Artemis (Cynthia Jeub) 2: Still Grifting

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Hane said:

I’ve been to book talks with several successful novelists, and all of them were very frank about the hours they put in daily, about their work process, and the vagaries of the business interactions that got them where they are. Making a living as a writer is not for the faint hearted.

Many years ago I went to a talk by Clan of the Cave Bear author Jean Auel.  This when Clan of the Cave Bear was becoming successful but before any sequels so 1980 or 1981.   From her WIKI: "While a student, she joined Mensa and worked at Tektronix as a clerk (1965–1966), a circuit-board designer (1966–1973), a technical writer (1973–1974), and a credit manager (1974–1976)."  She got her MBA in 1976, so she would been better able to navigate the business end of things  as Earth Children series became incredibly successful.

I recall her referencing the technical writer job in her talk.  She noted that  Clan of the Cave Bear required many rewrites and a lot of editing.  

[AmazonGrace]

I used to love that series when I was a teenager but later I thought it was a bit much of a random coincidence that Ayla invented every invention known to man.

[Howl]

16 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

I used to love that series when I was a teenager but later I thought it was a bit much of a random coincidence that Ayla invented every invention known to man.

I was an adult and quite entranced by the first book, but lost interest and don't think I read the third book. 

[formerhsfundie]

10 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Yes, I once knew an author who was quite established. She could easily get a book contract if she wanted one, but she wasn't famous. I was helping her with a business matter and saw her tax returns. I was astonished at how little she made from her writing. 

Most of us have some artistic interest that we'd love to do all day. Unfortunately, it's usually not possible, even if you are talented. It takes luck, talent and often a level of privilege to be successful in an artistic field.

One issue here is Art abandoned her name that had existing "brand recognition" which means she has to start over almost from scratch. Like Twitter becoming X, she has to build up a new writing identity and that will take a long time. This level of self-sabotage is understandable given the circumstances, but unfortunate for the goal of creating a viable living with perks from writing alone. 

7 hours ago, Hane said:

I’ve been to book talks with several successful novelists, and all of them were very frank about the hours they put in daily, about their work process, and the vagaries of the business interactions that got them where they are. Making a living as a writer is not for the faint hearted.

And dedication. Skills she would learn and improve on if she started working and learning how to adapt to modern life by getting a job, for instance. It's all related. 

[Coconut Flan]

38 minutes ago, formerhsfundie said:

This level of self-sabotage is understandable given the circumstances, but unfortunate for the goal of creating a viable living with perks from writing alone. 

From what I've read of her writing, she needs to go get a regular job and take quite a few classes.  There was nothing outside absolutely ordinary in anything I read.  Hopefully I was merely unlucky in what I found.  

[formerhsfundie]

57 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

From what I've read of her writing, she needs to go get a regular job and take quite a few classes.  There was nothing outside absolutely ordinary in anything I read.  Hopefully I was merely unlucky in what I found.  

Sometimes I want a t-shirt that says, "All I got from fundamentalism was this lousy t-shirt." I feel like that is the value of writing a book about the experience. Maybe make a little money off of the exploitation that was done to you. Launch a writing career. Redeem lost time. 

She got me interested, I will say that. I like reading fundie memoirs. She built a following around that premise and then moved on without producing the book.

At this point that particular project seems to be abandoned. All that work! Evaporating. 

[NurseNell]

Most recent begging for money is so her partner can go visit his best friend in the hospital and bring flowers. Given Ryann's lung issues visiting someone in a hospital might not be in his best interest. And flowers may not even be allowed if the friend is as ill as Art implies.

[Jackie3]

11 hours ago, formerhsfundie said:

Sometimes I want a t-shirt that says, "All I got from fundamentalism was this lousy t-shirt." I feel like that is the value of writing a book about the experience. Maybe make a little money off of the exploitation that was done to you. Launch a writing career. Redeem lost time. 

She got me interested, I will say that. I like reading fundie memoirs. She built a following around that premise and then moved on without producing the book.

At this point that particular project seems to be abandoned. All that work! Evaporating. 

I can cut her some slack on that point. It can be hard to revisit one's childhood, and retell traumatic incidents. It takes a certain amount of healing to do so.

