Bro Gary Hawkins 23: Give Us the History

[AmazonGrace]

Any time that anyone clears out the random stuff drawer in the kitchen, it's a miracle

[Alisamer]

15 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Any time that anyone clears out the random stuff drawer in the kitchen, it's a miracle

You are most definitely not wrong. It was pretty miraculous that my ring was found after so long, also.

I just feel like if it was God directing things there, He'd have had us find it years ago when I was attending church all the time and prayed about finding it, not randomly 30 years later when it doesn't even really fit anymore and I'd given up, and would have more likely tried a "lost objects" spell than a prayer if I had thought about it.

In fact, now that I think about it. I think I DID at one point a year or two ago put out there in a kind of witchy sort of space that my class ring was lost and I wished I'd get it back someday.

OOoooOOOooh, spooky!

I still tend to think it was just coincidence maybe with a hint of luck. Or maybe some kind witch put it out in the universe that my ring should come back to me. I guess it could also have been God finally getting around to my request, I mean if He is an all powerful deity he must be busy. But really, I'm open to the possibility that something - God, whatever saint that is who finds things, a witchy spell, my own years of wishing - gathered up a sort of energy that started the process that led to my ring being found.

But what I KNOW happened? It likely fell off when I was washing dishes and reached in the drawer for a towel to dry them with, where it sifted to the bottom and sat there until it was emptied completely recently, because my mom finally decided she could part with the ancient threadbare ones because her nicer camper kitchen linens wouldn't fit in there otherwise.  

I will say that at least in the case of that, and of that strange phone call to the phone booth story, at least crediting God or spirits or spells or energy or whatever doesn't discredit the work of someone who actually did the thing. Like, it's annoying to me when Christians are all "oooh, God healed me!" when the fact is they went to the hospital and the doctors and medicine helped their body to heal. Like, maybe God did put a nudge in there or something. But it's not like they prayed and immediately jumped up perfectly healthy like the old televangelists used to have people pretend to do. They were helped by people with lots of education and experience, using medicines and technology developed by other people with plenty of education and experience. Thank God if you want to, but at least mention the people involved also!

[thoughtful]

22 hours ago, Xan said:

The problem is that these are just coincidences and not all coincidences are good.  There's the couple who are having a baby and, upon getting in the car, find that it won't start.  There's the engaged couple who discover one of them has cancer and dies before they even have a chance to marry.  There's the person who takes a once-in-a-lifetime vacation only to be swept away by a tsunami.  What were those?  SatanWinks?  

I used to be more of an agnostic but reading about fundies has pushed me toward atheism.  Attributing everything to the supernatural is mind-numbing.  If there does happen to be an organizing intelligence that controls the universe, I'm not seeing much evidence.

at the idea of SatanWinks - let's write a book, sell mugs and make a cottage industry out of that!

I've been in the "nothing supernatural" camp for many years now, and, every time I read or hear someone needing to twist life around to try to make it fit magical thinking, I am so happy I am free of that.

I agree with @AmazonGrace about all of the fallacies - that post was .

Believers, especially those who won't budge from fundamentalist thinking, will exhibit every fallacy, fantasy and illogical way of looking at the world that is possible - it's breathtaking, sometimes.

[thoughtful]

Laughing at myself - I was just listening to a discussion of the idea that nihilism is not necessarily a despairing, cynical attitude, but can be quite practical and pleasant. The person speaking was saying "if you believe that we're here because . . . " and hesitated.

My Everything's a Song Cue brain instantly made me remember all of the times in my childhood when we arrived somewhere in the car, and my brother and I would sing:

Spoiler

 

That explains my atheism! My older brother planted that song in my brain when I was very young, and the idea stuck!

😁

[thoughtful]

Becky posted:

Spoiler

 

[FiveAcres]

35 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

Becky posted:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I would have a lot more sympathy for this sentiment if their God wasn't the one doing the breaking. It's like oohing and aahing over a little girl who has smashed all her toys but still loves them.

