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The war on Christmas


booksnbeats

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I'm so sick of the Facebook posts. A friend just posted:

"WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT..... We can't say Merry Christmas now we have to say Happy Holidays. We can't call it a Christmas tree, it's now called a Holiday tree? Because it might offend someone. If you don't like our "Customs" and it offends you so much then LEAVE, I will help you pack. They are called customs and we have our traditions..Just the same as any other religion!! If you agree with this please post this as your status!! I AM A PROUD CANADIAN... MERRY CHRISTMAS! Do you have what it takes to re-post this"

I replied with

"The first Canadians didn't celebrate Christmas. They were heathen Natives. Love, your part-Native Pagan friend :)"

Lame, but if someone comes up with a better retort, I'd love to read it!

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Replace Canadian with American and I just saw that post on my wall too, from a distant relative. It's all I can do to not post, "You think Jewish people should have to leave the country?"

One of my FB friends posted in reply to this meme: "I like saying Happy Holidays! I celebrate Christmas but not everyone does. Whether you celebrate Hannukah, Eid, Diwali, Kwanzaa, Winter Solstice or anything else, you are just as American as I am. America is a nation of diverse traditions and beliefs. If you don't like it, I'll help you pack your bags! If you feel like reposting this, please do! If not, you're still just as American as I am!" I think I might steal it.

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Oh good grief. From Teri Maxwell's Mom's Corner that someone posted:

I've heard the Maxwells sing. Does anyone else think that poor man was raising his hand in a desperate effort to get them to STOP?

Oh, no question!

Too bad he didn't have the strength to curl down all of the fingers except the middle one. They might have gotten the point then.

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Replace Canadian with American and I just saw that post on my wall too, from a distant relative. It's all I can do to not post, "You think Jewish people should have to leave the country?"

I know, and what's so funny is the early English immigrants here did not celebrate Christmas. My paternal grandfather's family were members of Rev. Thomas Hooker's congregation in England. When Hooker went to Holland the Olmsteads came here in 1632. They did not celebrate Christmas as it was against their religion. It's really my grandmothers' Irish and German immigrants who brought the holiday practices here. Those awful Catholics in other words.

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Hyvää joulua ja onnellista uutta vuotta! ...Is all the Finnish I know. One of my good friends is from a Finnish part of Michigan. :mrgreen:

Ya got me beat - I only know 'perkele'.

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I'm so sick of the Facebook posts. A friend just posted:

"WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT..... We can't say Merry Christmas now we have to say Happy Holidays. We can't call it a Christmas tree, it's now called a Holiday tree? Because it might offend someone. If you don't like our "Customs" and it offends you so much then LEAVE, I will help you pack. They are called customs and we have our traditions..Just the same as any other religion!! If you agree with this please post this as your status!! I AM A PROUD CANADIAN... MERRY CHRISTMAS! Do you have what it takes to re-post this"

I replied with

"The first Canadians didn't celebrate Christmas. They were heathen Natives. Love, your part-Native Pagan friend :)"

Lame, but if someone comes up with a better retort, I'd love to read it!

How is it possible that in my 25 years of Canadian existence, it just slipped my notice that this nationality = a religion?

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How is it possible that in my 25 years of Canadian existence, it just slipped my notice that this nationality = a religion?

Yeah, funny, I didn't notice either. :?

This guy is not a proud Canadian, he is a bigoted Canadian. I think he should leave.

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Once, I wrote "Happy Eid to all my observing friends!" on my FB page, and my great aunt proceeded to kick off a conversation about how my Muslim friends were going to break down my front door and kill me in my bed with a machete. Yeah. That was fun.
:lol: Ah, Eid. The machete festival.

I'm sorry to say that this had never actually occurred to me:

We want our children to learn the importance of giving to those who have need. We participate in the Samaritan's Purse Christmas shoebox outreach. On an evening in November, we will take the children to Wal-Mart where they all excitedly give suggestions on what to purchase for the boxes. On another night the children open the items that are to go in the boxes and fill each box up.
I've only ever done Christmas boxes through school or with friends, not with family, so it had never occurred to me that people would do it as a family tradition. It sounds wonderful, and I know we would have loved it as kids (I don't like shopping but even I like imagining what I'd get for X), though perhaps Mary's example wouldn't play out every single year :lol: I do have a distinct memory of holding up a present we'd just bought for a friend's birthday party and saying, "But if she doesn't like it, I can have it, right?"

Anyway, back on topic:

"Happy holidays!"

"That greeting wasn't explicitly about me! *sob sob sob*" :roll:

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I thought Kwanzaa isn't a religious celebration but a celebration of African-American and African culture and heritage. That's the gist I get from the Wiki article, anyway. Saying "happy holidays" wouldn't really apply, then, to Kwanzaa, would it? I'm not one of the soldiers in the war on Christmas, I'm just curious, since "holiday" = "holy day" right?

