Artemis (Cynthia Jeub) 2: Still Grifting

[atlantagirl30084]

2 minutes ago, treehugger said:

The thing is, even if all that brand name stuff is supposedly about ethics, it doesn’t work that way. Tylenol is not more ethical than the no name brand stuff. Their factories are not certified fair trade, there is no proof that their employees are better paid. 
I spent literally years researching ethical and fair trade companies, and 90% of it is bullshit and green washing.  It was important to me though, and I still do my best to select the most ethical option. When we were poor, it often meant picking one thing that we needed (clothes, shoes, etc), a month and splurging on that while penny pinching everywhere else. Now that we are better off, it is easier to do. And I can appreciate the struggle. 
But there is also a point where we, as individuals need to stop feeling guilt over something we have no control over. If you can’t afford fair trade or local, handcrafted items, that is something you have no control over, and letting yourself be overcome with guilt over that is not necessary. Be angry and demand better from corporations who exploit for greed instead. Ultimately they are the responsible ones. 
However, I think needing name brand items because of wokeism and ethics may be projecting a bit onto Art. I went over their Amazon wish list. Nothing on there makes me think consumer ethics and fair trade has much sway over their shopping choices. 

I don’t think Art is that into the free-tradeness of the bamboo stuff either. They are into name-brand and Door Dash because they seem kind of lazy (I have no idea what taking care of Ryann involves but they seem to spend a lot of time at home) and entitled.  

[Jackie3]

8 hours ago, Bassett Lady said:

I have a soft heart and I would happily help Art if steps were being taken to become self sufficient.

I know!! Me too!!

7 hours ago, QuittersTry said:

So a good therapist would say...try the generic brand and be super mindful 1 time a day for 5 minutes. Do you feel pain relief? Do you feel a negative side effect? Did you, personally, cause an economic crisis in the retail industry? Did you, personally, cause inhumane work conditions in pill factories? Did you, personally, contribute to a system of inequitable access to health care? After ruminating for 5 mins, you have to be done. Any time you an intrusive thought similar in topic, stop immediately and tell your self to worry about it during tomorrow's 5 mins.

For real, it works!

Such good advice! A good therapist would also educate their client about scrupulosity, which is a type of OCD. It's very common among people who come from fundamentalist backgrounds. It involves ruminating about the "right" choice, worrying you've made the wrong moral choice, trying so hard to do the right thing that it becomes dysfunctional and unhealthy.  A good example is worrying that you'll go to hell because you didn't put something in the recyling.

It hope Art doesn't suffer from scrupulosity (there are good treatments for it, though). However, I'm not sure that's behind this issue.  I didn't see any evidence that the "fancy" brand was morally superior to regular Tylenol.

A word about acetaminophen.  It is a chemical compound. If a product has acetaminophen, it must contain the same chemicals in the same formula or it can't be called acetaminophen. So it's fine to buy the cheaper brand.  Of course, a product may also contain other things, like carnauba wax, but that won't affect the level of pain relief. (I learned this from a pharmacist friend, it is not my area of expertise)

[Coconut Flan]

I have news for Art, severe pain is not relieved by 325 mg of Tylenol.  If that's all her partner needs for pain, he needs to get up and do something.  Being productive can actually help relieve pain or at least take your mind off it.  I'm not recommending they get a dog, please no, but actually walking the dog might be good for him.  I've lived in constant pain of some level since my late teens.  No doctor has ever prescribed 325 mg of Tylenol for it except for breakthrough pain and then it's one or two extra-strength tablets.  Art needs to quit coddling the partner and look after themself a bit.  

Their stories so seldom make good sense.  Maybe neither one has any common sense or practicality.  

Edited October 8, 2023 by Coconut Flan

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

I have news for Art, severe pain is not relieved by 325 mg of Tylenol.  If that's all her partner needs for pain, he needs to get up and do something.  Being productive can actually help relieve pain or at least take your mind off it.  I'm not recommending they get a dog, please no, but actually walking the dog might be good for him.  I've lived in constant pain of some level since my late teens.  No doctor has ever prescribed 325 mg of Tylenol for it except for breakthrough pain and then it's one or two extra-strength tablets.  Art needs to quit coddling the partner and look after themself a bit.  

Their stories so seldom make good sense.  Maybe neither one has any common sense or practicality.  

Absolutely! In fact, getting out of bed may be the best thing for their pain. Lying in bed for hours can cause it's own pain. Gentle, low-impact exercise may do much more for her than tylenol or motrin. 

I think getting a dog is such an absurd idea that it makes me mad. You don't just take a dog out for "breaks," as they write. You don't take them outside to pee 4x a day and that's it. Dogs need to be walked (or get some form of exercise), ideally every day but at least a few times a week. They need stimulation (like playing with other dogs or some type of activity). Very few dogs are content to lie on a bed all day except for their "breaks" outside. 