I've never been clear on the trauma Art suffered. She's never mentioned SA, thank goodness. The extent of physical abuse is unclear. Did the Jeubs use plumbing rod? Was there a lot of violence, like at the Andersons? It clearly sounds like there was financial abuse, but beyond that I'm not certain. A book would clarify those issues, but she has to be ready to write one.

I recently realized that Art was the oldest child born to Chris and Wendy (the two older girls were born out of wedlock to Wendy). That's a tough place to be, the oldest girl born to fundie parents. You grow up with your parents' beliefs at their most fervent. They are at their strictest. Plus, there's lots of little kids to care for.

The younger Jeubs seem to be having a more relaxed upbringing with greater exposure to the outside world (for example, they've gone to school)

[Hane]

@Howl, back in 1986, while my company was on strike, I worked at a Waldenbooks. The following anecdote came up recently when I was at a small independent bookstore, and the young woman in line mentioned that she’d love to work at a bookstore. I told her my days were full of tweens demanding to know why we didn’t have the latest Sweet Valley High book, teens wanting Cliff’s Notes because they “didn’t wanna read a damn book,” and customers discounting my recommendations as “too weird.”

My fave was the woman who wanted to know why we didn’t have the latest “Clan of the Cave Bear” book, and I told her, “Last I heard, she’s still in Siberia researching it.”

 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Hane said:

My fave was the woman who wanted to know why we didn’t have the latest “Clan of the Cave Bear” book, and I told her, “Last I heard, she’s still in Siberia researching it.”

I was reading Jean Auel's wiki.  After her early success, she did get to meet many of the researchers whose work she consulted for the book and travel to archaeological sites.  Also, she raised 5 kids before her writing career took off. 

It's nice to reflect back to a time when reading fiction was such a powerful experience. Now I read mostly murder mysteries.  However, Bill Browder's Freezing Order is a non-fiction thriller that knocked my socks off. 

Does Artemis have an illness with a fatigue component?  That would make it very difficult to work at a job outside the home. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Howl

[formerhsfundie]

7 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I can cut her some slack on that point. It can be hard to revisit one's childhood, and retell traumatic incidents. It takes a certain amount of healing to do so.

I've never been clear on the trauma Art suffered. She's never mentioned SA, thank goodness. The extent of physical abuse is unclear. Did the Jeubs use plumbing rod? Was there a lot of violence, like at the Andersons? It clearly sounds like there was financial abuse, but beyond that I'm not certain. A book would clarify those issues, but she has to be ready to write one.

I recently realized that Art was the oldest child born to Chris and Wendy (the two older girls were born out of wedlock to Wendy). That's a tough place to be, the oldest girl born to fundie parents. You grow up with your parents' beliefs at their most fervent. They are at their strictest. Plus, there's lots of little kids to care for.

The younger Jeubs seem to be having a more relaxed upbringing with greater exposure to the outside world (for example, they've gone to school)

I agree. Yes. You can get the slack, but then you get put in the grifter category.

You can get the glory, but then you have to write the book.

Art's place in the family is exactly why I'm interested in her story. We share the same place in the birth order, and both had fundie parents who liked grifting and debate and enjoyed psychologically manipulating their children. 

I fully sympathize with why she hasn't written the book. It's overwhelming. So is recovering from trauma. This is why fundiedom sucks so bad. Expecting someone to meta analyze their own abusive childhood in words is a high bar.

I'm just saying, unfortunately abuse memoirs are a glutted market., but there seems to be always a niche for well-written fundie escapee stories. It's not like the experience comes with a t-shirt, but if you are a writer and can write about the experience, there may be some money in it for the survivor. 

[LilMissMetaphor]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

 

Does Artemis have an illness with a fatigue component?  That would make it very difficult to work at a job outside the home. 

 

I have a form of blood cancer, one of whose primary symptoms is extreme fatigue.  I still work a 30-hour week outside the home.  Because not working is not an option.

[NurseNell]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

 

Does Artemis have an illness with a fatigue component?  That would make it very difficult to work at a job outside the home. 

I have been through cancer treatment several times, fatigue was my middle name, I worked, no choice. Do you know how many people deal with fatigue, be it from cancer, depression, or any number of medical issues who get up every day and go to work? She doesn't work outside the home because she chooses not to. She could also work from home, it is a growing option in today's post Covid world.

