Dillards 93: Counting the Cost - Indeed

[MaryOrMartha]

3 hours ago, Cheetah said:

I just finished it and echo the other sentiments here.  I am curious about the part where JB gives $80K to all of the adult siblings but they have to sign another contract that IIRC included a lifetime NDA.  Jill and Derick never ended up signing it but I wonder who did and how enforceable that sort of thing is.  That might put a serious crimp in some of them being able to go far from his thumb.

I think this proves Jessa signed that contract.

[Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing]

10 hours ago, FleeJanaFree said:

She gets her nose pierced but this time calls her parents to give them a heads up. She talks to Michelle but JB doesn’t pick up. She gets it done and then gets a call from dad pleading with her not to do it. Michelle later tells Jill she was glad JB didn’t pick up when Jill first called him because he was very angry. 

The nose ring backlash(?) she got is interesting. Especially considering that nose rings ARE biblical.

Ezekiel 16:12 ESV

And I put a ring on your nose and earrings in your ears and a beautiful crown on your head.

Genesis 24:47 ESV

Then I asked her, ‘Whose daughter are you?’ She said, ‘The daughter of Bethuel, Nahor's son, whom Milcah bore to him.’ So I put the ring on her nose and the bracelets on her arms.

 

However, the Duggars are staunch users of KJV which states:

Ezekiel 16:12 - And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

Genesis 24:47 - And I asked her, and said, Whose daughter art thou? And she said, The daughter of Bethuel, Nahor's son, whom Milcah bare unto him: and I put the earring upon her face, and the bracelets upon her hands.
 

So go figure…

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing

[Natalie22]

1 hour ago, molecule said:

I just finished reading on my kindle. I noticed several editing errors (mostly missing words), so they need to send an editor through again.

Jim Bob's dickatude is worse than I had realized. The "bill" for money spent on Jill is juvenile and petty. And what's the deal with Michelle bringing a copy of the contract so late at night? Did JB put her up to that, or did she decide that she wanted to get the copy to them?

It's also fucking illegal. You cannot charge your minor child for their 'cost of living'. They can't pay rent, etc. 

[Kiki03910]

8 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

I had a marathon reading session and finished the whole book today…my general impression was she holds JB accountable and everyone else is just doing his bidding or as trapped as she was. 
She definitely wants to leave the door open for her siblings to come to her. She mentioned one of her siblings FIL asking for her side of the story so he would know how to support his child who was marrying into the Duggar family and that a brother came to her and asked how to pursue a relationship with a girl without Pops taking over.

I was trying to figure out which brother this was. I don't know their timeline very well, but John David came to mind.

[indianabones]

2 hours ago, MaryOrMartha said:

I think this proves Jessa signed that contract.

Her house remodel money had to come from somewhere!

[Father Son Holy Goat]

3 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

Probably because she does not consider that problematic. They are still conservative in their views (would be considered fundamentalist in many countries other than the US), and I’d be surprised if they did not follow the “spare the rod, spoil the child” concept and beat their children.

I sincerely hope you’re wrong but I suspect you may be right.
 

I’m hoping she’s saving the physical abuse details for season 2 of Shiny Happy People. 

[Cam]

11 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

I would which IL it would be that talked to her? Katey’s dad who basically handed her over to Jed? I feel like it wouldn’t be the Wissman’s, because they have known the family for so long. Doubt it was the Spivey”s eitjer. 

Lauren’s family knew the Duggars for years before Lauren married into it. There’s an early 19KAC episode showing a young Lauren and her family visiting the TTH. Makes me think Lauren’s dad wasn’t the one who talked to Jill. Either Abby’s or Katey’s would be my guess.

 

9 hours ago, slp said:

Remember Jill said JB said she was the most like her mom. 

I think this is one main reason JB was so incredibly angry with Jill seeking independence from him. JB was so successful in manipulating and molding Meech into what he wanted, and he thought Jill, being so like her mother, would be just as easy to control. He was shocked and livid when she proved him wrong. 

 

About Jill not mentioning the “encouragement” beating sessions alluded to in Shiny Happy People, it may be that she never rebelled to the extent that she was subjected to any of this. She was generally a compliant kid.

I really think Jessa and Ben signed the $80,000 contract. I’m sure she lives with many, many regrets. 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Cam

[Jackie3]

Quote

 

About Jill not mentioning the “encouragement” beating sessions alluded to in Shiny Happy People, it may be that she never rebelled to the extent that she was subjected to any of this. She was generally a compliant kid.

Even if that’s true, I’m sure she saw her siblings being beaten, or knew it was happening.

I think she didn’t address it because it could get her parents into serious legal trouble, and risk getting the minor children removed from the home (or she may think there’s a risk of that, because it probably wouldn’t happen). At the very least, there’d be negative publicity 
 

I think she could only go so far.