If Art needs to take a break while doing the dishes, she is not physically capable of caring for a dog. Plus, someone who can't afford tylenol definitely can't afford a dog. Just the adoption fee at the pound is more than they can afford. 

I've had dogs all my adult life. I'm not one of those people who gets all mushy about them, but I work really hard to provide a good quality of life for mine. That means exercise, good medical care, proper food, love and attention, and a peaceful death at the end.  You don't have to be rich, but you do need some money, and most importantly, you need to be physically able to meet its needs.  It breaks my heart to think of the care a dog would get in that household.

 

[AmazonGrace]

On 10/6/2023 at 4:56 PM, treehugger said:

I was curious so I went and read the post.  I don’t think you misunderstood. Another woman in the comments said she was poor herself and almost never bought name brand items because she couldn’t afford it, and she would help but not on items she wouldn’t buy herself. 
 

And all I could think of was how Art is preying on the poor to subsidize their lifestyle, not unlike the billionaires they claim to despise. 

I am of two minds about htis. On one hand, grifters are annoying, and a lot of them might have a better life if they'd made different choices. To quote Offspring, why don't you get a job.

On the other hand, this thread reminds me of my grandma who used to say that it's not ´stupid to ask but to give in. So I kind of think that if some entitled doofus asks people to give them expensive stuff for free, just because they want expensive stuff for free, and then some other doofus goes out of their way and gives them their hard-earned money, just because they asked,... well, it's a poor choice they didn't have to make. Nobody is forced to contribute to anyone's Patreon so if the poor allow themselves to be preyed on and subsidize someone undeserving, it's on them.

[treehugger]

@AmazonGrace, you are, of course, totally right. No one has to donate. 
 

I really need to figure out why they irritate me so much. It’s a weird response for me, as I have no problems running into a grocery store and getting something for a panhandler on the street corner. Something about them just feels super manipulative and I can’t explain why. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by treehugger

[formerhsfundie]

4 minutes ago, treehugger said:

I really need to figure out why they irritate me so much. It’s a weird response for me, as I have no problems running into a grocery store and getting something for a panhandler on the street corner. Something about them just feels super manipulative and I can’t explain why. 

I agree, why IS it so annoying? I think for myself it is a variety of reasons. I was really looking forward to reading the book. I was happy that one of the kids had "gotten out." I was proud of Art for leaving an abusive relationship. 

That's all over. They are in a worse relationship, not out of the cult, and are never going to write that book.

And them even questioning bringing a dog into that home is a litmus test for how out of touch with reality they both are. They treat social media like a vending machine. Type some words with your latest want, and boom! Money pops into the account. It's enabling them to continue on for now, but how is this sustainable?

And now that I think about it, I'm mad at Ryann for using Art like a workhorse, and Art not seeing that they have skills for which they could get paid.  It's all so unnecessary.

[sableduck]

It’s honestly so ridiculous. I also grew up in a similar family. Did a lot of physical work and childcare young(though in all fairness I think my kids who play travel softball and team gymnastics are doing more physical labor than I ever did). I have a connective tissue disorder that causes a lot of chronic pain.

And I get up and move, because it reduces the pain. And because things have to be done.  And I work 50 hours a week in a physical job because I have bills.

Art didn’t have a horrible education, as evidenced by the quality of writing and thoughtful analysis.  They can work at something, seek higher education, pursue something that isn’t lying in bed with coloring books.

They just don’t want to.

 

[Maggie Mae]

53 minutes ago, formerhsfundie said:

I agree, why IS it so annoying? 

I think it's part of us humans love of success stories. We tend to enjoy reading stories about people overcoming tragedy. Happyish endings are classic and we all wanted the best.

I know that this is the more likely situation of a lot of these fundies we've talked about over the past 20 some years. But most of them aren't so open about their lives. Plus, in this particular situation, Art didn't go to generic Evangelical after getting married, they went the exact opposite. 

But they still aren't happy. 

It's also an indictment on the Jeubs and their ability to parent functional adults. Seems like a lot of them are either working for him or shunned. 

[0 kids n not countin]

Their father taught them well, like father like child. 🙄

If they are not even able to get up to do dishes, how will they enjoy spending the day at the aquarium unless they have or will use wheelchairs at the aquarium. 

[formerhsfundie]

5 minutes ago, 0 kids n not countin said:

Their father taught them well, like father like child. 🙄

If they are not even able to get up to do dishes, how will they enjoy spending the day at the aquarium unless they have or will use wheelchairs at the aquarium. 

 

[Ozlsn]

1 hour ago, formerhsfundie said:

They are in a worse relationship, not out of the cult, and are never going to write that book.

