got my first "War on Christmas" style Facebook newsfeed post today!!! :dance: My uncle, who was raised Catholic (like, he was head altar boy who always got to carry the cross during mass - but this may have been because he was also the biggest altar boy) and is now a Baptist posted one of those "I'm Keeping CHRIST in CHRISTmas, who's with me?" graphics. Being a smart-ass, I commented, "But did you keep the THANKS in THANKSgiving?" And I've got a good one to come back with if he replies to me - "Well, you better make sure you also keep the EAST in EASTer!" Which I can say I do, because I'm an Eastern (Byzantine) Catholic :lol:

Oooh, real time update! He just replied, "Yes, I spent it with you." So I left the East in Easter comment.

In other Holiday Inclusiveness news, does anyone else remember the 1970's-era Sesame Street Christmas Special? My husband had it on VHS, and last year around this time we watched it. At the end I just turned to him in awe and said, "I think that was the most inclusive holiday special I've ever watched!" And it was from the 70's. Of course there was a lot of talk about Christmas, but they also have a nice little scene where someone gives Mr. Hooper a gift and says, "Happy Hanukkah," to him, because that's right, he was Jewish. And the kids sing a song using sign language, and I don't remember much else right now, but to me, it was really well done without all that trying so hard to be inclusive-ness that I feel nowadays.

Oooh, Uncle just replied back to me on FB: Actually Christ is in Easter also smartass. He totally missed my point.

[Constance Vigilance]

Oooh, Uncle just replied back to me on FB: Actually Christ is in Easter also smartass. He totally missed my point.

But how can CHRIST be in Easter if it isn't called CHRISTer??????!!!??!?!?! :confusion-scratchheadyellow:

[brashchick]

What is up with the de-friending stuff ? If someone posts something that aggravates me I just hide it from my news feed. If they really aggravate me, I might hide all their posts until I start to wonder "how is so and so doing? " and then I need to remember how to un- hide them.

The only person I have ever de-friended was a formerly good friend who had been in lesbian relationships for years, then started dating guys (Cool with me, let's get together and have dinner) and decided to drop all her lesbian friends (deciededly NOT cool with me). Basically she decided to de-dyke her life and I decided to de-bitch mine.

[thoughtful]

The whole victim / persecution mentality is seriously annoying.

I live in one of the most far left areas in the U.S., and people still say "Merry Christmas" as often as they say "Happy Holiday's".. so I just don't understand where this far right belief that there is a "war" on Christmas is coming from ?

I look at it similarly to the argument regarding same sex marriage being a threat to heterosexual marriages.

I'm a straight woman, I love my Husband. If he were gone I would still be attracted to Men. Every other couple in my neighborhood /town/ state could be engaged in a same sex marriage --- but I would still want to be married to a man, my husband would still want to be a marriage. It wouldn't change my preference just because someone else makes a different choice -- it isn't a threat to my marriage or to my identity.

It's the same with the "Merry Christmas"/ "Happy Holidays" .. I know that I'm celebrating Christmas, I know that in addition to the Christmas Trees and Santa Claus and gifts - I'm also celebrating the birth of Christ because I'm Christian. Why would it threaten me somehow if everyone around me is celebrating a different holiday ? Or just enjoying the lights, or the good deals on toys or having their kids get stuff from Santa ( or ignoring the whole thing ) ?? My beliefs won't change if someone says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

It seems , to me, that the people who get the most up-in-arms about all these perceived threats to their beliefs must have pretty flimsy beliefs.

Well, you're a logical, secure person busy living your own life, enjoying it, and keeping your nose out of other people's business.

It sounds like you don't believe in the world is a zero-sum place, where someone else needs to lose for you to feel like you've won. It also sounds like the idea of being in the minority in some way doesn't bother you at all.

They're on a whole other wavelength.

[thoughtful]

When I was a young 'un, it was understood that the Holidays began on or the day after Thanksgiving and ended on either New Year's Eve or New Year's Day. Shopping, parties, seasonal music, gifts, red and green decorations with a sprinkling of blue and white, traditional symbols (snowflakes, bells, snowmen), twinkle lights everywhere, evergreens ditto, etc.

That sounds like we're right back to the general idea of calling this time of year "the holiday season."

The reference I was answering (was it yours? Sorry, I've forgotten) was to the idea of time off of work being referred to as holidays.

Sorry if my throwing the idea of travel in there muddled my answer.

I don't hear Americans refer to time off of work and school as "holidays." In other words, if they have a week's vacation in March, or when school is out in July and August, nobody calls it a holiday.

