Bro Gary Hawkins 23: Give Us the History

[postscript]

18 hours ago, thoughtful said:

I think of him as both. He is heinous. But his stupidity and weird mind lead to a lot of funny turns of phrase.

So do I. I have no doubt I would find him repellent in person, and I can only listen to him in small doses because his views are so horrific and his method of expressing them so uncoherent. However, his malapropisms, grammar-free Facebook posts and stereotypical to the point of parody good ol' preacher persona are also humorous. The fact that he considers himself eloquent and a paragon of godly virtue only adds to the humor. If I didn't find him funny, I wouldn't bother following him. I can't follow Lori Alexander because her screeds are utterly humorless. 

This is the first time I've heard of a gish gallop. I, too, was disappointed to discover it had nothing to do with Lillian or Dorothy Gish. 

9 hours ago, Alisamer said:

Like that thing about whether you can lose your salvation or not. I get that as a church, that's a big deal theologically. But what does it matter what an individual person believes about it? If they aren't teaching it or pushing it on others, who cares? It's a squirrely concept anyway, IMO. Since Baptists have no concept of purgatory or anything like that, it is hard to swallow the idea that say, Dennis Rader (the BTK killer), could be "saved" as a child or young adult and then go on to be a heinously sadistic serial killer and still be "saved". 

Rader was Lutheran, not Baptist, so probably not "the right kind of saved" for Gary and his people. But still - he was church council president, and that's how he was discovered, by sending taunting letters to the police via the media on a floppy disk that had been previously used for something church related and which still held the metadata. 

As a cradle Lutheran, I can speak to this.  Lutherans don't believe in personal conversion experience. If you have one, fine, but it's not required to get into heaven. If you're raised Lutheran, you're baptized as an infant (I was baptized at the age of 5 weeks), at which time your parents and godparents make promises of faith for you. At the age of 13/14, you are confirmed after 2-3 years of confirmation instruction. This usually coincides with your first communion. It's typically in the spring, shortly before eighth grade graduation. At confirmation, you reaffirm the promises made for you at your baptism. If you come to the church as an adult, you are baptized, at which time you make your own promises of faith. No need for further confirmation. Baptism is by sprinkling, not immersion. 

The mantra I was raised with was "the just shall live by faith." As long as you believe, you will enter heaven. No good works, no conversion experience. So the serial killer was baptized and presumably confirmed as a child. I have a hard time believing he retained his faith as he was killing people, but so long as he did, theoretically he could get into heaven under Lutheran theology.  

Of course, to Gary, all of this would be heresy. 

[thoughtful]

Cranky baby Gary is revving up his Covid conspiracy engine again.

With the LORD help you be taken out because there was men and women that fault for our country die! You remember that, dammit!

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by thoughtful
riffle

[thoughtful]

Gary's friends don't understand plural vs. singular or how to use punctuation any more than he does.

 

Spoiler

 

Also, don't bring up Gary's past sins. They're over there, under that Blood.

Spoiler

 

[AmazonGrace]

Nice cop-out... and the House of "God" sounds like there's something not so godly going on there

[thoughtful]

I need your help, FJ interpreters.

Ginger (the one who asks after Sheila's health) has commented under Gary's post asking where people would be on Sunday morning, in case Jesus came back.

The first word and the second sentence seem to imply that she's saying it doesn't matter if one is in church, as long as they believe. Is she disagreeing with Gary?

But what is "or trash missing" supposed to mean?

Maybe if Gary starts a fight with her, we'll find out more.

[Xan]

Could the "missing" be "mission"?  Although, I have no idea what she was trying to type to get the "trash" part.

And if the Lord came tomorrow, are they saying that He wouldn't be able to find them unless they were in church?  What if the Lord showed up on a Monday?  Would He have to leave empty handed?  I get that Gary thinks he'll get extra points for being found in church but that's just more crazy GaryRules.  It's as if he thinks that God will physically appear at his church and gather him up -- out of all the billions of people on this planet.  Yeah... sure, Gar.

ETA:  On her Facebook page, she mentions someone whom I assume is a family member who died.  The spelling is interesting.