I think this relationship is part of why it feels manipulative. We're not seeing Ryann stepping up in any way here, including asking for money. Maybe they are doing that somewhere else, but what we're seeing is constant requests for what Ryann would like, or "needs". Because we don't see Ryann's voice except through Art I think it feels more manipulative than it might otherwise.

[formerhsfundie]

4 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

I think this relationship is part of why it feels manipulative. We're not seeing Ryann stepping up in any way here, including asking for money. Maybe they are doing that somewhere else, but what we're seeing is constant requests for what Ryann would like, or "needs". Because we don't see Ryann's voice except through Art I think it feels more manipulative than it might otherwise.

Well put. Also, if I found out my partner was asking for money to buy me a $15 beading kit, I'd choke. It's beyond ridiculous. Not to mention those can be found for dollars at a thrift shop. 

[Maggie Mae]

3 minutes ago, formerhsfundie said:

Well put. Also, if I found out my partner was asking for money to buy me a $15 beading kit, I'd choke. It's beyond ridiculous. Not to mention those can be found for dollars at a thrift shop. 

Also the $50 cheesecake. Safeway has one for $20, or you can buy slices. There are two of them, they don't need a $50 full sized cheesecake. Go to a restaurant and order just dessert or buy a slice at a local bakery. 

[waltraute]

8 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Also the $50 cheesecake. Safeway has one for $20, or you can buy slices. There are two of them, they don't need a $50 full sized cheesecake. Go to a restaurant and order just dessert or buy a slice at a local bakery. 

They don't want any old cheesecake, they want a quality cheesecake.

You can buy cake slices at my local Safeway for a few bucks apiece. I don't know if they could be considered quality though.

[Maggie Mae]

15 minutes ago, waltraute said:

They don't want any old cheesecake, they want a quality cheesecake.

You can buy cake slices at my local Safeway for a few bucks apiece. I don't know if they could be considered quality though.

Honestly I love the Safeway cake slices. Granted they doubled in price and aren't worth it anymore, but back when they were 3.49, they were a pretty good deal, and safeway bakery isn't the worst chain bakery. 

[treehugger]

1 hour ago, sableduck said:

Art didn’t have a horrible education, as evidenced by the quality of writing and thoughtful analysis.  They can work at something, seek higher education, pursue something that isn’t lying in bed with coloring books.

They just don’t want to.

 

I think that is part of it.  I live Downtown Montréal, and am surrounded by struggling people, and many our homeless population really can't work.  The person who is ranting on the street corner about the demons telling him the government is tracking his every move because he was such a successful person, that man is never going to be able to hold down a job.  The extreme mental illness that so many homeless struggle with guarantees that.  I don't mind buying that guy a smoke and a sandwich whenever I see him, because he isn't getting that any other way.  

But Art is intelligent.  They really are.  And I think it is just so frustrating for me to watch, because it's literally watching someone ruin their life on purpose.  I don't need a success story for them.  But I hate watching the self-destruction.  And the worst part for me is they are very well placed (incredibly privileged really), in that there are so many people who would happily assist them and help fund an actual attempt at self-improvement.  They have resources most people could only dream of.  And they chose to squander that.  

[Coconut Flan]

5 hours ago, treehugger said:

I really need to figure out why they irritate me so much. It’s a weird response for me, as I have no problems running into a grocery store and getting something for a panhandler on the street corner. Something about them just feels super manipulative and I can’t explain why. 

I know what it is for me:  the entitlement.  Plus I went through it real life with a couple at church.  They were estranged from their families and just didn't really know why or so they said except their parents had issues with them.  I kind of fell for their sob story a bit and I did like them as people .......until.......I went shopping and bought them some of their needs.  But I bought the wrong peanut butter and "we really don't use that brand of detergent" and perhaps1/3 of what I'd bought them off their list they donated to the food bank.. Thankfully it was really only one bag of groceries. I never did give them money thank goodness.  Although later they hit up the church for a deposit so they could move, repairs on their van, etc.  She didn't work because she wanted to be a stay at home wife and mother as her mother was and "the Bible said."  They tried to live on his SSI (he, too, had a terminal diagnosis) and money she made tutoring.  The priest appointed them church secretary and then they bitched it cut his SSI and wasn't enough money.  

I eventually talked to her mother and she said we have x other children to think about and we simply cannot keep giving these college degreed adults money and things and bailing them out.  We paid for her university degree and if she'd put forth the least effort she ccould get her certification as a teacher and support them both, but she changed after meeting and marrying him.  We just don't condone how they're living life and I'd urge you not to let them take advantage of you, too.  

They had pets also and would whine about vet bills.  I know at least three couples at church plus the parents tried to counsel them about realistic goals and how she'd married this guy without a plan of how they were going to support themselves and no one could blame their parents for not continuing to support them and they needed to make reasonable and practical decisions and choices.  The last I heard of them they were trying to fund infertility treatment so they could bring a baby into the mix right after he almost died of pneumonia.  Most people with his condition don't live past 30.

