Dillards 93: Counting the Cost - Indeed

[louisa05]

21 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

Thank you for doing this. I am on the list at the library to get this.

When you say that she didn't say anything to put her family in a bad light, do you mean the family besides JB? Just recounting his actions puts him in a bad light. Laying out his words and deeds is a classic "show, don't tell" recommended to beginning writers, and makes him look like a monster (which I think he is.)

I'm about halfway through. Neither Michelle or JB come out looking good. She doesn't bring up her siblings specifically other than them being part of certain events (other than Josh). She doesn't say, "my parents were spiritually and emotionally abusive". She definitely shows us that they were. 

[CanadianMamam]

I would which IL it would be that talked to her? Katey’s dad who basically handed her over to Jed? I feel like it wouldn’t be the Wissman’s, because they have known the family for so long. Doubt it was the Spivey”s eitjer. 

[DalmatianCat]

1 minute ago, CanadianMamam said:

I would which IL it would be that talked to her? Katey’s dad who basically handed her over to Jed? I feel like it wouldn’t be the Wissman’s, because they have known the family for so long. Doubt it was the Spivey”s eitjer. 

I’m not sure how the timeline works out, but my guess would be Lauren since her dad seemed pretty protective and Lauren never seemed to like the extended Duggar family all the much. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

2 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

I would which IL it would be that talked to her? Katey’s dad who basically handed her over to Jed? I feel like it wouldn’t be the Wissman’s, because they have known the family for so long. Doubt it was the Spivey”s eitjer. 

Perhaps it is whoever James is pursuing. James was Jill’s buddy after all. 

[viii]

I thought perhaps Abby?

[FleeJanaFree]

35 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

 

When you say that she didn't say anything to put her family in a bad light, do you mean the family besides JB? Just recounting his actions puts him in a bad light. Laying out his words and deeds is a classic "show, don't tell" recommended to beginning writers, and makes him look like a monster (which I think he is.)

JB was definitely the most complicated character of her book. It’s very very clear to me she loves her dad. She came to slowly realize he was shady but she still wants to reconcile. My impression was she realizes he has limits and he’s not ever going be 100% the man she wants him to be. But i feel her books wasn’t an obvious “fuck you” to JB. to me she is sharing her experiences and I can see therapy has really helped her. 
 

I am surprised that I feel fonder of Derick! He really had her back, and seemed confused at times what she was getting at for issues that would have been huge at The Big House like when she brought up modest dress. It wasn’t a big  serious conversation of searching doctrine. he was like yeah cool, where what you want! I still think he has some dick-ish beliefs but I feel he’s a good husband and support system. 

as for the siblings, my feeling is she definitely doesn’t want to scare them off by being a rebel. She wants to be approachable. And for them to feel they can come to her with questions or for support. She doesn’t shame any of them. She doesn’t place any judgment except for Josh. She doesn’t want them picking sides between her and JB 

Edited September 12 by FleeJanaFree

[DalmatianCat]

3 minutes ago, viii said:

I thought perhaps Abby?

She was my second guess! Her or Lauren…Abby was married more recently than Lauren, but Lauren was younger and had less life experience.

[JermajestyDuggar]

21 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

I had a marathon reading session and finished the whole book today…my general impression was she holds JB accountable and everyone else is just doing his bidding or as trapped as she was. 
She definitely wants to leave the door open for her siblings to come to her. She mentioned one of her siblings FIL asking for her side of the story so he would know how to support his child who was marrying into the Duggar family and that a brother came to her and asked how to pursue a relationship with a girl without Pops taking over.

Let the guessing games begin! Lol. I’m running everyone through my mind right now. 

8 minutes ago, FleeJanaFree said:

She doesn’t want them picking sides between her and JB 

Which is smart because JB holds the money. He will probably win most of the time. Plus if she leaves the door open, they can always make their own realizations at any time in the future and they will feel like they can call her. 

[slp]

I feel that while she knows in her heart Michelle did some things very wrong, she feels a lot of sympathy for her mom bc she is stuck in a cult and w this controlling man who has become an egomaniac.

