Dillards 93: Counting the Cost - Indeed

[slp]

I was so nervous for her. We live in the south in a small town.  Churches on every corner.  She was over 18 so she did it herself and she asked the lady if she was a Christian first thing. Then asked how that factored into her counseling. She shared a lot of her sessions with me afterwards at first just to be sure she wasn’t hearing toxicity and not recognizing it. 
 

she’s come so far!  I’m so proud of her.  She is married now and just turned 23. About to start nursing school.  She’s forgiven me for so much of the awful way she was raised.  
 

I have a lot of repair work to do on myself and with my other children.  I don’t have a relationship with my oldest as she is still in a cult with her husbands family. Unfortunately bc my father and stepmother had money they orchestrated a guardianship over my younger children when I left the church and began dating an African American man. Again we live in the south in a Bible Belt town. I (gasp) stayed overnight with him many times without marriage, drank alcohol. And (GASP) he’s African American so….. 

A lot of trauma in our family.  We are working on healing. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

I downloaded Jill's book last night and have just finished it - it really was one I couldn't put down!  I think it answered a lot of questions, and handled the issues with her family tactfully. 

JimBob really is a greedy SOB who appears to have forgotten about J.OY. and instead started putting self first, money second, and Jesus last.

[JermajestyDuggar]

16 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I downloaded Jill's book last night and have just finished it - it really was one I couldn't put down!  I think it answered a lot of questions, and handled the issues with her family tactfully. 

JimBob really is a greedy SOB who appears to have forgotten about J.OY. and instead started putting self first, money second, and Jesus last.

Jim Bob ascribes to YMCA 

Yourself first

Money second

Children third 

Anyone else last 

[Ilovebrownies]

Chad is a real POS isn’t he

[Father Son Holy Goat]

7 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Guys, I’m not going to lie, I do have a bit of a bias against Christian counselors. But that’s only because so many aren’t actually licensed counselors. However if Jill and Derick did find a Christian counselor that is licensed, I say good for them. It sounds like theirs must be licensed. Because the stuff I’ve heard about Christian counselors that aren’t licensed and basically just had a few weeks of “training” by other religious folks is staggering. 

I’ve never gotten Christian counseling but I have received pastoral counseling around the trauma I endured. It wasn’t therapy, it was simply learning how to view God and faith post trauma. I found it helpful, and saw a mental health therapist on the side. 
 

3 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

This is so true. It really just struck me how these men’s “sexual sins” are regularly unconsensual. And when that’s the norm, women and girls “tempting” men into sex mostly means literally asking to get raped. 🤮

They really figured out a way to explain their illogical train of thought.

 

3 hours ago, noseybutt said:

I am a fan of survivors being granted privacy and space if that is what they want.

But the feeling humiliated troubles me. Yes, it is s common response. And yes, she feels what she feels

But the humiliation is due to manipulation by the offenders and the idea (from society) that sexual abuse survivors did something wrong.

Could we stop that already?

 

I felt a lot of humiliation after rape, not because I believed I did something wrong but because my sense of autonomy and power was violated. I felt ashamed for being weak and rape-able again. 
 

Of course now I know I wasn’t weak, I was a powerful woman who was over powered. Even if I had made different small choices like running sooner or not freezing it’s still not my fault. I didn’t decide to get raped, someone else decided to do that to me. It is THEIR fault, not mine.

 

59 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Jim Bob ascribes to YMCA 

Yourself first

Money second

Children third 

Anyone else last 

It is not fun to stay at that YMCA

Edited September 14, 2023 by Father Son Holy Goat

[NachosFlandersStyle]

3 hours ago, noseybutt said:

I am a fan of survivors being granted privacy and space if that is what they want.

But the feeling humiliated troubles me. Yes, it is s common response. And yes, she feels what she feels

But the humiliation is due to manipulation by the offenders and the idea (from society) that sexual abuse survivors did something wrong.