The two situations are too close for me.  I feel like I've seen and heard almost all of it before....

Edited October 9, 2023 by Coconut Flan

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, formerhsfundie said:

 

What happened to being worried their supporters were getting "giving" fatigue?
And really, who cares about rent when you can spend a day at the aquarium?

Being worried about housing is so last month. Try to keep up, everyone!

It's going to be Elon Musk's fault if they can't make rent this November.

[formerhsfundie]

I thought of another reason I'm irked. The idea that they need money to celebrate.

Any reasonable couple would be looking forward to celebrating said birthday IN the new apartment, thanking their lucky stars they have a roof over their heads. A meal of boxed mac and cheese or ramen is romantic if you're together and in love. That's all that matters. Heck, save something nice from the foodbank, and bring it out just for the occasion. There are many ways to celebrate while you are poor and in love that don't involve begging.

No, that will not do! It only matters if it's expensive, and if someone else buys it for them. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by formerhsfundie
Deleted text that magically appeared below mine.

[GreenBeans]

On 10/8/2023 at 10:39 AM, formerhsfundie said:

<PRIVATE INFORMATION REMOVED>

What happened to being worried their supporters were getting "giving" fatigue?
And really, who cares about rent when you can spend a day at the aquarium?

Being worried about housing is so last month. Try to keep up, everyone!

I added it up. That’s 250$. For a “nice” birthday. Is that like Jill’s “nice” Olive Garden?

Edited October 14, 2023 by hoipolloi
Removed private info

[Bassett Lady]

15 minutes ago, GreenBeans said:

added it up. That’s 250$. For a “nice” birthday

I’m trying to remember the last time I spent $250 for an adults birthday. Hmmm, never. 
 

Mr. Basset got heart-shaped pancakes (with little chocolate chips inside) for his birthday breakfast.

That night I made his favorite meal of green-chili Alfredo sauce on linguine with a green salad and a German chocolate cake for dessert. There was a card and foot rub, to round out the festivities. 
 

I know that in movies there are often elaborate parties and extravagant gifts for adult birthdays, but does anyone do that in real life? 
 

For our kids, we throw birthday parties and buy more gifts, but kids are always growing and needing new things. It makes sense to get them new clothes and toys when they are little or to give them bigger ticket items, like bicycles or computers, as they get older. 

Once they are in college we just send them a card with a $100 bill tucked inside. 
 

If Art had gainful employment, and all the needs were being met, I would still find it a bit odd for an adult to take a trip to the aquarium and get a beading kit, but to each their own. However, as a person who cannot afford basics like rent, food, and toiletries it seems reckless and dangerously irresponsible. 

[Coconut Flan]

On their supposed income the slice of cheesecake or a cupcake from the local market and an art or craft from the partner looks about in line with practical spending.  

[keepercjr]

1 hour ago, GreenBeans said:

I added it up. That’s 250$. For a “nice” birthday. Is that like Jill’s “nice” Olive Garden?

My husband makes a good salary and I am self employed part time and get disability.  We are comfortable and yet I would never spend $250 for his birthday unless it was on a specific gift that he wanted and even then I would think twice.  I try to get him a little something but don't always.  And I might make a favorite dinner for the family and a cake he likes from costco.

 I am one who would love to go to the aquarium and so would my husband.  IF we did that for a birthday maybe we would go out to lunch and have dinner at home.  With just the 2 of us it wouldn't even be $100 and if we included the kids maybe $200 for the day.  And that is for 5 of us.

All this begging makes me wonder if they have a true concept of money and what "normal" (employed? Not living in desperate poverty?) make?  That even if we live comfortably we still budget and try to save whenever possible. 

I agree with the previous posters who feel that Aramis (formerly Ryann - seems he changed his name) seems to take advantage of Artemis.  If Artemis is truly as disabled and they say they are, and they are caretaking for Aramis, this is a recipe for burnout.  I get that we are only hearing 1 narrative, but we don't hear how Aramis contributes to the household.

[Jackie3]

I revised the birthday list into something more reasonable (and just as fun imo)

• Beading kit ($15)
• Order the book trilogy through interlibrary loan, and give it to Aramis on his birthday ($0)
• Go to the university and stroll around campus in the lovely fall sunshine ($0, use scooters if necessary). If it rains, take in a free talk or musical performance on campus, or peruse the bookstore ($0)
• See Pike Place, Space Needle and waterfront ($0)
• Subway tickets to travel around Seattle for the day ($13.50 for three people)
• Cook a cheesecake with Aramis' sister in the apartment ($20 for ingredients)

Total $48.50

I hope Artemis is not being taken advantage of. It seems strange Aramis can visit the aquarium and go to the doctors, but cannot change kitty litter or wash a dish.

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Jackie3