Michelle, in the first two books they wrote, talks about how she felt like a “sinner” and was so excited to learn God would forgive her etc.  She acted like she didn’t hear that as a kid which leads me to believe they weren’t super religious.  She then got “saved” and shortly met Jim Bob who had been involved with IBLP since going to a Basic Seminar at like 12 or 13.  He told her the “right way” to be godly and a Christian and gothards stuff really does a good job of making you think it’s their way or you’re going to hell.  

Michelle is probably terrified of going to hell and terrified of standing before god in judgement if she were to go against jb or iblp. Remember Jill said JB said she was the most like her mom. Michelle probably has the same feelings of anxiety and fear that Jill did but she doesn’t have support in her husband or church like Jill. She is throughly brainwashed.  I absolutely hold her responsible some but she is in a culture where she thinks she MUST obey her husband and his version of god or all the judgement is on her.

 I’m kind of leaning toward her taking the contract over in a “Jim Bob we HAVE TO” and taking it over like “ it’s ok jb I’ll do it to help you save face.  This way it looks like I did it not you caved in”

Also kind of shocked to hear she actually barked at Josh to stop being arrogant and good for her.   Makes me wonder if her not going to court is her way of “shunning” him (in some cults you shun by only speaking to the person about returning to “god” so maybe she still communicates but about repentenance? No clue .

again not saying she did nothing wrong but she is brainwashed a a member of this patriarchal crap too  Jb would destroy her if she tried to go against him 

 

 

 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I bought the book for the full hardcover price, and I hope that Jill makes enough money to tell Jim Bob where he can shove 1/19th of his estate.

[JermajestyDuggar]

19 minutes ago, slp said:

I feel that while she knows in her heart Michelle did some things very wrong, she feels a lot of sympathy for her mom bc she is stuck in a cult and w this controlling man who has become an egomaniac.

Michelle, in the first two books they wrote, talks about how she felt like a “sinner” and was so excited to learn God would forgive her etc.  She acted like she didn’t hear that as a kid which leads me to believe they weren’t super religious.  She then got “saved” and shortly met Jim Bob who had been involved with IBLP since going to a Basic Seminar at like 12 or 13.  He told her the “right way” to be godly and a Christian and gothards stuff really does a good job of making you think it’s their way or you’re going to hell.  

Michelle is probably terrified of going to hell and terrified of standing before god in judgement if she were to go against jb or iblp. Remember Jill said JB said she was the most like her mom. Michelle probably has the same feelings of anxiety and fear that Jill did but she doesn’t have support in her husband or church like Jill. She is throughly brainwashed.  I absolutely hold her responsible some but she is in a culture where she thinks she MUST obey her husband and his version of god or all the judgement is on her.

 I’m kind of leaning toward her taking the contract over in a “Jim Bob we HAVE TO” and taking it over like “ it’s ok jb I’ll do it to help you save face.  This way it looks like I did it not you caved in”

Also kind of shocked to hear she actually barked at Josh to stop being arrogant and good for her.   Makes me wonder if her not going to court is her way of “shunning” him (in some cults you shun by only speaking to the person about returning to “god” so maybe she still communicates but about repentenance? No clue .

again not saying she did nothing wrong but she is brainwashed a a member of this patriarchal crap too  Jb would destroy her if she tried to go against him 

 

 

 

I don’t think Michelle is shunning. I think she just couldn’t handle going to court. I think it was too much for her and she probably would have fallen apart in public. I don’t think she can handle the truth of how sick and depraved her son is. I think Michelle has a lot of defense mechanisms to get through the day. And denial is probably a big one. 

[FilleMondaine]

Thank you for the recaps! This would have been too hard for me to read, although I will think about how to be supportive.

would someone help me understand the lawsuit that was lost? What was that about?

[gobucks]

16 minutes ago, FilleMondaine said:

Thank you for the recaps! This would have been too hard for me to read, although I will think about how to be supportive.

would someone help me understand the lawsuit that was lost? What was that about?

The girls sued the tabloids that posted the redacted police reports that detailed the SA Josh did to them. Basically, they said it was illegal to post the names of the underaged people in those reports on the tabloids, gossip websites, etc so they sued those companies. 

Edited September 13 by gobucks

[Giraffe]

Someone needs to sue the f out of TLC.  I knew they were awful but reading these recaps from the book makes their predation even more evil. They need to be held accountable!!!