Could we stop that already?

 

I think the subtext here is that she was raised in a culture that values virginity (even for things like kissing!) above all else, and one that is very, very bad at distinguishing consensual from nonconsensual. Hopefully that's something her therapist understands and is working on.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

I think the subtext here is that she was raised in a culture that values virginity (even for things like kissing!) above all else, and one that is very, very bad at distinguishing consensual from nonconsensual. Hopefully that's something her therapist understands and is working on.

Yes, when Elizabeth Smart was first raped, she remembered being told by a teacher that having sex before marriage was like being a piece of chewed bubble gum. No one would want her now that she was raped. It made her feel hopeless and like nothing after he raped her. 

[Antimony]

I know I've watched Juju Chang interview people before but I can't place why she seems so familiar.

In any case, I think the question on if Jill has or would reach out to Josh must have been approved. I'm doing an interview for a podcast (smaller production than this, obviously) but they've already sent me all the questions and asked me to approve them and it's not even controversial. Overall, it feels like they've seen these questions before. Just the sense I get. And I think they get a better interview with previewed questions, because this is well...a book tour, not a hostile interviewee or a TLC production. (I do think TLC doesn't preview their questions for their reality cast, because, well, different kind of interview.)

It's interesting though that she sent a card to Josh. She thinks that it got sent back because she's "not on his list" which really could be true, but it is also true that many handmade cards cannot come in and will get turned around - depends on what they're made of. I assume she's talking about since he has been in jail (because Juju asks about the trial right before). I can't remember how the federal system returns their rejected mail and if they say why or not. Very often they won't give a reason for a returned, so it truly could be either. But, that very well may just be useless trivia, because it also sounds like, "I have [reached out to him]..." when it didn't turn out to actually reach him feels like, "I did, or I tried, and then I'm glad it didn't work out." which...yea, I've been there with abusive family. Tracks. 

[Cam]

Here’s a screenshot from today of Amazon’s statistics for the Kindle version of Counting the Cost

 

 

This is the screenshot for the hardback version of Counting the Cost. The book has 552 reviews and 5 stars. People are pleased Jill is dishing the dope.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Cam

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 minutes ago, Cam said:

Here’s a screenshot from today of Amazon’s statistics for the Kindle version of Counting the Cost

 

 

This is the screenshot for the hardback version of Counting the Cost. The book has 552 reviews and 5 stars. People are pleased Jill is dishing the dope.

 

I hope it’s beating the pants off of Braggie’s shitty book. 

[seraaa]

22 hours ago, gobucks said:

I watched the YouTube live interview with Book Passage. Jill says she will not mention any specific siblings besides Jinger that she is close with because she wants to respect their privacy.

In the PEOPLE interview when she's talking on camera about her relationships with the family, she said she sees her mother and some of her sisters at birthdays, and that some of her other siblings are supportive behind closed doors. Because she phrased it like that, it does make me think that at least some of the boys also support what she's doing

[Jasmar]

16 hours ago, slp said:

On her current beliefs:  give her time.  Ten years ago I wore long skirts and didn’t cut my hair and made my daughters dress modestly. I homeschooled and prayed for my abusive husband and tried to be more submissive and obedient so he would turn fully to god.  🙄. Six years ago I wore pants and had cut hair and was about to put my kids in public school for the first time, was a single divorced mom and took my first legal deink of alcohol. I was a nurse w a job outside the house  For the first time.  I had come a long long way from the cult.  
 

I still had some toxic beliefs. I still believed homosexuality was wrong (had gay friends and loved them but believed they were “in sin”) I was “pro life” although I didn’t believe in protesting or co demning anyone for abortion.  
 

I grew slowly.  I learned. I lost a LOT in my personal life.  I stepped away from church. I deconstructed. I’m less than five years time my views are totally flipped.  Give her time. You never know. 😊

If you ever want to chat, my story is really, really close to yours. We weren’t skirts-only, and I did cut my hair, but the rest is all the same. Oh well, I did drink on occasion, but I didn’t grow up in the church. My three kids and I have all deconstructed in the last seven years. It feels SO GOOD to be out and free!