[Antimony]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

About Jill not mentioning the “encouragement” beating sessions alluded to in Shiny Happy People, it may be that she never rebelled to the extent that she was subjected to any of this. She was generally a compliant kid.

I put a hold on, so my opinion is subject to change on this bit, but I wonder if it's not mentioned for the same reason she doesn't go into detail re:Josh (I hear). It's a traumatic and very physical thing to recount. Or the above. Or, she knew that SHP would cover it because of a (presumably) good relationship with the producers and she didn't want to recount it herself. Or, editor wise (very soft opinion as I don't have a copy), it was hard to fit into the flow of the narrative about her adult life and an interactions with Jim Bob. 

The itemized list of her "expenses" from Jim Bob continues to blow my mind and since somebody typed it up on the Reddit, I shared with my husband who is absolutely thrown by this despite his lack of Duggar knowledge and has provided such basic insights apparently unfathomable to Jim Bob such as "That's not how taxes works." and "That's now how having children works." and "That's not how parenting works." and "...that's not even how a salary works." which pretty much sums it up. 

Though, perhaps more confusingly, Jill was married in 2014 and turned 18 in 2009 and so was only living at home for 5 years but he quotes her for 2 years of rent but 10 years of cellphone and 12 years of food and 8 years of fuel and 12 years of utilities (at an unfathomable rate) and 8 years of eating out and 8 years of clothes, so I really think JB is just using a random number generator on this one. I could read this one page for hours it's so boggling. 

[Xan]

My feeling is that Jill didn't want to open up a whole different can of worms with a discussion on physical punishment.  She had enough difficulty with just recounting the intrusive filming and the way Jim Bob withheld money.  Also, the contract and payments are things they can prove in case Jim Bob or his company or TLC decided to sue for some reason.  Jill would have to have the support of several siblings to expose any physical abuse and be believable.

I'm glad she's getting counselling.  Despite all her talk about how much she loves her parents and they love her, there are some deep wounds there.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I could easily see Jill getting way more upset at her younger siblings getting best. Especially her buddies. And it’s even possible her parents made her spank her buddies. We know that happens in some families. The Hales are pissed Elishaba wrote a tell all and they love to point out how she beat them just like their dad did. Yet they make their mother out to be a saint. 

[FilleMondaine]

Since I am writing on my phone, it is tough to give credit for people’s answers and contributions. So let’s do it this way: ThankYouThankYouThankYou!!!  Eleventy !1!!

I was hoping that the lawsuits had to do with TLC and her parents, but I do slightly remember the In Touch lawsuit. But public records are public records. Do you know what would have prevented public records, Jim Bob??? Taking care of your kids, and getting real help for problematic behavior from the very start long before it became a reportable offense!!

I wonder as well as someone here if the Dillards will join Bethenny Frankle and her drive for reality show rights for talent. 
 

And if they are in therapy, and likely also couples counseling, I am sure that the interrupting bit is getting worked on.

speaking of therapy, can you imagine all the CPS calls that had to be made by the mandated reporter???

[Cam]

1 hour ago, Xan said:

Also, the contract and payments are things they can prove in case Jim Bob or his company or TLC decided to sue for some reason.  Jill would have to have the support of several siblings to expose any physical abuse and be believable.

 

Makes a lot of sense. I figure Derick got a lot of great legal advice while they were writing the book.

As for him interrupting Jill when she speaks, I hate it. He really needs to work on it. I must add, I’ve been married decades and still call my husband out for doing this to me. Didn’t Kamala Harris famously go viral, after being interrupted by Pence in a political debate, by saying: “Mr. Vice President, I’m speaking.” I always love that one.

 

1 hour ago, Antimony said:

The itemized list of her "expenses" from Jim Bob continues to blow my mind and since somebody typed it up on the Reddit….

Though, perhaps more confusingly, Jill was married in 2014 and turned 18 in 2009 and so was only living at home for 5 years but he quotes her for 2 years of rent but 10 years of cellphone and 12 years of food and 8 years of fuel and 12 years of utilities (at an unfathomable rate) and 8 years of eating out and 8 years of clothes, so I really think JB is just using a random number generator on this one. I could read this one page for hours it's so boggling.

I think JB presented the list of expenses to Jill expecting it to be a BA-BAM! moment, like he had the game-winning trump card. Well, right back at ya, JB! He’ll never live this one down. After allll his preachy b.s. about chillen being a gift from God yadda yadda yadda, his itemized list of what he claimed it cost to raise one of them brings his mercenary side in full view. He is disgusting.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Cam

[Idlewild]

I think Jill has taken a conscious decision not to describe her abuse by Josh or JB/Michelle and it’s the right thing for her- victims of abuse are not obliged to share with anybody they don’t wish to. I think she is also mindful that there are other victims who don’t want their story telling, or may still be living with one of the abusers, and she doesn’t want to make things worse for them.