Spoiler

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Xan

[thoughtful]

"Ureglone" sounds like a medical condition that has something to do with peeing, or a new medication to treat Peyronie's Disease.

I agree that "missing" could be a typo for "mission" - thanks.

Maybe "tract mission?" But I don't think that would be something she'd be doing instead of church.

[thoughtful]

Before you read on, please make sure you have swallowed anything in your mouth - I don't want any ruined phones or computers.

Spoiler

 

[AmazonGrace]

transmission? as in, watching the live streaming church?

[thoughtful]

8 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

transmission? as in, watching the live streaming church?

That could be it.

It's Becky's birthday, so Gary actually made a normal post for once.

Spoiler

That's the edited version, with just a bit of Tarzan-speak. Here's the first draft:

Hey, Gary - you're bilingual! You just want to address all of us when you say OK folks, right?

Most of the comments are just cheery birthday greetings, but some (including a bunch from one guy) are just so . . . fundy:

Spoiler

 

 

[AmazonGrace]

Lord Jesus Christ and His Traveling Mercy And Health is the worst band name ever.

 

[thoughtful]

Everybody sing!

Spoiler

 

 

[thoughtful]

I hadn't looked at the Family Baptist Facebook page in a while, so I went back to where I left off checking to see if Gary and Becky made it to church, and if there was anything especially disgusting to report from Pastor Baker.

On the morning of 8/20, they had a guest preacher, Dr. S. M. Davis, who had lots of DVDs to sell.

https://www.solvefamilyproblems.org/category-s/1853.htm

Spoiler

 

He does a longish, fast-talking sales pitch and rolls right from that into a very weird story. I think this has to be transcribed, starting with the the last few words of the sales pitch, because he really doesn't even stop to take a breath. He has a high-pitched, piercing voice, and an accent somewhere between Midwestern and Southern - hear Barney Fife in your head, then make it less intense, and you'll have it.

"Hopefully those can be a help and a blessing to ya years ago I received a telephone call from my friend Pastor Tony Deringer in Hillsboro Illinois he also gave me permission to share this story. He was concerned because of what happened at his church the previous Sunday November the  21st 1993. After the service ended, a first-time visitor at the church had called the child abuse hotline and reported something she saw the pastor do during his sermon. Now it was being investigated  and the local states states attorney was considering bringing felony charges against the pastor or child endangerment."

"Tony explained to me that he had been preaching about how - that God is someday going to cast Satan into hell, and to illustrate his point, he walked up from the pulpit, over to a front pew, where a man, his wife, and their eight-year-old were sitting. He then picked up eight-year-old Andrew and threw him about eight feet across the front of the church where the boy landed on his right side on the carpet."

"The boy's parents had a quote heated discussion the next day with their pastor about the incident but Tony talked to them and assured them that he meant the boy no harm that he wouldn't do it again, they were no longer upset. Tony explained to them that he had wrestled and roughhoused with the boy in the past, he expected the boy would land on his feet but that was not what happened."

Is everybody ing? Have you ed several times already?

Yeah - me, too.

"To let me know that the boy himself was not upset with him, Pastor Tony told me that later that same day Andrew and two of his buddies asked the pastor to throw them from the church's front porch out into the grass, which Pastor Tony wisely declined to do."

"A video camera was running at church that morning, recorded most of the incident and the police had taken the video as evidence of a possible crime. I listened to Tony, told him we'd all done something stupid some time, How many here have ever done somethin' stupid sometime? I prayed with him and wondered if it would all. Just. Blow. Away."

Then he immediately starts quoting bits of Proverbs that talk about how God hates pride.

Quote

 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look

The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

He defines arrogancy as "pompous, showy, swelling pride."

Captions:

Spoiler

Then, back to fragments from Proverbs - he makes them read 16:18 with him.

Quote

The Lord will destroy the house of the proud

Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord

16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.

I assume he's planning to make a connection between the bizarre story and the bible verses at some point, but damn! Call me crazy, but I think child-tossing is a bigger problem than pride.

He goes on about how they must be truly humble, so their actions will be sincerely humble, and, of course, admits he has not fully eliminated his own pride, still needs to work on being humble - the usual disclaimers.