On the Playdom site where I play Gardens of Time, some women got all pearl-clutchy about how Christmas has lost its true spirit, how it's all about consumerism, etc. I used the dreaded "xmas" and one of the women said how she doesn't like when people take the Christ out of Christmas and write it with an x. I almost told her that she can write it any way she wants, just as I can, but I didn't feel like starting anything. The chat feed has been so drama-filled about the stupidest things, lately. It's a fucking game, people!

I think it's funny that store clerks have to say "Happy Holidays!" yet xmas music is blaring from the speakers even before Thanksgiving has shown its turkey-stuffed face. Would that be a case of irony?

Honestly, the thing I hate most is the stupid xmas songs. Maybe if there were more than the classics that played, it wouldn't be so irritating. I like Mariah Carey's "All I Want for Christmas is You," "O Holy Night," & George Michael's "Last Christmas I gave you my heart." I'm over Bing Crosby and his white christmas, rocking around the xmas tree, and all the others. I will "ding the bells" or however it goes, though.

Does anyone else think of those FB messages "repost this if you believe..." are the new version of hte chain letter? Because I do and I hate them. Even the ones about breast cancer and the other causes.

Can someone who knows about Jewish holidays tell me which holiday it is that Jewish people make it a habit to eat fried food? I once worked with an Israeli Jew (who kept kosher at home and celebrated the Jewish holidays, but didn't wear a yarmulke) who said that one specific holiday his wife didn't make a big deal about eating fried food since it was part of celebrating the holiday. Not that he was unhealthy to begin with, I think his wife was just health conscious in general. I don't know why I had to give all that info on him. I guess to give background about the question? He even spoke Hebrew (I think), which I thought was kinda cool, but I'm weird like that when it comes to languages.

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I thought Kwanzaa isn't a religious celebration but a celebration of African-American and African culture and heritage. That's the gist I get from the Wiki article, anyway. Saying "happy holidays" wouldn't really apply, then, to Kwanzaa, would it? I'm not one of the soldiers in the war on Christmas, I'm just curious, since "holiday" = "holy day" right?

That's an overly strict interpretation of the word holiday. Labor Day, Memorial Day, Veterans Day, MLK Day, Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, and New Years Day are all secular holidays. Kwanzaa is one too.

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"I DO NOT CARE IF THIS DOES OFFEND SOMEONE…THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE…I AM SICK AND TIRED OF EVERY YEAR WHEN CHRISTMAS COMES AROUND; THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE CHRIST OUT OF CHRISTMAS BECAUSE IT MIGHT OFFEND SOMEONE…WELL, HOW ABOUT ALL OF THE CHRISTIANS?...WHAT ABOUT OFFENDING US BECAUSE YOU ARE TAKING OUR CHRIST OUT OF CHRISTMAS? ...CHRIST IS CHRISTMAS!...IF YOU AREN'T CELEBRATING CHRIST THEN WHY ARE YOU CELEBRATING?...CHRISTMAS IS ABOUT THE BIRTH OF OUR SAVIOR!...CHRISTMAS IS ONE OF A FEW HOLIDAYS LEFT THAT CELEBRATE "MY" CHRIST!...LEAVE "MY" CHRISTMAS ALONE!...AND TELL EVERYONE "MERRY CHRISTMAS", NOT HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!...RE-POST IF YOU’RE NOT ashamed!!"

I just got this on my page. As embarrassed as I am to admit it, it made me furious.

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When working retail a fre years ago, I so wanted to say "piss off and DIE!" To those who got all twisted over whatever greeting I gave. Really, someone is WISHING YOU WELL. Take it in the spirit it is intended. I wish I had such few problems in life that someone not using the exact *right* phrase in wishing me well was something to get twisty about.

Same here!!

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I thought Kwanzaa isn't a religious celebration but a celebration of African-American and African culture and heritage. That's the gist I get from the Wiki article, anyway. Saying "happy holidays" wouldn't really apply, then, to Kwanzaa, would it? I'm not one of the soldiers in the war on Christmas, I'm just curious, since "holiday" = "holy day" right?

The way I was raised, it doesn't apply to Hannukah, either.

The Jewish tradition in which I was raised made some distinction between what was called (in English, anyway) a holiday or a festival.

Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Pesach, Shabbat and some others are holidays -- Holy Days. Observance involves more pulling away from the world. Those days generally involve not working, prayer and contemplation -- some are solemn, some joyous.

Hannukah, Purim, Tu B'shvat and some others are festivals -- lesser in observance, and importance, for want of a better way to put it. In general, they tend to be festive (hey, that makes sense! :D ). People go to work and school, and some of my family and members of the synagogue didn't observe them at all.

