The war on Christmas

[CanadianHippie]

Would this war ever end? its getting boring

Not so long as certain types of Christians are incapable of understanding that not everyone celebrates Christmas, and that Christmas isn't the only holiday during that season and the other ones count too.

[Triplet3]

People who rant about evil pagan Christmas trees (and pagans who chortle about crypto-pagan Christmas trees) both annoy me, but the ranters about evil more because they're generally ruder.

I researched this some years ago and lost my notes, of course, but the gist is:

There is an enduring tradition of religious plays performed by the laity as part of the Catholic religious calendar. The Passion Plays of Holy Week are the best known today, but every season of the liturgical year had its play. In the mid-15th century, eastern European Catholics in many parishes performed a play on Christmas Eve that began with Adam and Eve in Eden and proceeded through the Fall, etc.--telling the story of the reasons for the Incarnation. I corresponded with a researcher who translated the opening scene of one of these plays for me. The main prop for the Christmas Eve play was a green tree, representing the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. In late December in eastern Europe, this tree had to be an evergreen. It was hung with fruit. (The script did not specify the fruit used, but the only one available was probably an apple from a barrel full of straw in someone's cellar.)

Later in the 15th century, the cycle of plays was changed by religious degree. The Christmas Eve play no longer featured the green tree of Eden.

The first written references to trees being set up in people's homes are clustered around the late 15th and early 16th centuries, beginning in Latvia and spreading to Germany and ever westward. The Christmas tree tradition reached the U.S. in the early 19th century.

Here's how I filled in the holes: People attending the Christmas Eve service missed seeing the green tree with its red fruit. Perhaps the children were especially upset because the tree meant Christmas--presents, feasting, carols, and fun. So parents cut down trees and set them up at home. A lovely green tree covered in decorations--paper flowers are mentioned very early on--was such a wonderful way to brighten the depths of winter that everyone followed suit. Of course, this is speculation, but I think it fits the facts.

Pagan traditions connected with live trees outdoors have survived alongside Christianity--think of wassailing the apple trees--and of course hanging greenery is also a pre-Christian custom, but the indoor Christmas tree is, as far as I can tell, a Christian invention.

Great post, thank you. I am really interested in the whole subject of calendar customs and observances, folklore etc., and it's frustrating the way some people try to find pagan origins for practically every custom you can think of, even though many of these claims have been completely discredited by academics. People love to claim that various customs have ancient pagan origins, even though there is usually no or very little historical evidence to link the modern-day customs with what we know of pre-Christian pagan traditions. Have you read any books by Ronald Hutton? I particularly recommend The Stations of the Sun: A History of the Ritual Year in Britain and The Rise and Fall of Merry England: The Ritual Year 1400–1700. Steve Roud's book The English Year is also really good for the history of calendar customs, observances and festivities celebrated (or previously celebrated) in England.

Tree wassailing is not actually a pagan tradition - or at any rate there is no evidence in the historical record to support the idea that it is. The earliest reference to it dates from as late as 1585. Likewise, the other form of wassailing (when people took a wassail-bowl round houses in their neighbourhood and sang good-luck songs) dates back to no earlier than the late middle ages. There's loads more examples of Christmas customs that people assume to be survivals of ancient pre-Christian rituals or traditions but that actually aren't. The custom of kissing under mistletoe, for example, and mummers' plays.

[Soldevi]

I find it hilarious how american or english speaking fundies point out the "Christ" in Christmas. I don't think that if there's a God he deisgnated English as the tongue related to him. In French, you can't spell any godly word in Noël (maybe Noah? lol) but it's the same feast or holidays!

Yeah. Same with the Finnish word for christmas (joulu). Its origin is in an ancient germanic loan word jewhla and it is the base for our two words: joulu (christmas) and juhla (celebration/feast). Swedish jul and Anglosaxian Yule origins there as well.

Then, Santa Claus...Here he is literally called yule male goat :D It comes from an old custom where young men dressed as goats and visited houses during christmas time and asked for booze and got wasted, eventually. They also scared children and gave them birch twigs, sometimes real presents. After WWII we too started to have jolly fat joulupukkis dressed to red and white but my as late as 1970s this old custom lived in some places - mostly in countryside - where joulupukki was wearing a fur coat and was much scarier (and gave birch twigs to naughty children). Our own old new year celebration (winter solstice) was mixed up with christian celebrations and it is still a weird mix of pagan customs and mythical creatures like gnomes.