He speaks for another 30 minutes on pride and humility - under the spoiler for length.

Spoiler

He talks about how pride hides and people don't even realize they have a pride problem. He makes passing reference to "people addicted to the gay lifestyle" now declaring they have pride. He makes them read this aloud:

Spoiler

 

He tells another story - Pastor Don Green was a guest preacher somewhere, and, as the time for the service approached, realized he'd been thinking prideful thoughts about his abilities. He found a secluded room in the house where he was staying (he mentions that the owners had a cat), knelt and confessed his pride, but didn't feel like it was enough. So he prostrated himself on the floor and begged for God's forgiveness. "As he began t'stand up, he noticed something really strange. And I'll finish that story in a minute."

And he starts carrying on about pride again. So, I guess leaving stories hanging is this guy's gimmick. It's like the old radio soap operas. Did Pastor kid-tosser get in trouble? Did it have anything to do with pride? Was Pastor Prostrate covered in cat hair or catshit, or had the cat leapt up onto his back? Tune in next week, folks, and don't forget to buy White Lily flour!

He tells them that anger or lust in men stems from pride, gossip and contention and nagging in ladies stems from pride. Even sins are gendered in their world.

He says that disastrous decisions are made because people won't get help to do being afraid of being thought of as "dumb." He follows up this one glimmer of a direction that might be healthy by making them read this off of the screen:

Spoiler

 

He chuckles and assures them he doesn't think they're dumb.

He says this sermon was "born" when he had a friend who was too proud to apologize. Wait- are we back to the kid-tosser? Nope - not yet.

He goes on and on and on about pride, and finishes the second story - Pastor Green had been "laying in cat stuff. Cat poo." He only had one tie with him so he went to church wearing "the cat poo tie, and the stain and the smell stayed where it was."

Sure, Jan.

He has made them read several things off of the screen, and now, as he discusses the sin of being proud of your social status or race, he has them read this:

 

Spoiler

He goes on to warn against pride in artistic or athletic talent. Musicians, he tells us for a long, long time, are especially prone to this. And the sound system goes totally wacky during this part of the sermon.  

He tells them how the pride of Pharoah (which, like Gary, he pronounces fay-roe) caused him to send his men into the sea after Moses. "I love what God did next - it's amazing! Gohhhd. Reached down and ripped the wheels off of all their chariots."

He relishes describing that for a while, and describes lots of other prideful people in the bible.

Naaman was a male chauvinist, so God sent a slave girl to humble him. He asks his wife when he thinks he's been proud, and she tells him. "Then ah need to apologize for it! Now, I'm not to the end of my message but a few weeks later Pastor Tony called me again."

Oh, we're back to the first story - he just slipped back into it.

"The incident had not blown away. In fact, things had gotten worse. I drove to Hillsboro, went out to eat with my pastor friend, he updated me on what had been happening. He had been publicly defensive of what he had done in throwing eight-year-old Andrew and insisted he had done nothing wrong. He explained that the state's attorney was ay . . . lady. And he had heard that she had said something like 'That pastor needs a good lesson and I'm the one to teach it to him.'"

"And I looked across the table and said 'Brother Tony, what you did may not have been a crime, but it was a mistake. It was dumb. You shouldn't have done it. My suggestion is that you call a press conference, and publicly apologize to the boy, his family, and the community for what you did."

He goes on talking about the advice he gave Tony.

"I was honestly shocked at my friend's response at that point, as he looked across the table at me and he said, 'I didn't do anything wrong! If ah wanted to ah'd do the same thing again next Sunday! That state's attorney's just doin' this 'cause she's a lady and thinks she can get by with attacking a pastor who's a man!'"

"And ah looked back and said 'Dear brother, I think what I'm dealing with now is pride and it is a very dangerous thing for you in this situation.' Number three, pride takes glory that is due to God alone . . . "

And he starts talking about Nebuchadnezzar. Is there more to the kid-tossing pastor story?

He reviews his numbered points, makes them read from the screen a few more times, and goes on to his advice for how to find pride in yourself and getting rid of it. He does, at least, give lip service to men needing to apologize to women and children, but so much of the "be humble" stuff is aimed at keeping the downtrodden underfoot, that it always makes me uncomfortable.

