Dillards 93: Counting the Cost - Indeed

[QuiverFullofBooks]

24 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

I was glad she didn’t go into any more detail about Josh’s abuse… 1) I don’t need specifics…it feels voyeuristic and 2) it was obviously traumatic for her at the time, she thought it was dealt with never to be brought up again, and was re-traumatized everytime it came out in the press again. If you want specifics on Josh there’s already plenty of places to find it online. I’m glad Jill chose for herself this time what and how much to share.

Did anyone else catch in chapter 6 (page 152 on the kindle) when JB calls all the kids together to let them know about the $80,000 that “Josh has had some more struggles again…”

This was in fall 2016, so over a year after the Ashley Madison scandal broke and still a few years from the car lot being raided in fall 2019. JB didn’t elaborate on it, and Jill didn’t seem to have any more details. It made me wonder what else went on that they managed to hide from the public because I don’t remember any extra scandal in 2016, and how Jill (and most of the kids), where given very little information and seldom knew what was really going on in the family.

Yes, that’s interesting. Whatever it was, it cost JB some money (maybe that’s where the $80K figure came from) and he really wanted Josh to sign the NDA. Sounds like Jim Bob’s motivations were a combination of wanting NDAs from everyone, wanting to get the Dillards off his back, wanting to get everyone locked into filming, and maybe realizing that it was obscenely unfair to give Josh money, but not the 18 other kids. 

[Mama Mia]

8 hours ago, Natalie22 said:

It's also fucking illegal. You cannot charge your minor child for their 'cost of living'. They can't pay rent, etc. 

The numbers and time spans were all over the place too. Many of the dates were for charges after her marriage. Some looked like since she was 18, a couple from younger. Very weird. In addition to being ridiculously controlling and emotionally and financially abusive, I kind of wonder if he has some sort of more serious mental health issues going on.  

[Mama Mia]

9 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

Probably because she does not consider that problematic. They are still conservative in their views (would be considered fundamentalist in many countries other than the US), and I’d be surprised if they did not follow the “spare the rod, spoil the child” concept and beat their children.

Even the Arkansas public schools hit kids as punishment - thousands of times a year, likely even more so when Jill was growing up. And super compliant kids like Jill probably got the least punishment in the family. The times the Duggars went beyond the culturally acceptable parameters seem to be with the infamous blanket training which was the younger twins, when there were a million demanding little ones and older kids could help, but weren’t fully capable tween slave age — and they seem to have toned that down by the time they got the regular series - just judging in how how robotically obedient they all were in the first specials compared to the rambunctious little kids in the series. I’m by no means saying they were right, just that for their area and circle, they weren’t radically off the norm. 

[viii]

I know this word is thrown around a lot, but I genuinely believe Jim Bob is a narcissist. 

Quote

 

Use the acronym “SPECIAL ME” to remember the nine signs of NPD. 

SPECIAL ME 

Sense of self-importance

Preoccupation with power, beauty, or success 

Entitled

Can only be around people who are important or special

Interpersonally exploitative for their own gain

Arrogant

Lack empathy

Must be admired

Envious of others or believe that others are envious of them

 

I mean... it sounds like Jim Bob to a T. 

[snickerz]

I wonder what Anna had to sign for JB to support her & her kids... No wonder she's not leaving, she probably can't.

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, snickerz said:

I wonder what Anna had to sign for JB to support her & her kids... No wonder she's not leaving, she probably can't.

At least not without significant legal repercussions (in addition to the obvious social ones). I’m sure there’s a lawyer somewhere who could take her as a client and get her out of the contracts.  But Jill “at least” had a pissed off husband to support her (& push her) during the process. No way will Anna do it. 
 

Sure would be ironic though if Anna Duggar wanting out of JB’s iron grasp brings down JB’s empire. 

[slp]

Anna is likely even more firmly entrenched in the IBLP cult and her dad seems more heavy handed than JB ever was. As a woman who was left on her own with seven kids and no more than a high school diploma myself it’s the most terrifying thing I’ve ever gone through. (Ex abandoned us)I got out of the abusive marriage only to endure another co trolling relationship.  I had to endure a lot of control from my evangelical/fundie life dad and stepmom ( who think they are progressive bc they wear pants and think it’s cool for women to have a job) bc they supported my kids and I while I went to nursing school so I could support the kids myself. Then when I got a spine and started standing up to them they turned on me viciously. And they had the money so I lost.  I’m slowly rebuilding my life. 
Anna has to be terrified at the thought of leaving with literally nothing. And then on top of that to deal w the religious guilt and fear.  

[SongRed7]

My copy of the book comes today. I've been taking it all in and it's shocking. 

