Dillards 93: Counting the Cost - Indeed

[Idlewild]

If JB is going to charge Jill for bed and board while she lived there - maybe he ought to consider deducting the fees of the live in nanny she became- she started caring for children before she was a teenager so JB and Michelle could fulfil their pregnancy fetish. 

[April83]

Still slowly working my way through the book. Finding it really interesting. I find it fascinating how insuler they really were. Even compared to how it was presented on TV. The culture of we can't tell others about things because of the show and things getting leaked. Finding reading about how Jill felt when they had stepped away from filming and chosen to protect Samuel is really hard to read. And it's got me thinking about Anna. 

If Jill was finding it so hard and isolating with a non IBLP supportive husband- Anna didn't really stand any chance of being able to leave. The way JB treated Jill is disgusting- it seems all he cared about was protecting the program by controlling everyone. 

I know we all suspected most of this for a long time but actually hearing Jill's reality is scary.

[SassyPants]

29 minutes ago, April83 said:

Still slowly working my way through the book. Finding it really interesting. I find it fascinating how insuler they really were. Even compared to how it was presented on TV. The culture of we can't tell others about things because of the show and things getting leaked. Finding reading about how Jill felt when they had stepped away from filming and chosen to protect Samuel is really hard to read. And it's got me thinking about Anna. 

If Jill was finding it so hard and isolating with a non IBLP supportive husband- Anna didn't really stand any chance of being able to leave. The way JB treated Jill is disgusting- it seems all he cared about was protecting the program by controlling everyone. 

I know we all suspected most of this for a long time but actually hearing Jill's reality is scary.

I agree JB was way worse than I ever could have imagined. JB having Jill sign those papers giving him total control over their lives via the show the day before her wedding- that is so underhanded. And then he wouldn’t provide the signed contract documents beyond the signature page. According to Jill JB NEVER provided the documents. Michelle slipped them in the door after midnight. Did Michelle have a buddy with her when she drove the streets after MN? 

I didn’t believe that I could think less of JB, but after listening to the book, I do. I hope the Dillards make boatloads of money off of this book.

Sadly, this man still has a houseful of younger kids still at home. He is still an influencer over how their lives will progress going forward. 

[Jasmar]

16 hours ago, Xan said:

Once you pull one brick out of that wall, the rest just might tumble.  So, we learn that JB&M have a truly messed up son.  Now we know that Jim Bob loves money and will cheat his own children out of their earnings.  We find out that they didn't build that big house but had a lot of help from TLC.  I think he's afraid we'll discover that the whole thing has been a charade the whole time.  ISB bus:  They've had to punish the kids over and over to get them to be obedient and smile at the cameras.  They didn't leave their reproductive lives up to God.  They timed sex when Michelle was most likely to conceive.  Jim Bob really wanted to be a politician and help the Dominionists take over the country.  Michelle is sick and tired of him grabbing her arm for every picture.  The community doesn't like them.  The children are so poorly educated that Jim Bob has to support most of them or they'd never find jobs.  

The story that I heard earlier about Jim Bob is that he saved up $250,000.00 to run for the Senate.  The whole time he was saving up, the community was leaving boxes of food and bags of clothes at their door because they were worried about the family.  JB was buying shoes for the children at Goodwill and bragging that he only paid $1.00 per pair.  As Jill said, they lived on bean burritos and ramen noodles.  And J Boob had a quarter of a million dollars in the bank because he thought he could be famous.  He was no Christian then and he's no Christian now.

I agree with everything you said except that he’s no Christian. I was only fundie-lite during my Christian years, but I cannot even begin to count the number of men just like him, with a few variations. There were so, so many, across all socioeconomic groups. The higher you go in church leadership, the more likely that one or more of those guys would be a JB, a narcissist, in my experience. Even the rank-and-file husbands tended towards the domineering, even if they were often really good at hiding it (until you knew their wife or kids).

But everything else you said, YES! Yes, yes, yes.

[twoandthrough]

Okay, this interview is a bit awkward and cringe-worthy at times (they do interrupt each other a lot), but you can really see Derick's personality here - quite the jokester with some snarky comments. He really is funny (though not defending those awful beliefs I assume he still holds). They do address how they never did blanket training, were never part of IBLP as a married couple, how they want to teach their sons to think for themselves, more about therapy, family size, a JB-ism, dances around talking about Jana and if Jill thinks her younger siblings will ever leave IBLP (she doesn't answer), a question from a journalist from 2007 that interviewed the family, and more. It was a pretty solid interview, IMO. 