This was especially chilling, not to mention not making a lick of sense:

Spoiler

"December of 1993, a grand jury indicted my friend, Pastor Tony, with a felony charge of cruelty to children that was punishable by up to three years in prison and two misdemeanor charges of child endangerment and battery, each punishable by one year jail terms."

Spoiler

"My family and I took Tony out to dinner and I counseled him again, he listened a little more but there was still a resistance. Then, the word spread nationwide, and threats came against him and his family."

He goes on about how they had to move, and describes the trial, in which the video was shown.

"The boy suffered a rug burn on his right elbow and a bruise on his right hip. The visitor who called the child abuse hotline testified in court: 'The thing I saw and still do was the fright on the little boy's face. He was as white as a sheet and looked very frightened. When Andrew landed, the whole congregation collectively cried "Oh!" Then the pastor snapped his fingers and said "It's a trick - he's not hurt - he's more scared than anything else. Don't show mercy - God will have no mercy on that day." And the boy with tears in his eyes got up and walked back to his seat.'"

"I sat in the courtroom and listened as ay humbled, and now humiliated, pastor testified on the stand and said, 'I made a mistake.' He spoke to the news media and said, 'I admit I did wrong. I don't think I'm a criminal - I'll leave it up to the jury.'"

He tells them how a TV reporter came up to them while they were waiting for a verdict, and asked the Pastor why he hadn't just called a press conference months earlier, to say what he just said on the stand, claiming it would have kept it from becoming such a big deal.

Pastor Tony was found guilty of misdemeanor child endangerment, sentenced to two years court supervision and had to do 200 hours of community service, undergo a psychological evaluation and pay court costs.

Davis told Pastor Tony that God had humbled him, and Tony admitted it was true. The church closed several months later. He makes them read the "pride goeth before destruction" verse again. He tells them to raise their hands if they could have done something as "dumb" as what Tony did, in fact, if they could have done exactly what Tony did.

He tells them that whenever they are tempted to think they'd never do something like that, they should say (he makes them read):
 

Spoiler

 

He goes on a bit more about  . . . you guessed it - pride, including not being too proud to get saved - then prays.

I hate to say it preacher, but, when you were talking about how the TV reporter asked Tony why he didn't just do the thing you'd suggested months earlier, you sounded a little bit . . .

Spoiler

pleased with yourself.

Oh, and Gary, who could stand to learn about humility, was not there for this, since it was the morning he had his guest preaching gig.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by thoughtful
I had riffles. I am not proud of them.

[CTRLZero]

20 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

Is everybody ing? Have you ed several times already?

Definitely!  I wish I could read that newspaper article.  WTF!  It reminds me of Shiny Happy People with Michael Pearl demonstrating striking a child, and that other guy spanking a child.  Tossing a child is a biblical principle I have never encountered.    
No jail time?  I bet Pastor Tosser Tony was out preaching the next day.   

[thoughtful]

3 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

I wish I could read that newspaper article.

I tried to find the various articles Davis showed in his slides (there were a few), but, so far, haven't found any of them.

And I can't find what has happened to the child-flinging dickwad since his church closed in 1994. I hope he's been cleaning porta-potties for a living.

That's humbling.

 

[Xan]

Sorry, but what the everlasting fuck?  The guy just goes over, picks up a kid, and throws him across the room?  And he's doing this to show how Satan casts people into hell?  Then the ass ends up blaming the state's attorney because she's a woman and shouldn't be attacking a man.

I wish he'd done jail time.

 

 

[thoughtful]

On 9/11/2023 at 11:39 PM, Xan said:

Sorry, but what the everlasting fuck?  The guy just goes over, picks up a kid, and throws him across the room?  And he's doing this to show how Satan casts people into hell? 

He was preaching about how God would someday cast Satan into hell. So, in addition to the physical violence of this stupid stunt, he was pretending the little boy was Satan.

In church.

In front of the child's family and friends.

But, according to Davis, his big sin was pride - surprising a small child, picking him up, pretending the boy was the most evil being the kid's ever heard of, then tossing him eight feet was just a "dumb mistake," and it all would have just gone away if he hadn't been proud.