[formerhsfundie]

9 hours ago, NurseNell said:

Most recent begging for money is so her partner can go visit his best friend in the hospital and bring flowers. Given Ryann's lung issues visiting someone in a hospital might not be in his best interest. And flowers may not even be allowed if the friend is as ill as Art implies.

When rent is coming and the cats will be needing food and kitty litter. Flowers. 

Make a card!

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

On 9/22/2023 at 6:01 PM, NurseNell said:

I have been through cancer treatment several times, fatigue was my middle name, I worked, no choice. Do you know how many people deal with fatigue, be it from cancer, depression, or any number of medical issues who get up every day and go to work? She doesn't work outside the home because she chooses not to. She could also work from home, it is a growing option in today's post Covid world.

I recall that recently they said they couldn't do any work from home job because "they don't pay well" and they can't always meet deadlines. As far as disability, they won't disclose exactly what it is. 

I do have sympathy for those who have survived trauma and are deconstructing, but they seem to think they can claim disability and the state will wave a magic wand and they'll never have to work or meet a deadline again. It doesn't work that way. Like you said, untold millions of people around the world deal with pain, fatigue, and other obstacles and still make it to work every day because they have no other choice. Art really believes that throwing the "I was raised in a Christian homeschooling family and they made me do too much" story will garner sympathy, but it's not going to. 

The inability of them to see their own weaknesses (we sometimes have to take a job that doesn't pay as much as we would like, your inability to meet deadlines is something you need to work on, that's called being an adult) is sad. It's also sad they believe most jobs are slavery to some billionaire capitalist and so they use it as a convenient excuse. Because the people they ask for $ from have most likely had to confront their weaknesses to better their careers and become comfortable with the idea that like it or not, we are in a capitalist society, and deal with it. 

The entitlement, the inability to set a budget and stick with it (going to the grocery store or ordering Walmart delivery and having some of that be easy meals for times when they don't want to cook), and the idea that this is in any way a sustainable "lifestyle" is just too much. 

 

[JesusCampSongs]

There’s a whole cottage industry of former fundie/evangelical adults who make a living by writing trauma dumping on twitter and gaining Patreon supporters guilt-tripping their followers into financially supporting them. Part of me feels badly for them because they are obviously emotionally stunted and have nonexistent life skills, but that’s tempered by the fact that they are actively resistant to learning these skills and are hostile to anyone who has the temerity to suggest that they adult up and get a job. If you’re mentally and physically well enough to complain on twitter all day long, you’re well enough to get a WFH call center job, most of which start at $15/hr and provide benefits. And $15/hr goes a lot further when you’re not having to pay for work clothes, gas, etc and the job itself provides the equipment. 

[Maggie Mae]

They need want $25 for CBD oil. 

I read back a bit, including the FJ write up on these people. I had forgotten that the Jeubs used to accept donations of clothing and food from their neighbors. I did not forget how much I hate Chris Jeub. Out of all the weird fundies I've learned about, him and Lori have always been the most infuriating to me. Just pompous and arrogant, but simultaneously stupid. 

I really want Art to "get it" and start making steps to end the cycle of grifting and poverty. 

 

[formerhsfundie]

What never ceases to amaze me is the amount of work people will do to avoid actual work.

Grifting is the family business. It's the way she was raised. It's also... work. Every grift gambit out there involves a bit of dedication and effort. If Art is getting tired of grifting, that's a good thing. But also... basic needs? Please. 

CBD isn't a basic need. Bamboo cleaning supplies is not a basic need. DoorDash, also not a basic need. She is all over the place. 

[Howl]

11 hours ago, HumbleJillyMuffin said:

The entitlement, the inability to set a budget and stick with it (going to the grocery store or ordering Walmart delivery and having some of that be easy meals for times when they don't want to cook), and the idea that this is in any way a sustainable "lifestyle" is just too much. 

Yes, it's a disaster in the making when all the donations dry up. They could end up in a very, very bad place.  (Is Artemis the person who posts here as @woonaluna? Or is that a different Jeub daughter?)