 

No host - they're just answering questions posted on the website. 

 

Here's the link to watch: https://livesigning.com/counting

[SassyPants]

And Jill also presented being excited and a bit nervous for Israel to go to public school. I wonder what changed? I wonder if the boys are back in PS this year? I know last year they had just moved and had a new baby+ Sam would have been one of the youngest kids in class had he started kindergarten in fall of 22.  If it was such a positive experience, I wonder why it ended? 

[JermajestyDuggar]

16 minutes ago, twoandthrough said:

Okay, this interview is a bit awkward and cringe-worthy at times (they do interrupt each other a lot), but you can really see Derick's personality here - quite the jokester with some snarky comments. He really is funny (though not defending those awful beliefs I assume he still holds). They do address how they never did blanket training, were never part of IBLP as a married couple, how they want to teach their sons to think for themselves, more about therapy, family size, a JB-ism, dances around talking about Jana and if Jill thinks her younger siblings will ever leave IBLP (she doesn't answer), a question from a journalist from 2007 that interviewed the family, and more. It was a pretty solid interview, IMO. 

 

No host - they're just answering questions posted on the website. 

 

Here's the link to watch: https://livesigning.com/counting

Derick mentions he had been in a fraternity. Well that was a surprise. Maybe it was a tame one? Because every frat I knew on campus was ridiculous. Constant drinking, partying, and trying to sleep with as many girls as possible. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[twoandthrough]

18 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Derick mentions he had been in a fraternity. Well that was a surprise. Maybe it was a tame one? Because every frat I knew on campus was ridiculous. Constant drinking, partying, and trying to sleep with as many girls as possible. 

I was in a co-ed honors fraternity, so it's possible it was something like that. We were still EXTREMELY social and even won events like Homecoming and stuff... but it wasn't the same as a frat or sorority by any means. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, twoandthrough said:

I was in a co-ed honors fraternity, so it's possible it was something like that. We were still EXTREMELY social and even won events like Homecoming and stuff... but it wasn't the same as a frat or sorority by any means. 

Oh I forgot about those. Maybe he meant that type. 
 

Derick also said he would be fine with his son being a hairdresser. Surprising since we know there’s a belief that male hairdressers are usually gay. I don’t believe that since my husband has a very good friend who is straight and a hairdresser. But I bet fundies believe that stereotype. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[St.Clara]

A survivor of IBLP discusses Jill´s book. She says Michelle reminds her of her mother. (Her parents are still in the cult.) She also talks about how insular they lived as children.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2l6QbIqrMc

 

[Giraffe]

21 minutes ago, Jasmar said:

I agree with everything you said except that he’s no Christian.

I respectfully disagree.
 

This may be a bit convoluted but I hope the  general idea comes across. IMO, “A real christian would never…” type statements might make other Christians feel better about bad/evil people claiming the name of Christ but for many of us on the outside of christendom - especially those of us who are former christians - it’s just a way of pretending like there’s something special separating True Christians from the rest of us. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think they let it slip that their therapist is Creek. I know the Creek Nation is a decent size but saying he’s a male therapist, Christian, Creek, and probably lives in the general area of where they live. I think that’s going to be easy for people to figure out who he is. 

[NachosFlandersStyle]

20 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think they let it slip that their therapist is Creek. I know the Creek Nation is a decent size but saying he’s a male therapist, Christian, Creek, and probably lives in the general area of where they live. I think that’s going to be easy for people to figure out who he is. 

I hope people do not, or that they used the name of a different nearby tribe for privacy's sake. Can you imagine having to deal with paparazzi at your *therapist's office*?!

38 minutes ago, twoandthrough said:

I was in a co-ed honors fraternity, so it's possible it was something like that.

Some schools also have religious fraternities. There was one on my campus affiliated with some kind of Protestant denomination. It was dudes living together like a traditional frat but they were not throwing any big parties, at least not any I'd have wanted to go to!

[SassyPants]

46 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

I hope people do not, or that they used the name of a different nearby tribe for privacy's sake. Can you imagine having to deal with paparazzi at your *therapist's office*?!

Some schools also have religious fraternities. There was one on my campus affiliated with some kind of Protestant denomination. It was dudes living together like a traditional frat but they were not throwing any big parties, at least not any I'd have wanted to go to!

Yes, my Catholic University had a religious institute within the university itself.  I believe it was co-ed. 

[katilac]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:16 AM, Jackie3 said:

Being licensed does not make you a good counselor. It’s not that hard to get licensed as a counselor.