😡

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by thoughtful

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

He tells them that whenever they are tempted to think they'd never do something like that, they should say (he makes them read):
 There but for the grace of God go I

Well I'm sorry if I am insufferably smug but before this it would honestly never even have occurred to me that tossing a child across the room was even an option.

[thoughtful]

3 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Well I'm sorry if I am insufferably smug but before this it would honestly never even have occurred to me that tossing a child across the room was even an option.

Yeah, I guess we're both just full of pride.

But, "there but for the grace of having more than two brain cells and not being part of a child-abusing cult go I" is not very catchy.

 

[Xan]

17 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

He was preaching about how God would someday cast Satan into hell. So, in addition to the physical violence of this stupid stunt, he was pretending the little boy was Satan.

In church.

Thanks for clarifying.  I was so horrified that I wasn't able to absorb all the details.  And of course he used a child.  He could just grab some other man and pretend that the man was Satan.  Nope.  He needed someone much smaller who wouldn't fight him.  

I kind of wonder how many times he'd done that before this incident.  He seemed so stunned that he got reported that I imagine it was an attention getter at other sermons he'd given.

[thoughtful]

Becky and Gary were in church on the evening of 8/20. This was the day he went to Impact to preach in the morning. So, if they went home first, then back out again to Family Baptist:

That's not counting the trip to Impact in the morning, and the trip home from Family in the evening.

In the video, we see Becky staying seated when everyone gets up to greet one another, and just waiting for others to come to her. That's what she usually does now. Imagine how weak and tired she must be feeling.

We know Gary is an idiot - what are you thinking, Becky?

Dr. Davis preached again. Dare I watch?

Edited September 12, 2023 by thoughtful
riffle

[FiveAcres]

26 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

Becky and Gary were in church on the evening of 8/20. This was day he went to Impact to preach in the morning. So, if they went home first, then back out again to Family Baptist:

That's not counting the trip to Impact in the morning, and the trip home from Family in the evening.

In the video, we see Becky staying seated when everyone gets up to greet one another, and just waiting for others to come to her. That's what she usually does now. Imagine how weak and tired she must be feeling.

We know Gary is an idiot - what are you thinking, Becky?

Dr. Davis preached again. Dare I watch?

Gary is an idiot who may thinking that since she is sitting most of the time she shouldn't be tired. I think for a lot of conditions, short periods of light activity combined with short periods of rest is a lot better than sitting for five to six hours in a row.

 

[keepercjr]

19 hours ago, thoughtful said:

I hadn't looked at the Family Baptist Facebook page in a while, so I went back to where I left off checking to see if Gary and Becky made it to church, and if there was anything especially disgusting to report from Pastor Baker.

On the morning of 8/20, they had a guest preacher, Dr. S. M. Davis, who had lots of DVDs to sell.

https://www.solvefamilyproblems.org/category-s/1853.htm

  Reveal hidden contents

 

He does a longish, fast-talking sales pitch and rolls right from that into a very weird story. I think this has to be transcribed, starting with the the last few words of the sales pitch, because he really doesn't even stop to take a breath. He has a high-pitched, piercing voice, and an accent somewhere between Midwestern and Southern - hear Barney Fife in your head, then make it less intense, and you'll have it.

"Hopefully those can be a help and a blessing to ya years ago I received a telephone call from my friend Pastor Tony Deringer in Hillsboro Illinois he also gave me permission to share this story. He was concerned because of what happened at his church the previous Sunday November the  21st 1993. After the service ended, a first-time visitor at the church had called the child abuse hotline and reported something she saw the pastor do during his sermon. Now it was being investigated  and the local states states attorney was considering bringing felony charges against the pastor or child endangerment."

"Tony explained to me that he had been preaching about how - that God is someday going to cast Satan into hell, and to illustrate his point, he walked up from the pulpit, over to a front pew, where a man, his wife, and their eight-year-old were sitting. He then picked up eight-year-old Andrew and threw him about eight feet across the front of the church where the boy landed on his right side on the carpet."

