Artemis (Cynthia Jeub) 2: Still Grifting

[Maggie Mae]

49 minutes ago, Jasmar said:

Oh jeez, I didn’t know that. I use DD much more often than I’d prefer because of a toxic combination of chronic pain, exhaustion, depression, and crippling social anxiety. But I can see I need to cut back. That’s a crappy system. I wish there were a better solution.

I like to use Door Dash to get ideas, then try to order from the restaurant directly. Some still use Door Dash, but it's powered through their online webstore and cheaper. Some have their own drivers still and they don't have the surcharge for DD. And I know in my area, the best restaurants aren't even on Door Dash. But I'm kind of bougie and ridiculous. I'd rather pick up myself if I can. (Sometimes I just can't.) 

Even in my top five highest in the nation COL area, a can of Campbell's soup is $1.29 and takes no effort to heat up. There are options beyond $60 for two people for one meal, which I think is absurd for a weekday meal. I can and have spent more but for weekends/special occasions. 

I've paid for quality food, and been treated to some $$$$ meals, but I'm also not asking people to buy me a new cat tree and pay my rent. IDK. I think there are thousands of recipes out there that take less than 20 minutes and are very inexpensive. Is it high quality? Not always but sometimes it's good enough - vegetable, protein, starch. Rice, chicken, veggie. Healthy and easy, most prep is just waiting. 

7 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I have zero sympathy. Zero. It has been ten years and they have done nothing too help themselves except grift.  $60 for a meal?  I could have taken that $60 to Aldi and bought them enough groceries to eat nutritious meals for at least a week!  

I get your point but there isn't an Aldi in Seattle or even Washington. I don't think there's one in Oregon either. Or Idaho or Montana. California, of course. I've never even been in one. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

10 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

. 

I get your point but there isn't an Aldi in Seattle or even Washington. I don't think there's one in Oregon either. Or Idaho or Montana. California, of course. I've never even been in one. 

Okay, but surely there is a Walmart?  

[Maggie Mae]

Just now, Queen Of Hearts said:

Okay, but surely there is a Walmart?  

I don't think Walmart exists in Seattle. Source: asked someone who used to live in Seattle. Then google. 

Most people in my area shop at Costco or Fred Meyers. She could easily Instacart food in bulk from Costco, I do it for work all the time, we have the busiest Costco in the nation and I'm not waiting in that line or dealing with that parking lot. 

I've been in a Walmart like twice in my life. One time for work and it was terrifying. I'm a big baby, but the check out attendant was mean and acting like I was a criminal for trying to buy a gift card at self check out. And the parking lot was gross and icy, they didn't do snow removal or put down gravel, people were speeding around and slipping on ice. I hate shopping in general though, and especially at those giant box stores like Fred Meyer or Walmart. Too much stuff, too many choices. Makes me overwhelmed and uncomfortable. 

 

 

[Mama Mia]

2 hours ago, Jasmar said:

Oh jeez, I didn’t know that. I use DD much more often than I’d prefer because of a toxic combination of chronic pain, exhaustion, depression, and crippling social anxiety. But I can see I need to cut back. That’s a crappy system. I wish there were a better solution.

I do too. Mostly because of mobility issues. It is soooo pricey though. I do have several friends and family who drive for them or Uber / Instacart etc as side gigs to make ends meet,  and mostly have good things to say about that system. 

[treehugger]

I confess to using Uber Eats at least once or twice a week, usually when we have friends over for board games and I don't feel like cooking, or when we are running late with activities on a school night and I just need to have something quick to feed the kids when we get home.  I use Instacart all the time, because I hate shopping and find grocery stores overwhelming.  I know I save more using Instacart than I would going into the store because I am a distracted shopper and it is so much easier to stick to a list online.  

If I didn't have to cook for a family every day, I think I'd almost never cook.  It is so easy to get premade salads at the grocery store and fruit and crackers and hummus and tuna salad and cereal and eggs are all so quick and easy, and much cheaper than ordering in meals.  

Edited September 20, 2023 by treehugger

[formerhsfundie]

Rent day is coming! We are all thinking it. 

[Coconut Flan]

1 hour ago, Maggie Mae said:

I get your point but there isn't an Aldi in Seattle or even Washington. I don't think there's one in Oregon either. Or Idaho or Montana. California, of course. I've never even been in one. 

California has Aldi.  We also have Bargain Grocery, Smart & Final, Walmart, Dollar Tree, and Food for Less.   

Edited September 20, 2023 by Coconut Flan

[Maggie Mae]

10 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

California has Aldi.  We also have Bargain Grocery, Smart & Final, Walmart, Dollar Tree, and Food for Less.   

Oh, I realize now how terrible my writing is. Yeah, California has everything. That's what I meant to convey. 