[lumpentheologie]

2 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I felt a lot of humiliation after rape, not because I believed I did something wrong but because my sense of autonomy and power was violated. I felt ashamed for being weak and rape-able again. 

Yes. The first time I realized I’d been raped, I felt humiliated for somehow failing at not getting raped. Especially since I was supposed to be this independent woman who traveled and was supposedly capable. God women are really taught to blame ourselves for everything. 

[gobucks]

6 hours ago, sassy41 said:

I was semi curious about what version of the Bible the Dillards use.  I actually started watching the Duggars because of a fascination with religion. I grew up in a very secular agnostic family , and that is where I have landed, but religion (and cults) have always just interested me a lot. 

One of the interviews I watched, they talk about KVJ and other versions of the Bible. 

[Jasmar]

6 hours ago, sassy41 said:

I was semi curious about what version of the Bible the Dillards use.  I actually started watching the Duggars because of a fascination with religion. I grew up in a very secular agnostic family , and that is where I have landed, but religion (and cults) have always just interested me a lot. 

Also, I just listened to their first (virtual) bookstore appearance.  Again what struck me, as opposed to what Jinger did in her interviews, was that even though they are obviously still faithful (and answered that question), they aren't trying to sell us on that or a particular domination or whatever.  They did talk about following the word of God as opposed to any one person, so that was interesting.  They still want to be missionaries (ughh) but this book, clearly wasn't a part of that mission. 

I noticed she used the ESV for at least one of the Bible quotes, which doesn’t surprise me. It’s a very male-supremacist version, moreso than a lot of other translations. The people behind it are pretty hard-core Calvinist and very, very much into complementarianism. I really, really hate the ESV, personally. My abusive ex was never quite able to convince me to switch from my NASB.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Jasmar

[sassy41]

1 minute ago, Jasmar said:

I noticed she used the ESV for at least one of the Bible quotes, which doesn’t surprise me. It’s a very male-supremacist version, moreso than a lot of other translations. The people behind it are pretty hard-core Calvinist and very, very much into complimentarianism. I really, really hate the ESV, personally. My abusive ex was never quite able to convince me to switch from my NASB.

Calvinists, not my favorite. (I took a religion class in college. Nothing terribly academic, but interesting.).  

[JDuggs]

From Joy’s IG. It surprises me that she didn’t just ignore this comment, like she ignored the one about reading Jill’s book. I definitely have felt that Joy has had a rift with Jill for a few years now and Joy is upset with Jill for ruining the brand. I think she’s the main sibling that Jill is extending grace to.

Spoiler

 

[SassyPants]

I am almost done listening. 

My #1 question: Why is JB so hung up on keeping the Dillards quiet on anything pertaining to the Duggar family and the show itself? What is JB afraid of? This is a huge red flag to me. JB is afraid. What could be worse than protecting your pedophile son? 

[Xan]

52 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I am almost done listening. 

My #1 question: Why is JB so hung up on keeping the Dillards quiet on anything pertaining to the Duggar family and the show itself? What is JB afraid of? This is a huge red flag to me. JB is afraid. What could be worse than protecting your pedophile son? 

Once you pull one brick out of that wall, the rest just might tumble.  So, we learn that JB&M have a truly messed up son.  Now we know that Jim Bob loves money and will cheat his own children out of their earnings.  We find out that they didn't build that big house but had a lot of help from TLC.  I think he's afraid we'll discover that the whole thing has been a charade the whole time.  ISB bus:  They've had to punish the kids over and over to get them to be obedient and smile at the cameras.  They didn't leave their reproductive lives up to God.  They timed sex when Michelle was most likely to conceive.  Jim Bob really wanted to be a politician and help the Dominionists take over the country.  Michelle is sick and tired of him grabbing her arm for every picture.  The community doesn't like them.  The children are so poorly educated that Jim Bob has to support most of them or they'd never find jobs.  