I guess what surprises me the most is Joy and Austin. Sure sounds like they signed the agreement as well. But I can't imagine it sits well with Austin. Don't get me wrong, I don't like his personality and he treats Joy with condescension on the videos she posts.

But in a way, that might make sense. For his dud of a personality, he does seem hardworking and more independent, has  his own company.  Purely speculation, but perhaps that is why he comes off "flat" or "hostile"  almost on the videos.  They signed a pact with the devil so they have to film (If it's true that JB gets the money from their social accounts). It's almost as if he's saying, "I don't like doing this, but I will because I have to. But I'm certainly not going to put on a "happy" show.

On the flip side, Joy always seems to have pleading eyes to him in the videos  "honey, please just film this with me" 

I mean, during Josh's trial he seemed genuinely pissed off at Josh and JB and supposedly he had a blow out fight with Anna later on.   I know I'm probably reading into things, but more than any of them I feel like you can read regret/fear/disgust on Austin and Joy's faces. 

 

[Xan]

5 hours ago, Antimony said:

I genuinely think he just made up whatever number and years combinations got close to whatever he told the IRS her "salary" was and chose those items to be as emotionally cutting as possible. Food, shelter, utilities, and gifts all itemized. It's like engineered to be a gut punch. 

I think this is exactly what he did.  He was trying to justify not paying her the amount he reported to the IRS.    He'd have dug even further back if need be to get those numbers to come out right.

Mostly what he appeared to be interested in were the NDAs.  He understood that Derick was already talking about the family in public and he needed to shut that down to keep his squeaky clean image and to make sure that lovely money-making television program didn't disappear.  The shows that I saw always had more of the kids and less of Jim Bob so he wasn't losing that much privacy.  And, in front of the cameras, he could preach and pass judgment on the non-fundies all he wanted.  It was a perfect venue for him.  

If I was Jessa or Joy, I'd have been furious that Josh got more of the money.  He was the abuser and caused the trouble.  Why should he get rewarded?  Do the ones who signed still have family corporation credit cards?  That $80,000 isn't going to buy their silence forever.  Although, I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Bob sued some of his own children.

I'm curious as to what he'll do now to try to rehabilitate his image.  Whatever it is, it won't work.

[ADoyle90815]

I just finished the book, and I can understand why she didn't go into detail about the abuse from her brother or the blanket training, as it would have been traumatic for her as it certainly was when the abuser was in the room during that interview. Also, JB is just as abusive and controlling, and her telling him that he treats her "worse than her pedophile brother" was great as she was standing up for herself. I can imagine that Anna is even more entrenched in the cult, mostly through fear and the fact that she just has a high school diploma and several children to raise. 

[sassy41]

Just finished it on Audible (I actually haven't read much this year, so have extra credits I need to use anyway, lol.)   My main worry was that it would be preachy, and she brings God into it a lot, but not in a really annoying way if that makes sense.  It also struck me how she does go to her husband for his opinions (which, they are married, that seems sensible) but also does her own thinking as well.  I have no delusions that she is somehow a feminist or anything, but still, it was good to see. JB  is even worse than we could have imagined.  Regardless of whether it was after Jill came of age or not, an itemized bill isn't it at all, especially when JB  has been profiting off of the commodification of Jill and Derrick as a couple, and they just wanted what was rightfully theirs.  The writing wasn't the best, but not the worst and no one is reading this for the writing, lol. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by sassy41

[SassyPants]

I consider myself to have a good BS radar which can cause me to be cynical. I always knew that JB was awful. I see right through his ah shucks veneer. That man does not have a genuine bone in his body. In the words of Elaine Benes, fake, fake, fake!

[twoandthrough]

New article out from Vanity Fair. Figured I’d share since it’s a reputable source unlike so many others that share about the Duggars. They got some interesting quotations from the Dillards – 

From Jill – “People always have opinions about my life, and their own version of the story from what they believe my reality was growing up on reality TV,” Jill tells Vanity Fair. “I really felt like I wanted to do this to help other people for the long haul… to hopefully (help them) find their voice and know that they are not alone, that they don’t have to live in isolation and fear and control.”

On another note, from Derick, on JB – “He seemed like a very nice guy,” Derick tells Vanity Fair of his father-in-law. “He seemed like he had a heart for missions and a genuine interest in my work, and I was grateful for that. He didn’t really raise any red flags at the time.”

Now, though, Derick reads Jim Bob’s initial behavior differently. He wonders if the patriarch’s personable nature was a method for detecting how easily Derick could be manipulated and fit into the family’s reality TV empire. “In hindsight, it seems like he’s always scheming,” Derick now says of Jim Bob. (Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar did not return Vanity Fair’s request for comment.)