If they are begging for CBD for pain, they might want to consider a medical approach for pain management. I know it's incredibly difficult to jump through all the hoops required to go on state/Federal disability/MediCaid, but have they tried that route?  It's one way to find out if they are too disabled to work.  Do they live in Colorado?  

Chris Jeub is currently making bank by turning part of their property Monument Glamping.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Howl

[fundiewatch]

Chris Jeub is a narcissistic asshole. I’m sorry that he didn’t find this more reasonable path while the siblings were young. Instead, hateful homeschool based employment and seeking the spotlight while spiritually and physically abusing the kids. And likely Art as eldest had to sometimes participate in that. Guilt and shame and pain are tough companions in life. 

[Coconut Flan]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

I know it's incredibly difficult to jump through all the hoops required to go on state/Federal disability/MediCaid, but have they tried that route? 

Having worked there it really is not inccredibly difficult.  What is difficult is that 60% or so of people who believe they are disabled do not fit the definition acccording to SSA regulations.  You fill out a form,  your doctor(s) submit medical evidence, and a decision is made.  Doctors generally are not trained in disability standards so they aren't a patient's best advocate.  There are several volumes of standards and the examiner lines up the medical records against the standard for the disorder and it's a yes or no as to meeting them.  For instance with heart failure one needs a certain ejecction fraction or worse being on or having tried certain medications.  It's really quite simple for certain conditions.  The problem with chronic pain is that it is not a separate recognizable condition.  You need a verifiable cause and an inability to perform any substantial gainful activity for a period of time or the rest of your life.  If someone is a surgeon say but could handle being a pathologist they will be denied..  Either of this couple would have to show an identifiable medical condition that would prevent them from doing any job that they are currently eligible for or could be educcated or trained to do in a reasonable time.  

One of my friends was a licensed undertaker.  She hurt her back and after a year of treatment had to accept it was always going to be beyond her to return to that field.  Her disability was obviously denied as there are a lot of jobs one can do that do not involve lifting.  She was retrained to fill a VA hospital position that was sedentary.  Did she resent it and fight it?  Oh yeah.  Eventually she accepted the situation and is now making more money than she did before.  It was hard emotionally, but for society it was the right way to go and eventually she saw it was better for her.

Now as to whether the disability standards are fair and equitable, that's a separate discussion.  What was really weird for me was reading the disability standard for the disease that I have and knowing I would be approved for disability yet preferring to work which I did.  

Edited September 24, 2023 by Coconut Flan

[Maggie Mae]

22 minutes ago, Howl said:

Do they live in Colorado?  

No, Art moved to Seattle. Art has moved around quite a bit since leaving. They drifted from place to place, always leaving a burned bridge in their wake. I know it sounds mean, but at some point it's not just bad roommates. People don't enjoy living with strangers who don't help out, pay rent, and sleep all day. 

22 minutes ago, Howl said:

Chris Jeub is currently making bank by turning part of their property Monument Glamping.

 

I can not figure this business plan out, or how he's making money. Our airbnb is an actual house, in a tourist area, and doesn't have those amenities. We charge way more and barely cover the mortgage + expenses/repairs. How are people even finding out about their campground? They could list on vrbo/airbnb but instead he kind of made his own website? I don't get it. 

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, formerhsfundie said:

What never ceases to amaze me is the amount of work people will do to avoid actual work.

Grifting is the family business. It's the way she was raised. It's also... work. Every grift gambit out there involves a bit of dedication and effort. If Art is getting tired of grifting, that's a good thing. But also... basic needs? Please. 

CBD isn't a basic need. Bamboo cleaning supplies is not a basic need. DoorDash, also not a basic need. She is all over the place. 

It's the word "necessary" that gets me. It isn't necessary. There's work Art could do. 

A 31 year old, intelligent person with a computer, wifi and a roof over her head can make money. In fact, it's far easier to make money from home today than it was 15 years ago. When I was Art's age, work from home was practically nonexistant. Pretty much everyone got dressed and went to work, if they wanted to. make money. There were far few options. It's sad she doesn't see her many options.

I'm not even sure why she'd need to work from home. A part time desk job might be just the thing. It can be good to get out of the house, particularly if it's just a small room.

I honestly don't see how they are surviving, with just a few hundred dollars a month from Patreon. Most people would be frantic with worry with an income like that.