Our christmas is throughly pagan and yet even local fundies wish "good yule" and don't bother to babble about its origin. But, I think because our words are not loaded with religious meanings they are accepted in all major religious and irreligious groups.

[browncoatslytherin]

mummers' plays.

what's that?

[thoughtful]

I am a Quaker, and though our family chooses to celebrate holidays, we are taught that every day is holy so Christmas isn't held in anymore awe then any other given day.

I'm not a Quaker, but that's the way I think, as well. Partly because I was raised to celebrate and cherish every day, and partly because I prefer calm and quiet over loud partying. ;)

Oh, and I love the shirts, etc. that say things like "Axial tilt is the reason for the season."

:D

[Triplet3]

what's that?

Seasonal folk-plays performed in a ritual manner by 'mummers' or 'guisers' at Christmas and at certain other times of the year in Britain. The plot usually revolves around the killing of one of the characters and his revival by a quack doctor. It has been claimed many times (particularly in the past) that these traditional plays are survivals of pre-Christian fertility rituals, but in fact there is no historical evidence whatsover to show that they existed before the mid 18th century.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

I don't know any specific fundie families or blogs that mention the war on Christmas but my facebook has had some lovely "Christ in Christmas" and "Jesus is the reason for the season" statuses displayed. One in particular pushed me over the edge, I had to make a status explaining the reason behind Christmas.

Now the girl who posted this status is a lovely person, a little flighty but she's very sweet. But I just found it to be the rudest status I've ever read. And so here is what she posted:

"I DO NOT CARE IF THIS DOES OFFEND SOMEONE…THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE…I AM SICK AND TIRED OF EVERY YEAR WHEN CHRISTMAS COMES AROUND; THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE CHRIST OUT OF CHRISTMAS BECAUSE IT MIGHT OFFEND SOMEONE…WELL, HOW ABOUT ALL OF THE CHRISTIANS?...WHAT ABOUT OFFENDING US BECAUSE YOU ARE TAKING OUR CHRIST OUT OF CHRISTMAS? ...CHRIST IS CHRISTMAS!...IF YOU AREN'T CELEBRATING CHRIST THEN WHY ARE YOU CELEBRATING?...CHRISTMAS IS ABOUT THE BIRTH OF OUR SAVIOR!...CHRISTMAS IS ONE OF A FEW HOLIDAYS LEFT THAT CELEBRATE "MY" CHRIST!...LEAVE "MY" CHRISTMAS ALONE!...AND TELL EVERYONE "MERRY CHRISTMAS", NOT HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!...RE-POST IF YOU’RE NOT ashamed!!"

The funny thing is a short while after posting this she decided to post a status about putting up the Christmas tree and lights. I really wanted to point out to her that Christmas trees and lights really don't have anything to do with Christ and so according to her first status she really should only be focusing on Christ. Sadly I just can't bring myself to do it because she is a nice person.

My little cousin posted the exact same thing in her status. I was tempted to reply, "well, it's not the only holiday in December" but she is still kind of youngish and I don't want to get into a religious fight. I have an great aunt in law who would think I'm even more of a non-Christian than I already am (I'm an ebil Catholick) if I posted something counter to the "Christ in Christmas" thing. Heck, I have a gazillion friends who are evangelicals or otherwise super-duper Christians who might get on my case.

But what if I DISGUISE IT WITH ::: DOUBLE ELLIPSES::: AND WRITE A SNARKY STATUS THAT LOOKS LIKE IT"S ABOUT CHRISTMAS!!!:::JUST LIKE THE ONE THAT BUGS ME, AND MAKE PEOPLE DO A DOUBLE TAKE BECAUSE "MY" CHRISTMAS IS ALL ABOUT WELCOMING OTHERS' HOLIDAYS AND I"M NOT SO INSECURE AND SELFISH THAT I NEED TO FORCE MY BELIEFS ON OTHERS!!! REPOST IF YOU"RE NOT AWESOME!!!

Thoughts? :lol:

[clarinetpower]

A politically correct Christmas poem

Twas the month before Christmas

When all through our land,

Not a Christian was praying

Nor taking a stand.

See the PC Police had taken away

The reason for Christmas -- no one could say.

The children were told by their schools not to sing,

About shepherds and wise men and angels and things.

It might hurt people's feelings, the teachers would say --

December 25th is just a "holiday."

Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit,

Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!

CDs from Madonna, an X Box, and I-Pod,

Something was changing, something quite odd!

Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanza

In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda.

