The war on Christmas

[Avalondaughter]

Sometimes I do sympathize a bit with the War on Christmas people because it does seem like Christmas is over-silenced at times.

For example, the building where I live has a holiday display in the lobby. There is a Christmas tree and this weird mechanical Santa. The decorations on the tree are mostly blue. There is a wreath on the wall that is also blue. The word Christmas is not posted anywhere.

On the other side of the room there is a banner that reads "Happy Hanukah" that also features a menorah. There is a table with a blue drape over it and on that table is a menorah and two teddy bearts wearing yarmulkes, tallises, and carrying dreidls and Torah scrolls .

I don't know if Jews outnumber Christians in my building. I'm sure there are a few Hindus (they don't decorate for Diwali in the lobby though). I'd wager there are Christians in the building who might feel a bit left out because the word "Christmas" seems forbidden.

Hanukah is a minor holiday. I don't see too many Jewish family putting up giant inflatable driedls on their lawns in December or electric menorahs in their windows (I know Christians like to do that to show how open-minded they are - my grandmother used to do it too). I get the feeling that it's the folks who celebrate Christmas are the ones who care the most about decorations. I sometimes feel like saying, "let them have it!" Yes, I understand that not everyone celebrates Christmas, but seeing some decorations isn't going to force you to celebrate it, or embrace the beliefs.

[Mama Mia]

It sounds like your building does have Christmas decorations ( tree, santa, etc. ) .. if you want to have a banner or sign that says "Merry Christmas" to go along with the rest of the stuff .. why don't you just ASK the building manager if you can put one up ?

It seems, to me, that a lot of this feeling that there is a "war" on Christmas is more people assuming they aren't allowed to say/write/decorate for Christmas -- when they actually could if they wanted to.

[Avalondaughter]

It sounds like your building does have Christmas decorations ( tree, santa, etc. ) .. if you want to have a banner or sign that says "Merry Christmas" to go along with the rest of the stuff .. why don't you just ASK the building manager if you can put one up ?

It seems, to me, that a lot of this feeling that there is a "war" on Christmas is more people assuming they aren't allowed to say/write/decorate for Christmas -- when they actually could if they wanted to.

It's done by a committee - mostly involving the condo board, so these things are done by consensus of the group that volunteers to get involved. Obviously this group decided not to do anything too Christmasy. My mother saw that Christmas tree and said, "If there is such a thing as a Hanukah Bush, then that tree is it."

Just thinking of an office where I worked where Christmas decorations were severely restricted, but those who wanted to decorate for Hanukah could put up anything they liked.

Yes, the obvious answer to that would be for me to be involved in the decorating committee. True enough, but I'm not that interested in joining, and it really doesn't bother me. I just understand why it would bother some people. It gives me a little sympathy for those who complain of the war on Christmas.

[emmiedahl]

So switching to a blue color scheme makes it not Christmas-y enough? Is there some deep meaning to red and green? It sounds like the building is just trying to cover their bases and be inclusive. Diwali is long over, so there would be no use decorating for that right now.

[Mama Mia]

So if you work at an office where people are allowed to decorate for one holiday, but not another -- why wouldn't you complain about that ?

I can see there being either a regulation that people can decorate however they want - or a regulation that no holiday decorations are allowed - but it seems weird ( and probably illegal ) to have a religious preference like that in a place of employment.

And ditto about the colors.. one of our kids is purchasing a purple fake tree .. is there a particular religion ascribed to that :D

[ChickeyMonkey]

It's not incorrect, it's just old-fashioned. "Is" is the older way of forming the past participle. "Has" is the innovation.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=399

This isn't even an issue of dialectical variation, as the older form is well-established.

Thanks for the info, Conuly. I never knew it was an old-fashioned form of the past participle. I do know that "ask" and "aks" was in fact used long ago, and that "ask" beat out "aks" as the word to use. I also learned in my linguistics class that "stood" is another way to say "stayed," as in, "He stood at that house," instead of, "He stayed at that house."

I think Linguistics is fascinating. The "Is risen" still bugs me though :)

[Conuly]

I think Linguistics is fascinating. The "Is risen" still bugs me though :)

Well, sure. I can't stand hearing other equally valid constructions, because they're not what I'm used to. I just try to use the word "wrong" or "incorrect" sparingly. It's my own pet peeve :)

[LucySnowe]

http://deeperstory.com/santa-and-jesus/

Ashleigh provides a Santa v Jesus recap that is thoughtful and sane.

[klavierspieler]

Has anyone seen this yet? It has been sent to me by several fundies so far, all the same ones who sent me that annoying "180 Movie."

I love the first comment. "How the strawman stole Christmas." LOL

[PBrooke]

Okay, I came across this a few days ago, but I thought this thread was dead. But since it "is risen," here we go.

From my book "It's a Wonderful Christmas: The Best of the Holidays 1940-1965" by Susan Waggoner (yes I realize it should be italicized but I'm typing in Quick Reply by accident so suck it), page 45, Chapter "Just 364 Shopping Days 'Til Christmas," section "The Well-Dressed Store":

"Why are holiday windows invariably secular? Has commercialism completely drowned out Christmas's true origins? It turns out the opposite is true - retailers have always been cautious of anything that might seem to exploit religion. In 1952, to satisfy customers who'd requested a nativity display, Dayton's in Minneapolis created a sacred side of the store, keeping it separate from the Santas, sleigh bells, toy soldiers and decorated trees that enlivened the rest of the store."

[thoughtful]

Has anyone seen this yet? It has been sent to me by several fundies so far, all the same ones who sent me that annoying "180 Movie."

I love the first comment. "How the strawman stole Christmas." LOL

And the second --

Can't we put aside our differences and celebrate Ted McGinley getting work?