I am actually surprised how bad JB and Michelle are- I always thought they were greedy, shitty parents, but they are abusers.

Im also glad Jill has dispelled the myth beloved of so many humpers that JB was a hugely successful and wealthy man who just happened to get a TV show. The show paid for their house, their groceries, their activities and their trips and gave JB and M the platform to make more money.

It is clear from some of the disclosures that JB was terrified of losing the show.

[viii]

2 hours ago, Antimony said:

The itemized list of her "expenses" from Jim Bob continues to blow my mind and since somebody typed it up on the Reddit, I shared with my husband who is absolutely thrown by this despite his lack of Duggar knowledge and has provided such basic insights apparently unfathomable to Jim Bob such as "That's not how taxes works." and "That's now how having children works." and "That's not how parenting works." and "...that's not even how a salary works." which pretty much sums it up. 

Though, perhaps more confusingly, Jill was married in 2014 and turned 18 in 2009 and so was only living at home for 5 years but he quotes her for 2 years of rent but 10 years of cellphone and 12 years of food and 8 years of fuel and 12 years of utilities (at an unfathomable rate) and 8 years of eating out and 8 years of clothes, so I really think JB is just using a random number generator on this one. I could read this one page for hours it's so boggling. 

Maybe I read it too fast, but I was under the impression the itemized list of things was from after Jill turned 18, not raising her. It seemed to me a lot was during her young adult years and early marriage (like still paying for her phone bill even after she was married). Perhaps I’m wrong though. 

[medimus]

6 minutes ago, viii said:

Maybe I read it too fast, but I was under the impression the itemized list of things was from after Jill turned 18, not raising her. It seemed to me a lot was during her young adult years and early marriage (like still paying for her phone bill even after she was married). Perhaps I’m wrong though. 

But the list included 10 or 12 years of some things, so she would have been under 18 for some of those.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

4 minutes ago, viii said:

Maybe I read it too fast, but I was under the impression the itemized list of things was from after Jill turned 18, not raising her. It seemed to me a lot was during her young adult years and early marriage (like still paying for her phone bill even after she was married). Perhaps I’m wrong though. 

You’re right. For all that Derick wants to portray himself as having always supported his family, if Jim Bob’s list is even minimally true, they were very much living off Duggar money in the early years of their marriage. 

I noticed that the only mention of the magazine exclusives (which did not mention People by name) complained about the time involved - but not about the money. It’s well known that People pays for access, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they kept that money, but are not mentioning it because it doesn’t fit their current narrative. 

[Antimony]

8 minutes ago, viii said:

Maybe I read it too fast, but I was under the impression the itemized list of things was from after Jill turned 18, not raising her. It seemed to me a lot was during her young adult years and early marriage (like still paying for her phone bill even after she was married). Perhaps I’m wrong though. 

Some of the years could be or definitely are, but it's very confusing. I guess it depends on when he sent this letter. It looks like Derick started law school...2018 ish? They got married in 2014. Jill is only 32 now and he charges her for 12 years of food, so even if he wrote that letter now she would have been only 20 when he started "charging". If he wrote it around 2019-2020, he's dipping into Jill's childhood "food at home" expenses. Hell, even if he wrote it today he is still itemizing her expenses for food as  a stay at home daughter when she didn't have a practical choice to move out or do (meaningfully paid) work during that time. 

I genuinely think he just made up whatever number and years combinations got close to whatever he told the IRS her "salary" was and chose those items to be as emotionally cutting as possible. Food, shelter, utilities, and gifts all itemized. It's like engineered to be a gut punch. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

When I was a young adult, my parents did pay for some stuff. Not a lot since I was always working and going to school. But they paid for things like car and health insurance. But I mostly paid for everything else. Of course they took me out to eat and paid. I feel like my parents probably paid for less than a lot of my friends when we were 18. I know plenty of people who had parents that paid for a lot when they were legal adults and never expected to be reimbursed 

[Idlewild]

I think there are some unanswered questions- like the money from magazine interviews, who paid for the airfares for their trips home from their ‘mission’, Jill saying she wanted to concentrate on midwifery, but did a very basic certificate and doesn’t seem to have thought about doing a degree.

However, growing up in that toxic environment must have been hell. I also think Derick’s snotty attitude on social media was probably due to the fact that he couldn’t say what he wanted to JB, so he vented on SM instead.

I think most of the kids took the $80k- Jinger is the only one I can see thinking it wasn’t worth it.

[nst]

It's really disgusting how Josh got away with so much with regards to his parents. If I were Jill I would never speak to them again.  Jill should be proud that she has been able to rid herself of all, Jessa is immersed in the cult. But JB and the pedophile are just the worst ever. 