[jenny_islander]

We always understood that Christmas ended on the Epiphany, the day that is celebrated as the arrival of the wise men. We put our tree up on Xmas eve, down on Epiphany. It's the 12th day of Christmas.

Yes, of course--religious Christmas is 12 days long. But the secular Holidays ran from Turkey Day to the ball drop.

[O Latin]

That sounds like we're right back to the general idea of calling this time of year "the holiday season."

The reference I was answering (was it yours? Sorry, I've forgotten) was to the idea of time off of work being referred to as holidays.

Sorry if my throwing the idea of travel in there muddled my answer.

I don't hear Americans refer to time off of work and school as "holidays." In other words, if they have a week's vacation in March, or when school is out in July and August, nobody calls it a holiday.

I have heard a few people refer to "the spring break holiday" or something like that, but in general you're right. In my experience, a week off (or more) is a "break" or a "vacation" while one day off is a "holiday." But I do think you're right that calling this time of year "the holidays" refers to Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's all occurring so close together, not necessarily because people have time off.

[MrsYoungie]

I must be really lucky. I don't get any friends posting right-wing or religious rants on their statuses (stati?). The closest I get is the occasional Angels on my shoulder - prayer - hearts & flowers type thing from people who are acquaintances at best. Most of my friends are non-religious and slightly left of centre politically.

I just posted the sarcastic copy & post status. We'll see what, if anything, results.

[2xx1xy1JD]

How about this for a status update:

"Copy and paste and forward to everyone you know" should be read as "delete immediately to avoid passing on ignorance since nobody actually thinks about the contents or bothers to verify the information first".

[slickcat79]

One of the odd things about people protesting "Happy Holidays" is that I can remember seeing and hearing it when I was a child, and I'm in my late 50s.

I always assumed it meant Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's Eve/Day, and was more about encouraging people to party hearty, have company over, and buy what was being sold, especially food and drink.

Yeah, that.

I worked in retail for several years. I was actually a lot more likely to say "have a nice day/night/weekend" if it was applicable than say anything about the season. I also wished people a happy holiday if it came up, or said "you too" if they wished me a merry christmas or whatever. I never experienced any personal drama in relation to that.

Those who feel inclined to "War on Christmas" drama should really leave the retail employees alone. Well, in general they should probably just STFU about the whole thing, but when you work in retail there is only one holiday. Depending on where you work, you may have been putting christmas stuff out since before halloween, and that stupid soundtrack will have at least a couple of holiday tunes on it even in november. Just let those folks "celebrate" the retail holiday of HalloThanksMas and try not to make their lives even more miserable. Trust me, it's bad enough already.

[PBrooke]

The song "Happy Holiday" came out in 1942. Eisenhower used the phrase "With best wishes for a happy holiday season" on his 1956 Christmas cards.

[Constance Vigilance]

The song "Happy Holiday" came out in 1942. Eisenhower used the phrase "With best wishes for a happy holiday season" on his 1956 Christmas cards.

No no not facts! What good are facts?!?!?

Edited because I should stop being a dick long enough to say that was very interesting and I didn't know it before. :)

[Nothing2CHere]

But how can CHRIST be in Easter if it isn't called CHRISTer??????!!!??!?!?! :confusion-scratchheadyellow:

Exactly! This is what I wrote to him: But it's not Christ-er, it's East-er. So if you want me to keep Christ in Christmas because the phrase "Christ" happens to be in the word Christmas, following that logic you want me to keep the East in Easter.

Now, I'm a Catholic, and my uncle isn't one of these "you're all going to hell because you're all still Catholics!" types of Baptists, but he tends to post stuff like "Keep Christ in Christmas!" or "I'm a proud American! Repost if you are too!" dribble on his page all the time without really THINKING about what he's posting. It's my job as his niece to make him think. Or aggravate him, either works for me :lol:

[bananacat]

Actually, Easter has nothing to do with East. It is named after a Pagan goddess, Eostre. This is why some fundies have started calling it "Resurrection Day".

[Constance Vigilance]

Actually, Easter has nothing to do with East. It is named after a Pagan goddess, Eostre. This is why some fundies have started calling it "Resurrection Day".

I think Nothing2CHere knows that and is just messing with her relative :)

[Rosa]

Nah, if you were trying to aggravate, you'd slice him with something like "But are you keeping the MASS in CHRIST MASS?"

Seems like you're still making him think.

[Linnea]

I don't know what the ultimate source of this is - I got it from the comments on Pharyngula, from someone who saw it on Reddit:

A friend on Facebook just reminded me that we should be keeping CHRIST in CHRISTmas!