"The boy's parents had a quote heated discussion the next day with their pastor about the incident but Tony talked to them and assured them that he meant the boy no harm that he wouldn't do it again, they were no longer upset. Tony explained to them that he had wrestled and roughhoused with the boy in the past, he expected the boy would land on his feet but that was not what happened."

Is everybody ing? Have you ed several times already?

Yeah - me, too.

"To let me know that the boy himself was not upset with him, Pastor Tony told me that later that same day Andrew and two of his buddies asked the pastor to throw them from the church's front porch out into the grass, which Pastor Tony wisely declined to do."

"A video camera was running at church that morning, recorded most of the incident and the police had taken the video as evidence of a possible crime. I listened to Tony, told him we'd all done something stupid some time, How many here have ever done somethin' stupid sometime? I prayed with him and wondered if it would all. Just. Blow. Away."

Then he immediately starts quoting bits of Proverbs that talk about how God hates pride.

He defines arrogancy as "pompous, showy, swelling pride."

Captions:

  Hide contents

Then, back to fragments from Proverbs - he makes them read 16:18 with him.

I assume he's planning to make a connection between the bizarre story and the bible verses at some point, but damn! Call me crazy, but I think child-tossing is a bigger problem than pride.

He goes on about how they must be truly humble, so their actions will be sincerely humble, and, of course, admits he has not fully eliminated his own pride, still needs to work on being humble - the usual disclaimers.

He speaks for another 30 minutes on pride and humility - under the spoiler for length.

  Reveal hidden contents

He talks about how pride hides and people don't even realize they have a pride problem. He makes passing reference to "people addicted to the gay lifestyle" now declaring they have pride. He makes them read this aloud:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

He tells another story - Pastor Don Green was a guest preacher somewhere, and, as the time for the service approached, realized he'd been thinking prideful thoughts about his abilities. He found a secluded room in the house where he was staying (he mentions that the owners had a cat), knelt and confessed his pride, but didn't feel like it was enough. So he prostrated himself on the floor and begged for God's forgiveness. "As he began t'stand up, he noticed something really strange. And I'll finish that story in a minute."

And he starts carrying on about pride again. So, I guess leaving stories hanging is this guy's gimmick. It's like the old radio soap operas. Did Pastor kid-tosser get in trouble? Did it have anything to do with pride? Was Pastor Prostrate covered in cat hair or catshit, or had the cat leapt up onto his back? Tune in next week, folks, and don't forget to buy White Lily flour!

He tells them that anger or lust in men stems from pride, gossip and contention and nagging in ladies stems from pride. Even sins are gendered in their world.

He says that disastrous decisions are made because people won't get help to do being afraid of being thought of as "dumb." He follows up this one glimmer of a direction that might be healthy by making them read this off of the screen:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

He chuckles and assures them he doesn't think they're dumb.

He says this sermon was "born" when he had a friend who was too proud to apologize. Wait- are we back to the kid-tosser? Nope - not yet.

He goes on and on and on about pride, and finishes the second story - Pastor Green had been "laying in cat stuff. Cat poo." He only had one tie with him so he went to church wearing "the cat poo tie, and the stain and the smell stayed where it was."

Sure, Jan.

He has made them read several things off of the screen, and now, as he discusses the sin of being proud of your social status or race, he has them read this:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

He goes on to warn against pride in artistic or athletic talent. Musicians, he tells us for a long, long time, are especially prone to this. And the sound system goes totally wacky during this part of the sermon.  

He tells them how the pride of Pharoah (which, like Gary, he pronounces fay-roe) caused him to send his men into the sea after Moses. "I love what God did next - it's amazing! Gohhhd. Reached down and ripped the wheels off of all their chariots."

He relishes describing that for a while, and describes lots of other prideful people in the bible.

Naaman was a male chauvinist, so God sent a slave girl to humble him. He asks his wife when he thinks he's been proud, and she tells him. "Then ah need to apologize for it! Now, I'm not to the end of my message but a few weeks later Pastor Tony called me again."

Oh, we're back to the first story - he just slipped back into it.