I know that YMMV applies, and this may not be the experience of other Jews. And I know that is a quickie-description that ignores a lot of details.

My point is that this was the cycle of the year that I lived with from birth, for decades. Every Saturday felt set apart, holy, family-centered, and restful.

More to the point of this discussion, the times of feeling "there's a major event happening" were fall and spring.

December? Eh. There is no holiday (Holy Day) in December.

I think Hannukah got blown out of proportion in the US due to its falling near Christmas in the calendar.

That it is one of the reasons that I would prefer that cashiers, etc., would just continue to say whatever they always say, and that schools wouldn't use the whine of "but we covered your stuff" as an excuse to still go Christmas-crazy.

I do appreciate the desire to be inclusive, and it sure beats the ranting over "you'd better say 'Merry Christmas,' or we'll scream at you on Facebook and in Best Buy."

But having the only time of year that people acknowledge the existence of non-Christians is for a minor festival, just because it falls near a major Christian one, can grate on the nerves. It makes the fact that Christianity has dominated the American calendar glaringly obvious.

The quickest way for me to describe the emotional effect is to ask Christians (including Protestants) to imagine that the only time most people acknowledged Christianity was to wish all Christians a Happy St. Patricks Day (or Happy Holidays), starting at the beginning of February, because the dominant culture happened to have a major holiday near that time of year.

Or having someone randomly wish everyone a Happy Birthday, because it's their birthday! :lol:

At this point, I don't observe Jewish traditions -- once I stopped believing in anything supernatural, it seemed disrespectful to believers to still want to be in for "the fun stuff." So, now, being wished Happy Holidays or Happy Hannukah is even more off-the-mark for me.

It has sensitized me to the idea that there are people around me all the time for whom the year may have completely different holy, contemplative or exciting -- a whole other rhythm.

If I know someone, of course I honor their observances. And I love having the "oh, for us, the big holiday is . . ." discussions, and learning about other cultures.

But, with total strangers, I prefer to just say what I would say at any time, and not assume they are celebrating anything, just because I am, or the dominant culture is.

I don't make a fuss about this in everyday life. I just answer all pleasantries with a pleasantry, and am grateful that people are kind.

But I feel free to discuss it in situations like this -- when the subject comes up, and among people who might take the time to think about it.

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When working retail a fre years ago, I so wanted to say "piss off and DIE!" To those who got all twisted over whatever greeting I gave. Really, someone is WISHING YOU WELL. Take it in the spirit it is intended. I wish I had such few problems in life that someone not using the exact *right* phrase in wishing me well was something to get twisty about.

THIS. I don't care what phrase you use (Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Happy Yule). I usually just say "Thanks, same to you," regardless of faith or lack of faith. It doesn't offend me in the least.

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Can someone who knows about Jewish holidays tell me which holiday it is that Jewish people make it a habit to eat fried food? I once worked with an Israeli Jew (who kept kosher at home and celebrated the Jewish holidays, but didn't wear a yarmulke) who said that one specific holiday his wife didn't make a big deal about eating fried food since it was part of celebrating the holiday. Not that he was unhealthy to begin with, I think his wife was just health conscious in general. I don't know why I had to give all that info on him. I guess to give background about the question? He even spoke Hebrew (I think), which I thought was kinda cool, but I'm weird like that when it comes to languages.

That would be Hannukah.

The story behind the festival :D involves a lamp that had oil enough to burn for a day, but burned for eight days.

Hence, oil is a featured item in celebrating.

BTW, another little twist that added to my concern about non-Jews thinking that Hannukah represented us, when I was younger, was that, on the surface level at which teachers covered it when trying to be inclusive, they'd focus on latkes and the dreidel, and maybe the story of the Macabees.

And, although the aforementioned miracle is part of the story, it is a festival that doesn't have the high focus on one's relationship with God and morality that some other Jewish events do.

Teaching Christians that Judaism is all about fried fatty foods, a gambling game that can be played for money, defeating the non-Jews around them in battle, and being casual believers -- no possibility for creating more anti-Semitism there! :roll:

I used to tell myself, "coulda been worse -- coulda been Purim!" :lol:

My previous post had gotten so long, I didn't want to go into so much detail.

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I thought Kwanzaa isn't a religious celebration but a celebration of African-American and African culture and heritage. That's the gist I get from the Wiki article, anyway. Saying "happy holidays" wouldn't really apply, then, to Kwanzaa, would it? I'm not one of the soldiers in the war on Christmas, I'm just curious, since "holiday" = "holy day" right?