Where do you live that it's not that hard to get licensed as a counselor? 

I'm in the US, and in my state you must earn a master's degree, complete an internship of 300 hours and a supervised practicum of 600 hours, pass the exam, and then complete 3,000 supervised hours.  

[JDuggs]

Oklahoma State U has a Christian fraternity that looks like Derick would join: Beta Upsilon Chi.

[lexiloumarie]

I am still processing this book because wow. It was both everything I expected and heartbreaking to hear just how much she lived in fight or flight. She doesn't talk about it as explicitly abusive parts of her childhood but the emotional and mental abuse is described definitely caused her a lot of fear and anxiety. 

 

I think the brother asking about how to court without JB involved was  either Justin (was living in Texas with Claire's family) or JD. I'm assuming Justin because they've been married for quite some time, she wears pants and they haven't had kids yet. It sounds like an escape marriage. 

I'm assuming the sibling whose fear of disappointing JB/Michelle to the point that it was hurting their marriage was Jessa based on where it was in the timeline. It could have been Jinger but she didn't seem to have an issue using Jingers name when talking about her elsewhere. I think Jessa also is one who agrees privately but is too far up sh*ts creek to rock the boat. She has always waited a long long time to announce her pregnancies - one of the only ways she gets control and agency. Jessa was always the willful one who needed broken, and I think she is particularly fearful of punishment by JB. 

I think the father who inquired about how to support his child was likely Hannah or Kateys dad. I'm assuming Hannah's. He was friendly but not close with them, and the Wissmans have always come across as close and supportive of each other. He'd have known Jill enough to reach out and have her be comfortable sharing that info. 

[Giraffe]

11 minutes ago, katilac said:

Where do you live that it's not that hard to get licensed as a counselor? 

I'm in the US, and in my state you must earn a master's degree, complete an internship of 300 hours and a supervised practicum of 600 hours, pass the exam, and then complete 3,000 supervised hours.  

Trolletta is just trolling. Apparently the Royals threads are boring her lately so she’s branching out. 

[FilleMondaine]

4 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Trolletta is just trolling. Apparently the Royals threads are boring her lately so she’s branching out. 

Thanks, Giraffe. I was really confused by that. Licensing is hard for a good reason.

[gobucks]

9 hours ago, Cam said:

Hm. Makes me think Joy signed a contract and is indebted to JB. Wouldn’t that have occurred before Josh was ever arrested for downloading csam? So she would not have know the extent of his molestation of her which she seemed only to learn at the trial. And would Joy have been married when signing the contract so she and Austin both signed it? Maybe that explains some of Austin’s seeming anger at the trial. He was thoroughly duped by JB yet signed a contract so he has to cow tow to him.  

I can see Joy and Austin deciding that they just have to roll with the punches and accept this. Remember Joy calling JB about her last pregnancy to show him the pee stick? She’s team JB. Austin is so different from a Derick or a Jeremey. Joy doesn’t have the intellect of Jill or Joy and she didn’t take the brunt of things like the older girls due to her being the 9th kid. I don’t think she wants to take on anything, no confrontations, not deal with any fallout, just live her life. 

I see Austin as being incessantly annoyed that she had signed a contract. He does not ever seem to enjoy filming, especially on the show. He seems very uncomfortable in front of the camera. 

[Giraffe]

8 minutes ago, gobucks said:

I see Austin as being incessantly annoyed that she had signed a contract. He does not ever seem to enjoy filming, especially on the show. He seems very uncomfortable in front of the camera. 

He could be annoyed that he signed a contract, too. I can’t imagine only one in a couple would’ve signed it while the other didn’t (especially if it’s the woman who signed). I’m curious if they really did sign away their rights to YouTube proceeds. If I were an in-law I’d feel enraged. 

[Jackie3]

36 minutes ago, katilac said:

Where do you live that it's not that hard to get licensed as a counselor? 

I'm in the US, and in my state you must earn a master's degree, complete an internship of 300 hours and a supervised practicum of 600 hours, pass the exam, and then complete 3,000 supervised hours.  

I'm in the US, too.

The masters programs are easy to get into. Classes are undemanding, and you get the same degree whether you are first or last in your class. If you want, you can take your classes online, or on the weekends (there are programs where all the classes are on the weekend). The "practicum", in most cases,  is just being a counselor for people getting low-cost therapy.  Almost no one fails their practicum, unless they just don't show up.