"The incident had not blown away. In fact, things had gotten worse. I drove to Hillsboro, went out to eat with my pastor friend, he updated me on what had been happening. He had been publicly defensive of what he had done in throwing eight-year-old Andrew and insisted he had done nothing wrong. He explained that the state's attorney was ay . . . lady. And he had heard that she had said something like 'That pastor needs a good lesson and I'm the one to teach it to him.'"

"And I looked across the table and said 'Brother Tony, what you did may not have been a crime, but it was a mistake. It was dumb. You shouldn't have done it. My suggestion is that you call a press conference, and publicly apologize to the boy, his family, and the community for what you did."

He goes on talking about the advice he gave Tony.

"I was honestly shocked at my friend's response at that point, as he looked across the table at me and he said, 'I didn't do anything wrong! If ah wanted to ah'd do the same thing again next Sunday! That state's attorney's just doin' this 'cause she's a lady and thinks she can get by with attacking a pastor who's a man!'"

"And ah looked back and said 'Dear brother, I think what I'm dealing with now is pride and it is a very dangerous thing for you in this situation.' Number three, pride takes glory that is due to God alone . . . "

And he starts talking about Nebuchadnezzar. Is there more to the kid-tossing pastor story?

He reviews his numbered points, makes them read from the screen a few more times, and goes on to his advice for how to find pride in yourself and getting rid of it. He does, at least, give lip service to men needing to apologize to women and children, but so much of the "be humble" stuff is aimed at keeping the downtrodden underfoot, that it always makes me uncomfortable.

This was especially chilling, not to mention not making a lick of sense:

  Hide contents

"December of 1993, a grand jury indicted my friend, Pastor Tony, with a felony charge of cruelty to children that was punishable by up to three years in prison and two misdemeanor charges of child endangerment and battery, each punishable by one year jail terms."

  Hide contents

"My family and I took Tony out to dinner and I counseled him again, he listened a little more but there was still a resistance. Then, the word spread nationwide, and threats came against him and his family."

He goes on about how they had to move, and describes the trial, in which the video was shown.

"The boy suffered a rug burn on his right elbow and a bruise on his right hip. The visitor who called the child abuse hotline testified in court: 'The thing I saw and still do was the fright on the little boy's face. He was as white as a sheet and looked very frightened. When Andrew landed, the whole congregation collectively cried "Oh!" Then the pastor snapped his fingers and said "It's a trick - he's not hurt - he's more scared than anything else. Don't show mercy - God will have no mercy on that day." And the boy with tears in his eyes got up and walked back to his seat.'"

"I sat in the courtroom and listened as ay humbled, and now humiliated, pastor testified on the stand and said, 'I made a mistake.' He spoke to the news media and said, 'I admit I did wrong. I don't think I'm a criminal - I'll leave it up to the jury.'"

He tells them how a TV reporter came up to them while they were waiting for a verdict, and asked the Pastor why he hadn't just called a press conference months earlier, to say what he just said on the stand, claiming it would have kept it from becoming such a big deal.

Pastor Tony was found guilty of misdemeanor child endangerment, sentenced to two years court supervision and had to do 200 hours of community service, undergo a psychological evaluation and pay court costs.

Davis told Pastor Tony that God had humbled him, and Tony admitted it was true. The church closed several months later. He makes them read the "pride goeth before destruction" verse again. He tells them to raise their hands if they could have done something as "dumb" as what Tony did, in fact, if they could have done exactly what Tony did.

He tells them that whenever they are tempted to think they'd never do something like that, they should say (he makes them read):
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

He goes on a bit more about  . . . you guessed it - pride, including not being too proud to get saved - then prays.

I hate to say it preacher, but, when you were talking about how the TV reporter asked Tony why he didn't just do the thing you'd suggested months earlier, you sounded a little bit . . .

  Reveal hidden contents

pleased with yourself.

Oh, and Gary, who could stand to learn about humility, was not there for this, since it was the morning he had his guest preaching gig.

 

 

Holy moly what a story.  And what an asshole that pastor was.  If he wasn't sorry for it, what the heck did he tell the parents to make them not upset at him anymore.  I am glad someone called the child abuse hotline.  That person took better care of that child in that moment than his own parents did.  And to think he was so full of himself that how dare a woman try to take him down..