Everyone around here is worried because of the Albertson's/Kroger corporate merger. It would leave my city with a choice between the Walmarts which don't really serve my area, or the kroger/Albertson's. Right now we have Safeway or Carrs-Safeway, Fred Meyer, Walmart, and a handful of independent Asian grocery stores. Prices have already doubled since 2020 and produce is limited. 

I don't know the last time I've spent less than $100 on groceries and I never buy chips, frozen meals, snacks, etc. I see those posts about food costs and everyone is like "ditch the chips" but in my area that kind of thing is the same price as outside. Where as tomatoes are like $6 in winter and really sad. 

[marmalade]

All the Aldis in CA are South of Fresno. NoCal does have Grocery Outlet. I'm sure Seattle has some discount shopping. 

[Mama Mia]

3 hours ago, marmalade said:

All the Aldis in CA are South of Fresno. NoCal does have Grocery Outlet. I'm sure Seattle has some discount shopping. 

I’m sure they do. But if you don’t drive and have physical health problems, getting to those discount places and hauling enough groceries back to make it worth it can be difficult to impossible. I’m not saying to give them money, they seem like incredibly ridiculously entitled people, but as someone who used to be able to just get in my car - or even take a bus - to stock up on whatever is on sale at whatever discount place - I was pretty shocked at just how expensive being disabled can be!  Just because sometimes you literally can’t get to the places you need to go to get things cheap and need to pay higher corner store type prices, or delivery charges. 

But the absolutely constant demands they make for extras would be  special treat to anyone else is wild. 
 

 

[FiveAcres]

11 hours ago, Jasmar said:

Oh jeez, I didn’t know that. I use DD much more often than I’d prefer because of a toxic combination of chronic pain, exhaustion, depression, and crippling social anxiety. But I can see I need to cut back. That’s a crappy system. I wish there were a better solution.

Damn. My criticism of Door Dash was not meant to be weaponized against people who need to use services like Door Dash because they NEED to use services like Door Dash. My partner and I are both retired and very privileged: we live in a nice house with two cars, have sufficient finances to fill the gas tanks, and are able to drive to a good Chinese restaurant nearby that does great takeout. (We telephone them so that the website doesn't take a cut of the money we spend there. We also tip them even though it is carryout.)

I am also very fortunate that my partner likes to cook. He doesn't like to plan meals, but I take one for the team and do that part. I  also do the food shopping. We are pretty organized about it now, but it took us decades to get here. It wasn't until the start of the pandemic that I put my systems analyst skills to the task of figuring out how to get food without excessive exposure to other people. I am an early riser, so I can be in and out of the grocery store by 7:00 am.

We live in a crappy system with more perverse incentives than one can number. We do most of our non-food shopping from Amazon, because it is so convenient, and they have excellent security so I don't mind them having our credit card information. I occasionally shop at Walmart because I can find what I need quickly and there is one two miles from our house. I dislike lots of stuff about both Amazon and Walmart, but I use them anyway. And Rufus forbid needing anything from a hardware store: they are all owned by evil people. Home Depot is the closest choice for us.

I refuse to shop at Hobby Lobby, however. That would be harder if we didn't have a Michael's and Jo-Ann's nearby.

 

 

[LilMissMetaphor]

22 hours ago, Foursquare said:

I agree with those who have mentioned the simple options when you don't feel like cooking--canned soup or stew, frozen dinners, even cereal.  One thing that puzzles me is Ryann's seeming complete lack of participation in this part of their life.  I know she has serious health problems and uses a wheelchair sometimes, but is she so disabled that she can't get a simple meal on the table when Art doesn't feel up to it?

I suspect Ryann is another partner like Josiah, happy to completely mooch off whatever Art can scrounge together and take even less responsibility for daily living.  Art is not well enough to attract mature, capable partners who make the best of their lot in life.

[Howl]

Here in Texas, we're near a food jungle (as opposed to a food desert).  TWO Whole Foods,  Sprouts, Trader Joe's, 3 HEBs (our giant Texas grocery chain), Costco, and a vitamin/grocery store -- all within 3 miles.  Trader Joe's is my go-to.  It's small, compact.  Good produce and I'm in and out within 10 to 15 minutes including checkout.  I LOVE TJs! 

On the other side of my city, tens of thousands of people live in a food desert.  That will change as gentrification continues in that area. 

 

[Giraffe]

https://journalistsresource.org/education/aces-toxic-stress-health-research/

A lot if the children from families we snark on are at potential for dealing with lifelong consequences of their parent’s religious abuse. It’s why I’m impressed how far Jill Duggar has come.
 