The story that I heard earlier about Jim Bob is that he saved up $250,000.00 to run for the Senate.  The whole time he was saving up, the community was leaving boxes of food and bags of clothes at their door because they were worried about the family.  JB was buying shoes for the children at Goodwill and bragging that he only paid $1.00 per pair.  As Jill said, they lived on bean burritos and ramen noodles.  And J Boob had a quarter of a million dollars in the bank because he thought he could be famous.  He was no Christian then and he's no Christian now.

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, JDuggs said:

From Joy’s IG. It surprises me that she didn’t just ignore this comment, like she ignored the one about reading Jill’s book. I definitely have felt that Joy has had a rift with Jill for a few years now and Joy is upset with Jill for ruining the brand. I think she’s the main sibling that Jill is extending grace to.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Oh FFS! If people really cared about Joy they wouldn’t post shit like that! How awful!

[SassyPants]

16 minutes ago, Xan said:

Once you pull one brick out of that wall, the rest just might tumble.  So, we learn that JB&M have a truly messed up son.  Now we know that Jim Bob loves money and will cheat his own children out of their earnings.  We find out that they didn't build that big house but had a lot of help from TLC.  I think he's afraid we'll discover that the whole thing has been a charade the whole time.  ISB bus:  They've had to punish the kids over and over to get them to be obedient and smile at the cameras.  They didn't leave their reproductive lives up to God.  They timed sex when Michelle was most likely to conceive.  Jim Bob really wanted to be a politician and help the Dominionists take over the country.  Michelle is sick and tired of him grabbing her arm for every picture.  The community doesn't like them.  The children are so poorly educated that Jim Bob has to support most of them or they'd never find jobs.  

The story that I heard earlier about Jim Bob is that he saved up $250,000.00 to run for the Senate.  The whole time he was saving up, the community was leaving boxes of food and bags of clothes at their door because they were worried about the family.  JB was buying shoes for the children at Goodwill and bragging that he only paid $1.00 per pair.  As Jill said, they lived on bean burritos and ramen noodles.  And J Boob had a quarter of a million dollars in the bank because he thought he could be famous.  He was no Christian then and he's no Christian now.

And it seems that JB was spamming Jill with text and voice messages; some of them threatening and most all of them manipulative. The guy was literally spinning out of control. 

And the book did clarify for me some of the money questions that I had. Jill cited that JB(MAD) had earned 8 million dollars over the years and during that time JB was buying up property like a mad man. I was always under the assumption that JB had been buying properties and living off rental income from the 80s, but per Jill that was not the case.

[JDuggs]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

Oh FFS! If people really cared about Joy they wouldn’t post shit like that! How awful!

I don’t think the person who posted that really cares about Joy, but Joy’s response that she is very happy with the way her life is makes me think that she considers Jill a complainer who is making a big fuss about nothing, and Joy wants people to infer that. What’s interesting to me is that Joy wants everyone to know how close she feels with Jinger now even though Jinger wrote a book “disentangling” from how they were raised because it wasn’t directed at the parents. But Jill actually exposing JB’s true self was too far for Joy.

[SassyPants]

I wonder what kind of itemized bill JB would present to Jana? She’s been living at home for 33 8/12 years. Food, utilities, room, phone, insurance, trips, clothing…and on and on.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I hope it’s beating the pants off of Braggie’s shitty book. 

So I looked and she is beating the pants off of Braggie’s book. Jill’s book is #4 over all (no specific category). And Braggie’s is #347 over all. 

[Giraffe]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

So I looked and she is beating the pants off of Braggie’s book. Jill’s book is #4 over all (no specific category). And Braggie’s is #347 over all. 

This makes my godless heathen pants wearing heart so happy!