Jill, on Pest’s actions – “It was definitely pent-up frustration and me being like, ‘Why is my brother being protected and I’m being slaughtered here?’” Jill tells VF. “And of course, they didn’t agree with my brother’s decisions either, but they were going out of their way to facilitate and work things out (for him). So it wasn’t just that I was seeing all of this and (was) jealous. It was just like, ‘You don’t get it. You can’t see it for what it is.’”

Remembering that period of her life still brings her to tears. “It was a very, very traumatic process that I had no control over. And on top of that, being in the spotlight? I would never want my kids to go through that,” says Jill, a mother of three.”

Jill, on a relationship with Anna – “At this point, says Jill, she and Derick “have tried to have a relationship” with Josh’s wife, Anna, and their children. “I love all of my family. But I also recognize, having gone through my own trauma… obviously, everybody’s are completely different. But sometimes you just need space.” Their efforts at outreach have been rebuffed, she says: “They’ve been very clear that now is not the time to try and have a relationship, and that's fine. I respect that. I want to give them space.”

Jill, on contact with her family – “Through therapy (they’re both big fans), Jill and Derick have begun to heal and form healthy boundaries with her family. It hasn’t come easily.

“There’s limited contact with my dad. We’ve had to draw some pretty strict boundaries just for our own health and well-being,” Jill says. “With my mom, [it’s] difficult at times, but I think she’s kind of caught in the middle of everything.”

Jill is less willing to talk about her relationships with her siblings.

“I think for the long haul, that’s better for our relationships,” Jill says. “We have some who are very supportive. Jinger and Jeremy [Vuolo] have been very supportive during Derick and I’s journey. Other siblings have been privately supportive, and then some have not been quite as supportive—and that’s okay. I also see where they are at and I’m like, ‘I was there not very long ago.’ So I can extend grace.”

 

Lin for full article: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/09/jill-duggar-tells-her-side-of-the-story

[JermajestyDuggar]

15 minutes ago, twoandthrough said:

New article out from Vanity Fair. Figured I’d share since it’s a reputable source unlike so many others that share about the Duggars. They got some interesting quotations from the Dillards – 

From Jill – “People always have opinions about my life, and their own version of the story from what they believe my reality was growing up on reality TV,” Jill tells Vanity Fair. “I really felt like I wanted to do this to help other people for the long haul… to hopefully (help them) find their voice and know that they are not alone, that they don’t have to live in isolation and fear and control.”

On another note, from Derick, on JB – “He seemed like a very nice guy,” Derick tells Vanity Fair of his father-in-law. “He seemed like he had a heart for missions and a genuine interest in my work, and I was grateful for that. He didn’t really raise any red flags at the time.”

Now, though, Derick reads Jim Bob’s initial behavior differently. He wonders if the patriarch’s personable nature was a method for detecting how easily Derick could be manipulated and fit into the family’s reality TV empire. “In hindsight, it seems like he’s always scheming,” Derick now says of Jim Bob. (Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar did not return Vanity Fair’s request for comment.)

Jill, on Pest’s actions – “It was definitely pent-up frustration and me being like, ‘Why is my brother being protected and I’m being slaughtered here?’” Jill tells VF. “And of course, they didn’t agree with my brother’s decisions either, but they were going out of their way to facilitate and work things out (for him). So it wasn’t just that I was seeing all of this and (was) jealous. It was just like, ‘You don’t get it. You can’t see it for what it is.’”

Remembering that period of her life still brings her to tears. “It was a very, very traumatic process that I had no control over. And on top of that, being in the spotlight? I would never want my kids to go through that,” says Jill, a mother of three.”

Jill, on a relationship with Anna – “At this point, says Jill, she and Derick “have tried to have a relationship” with Josh’s wife, Anna, and their children. “I love all of my family. But I also recognize, having gone through my own trauma… obviously, everybody’s are completely different. But sometimes you just need space.” Their efforts at outreach have been rebuffed, she says: “They’ve been very clear that now is not the time to try and have a relationship, and that's fine. I respect that. I want to give them space.”

Jill, on contact with her family – “Through therapy (they’re both big fans), Jill and Derick have begun to heal and form healthy boundaries with her family. It hasn’t come easily.

“There’s limited contact with my dad. We’ve had to draw some pretty strict boundaries just for our own health and well-being,” Jill says. “With my mom, [it’s] difficult at times, but I think she’s kind of caught in the middle of everything.”

Jill is less willing to talk about her relationships with her siblings.

“I think for the long haul, that’s better for our relationships,” Jill says. “We have some who are very supportive. Jinger and Jeremy [Vuolo] have been very supportive during Derick and I’s journey. Other siblings have been privately supportive, and then some have not been quite as supportive—and that’s okay. I also see where they are at and I’m like, ‘I was there not very long ago.’ So I can extend grace.”