I feel for Artemis. We’d all agree Art’s parents are awful and Artemis experienced things as a child no one should ever experience. My frustration with stuff like “get us door dash!” is not that they don’t need to eat. Of course they do. But when you’re living on hand outs it’s not the time to get a $7 breakfast for $20*. 

Sadly Art and their significant other seem to be in an unending state of swinging to the opposite extreme. Art experienced such neglect, abuse, and forced self-sacrifice that now as an adult Art doesn’t understand living with healthy compromises. No, you don’t need to live on ramen everyday, but when you’re requesting food, it feels insulting to those who may consider donating to request things like a $7 breakfast for $20.

 

*I didn’t bring lunch one day during a shift where I wouldn’t have a break for 8 hours. I ordered $7 of food and because of all the added fees that $7 breakfast came to $19 and change! 

[Maggie Mae]

I think the other part of the frustration co.es from the lack of gratitude and/or support for others. Their Twitter (X) is overwhelmingly "asks." In the last month or so there was one "thank you everyone for your support" after they paid rent. 

I went through it. Since August 30, there were 16 tweets asking for money or items for themselves. There were 67 retweets, some which were asking for things for other people but I didn't categorize them. There were two promotional type tweets, directing people to their substack or blog. Twelve pieces of original content, six which were positive or neutral, six which I marked as angry or negative. And one thank you. 

I think they might be depressed and in need of something other than an echo chamber on the internet.  

 

[PopRox]

Ironically, after I posted about DoorDash yesterday, my husband asks if we could DoorDash Chinese! It was about $40 and change but there's at least 3 meals worth of food there. Still, not an everyday thing and definitely not something to ask others for.

I live in a semi-rural area, and it's at least 15 minutes to the nearest grocery store, but 5 minutes to a Dollar General (I swear there are 3 within a 3 mile radius). I stock up there on staples and canned goods, and one of them has some produce. Still, instacart-- *especially* if you have health or transportation woes-- has been invaluable. Do they have that in their area? 

Also, even those of us with health issues still have our good days. On a good day, I can batch cook a big pot of soup or chili (using inexpensive ingredients) and freeze it for a "bad day."

I really hope I don't sound like I'm dragging this person. We had major financial problems a few years back, and had to borrow money a few times just to make the bills (we paid it all back). It *sucked,* but we survived it and I learned a lot about how to get by with very little. It isn't fun but it's doable, especially for a couple with no children. 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by PopRox

[Jackie3]

7 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Art experienced such neglect, abuse, and forced self-sacrifice that now as an adult Art doesn’t understand living with healthy compromises.

She did. But as she herself admits, there were good things in her childhood too. Her parents held a lot of parties, and they lived on a property with lots of land. It's clear there was abuse and neglect, but there were good things as well (again, these are her words). There are kids who didn't have those good things, and way more of the bad. My point is, it's possible to rise up from a bad beginning.

Art's requests are unreasonable, but I do think it's due to her parents' neglect.  She never was able to develop beyond a teenage mindset.  A 14-year old might reject the idea of leftovers for dinner, and ask for doordash. A  young teen would reject reasonable explanations involving long-term planning ("we need to save money for our summer vacation"). She'd reject reasonable alternatives (making her own dinner, earning money to buy it herself). She just wants doordash because it tastes the best, but she doesn't want to pay for it herself. Most of us grow beyond this phase, and hopefully Art will too.

[marmalade]

What disabilities does Art have? I haven't followed them for many years and don't know what they currently suffer from, aside from PTSD. 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, marmalade said:

What disabilities does Art have? I haven't followed them for many years and don't know what they currently suffer from, aside from PTSD. 

She says she has chronic pain, but it's not clear why. I dont' think she has a diagnosis. 

[Jigsaw3]

If I remember correctly, they have chronic pain due to having to do too much hard physical work too young -- childcare, housework, lifting and carrying for their parents. I can believe it, even if there's no official diagnosis.

That said, they do need to figure out a long term strategy. Get a diagnosis for the chronic pain and get a treatment plan. Investigate social services and the supports open to them. If they worked really hard to get a GED, look at options for more education. Look into temp jobs and office jobs.

For example, a business admin diploma (one year!) from a 2 year college that helps them get an office job, receptionist, admin assistant; some social service programs might help with free/reduced tuition. That can then form the basis of a 2 year associates degree that gets them a promotion.  Then maybe that could, down the road, allow them to get an English BA: if they want to write, that would be a great experience for them - and get them more job opportunities.

And speaking of writing, since they've said they want to write: most writers do not make a living off writing. Most writers have a day job. And the ones that DO make a living treat it as a full-time, 40-60-80 hours a week JOB. Journalists pitch and write and research and pitch again. Novelists write and market and edit and write and submit and edit. Freelancers apply for contracts, write, bill, write, chase bills, market themselves. Making money from writing is harder than finding a boring office job.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jigsaw3

[Coconut Flan]

Chronic pain is not going to get them disability by itself.  It has to be an identifiable and recognized condition and one that prevents them from doing almost any work.  They need a medical condition not my parents made me work too much.  Have they considered how much work and effort student atheletes put in vs their childcare and housework? I expect high school wrestlers and football players have done as much or more work just in a different form. 