[JesusCampSongs]

2 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

 What is difficult is that 60% or so of people who believe they are disabled do not fit the definition acccording to SSA regulations.  You fill out a form,  your doctor(s) submit medical evidence, and a decision is made.  Doctors generally are not trained in disability standards so they aren't a patient's best advocate.  There are several volumes of standards and the examiner lines up the medical records against the standard for the disorder and it's a yes or no as to meeting them.  For instance with heart failure one needs a certain ejecction fraction or worse being on or having tried certain medications.  It's really quite simple for certain conditions.  The problem with chronic pain is that it is not a separate recognizable condition.  You need a verifiable cause and an inability to perform any substantial gainful activity for a period of time or the rest of your life.  If someone is a surgeon say but could handle being a pathologist they will be denied..  Either of this couple would have to show an identifiable medical condition that would prevent them from doing any job that they are currently eligible for or could be educcated or trained to do in a reasonable time. 

As a therapist, I’ve worked with a few of my clients to get disability. It’s incredibly difficult to qualify for disability if your only issue is mental health concerns. I think a lot of people don’t understand the difference between “impaired” and “disabled,” in that you can have a condition that makes your life really difficult without fully disabling you. I’ve had numerous clients over the years explore trying to get disability for their mental health concerns, but the vast majority decided against it once they learned how little money they’d get and what their standard of living would likely be if they got it, especially in light of how unlikely they were to qualify for it. I always try to be empathetic and kind about telling people that they won’t qualify because I don’t want them to feel invalidated or shamed, but sometimes they need a dose of perspective and a reality check. 

From what I’ve learned from navigating this process with my clients, in order to get disability for mental health issues, you have to prove that you 1) have a sufficiently disabling diagnosis, 2) have sought treatment for said diagnosis, and 3) were compliant with said treatment AND that the treatment didn’t work and you’re so symptomatic that you cannot maintain employment. My clients who have successfully gotten disability had severe, childhood-onset mental health concerns, a long history of treatment including multiple hospitalizations and stints in high-level services that were unsuccessful, and innumerable failed medication trials. They had also all tried to go to school and work, but weren’t able to. They dropped out repeatedly, lost jobs, etc. which ultimately worked in their favor because it showed they were making an effort.

I don’t see a lot of that happening with the twitter crowd.

[Coconut Flan]

2 minutes ago, JesusCampSongs said:

As a therapist, I’ve worked with a few of my clients to get disability. It’s incredibly difficult to qualify for disability if your only issue is mental health concerns. I think a lot of people don’t understand the difference between “impaired” and “disabled,” in that you can have a condition that makes your life really difficult without fully disabling you. I’ve had numerous clients over the years explore trying to get disability for their mental health concerns, but the vast majority decided against it once they learned how little money they’d get and what their standard of living would likely be if they got it, especially in light of how unlikely they were to qualify for it. I always try to be empathetic and kind about telling people that they won’t qualify because I don’t want them to feel invalidated or shamed, but sometimes they need a dose of perspective and a reality check. 

From what I’ve learned from navigating this process with my clients, in order to get disability for mental health issues, you have to prove that you 1) have a sufficiently disabling diagnosis, 2) have sought treatment for said diagnosis, and 3) were compliant with said treatment AND that the treatment didn’t work and you’re so symptomatic that you cannot maintain employment. My clients who have successfully gotten disability had severe, childhood-onset mental health concerns, a long history of treatment including multiple hospitalizations and stints in high-level services that were unsuccessful, and innumerable failed medication trials. They had also all tried to go to school and work, but weren’t able to. They dropped out repeatedly, lost jobs, etc. which ultimately worked in their favor because it showed they were making an effort.

I don’t see a lot of that happening with the twitter crowd.

Exactly.  That's how it works and how it's supposed to work.  I think the agency doesn't do enough or even any PR work managing expectations and it falls to workers on the phone and in offices to try to explain that to people.  Saying the difference between impaired and fully disabled is a good way to distinguish it.  And you're right for most people who apply it isn't worth it.  There's too little money and it's truly a last resort safety net not support for life.  It can be frustrating but it's deliberately set to weed out the Artemis type people (the ex-fundie twitter crowd).