 

Lin for full article: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/09/jill-duggar-tells-her-side-of-the-story

I wouldn’t be surprised if the not supportive siblings were all brothers. We have to remember their main role model in that family is JB. 

[viii]

I could also see Jessa and Jana not being supportive. I don't think it's the boys alone that would give Jill pushback. 

[gobucks]

14 hours ago, Natalie22 said:

It's also fucking illegal. You cannot charge your minor child for their 'cost of living'. They can't pay rent, etc. 

edited~ I need to go back and reread that list from JB. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by gobucks

[vienna]

I am proud of Jill. What a journey. It is interesting, that the compliant ones like Jill and Jinger are the ones to (start to) break free. A stong personality like Jessa didn't stand a chance. She probably has been broken again and again and I guess, for her to go back to her childhood would be way more hurtful.

Another thing: Jinger mentioned it in an interview now also Jill mentions it in her book: Gothard made (certain) girls take a vowe not to marry until a certain age. With Jana beeing HQ and still not beeing married l, I am now convinced she took the vowe.

[JermajestyDuggar]

17 minutes ago, viii said:

I could also see Jessa and Jana not being supportive. I don't think it's the boys alone that would give Jill pushback. 

I think Jessa and Jill still get together. They haven’t lately. But in the past few years, they’ve gotten together a few times. 

[viii]

3 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think Jessa and Jill still get together. They haven’t lately. But in the past few years, they’ve gotten together a few times. 

Maybe I'm too cynical, but that doesn't mean much to me. We have no idea what JB has told Jessa to do and I wouldn't put it past him to encourage Jessa spend time with Jill to spy on her. That's a tactic that was used a lot in the cult I grew up in. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Say this louder Jill! Because this is very important! Say it so the Bateses can hear!

[SassyPants]

When Jill (or others) speak of protecting Josh, I don’t think JB, and by extension Michelle, were protecting Josh, the person, over their daughters. They were protecting the Duggar name and fame ( and more recently earning potential) over everything else. 

If Jill DUGGAR or Jana DUGGAR had been on trial vs Josh, I think JB’s response would have been the same. 

JB doesn’t care about anyone beyond himself. He cares about controlling others and making money.

The love of money is the root of all evil. Well, JB Duggar is definitely evil.

He will throw anyone under the bus when he feels his back is against the wall and his earning potential is being diminished.

Who the hell is ballsy enough to state in court “I will not allow that’???????

[viii]

10 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Say this louder Jill! Because this is very important! Say it so the Bateses can hear!

THIS!!!!

Sorry that I keep bringing up my childhood, but so much of Jill's life is triggering and reminiscent to my own. My cult "ended" in 2003 because our leader was accused of sexual abuse and embezzlement. The world wide umbrella of my cult collapsed, with majority of the churches disbanding (although a few denied the accusations and remains together). However, in my local community, the "church" just picked up and moved to a new church - driving out the original members of this church until they were completely in power and things resumed back to normal. Nobody woke up and realized the theology they were preaching and teaching was 100% wrong. So while my cult officially ended in 2003, I feel like I didn't get out of the cult until 2017. 

[EmiSue]

41 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

When Jill (or others) speak of protecting Josh, I don’t think JB, and by extension Michelle, were protecting Josh, the person, over their daughters. They were protecting the Duggar name and fame ( and more recently earning potential) over everything else. 

If Jill DUGGAR or Jana DUGGAR had been on trial vs Josh, I think JB’s response would have been the same. 

JB doesn’t care about anyone beyond himself. He cares about controlling others and making money.

The love of money is the root of all evil. Well, JB Duggar is definitely evil.

He will throw anyone under the bus when he feels his back is against the wall and his earning potential is being diminished.

Who the hell is ballsy enough to state in court “I will not allow that’???????

Yes, this, plus being part of a cult that views all sins as equal, including deviant sexual acts. The cult sees Josh's molesting his sisters, looking at adult porn, cheating on Anna, and downloading CSAM as variations of the same thing--activity that has a sexual component outside of a heterosexual marriage. So they can twist all this around and say Josh is still worthy of forgiveness, but the other side of the coin is that anything Jill does against her parents is a sin, same as Josh's offenses, and she should therefore be punished if Josh is being punished for his actions.

[CanadianMamam]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think Jessa and Jill still get together. They haven’t lately. But in the past few years, they’ve gotten together a few times. 

They do. Jessa was the only one to go to Jill’s baby shower for Freddie. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

They do. Jessa was the only one to go to Jill’s baby shower for Freddie. 

Yeah, Jinger is in California, otherwise I think she would have gone. And I think Joy may have been out of town or something. But I don’t know why Jana didn’t go.