7 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Becky and Gary were in church on the evening of 8/20. This was the day he went to Impact to preach in the morning. So, if they went home first, then back out again to Family Baptist:

That's not counting the trip to Impact in the morning, and the trip home from Family in the evening.

In the video, we see Becky staying seated when everyone gets up to greet one another, and just waiting for others to come to her. That's what she usually does now. Imagine how weak and tired she must be feeling.

We know Gary is an idiot - what are you thinking, Becky?

Dr. Davis preached again. Dare I watch?

Ugh.  I wouldn't even want to be in the car that long unless I was going somewhere to stay.  All this to feed her stupid husband's ego. 

[thoughtful]

I may have found Tony Dearinger (I found out that's the spelling) proud child-flinger, on Facebook. Nothing posted since 2017, and I couldn't find anything about what he did for a living after  losing his church in 1994.

https://www.facebook.com/tony.dearinger.9/

9 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

Gary is an idiot who may thinking that since she is sitting most of the time she shouldn't be tired. I think for a lot of conditions, short periods of light activity combined with short periods of rest is a lot better than sitting for five to six hours in a row.

I'm sure he thinks he's treating her like a queen. I would imagine it's also vital to have the choice to move or sit, to change positions, and especially to put her feet up. In the truck she's stuck in one position for long periods of time, and church isn't much better.

On 8/20, in the evening, Dr. Davis starts with a sales pitch - dude, you have the same audience you had in the morning. And again, he talks fast and elides from the sales pitch into his message. Hey, he has freebies!

"I brought some anger cards. Anger is like a fire breathing dragon some people will put that up on their refrigerator some children would like to take one you're welcome, as long as they last anybody's welcome to have one please take the catalogues and uh I would rather not take them back to Illinois with me so if you'd like to get one for somebody else you're welcome to do that as well evangelist Ken Gaub's life was so shaken by the following experience that he actually wrote a book entitled God's Got Your Number, he writes: do you believe that God not only loves you but knows where you are and what you're doing every minute of the day? I certainly do after an amazing experience I had several years ago."

Whew! Take a breath, fella.

He keeps rattling on, reading from the book. Gaub's story is that he was driving on I-75 with his family and stopped at a rest stop. His family went into a restaurant, but he decided he wanted to stretch his legs. He writes, "As I walked toward the Dairy Queen, feelings of self-pity enshrouded my mind." 

Buck up, Ken - Dairy Queen isn't the Ritz, but there's no reason for self-pity!  😁

A phone in a phone booth at a nearby gas station rang. Davis condescendingly explains what a phone booth was, for the "younger people." 🙄  Then he asks who remembers those days, and says their "dating themselves." At least he's an equal-opportunity annoyingly ageist tease.

Back to reading the book - Gaub was frustrated by the ringing phone that nobody answered. Finally, curiosity got the best of him, and he walked over, picked it up, and said hello. The long-distance operator said "Long-distance call for Ken Gaub."

Davis explains what person-to-person calls were, then goes back to reading. Gaub was, of course, totally taken aback, stammered in shock, wondered if he was on Candid Camera (that, Davis doesn't explain), as the operator kept asking for Ken Gaub. Finally, he said he was Ken Gaub, and heard a voice on the other end of the line say (and here I quote Davis):

"Yes, operator, that is him. That is Ken Gaub. Now before I read my scripture verse, there is one Sunday out of every year . . . " and he starts talking about Easter Sunday (aren't you supposed to call it Resurrection Sunday, brother?).

So he's doing his sermon sandwich routine, of telling half of a story, sliding right into his readings and message, and leaving the listeners hanging.

Well, two can play at that game!

I shall return.

Edited September 13, 2023 by thoughtful
missing word

[AmazonGrace]

Things that never happened:
 

Quote

 

Gaub was, of course, totally taken aback, stammered in shock, wondered if he was on Candid Camera (that, Davis doesn't explain), as the operator kept asking for Ken Gaub. Finally, he said he was Ken Gaub, and heard a voice on the other end of the line say (and here I quote Davis):

"Yes, operator, that is him. That is Ken Gaub.

 

Yes, Ken. I am calling you a liar.