As Targets were hanging their trees upside down

At Lowe's the word "Christmas" was nowhere to be found.

At K-Mart and Staples and Penney's and Sears,

You won't hear the word "Christmas" -- it won't touch your ears.

Inclusive, sensitive, di-ver-si-ty Are words that were used to intimidate me.

Now Daschle, now Darden, now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen,

On Boxer, on Rather, on Obama, on Clinton!

At the top of the Senate there arose such a clatter

To eliminate Jesus in all public matter.

And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith,

Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace.

The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded,

The Reason for the Season, stopped before it started.

So as you celebrate "winter break" under your "dream tree,"

Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.

Choose your words carefully, choose what you say,

Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS ... not Happy Holiday!

This was on a "friend's" facebook page tonight. I often hide her when her posts are like this. Arguing with her would be worthless, IYKWIM. But there you go.

So, I have to say, I am SO SICK of being BOMBARDED with Hannukah! Hannukah this, Hannukah that! Sheesh, it's ubiquitous! And holy crap Ramadan is taking foreeeeeeeeeeeeeeever. Does it ever end, with the fasting? And Kwanzaa, don't get me started. If I have to hear ONE MORE STUPID KWANZAA CAROL AT THE SUPERMARKET...

Oh, wait.

That's right.

There aren't any.

Huh.

Once, I wrote "Happy Eid to all my observing friends!" on my FB page, and my great aunt proceeded to kick off a conversation about how my Muslim friends were going to break down my front door and kill me in my bed with a machete. Yeah. That was fun.

Seriously, guys, WHAT'S WITH THE STUPID???

I'm Christian, but I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't scream MERRY CHRISTMAS and demand that I honor his right in Caesar's school to sing about a fucking reindeer.

/rant

PS Sorry about the cursing, but I have had a beer. And I probably should have another.

[Deesire]

My b-friend drives me crazy about this. He is on the whole "war on Christmas" bandwagon and I really don't understand why. He identifies as Christian though he does not practice in any way (not even an Easter and Christmas kind of Christian), so I really don't get why the expression "happy holidays" puts him in such a snit.

Personally, I'm big on "happy holidays".

I really like the comment about responding with "Merry Christmas but a crappy New Year". I'll try it on my b-friend and see how it flies.

[hapamama]

If I know someone celebrates Christmas, I say "Merry Christmas". When I know someone is Jewish, I'll say Happy Hannukah. I tell my pagan friends Happy Yule, and to my Japanese friends I say "Akemashite omedeto gozaimasu!"...

If I don't know what religion you are, you get a generic "Happy Holidays".

I do celebrate Christmas, but as a secular holiday. I grew up celebrating Christmas because Dad and his family were/are Christian. My kids are being raised Buddhist, and are learning about the various winter religious holidays. We have so many friends of so many religions so it makes sense to expose them to it all.

[browncoatslytherin]

Seasonal folk-plays performed in a ritual manner by 'mummers' or 'guisers' at Christmas and at certain other times of the year in Britain. The plot usually revolves around the killing of one of the characters and his revival by a quack doctor. It has been claimed many times (particularly in the past) that these traditional plays are survivals of pre-Christian fertility rituals, but in fact there is no historical evidence whatsover to show that they existed before the mid 18th century.

hmm, interesting. never heard of them. i shall have to look them up, though, they sound interesting! [at least, to a nerd like me :geek: ]

[thoughtful]

I think the "War on Christmas" nonsense is about 99% "what I perceive as semi-Christian/old-fashioned stuff is not dominating every corner of every place any more, dammit!"

I think the people who get really up in arms about it couldn't care less about Jesus.

When they start with the "it's not allowed anymore" crap, I have a hard time not getting angry. Nobody is stopping anybody from doing anything they want, some of us just don't want to participate, or have tax dollars pay for religious observance due to that pesky Constitution thing.

Why is that so hard to understand?

[InkyGirl]

I've already pointed out the none sense on my fb page. So far the response has been positive. Last year a debate got pretty ugly when I mention the history of the x in Xmas.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

If I know someone celebrates Christmas, I say "Merry Christmas". When I know someone is Jewish, I'll say Happy Hannukah. I tell my pagan friends Happy Yule, and to my Japanese friends I say "Akemashite omedeto gozaimasu!"...

Just to be clear though (though you probably know anyway) don't say that until the new year has started. Until then it's "yoi otoshi wo"

New Year is my main holiday too. It's all about money in envelopes when you're a kid and have no other income that New Year loot is precious, precious!