[thoughtful]

Despite my uncle, I do have some really cool Facebook friends. One of them posted this link today, which I thought might also resonate with some of the FreeJingerites:

jennifermcgrail.com/2011/11/happy-holidays-and-other-four-letter-words

Very nice.

And if the pic of the creche figures is from her own set, she has good taste, too -- I like those!

[thoughtful]

It's not incorrect, it's just old-fashioned. "Is" is the older way of forming the past participle. "Has" is the innovation.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=399

This isn't even an issue of dialectical variation, as the older form is well-established.

I always thought it was because "risen," in this use, was an adjective!

risen [ˈrɪzən]

vb

the past participle of rise

adj

(Christian Religious Writings / Theology) restored from death; ascended into glory the risen Christ

So it sounded right, even to my modern ears.

[snarkbillie]

So switching to a blue color scheme makes it not Christmas-y enough? Is there some deep meaning to red and green? It sounds like the building is just trying to cover their bases and be inclusive. Diwali is long over, so there would be no use decorating for that right now.

Red represents Jesus' blood shed for our sins and green represents our everlasting life thanks to redemption. /fundie answer.

[thoughtful]

http://deeperstory.com/santa-and-jesus/

Ashleigh provides a Santa v Jesus recap that is thoughtful and sane.

Nice. I do love to see it when people can set aside the "holier-than-thou" and opt for kindness.

:D

[debrand]

Wow. I had no idea that blue was not a 'Christmas ' color. Honestly, I thought that people put decorations on the tree based on their individual taste. I've never heard of anyone being annoyed because of the color of decorations

[NurseNell]

Wow. I had no idea that blue was not a 'Christmas ' color. Honestly, I thought that people put decorations on the tree based on their individual taste. I've never heard of anyone being annoyed because of the color of decorations

Blue is the color for Hanukah but it is also the color for Mary, the mother of Jesus. I say go with whatever color you like. Personally, I don't like clear lights, and I prefer lights of all different colors on a tree. But it doesn't matter because I have 5 cats which means no tree. :animals-cat:

[emmiedahl]

Wow. I had no idea that blue was not a 'Christmas ' color. Honestly, I thought that people put decorations on the tree based on their individual taste. I've never heard of anyone being annoyed because of the color of decorations

Fundies might be offended by my pirate themed tree this year.

[thoughtful]

Blue is the color for Hanukah but it is also the color for Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Blue is sometimes used for Hanukah decorations, I think, because manufacturers and others think of it as a "Jewish color." It is on the Israeli flag, often used in the trim on Tallit, etc.

But I don't remember it having anything in particular to do with Hanukah.

[NurseNell]

Blue is sometimes used for Hanukah decorations, I think, because manufacturers and others think of it as a "Jewish color." It is on the Israeli flag, often used in the trim on Tallit, etc.

But I don't remember it having anything in particular to do with Hanukah.

What I have been told is that blue and silver, or blue and white, represent the prayer shawl. I can as my rabbi friend.

[thoughtful]

What I have been told is that blue and silver, or blue and white, represent the prayer shawl.

Yep -- that's a tallit. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

But a tallit is not a Hanukah object -- it is something for year-round use.

[ChickeyMonkey]

Blue is the color for Hanukah but it is also the color for Mary, the mother of Jesus. I say go with whatever color you like. Personally, I don't like clear lights, and I prefer lights of all different colors on a tree. But it doesn't matter because I have 5 cats which means no tree. :animals-cat:

Oh noes! The rainbow gay agenda! Why are you shoving your gay agenda down our throats with your rainbow lights?! (pun intended?)

Sorry, I couldn't help it. ;)

[Nothing2CHere]

You know, anyone who is afraid that all the meaning is going to be sucked out of Christmas because retail store clerks are saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" just has to spend a few hours actually shopping to realize that it's still All About Christmas - just listen to the music the stores are piping into the store. I was in JC Penney's the other night, and I wasn't hearing secular songs about Frosty the Snowman and Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, I was hearing songs like The First Noel, The Little Drummer Boy, and the best, I have no idea what this song was, but the lyrics were all about, "As we celebrate the birth of our savvvvvvviiiiiiooooooooooorrrrrrrrrr!!!!"

OK, because I love you FJ, I went on a YouTube search. This may or may not have been the song (I tried to block it out), but the sentiment was pretty much the same, "I'm going to hit you over the head with a frying pan that Christmas is all about Jesus!:":

yYAM9Hav6XQ

[Annette]

Blue, purple, and rose are actually Advent colors, so trees decorated in these colors are liturgically church-year correct!

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's done by a committee - mostly involving the condo board, so these things are done by consensus of the group that volunteers to get involved. Obviously this group decided not to do anything too Christmasy. My mother saw that Christmas tree and said, "If there is such a thing as a Hanukah Bush, then that tree is it."

Just thinking of an office where I worked where Christmas decorations were severely restricted, but those who wanted to decorate for Hanukah could put up anything they liked.

Yes, the obvious answer to that would be for me to be involved in the decorating committee. True enough, but I'm not that interested in joining, and it really doesn't bother me. I just understand why it would bother some people. It gives me a little sympathy for those who complain of the war on Christmas.

Let me get this straight:

There is a display in the lobby with tree and Santa. There is also a display that's clearly for Hannukah. You and your family simply assume that the Christmas display isn't Christmas-y enough and that's it's part of a larger societal "war on Christmas" - but can't be bothered to actually get involved with the condo committee that does the decorating so that you could find out the actual reasoning?

I'm reading this as "why bother checking facts when you can just make assumptions?"

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As it happens, I'll be in the Bethlehem area around Christmas this year. Shall I report on the color of the Christmas lights and the form of greeting used by Walmart clerks? I would, but there is no Walmart in Bethlehem.