3 hours ago, Antimony said:

I put a hold on, so my opinion is subject to change on this bit, but I wonder if it's not mentioned for the same reason she doesn't go into detail re:Josh (I hear). It's a traumatic and very physical thing to recount. Or the above. Or, she knew that SHP would cover it because of a (presumably) good relationship with the producers and she didn't want to recount it herself. Or, editor wise (very soft opinion as I don't have a copy), it was hard to fit into the flow of the narrative about her adult life and an interactions with Jim Bob. 

The itemized list of her "expenses" from Jim Bob continues to blow my mind and since somebody typed it up on the Reddit, I shared with my husband who is absolutely thrown by this despite his lack of Duggar knowledge and has provided such basic insights apparently unfathomable to Jim Bob such as "That's not how taxes works." and "That's now how having children works." and "That's not how parenting works." and "...that's not even how a salary works." which pretty much sums it up. 

Though, perhaps more confusingly, Jill was married in 2014 and turned 18 in 2009 and so was only living at home for 5 years but he quotes her for 2 years of rent but 10 years of cellphone and 12 years of food and 8 years of fuel and 12 years of utilities (at an unfathomable rate) and 8 years of eating out and 8 years of clothes, so I really think JB is just using a random number generator on this one. I could read this one page for hours it's so boggling. 

my god the Gaul on that man. 

[backyard sylph]

I ended up reading the book last night. It's better written than I expected, by far. The ghost writer did a good job of shaping and directing the narrative so that it builds from the simple naive life to a far more complicated one, with the hope of settling back into a new kind of simplicity. Her voice is fully retained, which is not always the case with these things. 

I was most impressed by what seems to be a rather good therapist; yes, a religious one, but the real thing. And most disgusted by Jim Bob's itemized list. I'm glad she shared that in full detail. 

Despite that, she still wants to believe the "Pops" of her youth is in Jim Bob, and to us it looks like that can hardly be true, but for the sake of her and her siblings and their offspring, I guess I can hope for some redemption in the midst of hoping he's taken down hard. But I wouldn't place a bet on it. When Trump rose to—whatever, I was introduced to other people's understandings and involvements with narcissists, something unfamiliar to me at the time, but I can certainly recognize that same pattern in Jill's father. 

[viii]

Quote

“You want to know why I’m crying?” she recalls telling her dad. “It’s that you think I’m some kind of horrible person just because I wear pants and have a nose ring … You treat me like I’m a prodigal who’s turned her back on you… You treat me worse than you treat my pedophile brother.”

Favourite line of the whole book. Go Jill! 

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

I think Jill has taken a conscious decision not to describe her abuse by Josh or JB/Michelle and it’s the right thing for her- victims of abuse are not obliged to share with anybody they don’t wish to. I think she is also mindful that there are other victims who don’t want their story telling, or may still be living with one of the abusers, and she doesn’t want to make things worse for them.

I was glad she didn’t go into any more detail about Josh’s abuse… 1) I don’t need specifics…it feels voyeuristic and 2) it was obviously traumatic for her at the time, she thought it was dealt with never to be brought up again, and was re-traumatized everytime it came out in the press again. If you want specifics on Josh there’s already plenty of places to find it online. I’m glad Jill chose for herself this time what and how much to share.

Did anyone else catch in chapter 6 (page 152 on the kindle) when JB calls all the kids together to let them know about the $80,000 that “Josh has had some more struggles again…”

This was in fall 2016, so over a year after the Ashley Madison scandal broke and still a few years from the car lot being raided in fall 2019. JB didn’t elaborate on it, and Jill didn’t seem to have any more details. It made me wonder what else went on that they managed to hide from the public because I don’t remember any extra scandal in 2016, and how Jill (and most of the kids), where given very little information and seldom knew what was really going on in the family.

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

I was glad she didn’t go into any more detail about Josh’s abuse… 1) I don’t need specifics…it feels voyeuristic and 2) it was obviously traumatic for her at the time, she thought it was dealt with never to be brought up again, and was re-traumatized everytime it came out in the press again. If you want specifics on Josh there’s already plenty of places to find it online. I’m glad Jill chose for herself this time what and how much to share.

Did anyone else catch in chapter 6 (page 152 on the kindle) when JB calls all the kids together to let them know about the $80,000 that “Josh has had some more struggles again…”

This was in fall 2016, so over a year after the Ashley Madison scandal broke and still a few years from the car lot being raided in fall 2019. JB didn’t elaborate on it, and Jill didn’t seem to have any more details. It made me wonder what else went on that they managed to hide from the public because I don’t remember any extra scandal in 2016, and how Jill (and most of the kids), where given very little information and seldom knew what was really going on in the family.

Anna probably caught him looking at porn. Maybe adult porn. But still porn. Something fundies freak out about. It’s so weird that they act like adult porn is basically just as bad and child.