I don't think that works. We celebrate a whole host of non religious days as holidays- the federal government of the US recognizes like 9 or 12 of them or something? Under your proposed definition, Memorial and Labor Day wouldn't be holidays. Oh, or MLK day, which definitely celebrates a cultural movement and history. Is Kwanzaa a religious holiday? I don't know for sure, individuals who practice Kwanzaa are probably better equipped to answer that, and I imagine it varies from person to person. So it might not be a religious holiday, but it definitely is a holiday- a day that is special to those who practice it.

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Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Pesach, Shabbat and some others are holidays -- Holy Days. Observance involves more pulling away from the world. Those days generally involve not working, prayer and contemplation -- some are solemn, some joyous.

Are those referred to as the High Holidays? I've heard the term many times, but don't know which Jewish holidays they referred to.

That's an overly strict interpretation of the word holiday. Labor Day, Memorial Day, Veterans Day, MLK Day, Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, and New Years Day are all secular holidays. Kwanzaa is one too.

I agree with you on the overly strict interpretation of the word holiday. I guess Kwanzaa just feel like trying too hard to have a celebration that's just for a certain group. I understand wanting to take back and discover your heritage, but if you don't know which part of Africa your ancestors are from, I guess taking a bit from everywhere covers it, or tries to, anyway. I probably don't explain myself very well.

Does anyone know someone who celebrates Kwanzaa? I'm curious to see how many people celebrate it.

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The High Holy Days are Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. These are basically the biggest of all holidays. People who never ever go to synagogue normally will go on those two days. The other examples are just days that are generally a big deal in that you don't go to work, and slightly more observant people will go to synagogue then too. Hannukah is really really minor. It's fun at all...but in terms of religion it isn't a major holiday. It does bug me a bit that it recieves so much attention merely because it's close to Christmas. So Happy Holidays is awesome, but Hannukah is really minor, and i think was hyped up a little to compete with Christmas. Are big holidays (The High Holy Days) are in September/October. So i'm not really sure how i feel about it...saying Happy Holidays kinda still preferences Christians, because people only say it because of their major holiday. But I prefer it to Merry Christmas. Happy Holidays is considerate to other people, and it still includes Christmas, does it not?

Slightly related - I absolutely love it when my non-Jewish friends say Shana Tova to me on Rosh Hashana. So I think if you're friends with someone you should know when their important holidays are and what you would say to wish them a happy one. Too complicated for strangers, but for friends it's a nice thing to do. I absolutely hate it when people who i'm friends with, who i've known for years, and know full well I don't celebrate Christmas give me Christmas cards.

ETA: Quoted wrong and can't figure out how to fix it, so hopefully everyone knows what I mean :)

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This guy is not a proud Canadian, he is a bigoted Canadian. I think he should leave.

He should move south. His views are unfortunately mainstream in the US.

No, actually, keep him. We don't need any crazies.

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But having the only time of year that people acknowledge the existence of non-Christians is for a minor festival, just because it falls near a major Christian one, can grate on the nerves. It makes the fact that Christianity has dominated the American calendar glaringly obvious.
Indeed. People start thinking that Hanukkah is "the Jewish Xmas" and "so we're all good."

I've always thought that really, to be "fair" would mean to play up the minority holiday at the time when an important one actually HAPPENS, and specifically when the majority kids don't have a holiday so they have a turn to feel "not part of it, but we learned about it in school." So if we're talking Jewish holidays, maybe play up Rosh Hashana - it's in the fall, so while it's a "new year" it's also the American "new school year," so people can have a taste of a new beginning and a little empathy for it, and then eat apples and honey or whatever it is (the usual "tiny little taste of something from the holiday, for trivia").

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He should move south. His views are unfortunately mainstream in the US.

No, actually, keep him. We don't need any crazies.

I don't think his views are mainstream in the U.S., at least not in liberal MN.

I got the ALL CAPS Christmas rant on my Facebook today. I responded, didn't go over well. And the funny thing is we all grew up in a small town in upstate NY where we all had the same doctor, he was the only doctor. And he was Jewish, the only Jew in the town. So I say, well, would you say Merry Christmas to Dr. Shapiro? That usually makes them think at least. Of course Doc wouldn't have cared either way.

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I think it is very mainstream to believe that December is about Christmas, and anyone who does not fully get into the spirit is not a Real American. My little sister works at Walgreens and gets bitched at *every single day* by several customers over the Happy Holidays issue. This is in a blue state. Customers have actually demanded to talk to the manager because she said that and not Merry Christmas. This 19 year old girl is singlehandedly destroying American culture by not specifically referring to another religion's holiday in every single conversation. It's just ridiculous.

(And a customer got mad at her yesterday because the store stocks African American baby dolls, maybe that is just where the crayzees shop?)

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I just got this on my page. As embarrassed as I am to admit it, it made me furious.

I think I would reply "If you want me to leave your Christmas alone, I'm not going to talk about it behind it's back like that."

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