...which all reminds me I need to start making my New Year cards already.

X'mas (as I always spelled it) seems to be a much bigger deal now, but still it's about eating Kentucky Fried Chicken and maybe having a romantic night out with a date, eating a X'mas cake maybe, and if you're a house that does it, maybe kids get a token gift (though maybe now kids do it more, I don't know). But it's just the tiniest prelude to the real holidays which is New Year. Heck, I had school most years on 12/25. But for New Year, everything shut down hard, it's just sitting around the house eating festival food that mom cooked for a week and playing games (poker at our house!) and watching all the crazy specials on TV, particularly the "red and white singing contest" that is on New Year's eve and ends at 11:45 when it changes over to broadcast footage of temple bells ringing (if you can't hear the ones near your house). Oh, and eating noodles at midnight too...

Now I live in the US and sort of live the hybrid life, we have money envelopes if younger relatives were to visit, have noodles AND champagne, and eat special food, but it's all about bittorrent for the New Year programs so it's a few days delayed, ha.

As for (American) fundies I know of one family that thinks Xmas isn't really a Biblical holiday, so they explicitly don't treat it as one, but go all out to celebrate the American folk traditions of the season, with the tree and Santa and all the rest of it. "HeartKeeper Common Room."

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think the "War on Christmas" nonsense is about 99% "what I perceive as semi-Christian/old-fashioned stuff is not dominating every corner of every place any more, dammit!"

Yeah. I think it's a nostalgia for a time when a generically Christian home was assumed as the norm, and so those traditions were allowed into schools and everywhere else without any need to talk about multiculturalism. Just think about the movie "A Christmas Story."

I will say though that I spent a year in a Washington DC elementary school in the mid-70s, and they did Xmas in school like crazy - singing carols, doing a play, writing letters to Santa, making ornaments, making explicitly "Christmas presents for your parents," the whole bit. And this was at a school that had some 60 nationalities of kids attending.

Schools by me now certainly don't do that (our local schools also have a wide variety of nationalities attending) and there are frequently letters to the editor complaining how they miss the good old days when they could get all excited about explicitly Christmas in school and have parties and the rest.

[Boogalou]

My little cousin posted the exact same thing in her status. I was tempted to reply, "well, it's not the only holiday in December" but she is still kind of youngish and I don't want to get into a religious fight. I have an great aunt in law who would think I'm even more of a non-Christian than I already am (I'm an ebil Catholick) if I posted something counter to the "Christ in Christmas" thing. Heck, I have a gazillion friends who are evangelicals or otherwise super-duper Christians who might get on my case.

But what if I DISGUISE IT WITH ::: DOUBLE ELLIPSES::: AND WRITE A SNARKY STATUS THAT LOOKS LIKE IT"S ABOUT CHRISTMAS!!!:::JUST LIKE THE ONE THAT BUGS ME, AND MAKE PEOPLE DO A DOUBLE TAKE BECAUSE "MY" CHRISTMAS IS ALL ABOUT WELCOMING OTHERS' HOLIDAYS AND I"M NOT SO INSECURE AND SELFISH THAT I NEED TO FORCE MY BELIEFS ON OTHERS!!! REPOST IF YOU"RE NOT AWESOME!!!

Thoughts? :lol:

IMMA REPOST :::..:.:.: THIS RIGHT NOW:::...BYE CHRISTMAS WAR...:::IORS!

[notsocommon]

When working retail a fre years ago, I so wanted to say "piss off and DIE!" To those who got all twisted over whatever greeting I gave. Really, someone is WISHING YOU WELL. Take it in the spirit it is intended. I wish I had such few problems in life that someone not using the exact *right* phrase in wishing me well was something to get twisty about.

[PBrooke]

Yeah. Same with the Finnish word for christmas (joulu). Its origin is in an ancient germanic loan word jewhla and it is the base for our two words: joulu (christmas) and juhla (celebration/feast). Swedish jul and Anglosaxian Yule origins there as well.

Then, Santa Claus...Here he is literally called yule male goat :D It comes from an old custom where young men dressed as goats and visited houses during christmas time and asked for booze and got wasted, eventually. They also scared children and gave them birch twigs, sometimes real presents. After WWII we too started to have jolly fat joulupukkis dressed to red and white but my as late as 1970s this old custom lived in some places - mostly in countryside - where joulupukki was wearing a fur coat and was much scarier (and gave birch twigs to naughty children). Our own old new year celebration (winter solstice) was mixed up with christian celebrations and it is still a weird mix of pagan customs and mythical creatures like gnomes.