I completely agree! It drives me crazy when people forget to honor their god on the occasion named for him. I mean, look at the word! His name’s right there at the beginning!

So this year, I’m very serious about keeping Christmas for Christ!

But I don’t want to forget about all of those other gods!

I’m also keeping January for Janus, the Roman god of doors and gates.

And February for Februus, the Roman god of purification.

And March for Mars, the Roman god of war.

And April for Aphrodite, the Greek god of love and beauty.

And May for Maia, the Italic goddess of spring and flowers.

And June for Juno, Roman goddess of marriage, and protector of the state.

And July for Julius Caesar, believed to be the descendant of a goddess.

And August for Augustus Caesar, upon his death was officially declared a god by the senate, to be worshiped by all Romans.

I’m keeping Sunday for the sun, worshiped as a god throughout history.

And Monday for the moon, also worshiped for thousands of years.

And Tuesday for Tiu, the Germanic god of war.

And Wednesday for Woden, chief of the Angelo-Saxon gods.

And Thursday for Thor, the Norse god of Thunder.

And Friday for Freya, the Norse goddess, leader of the Valkyrie.

And Saturday for Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture.

And while we’re talking about holidays, let’s make sure we keep Ēostre, the Germanic goddess of fertility, in Easter! After all, she’s the reason we have eggs, bunnies, and chocolate!

So let’s all make sure to remember Christ this Christmas, just like we remember all of those other gods on the occasions named for them! After all, Jesus is every bit as relevant as the rest of them!

[Constance Vigilance]

Amaaaaazzzing.

[Aeryn406]

I am so stealing that, Linnea! So awesome!

[thoughtful]

Linnea, I love it!

[Triplet3]

Actually, there is extensive historical record that these customs survived in Iceland, which was the last stronghold of Germanic tribal belief. I will have to pull out some books tomorrow, but I know that these specific customs are mentioned in the Icelandic sagas.

I'm sure that's the case, but Iceland is a long way from Northern Germany, Estonia and Latvia, which is where the Christmas tree custom began. The fact that the pagan custom survived in Iceland isn't proof that the custom led directly to Christmas trees. There could well have been hundreds of years between the end of the pagan custom in Germany etc. and the beginning of the Christmas tree.

[Sprocket]

This is why I love my cousin! From her fb:

...when people get angry when someone says 'Happy Holidays,' I get angry that they are angry. If you want to keep Christ in Christmas, worry about things more important than the signs and decorations at JC Penney. You think Christmas should be about Christ? Then take up your cross and follow Jesus – not into department stores, but into the prisons, the hospit...als, among the poor and the outcast. You get angry when someone doesn’t say 'Christmas?' Try getting angry over Christ’s children dying of malnutrition or AIDS. Try getting angry over the fact that the Christmas chocolate you love so much was kept cheap on the back of the working poor. Try getting angry over the fact that Christians are keeping people out of churches with their closed minds and closed doors."

[Triplet3]

Well, I have read about the evergreen boughs being brought inside and decorated, and also of outside trees being decorated with suns for Saturnalia. I'll have to get back to you on a source.

Have you considered that perhaps evergreen trees are merely a Jungian symbol of life in the long winter, and that many people see the same significance in them? That is what I tend to be believe, considering that many traditions are present throughout the world in some form without really being derivative of each other.

I don't disbelieve you about Saturnalia, I just think that saying that the traditions of an ancient Roman festival led directly to the start of the Christmas tree custom (which occurred over a millennium later) is a bit of a stretch. I would be interested to read the source about Saturnalia though - it's a fascinating subject, regardless of whether or not any of its traditions truly were precursors of Christmas customs.

I'm not sure where I stand with Jung, but I agree that as evergreens are among the few plants that keep their leaves throughout winter many people in different cultures and at different periods in history are inevitably going to see significance in them. Use of evergreens by people in one place and at one period of history isn't necessarily derivative of the same use of greenery by people in a previous era. Also, what else could medieval/early modern people have used to decorate their houses/churches in at Christmas? Paper and parchment were expensive and difficult to get hold of for most, and bare branches wouldn't have looked very decorative.

[Triplet3]

We always understood that Christmas ended on the Epiphany, the day that is celebrated as the arrival of the wise men. We put our tree up on Xmas eve, down on Epiphany. It's the 12th day of Christmas.

Rather interestingly, in earlier times Twelfth Night was thought to be 5th January, the eve of Twelfth Day (Epiphany). Today most people think of it as 6th January though. In my family we put up the Christmas decorations mid-December and take them down at Epiphany.