[backyard sylph]

I was 14th in line on Libby this morning and am already able to download tonight, so people are just burning through this thing. I'm in the middle of an X-Files marathon I started a few hours ago, but plan to start it tonight and finish in the morning. 

I've been thinking about how annoying Jill was when they were younger, and how much her deal with Derick in Central America irritated me, but now we know it was, as usual, not in her control. And now Jessa is basically the most annoying one. 

I have six kids, who were all raised the same, but gosh they've all turned out as such complete individuals! 🙂 I've always maintained it's both nature and nurture that determines how we begin to confront our lives as decision-makers. And we continue to evolve throughout our whole lives. I'm about to get super existential, so I'll stop here. But gosh I hope to live to see some of these Duggars really free from all the superstition and narrow thinking that holds us all back.

[gobucks]

24 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Someone needs to sue the f out of TLC.  I knew they were awful but reading these recaps from the book makes their predation even more evil. They need to be held accountable!!!

They signed a deal with Jim Bob and he filtered all the money and contracts through his own LLC. Personally, I don't know the former or current US laws regarding reality tv and child actors. Someone smarter than me can hopefully explain how it is legal. Is it Mad Family LLC or the production company or Discover that should be held accountable? It sounds like a lot of loopholes!

[Coconut Flan]

First it's state by state laws on children performing and working.  Being on a reality show and being an actor are two different things in most states. Arkansas has no laws about children on reality shows.

We have a relative who has reviewed a couple of TLC contracts and recommends no one ever sign with them. They're predatory if not abusive.

[Tdoc72]

58 minutes ago, FilleMondaine said:

Thank you for the recaps! This would have been too hard for me to read, although I will think about how to be supportive.

would someone help me understand the lawsuit that was lost? What was that about?

They sued the InTouch magazine and the police dept that released the records via FOIA request. I understand why she’s mad that it got out. It was personally humiliating to her and the other victims. However, the police dept redacted the reports and followed the law. So I don’t think they did anything wrong. The tabloids that published the redacted reports didn’t do anything illegal either, more like morally questionable. Josh tried suing as well. His got dismissed way earlier and then finally theirs did as well. 
Here’s an article: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/duggar-sisters-are-suing-everyone-except-for-their-brother-and-parents_n_591ee20be4b094cdba535002/amp

[sassy41]

I am trying to write another post, but this  looked interesting, if people hadn't seen this.

 

 

Edited September 13 by sassy41

[scoutsadie]

started it last night and read for a few hours, and read more tonight, so i'm about 85% of the way through. it is very readable and better written than i expected. and at the risk of sounding leghumpy... i'm really proud of her for standing up for herself, and i'm glad i bought this book. 

[Cheetah]

I just finished it and echo the other sentiments here.  I am curious about the part where JB gives $80K to all of the adult siblings but they have to sign another contract that IIRC included a lifetime NDA.  Jill and Derick never ended up signing it but I wonder who did and how enforceable that sort of thing is.  That might put a serious crimp in some of them being able to go far from his thumb.

[Xan]

Jill's book is #4 on Amazon now.  There's one negative review from someone who felt that it betrayed Jill's Christian principles to paint such a negative picture of Jim Bob.  (Speak for yourself, lady.  I thought those were the best parts.)

Spoiler

 

[molecule]

I just finished reading on my kindle. I noticed several editing errors (mostly missing words), so they need to send an editor through again.

Jim Bob's dickatude is worse than I had realized. The "bill" for money spent on Jill is juvenile and petty. And what's the deal with Michelle bringing a copy of the contract so late at night? Did JB put her up to that, or did she decide that she wanted to get the copy to them?

[zimona]

2 hours ago, sassy41 said:

I am trying to write another post, but this  looked interesting, if people hadn't seen this.

 

 

Thanks, interesting indeed. Derick irritates af by constantly interrupting Jill and doing his mansplaining. Maybe he's trying to be supportive, but there's definitely a better way to do this! 

[GreenBeans]

11 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Jill doesn’t talk about the “encouragement” beating sessions alluded to in Shiny Happy People,

Probably because she does not consider that problematic. They are still conservative in their views (would be considered fundamentalist in many countries other than the US), and I’d be surprised if they did not follow the “spare the rod, spoil the child” concept and beat their children.