 I've lived with chronic pain since my late teens. I have a diagnosed potentially fatal condition. Yet I learned to manage it.  I went to college and made sure I was educated for a career I could handle.  It was obvious early on I wasn't going to be a dentist or a surgeon for instance.  My mother's commentary was you need to be prepared to take care of yourself because you can't count on anyone else to be around to do it for you.  I do know people who have what I have and as one of my doctors says use it as an excuse to retire to the rocking chair rather than live life.  

They need to accept that not everyone is a Stephen King and they need to do what they need to do rather than what they want to do.  Reality is a hard taskmaster.  

[Jackie3]

11 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Have they considered how much work and effort student atheletes put in vs their childcare and housework?

I was thinking the same thing. In my area, children train constantly for their sport, starting at a young age. 

11 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

They need to accept that not everyone is a Stephen King and they need to do what they need to do rather than what they want to do.  Reality is a hard taskmaster.  

Yes, I once knew an author who was quite established. She could easily get a book contract if she wanted one, but she wasn't famous. I was helping her with a business matter and saw her tax returns. I was astonished at how little she made from her writing. 

Most of us have some artistic interest that we'd love to do all day. Unfortunately, it's usually not possible, even if you are talented. It takes luck, talent and often a level of privilege to be successful in an artistic field.

[Hane]

I’ve been to book talks with several successful novelists, and all of them were very frank about the hours they put in daily, about their work process, and the vagaries of the business interactions that got them where they are. Making a living as a writer is not for the faint hearted.

(By contrast, back before TV got popular, Kurt Vonnegut made quite a comfortable living writing short stories for magazines. Then he had to switch over to novel writing, and was successful there, too—but it’s not the ‘50s/‘60s anymore. The economy and the markets have changed drastically.)

Edited September 21, 2023 by Hane

[Maggie Mae]

15 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Have they considered how much work and effort student atheletes put in vs their childcare and housework? I expect high school wrestlers and football players have done as much or more work just in a different form. 

Thank you for this.  So many people my age spent their youth doing sports, some more extreme and high contact that others. I've had many a conversation about how important it is for me (and others) to keep moving, despite the wear and tear on our aging bodies, go to PT, and do the exercises. Otherwise it just gets worse. 

But then I realize that they might not actually know. One of the things that made me the most irritated at these giant families was the lack of sports/activities. My school/area might have been an oddity, but I don't think it's that weird for parents to spend their evenings figuring out how to get Kid 1 to soccer, kid 2 to gymnastics, and kid 3 to karate. Or whatever. But once you have a 16, that stuff isn't even affordable financially, much less the time to get the ones who can't drive to their lessons/practice and everything else that needs to be done in a household. Team sports weren't always fun and games but they are a very valuable tool for children and teens who want to participate. And I think all kids should be able to explore activities that they find enjoyable. 

15 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

They need to accept that not everyone is a Stephen King and they need to do what they need to do rather than what they want to do.  Reality is a hard taskmaster.  

It really is. I mean, when I was 16 I wanted to be a lobbyist for environmental issues. But lobbying is really about networking and most lobbying is done by people who are already in that network, even at the state level. Instead I ended up working for a company that did all sorts of things I morally oppose. And most lobbyists have so many clients across industries, it's not really a job for people who are passionate about things like on the West Wing, it's more about repeating talking points and, again, making friends and making deals. Now I just pay a lobbyist to repeat my talking points in a way that actually makes sense. 

[formerhsfundie]

Raising your child hardcore fundie in the modern age is like living poor in the 1920s or Great Depression. It involves a lot of work, and a lot of deprivation of one thing or another and leaves the child poorly prepared for modern life. One of my biggest sore points is that I did so much hard labor building someone else's (my parent's) dream. That kind of work had little pay off at the time, none for the future, and kept me from learning age appropriate skills/experiences. It was a net loss, in my view. 

By contrast, pursuing my interest in sports and working for my own goals, towards my own future, helping a team of kids my age defeat an opposing team-- totally different. It teaches skills and work/reward benefits. They both involve physical exertion and exhaustion, but the emotional/psychological difference is opposite.

Fortunately for me I had some early childhood experiences of this that I never forgot, so I knew how motivating it was to work towards my own goals through sports.

But, my point is that although they both take hard work and create muscle memory, one builds the child up, the other teaches learned helplessness and dependence on community/others and leads to sadness and depression as an adult.