Our christmas is throughly pagan and yet even local fundies wish "good yule" and don't bother to babble about its origin. But, I think because our words are not loaded with religious meanings they are accepted in all major religious and irreligious groups.

Hyvää joulua ja onnellista uutta vuotta! ...Is all the Finnish I know. One of my good friends is from a Finnish part of Michigan. :mrgreen:

[hapamama]

Just to be clear though (though you probably know anyway) don't say that until the new year has started. Until then it's "yoi otoshi wo"

New Year is my main holiday too. It's all about money in envelopes when you're a kid and have no other income that New Year loot is precious, precious!

...which all reminds me I need to start making my New Year cards already.

X'mas (as I always spelled it) seems to be a much bigger deal now, but still it's about eating Kentucky Fried Chicken and maybe having a romantic night out with a date, eating a X'mas cake maybe, and if you're a house that does it, maybe kids get a token gift (though maybe now kids do it more, I don't know). But it's just the tiniest prelude to the real holidays which is New Year. Heck, I had school most years on 12/25. But for New Year, everything shut down hard, it's just sitting around the house eating festival food that mom cooked for a week and playing games (poker at our house!) and watching all the crazy specials on TV, particularly the "red and white singing contest" that is on New Year's eve and ends at 11:45 when it changes over to broadcast footage of temple bells ringing (if you can't hear the ones near your house). Oh, and eating noodles at midnight too...

Now I live in the US and sort of live the hybrid life, we have money envelopes if younger relatives were to visit, have noodles AND champagne, and eat special food, but it's all about bittorrent for the New Year programs so it's a few days delayed, ha.

"Yoi otoshi wo" is the one I couldn't remember. It's been a long time since I've really had to use my Japanese.

I'm half Japanese, half Caucasian, born and raised in California. We had hybrid holidays. Hubby is 4th generation Japanese-American, and his holidays were more or less hybrid too. Christmas tree and stockings for Christmas, Ozoni, osechi ryori and reruns on the internation channel for New Years Eve and New Years Day.

[O Latin]

I never mind "happy holidays" because, as others have already pointed out, there are multiple holidays this time of year. I liked the "Merry Christmas but have a sucky New Year's" idea. And I really don't care what the cashier at Wal-mart says to me as I put my stuff in my cart and walk away. I'm probably not listening anyway.

That being said, I think Christmas has become such a secular holiday that I can't imagine any reasonable person getting offended by someone wishing them a Merry Christmas (provided, of course, it was a genuine well wish and not one of these war on Christmas folks making a big fuss about it). At least where I live, most people celebrate Christmas whether they're religious or not, and I would probably say "Merry Christmas" without even thinking about it.

[upthedownstaircase]

Wait a minute......I thought this had all been settled. Didn't Bill O'Reilly save Xmas a couple of years ago?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Annette]

OH GOD, don't remind me of the War on Christmas. This is the regime I live under: http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=15259

Check out the Naughty or Nice list. I get a little thrill every time I patronize a Naughty establishment. Also, it tickles my funny bone that all of LU's office supplies are purchased from a Naughty company.

[NurseNell]

OH GOD, don't remind me of the War on Christmas. This is the regime I live under: http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=15259

Check out the Naughty or Nice list. I get a little thrill every time I patronize a Naughty establishment. Also, it tickles my funny bone that all of LU's office supplies are purchased from a Naughty company.

It looks like it's just based on their Christmas ads, not business practices.

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh good grief. From Teri Maxwell's Mom's Corner that someone posted:

Another desire of our hearts is that our children would learn to serve and minister with no expectations. On an evening near Christmas, we go caroling to the nursing home and also to our neighbors. Last year the highlight was a dear old man confined to his bed in the nursing home and appearing to be almost unconscious. His eyes were closed and his blanket pulled up under his chin. When we began singing Silent Night, he couldn't open his eyes, but almost immediately he began an agitated moving of one of his hands. As we continued singing, he struggled with his arm and the blanket. Finally, he pulled his hand out, eyes still closed, and lifted his arm in praise to the Lord. I don't think there was a dry adult eye as we left that room.

I've heard the Maxwells sing. Does anyone else think that poor man was raising his hand in a desperate effort to get them to STOP?

[notsocommon]

It looks like it's just based on their Christmas ads, not business practices.

Because Jesus obviously cares more about Christmas ads than ethics, ya know?