"Supervised hours" just means working as a therapist (usually in community mental health), where you earn a salary and get benefits.  You just meet with a supervisor for an hour/wk. When you've worked long enough to meet your state requirements, you fill out the licensing app. As for the test, the pass rate in many states is near 90%.

Yes, you have to jump through hoops, but none of it is particularly taxing or difficult. It's not engineering or med school.  Getting your license definitely doesn't mean you are a good therapist. I know unlicensed clinicians who are outstanding, and unlicensed ones who are awful. 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Jackie3

[katilac]

On 9/12/2023 at 4:42 PM, viii said:

 I just wish she had gone in a little harder on her mom, who is complicit with everything, but perhaps she didn't want to burn every bridge. 

It's very hard to process the fact that one of your parents was abusive and/or didn't have your best interests at heart, and exponentially more difficult to do the same for the second parent. It makes it harder to hold onto fond childhood memories. 

It happens even when the 'worse' parent is not the one in a position of control. I have a friend who eventually accepted that their mom was controlling, abusive, and crazy, but had nothing but fond thoughts for their father. Dad was great because he comforted them as children, wasn't batshit crazy, and maybe tried to skirt some of the rules - but he also did absolutely nothing to curb the abuse, even though he was the one in the power position: he was the male in a 'wives submit' religion, he was physically more powerful, and he was the one and only breadwinner. 

He could have protected them, and he chose not to. They can't face that reality because they would lose too much. 

On 9/13/2023 at 10:51 PM, viii said:

I just don’t think Jim Bob would ever so publicly risk his reputation like that. 

Also, speaking of El Salvador… wasn’t there a situation where Jill panicked and it turned out it was just a shower curtain falling? I feel like I remember people here just roasting her over that. 

If the strip club was on local stomping grounds, JB would not really have been risking his reputation. Why? Because some of the local judges were also there, some of the preachers and deacons, the sheriff, and so on. Most of these men don't actually believe ogling women is a sin, it's just a method of control. Or they think, yeah, it's kind of a sin, but we mens can't help ourselves. 

None of them are going to expose each other, because that exposes themselves. Nobody 'lower' than the big guys is likely to expose them, because one or more of the big guys has great power over them. No churchgoing man is going to admit to being in a strip club, and there are probably almost no men around who aren't churchgoers. 

And, if you do get caught, it's still unlikely that you lose all of your power and position, as long as you are willing to cry on camera as you publicly repent of your sins. Disgraced preachers return to the pulpit, disgraced politicians get reelected. 

Just like most criminals, they convince themselves they won't get caught, and that they'll get out of it if they do. 

[SassyPants]

I am business tax stupid so can someone explain to me how taxes get paid via the MAD Inc that JB created.So the income from the show/s was deposited into MAD Inc, and JB was then doling out amounts as he saw (and likely sees) fit. Jill mentioned a sum of 8 million accrued, as an estimate. She also stated that when the show money started flowing in, JB started to spend large sums of money on rentals, planes and new motor homes. How much tax protection does a company (LLC?) provide? Are these folks getting off Scot-free? Do the families living on JB money file taxes at all? Can other businesses exist within MAD Inc? As an example, do funds raised from the construction, car lots and towing businesses funnel into MAD? Is that legally possible? 

I am sure the IBLP promotion of self employment reinforces business ownership among its followers.

How much money are folks “encouraged” to tithe to ATI based on IBLP?

The money part of the Duggars has always interested me and Jill’s book has just made me more curious. 

[metheglyn]

18 hours ago, JDuggs said:

I don’t think the person who posted that really cares about Joy, but Joy’s response that she is very happy with the way her life is makes me think that she considers Jill a complainer who is making a big fuss about nothing, and Joy wants people to infer that. What’s interesting to me is that Joy wants everyone to know how close she feels with Jinger now even though Jinger wrote a book “disentangling” from how they were raised because it wasn’t directed at the parents. But Jill actually exposing JB’s true self was too far for Joy.

Joy just posted a new Q&A and one of the questions she and Austin addressed was whether they planned to read Jill's book. Joy said she already read Jinger's and plans to read Jill's, and from her tone of voice didn't sound unhappy or upset about either of them. Austin, who also plans to read it, specifically said "If your family member wrote a book about your family, would you read it? Duh." And Joy replied "Yeah... I'm going to read it just so I can like, yeah, I want to know what it's about. I want to know what she has to say."

I couldn't embed the video, but the link takes you directly to the point of the video where they start talking about the book. https://youtu.be/bFniHIvL8Rw?si=fA6lnTdXP225WhOY&t=411