 

[thoughtful]

A new comment (so far, the only comment) under Gary's Bosch-esque bossy TV post:

Besides the obvious prejudice and lack of self-awareness about his own religion (if he is of Gary's ilk), Robert does not seem to have noticed that the object speaking the "doctrine" is a television.

Were there televisions in Mohamed's day?

Ah, yes, I remember that famous hadith: Those people who change the channel when you are watching your favorite show will have the channel changed by Allah when they are watching their favorite show.

Edited September 23, 2023 by thoughtful
various errors

[thoughtful]

Becky and Gary were in church this morning.

Pastor Baker and some young adults (I'm guessing they are some of his eleven kids) sing  The Judgment. It's one of those arrangements with a soloist singing the lyrics, and everyone else "ooooh"ing in the background, then joining in with the lyrics on the refrain. The lead singer is over-amplified and not good. That's actually not usual for them - they can sing pretty well.

Spoiler

For reference, here are the Baker kids last Spring:

And here are the Bakers including parents, sons and daughters in law, and grandchildren:

When everyone gets up to walk around and greet others, Becky, as usual, stays in her seat. Oh, and I want to introduce you to someone. I feel like I know him, but realize I have never shown him to the rest of you. At this point in the service, there is a man who always faces the camera and waves at whoever is watching from home. FJers, meet Waving Guy:

Spoiler

Just another reminder that there are potentially decent, kind people being raised on this hateful stuff.

They show a video, and have a guest preacher from Teaching All Nations, a missionary group that purports to teach people to open a bible college in their own country. Hey, maybe that's why Marietta Bible College no longer gets many students.

Another special, a solo of Meanwhile, Back at the Cross, sung by Baker's son, Darick. Then his dad comes up and explains the song. 🙄

If I have the strength, I will listen to Baker's message and recap.

Edited September 24, 2023 by thoughtful
deleting something I'm not sure was correct

[thoughtful]

Gary actually posted something pleasant - he is grateful. Of course, he credits God, not the humans who actually did the work and paid the expenses involved. And he gets in a dig at store-bought food. But, for Gary, it's downright gracious.

Rhonda one-ups him, though.

Fresh milk? Does their host have a cow?

Spoiler

 

[AmazonGrace]

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

Spoiler

And he gets in a dig at store-bought food.

As well as the people who donated the subpar store-bought food that he has grifted before been forced to subsist on previously.

Earworm under the spoiler

Spoiler

OK folks if you have a farm E-I-E-I-O!
And on your farm if you have a cow, E-I-E-I-O!
you can feed Gary here and feed Gary there,
Here food, there food
Everywhere fresh food
OK folks if you have a farm E-I-E-I-O!

 

[thoughtful]

1 minute ago, AmazonGrace said:

As well as the people who donated the subpar store-bought food that he has grifted before been forced to subsist on previously.

When he was dieting, he mentioned people who hosted them who were ready with lots of fresh fruit for them (hint, hint). IIRC, he even expressed his desire for such things beforehand, at least once. He's such am entitled grifter.

I'm guessing it's just coincidence, but Becky's latest post, from a few days ago, was  about what people who go to food banks prefer. It's not original to her, it's a re-post, and I assumed it was just general information for people who give to food banks, not her expressing what she wants, but, as ever, who knows? Or maybe she's also feeling above it all now, too, since she is getting so much fresh stuff.

Quote

So, I spoke to people getting food at a food bank and here are some things I learned from those in need:

1. Everyone donates Kraft Mac and Cheese in the box. They can rarely use it because it needs milk and butter which is hard to get from regular food banks.

2. Boxed milk is a treasure, as kids need it for cereal which they also get a lot of.

3. Everyone donates pasta sauce and spaghetti noodles.

4. They cannot eat all the awesome canned veggies and soup unless you put a can opener in too or buy pop tops.

5. Oil is a luxury but needed for Rice a-Roni which they also get a lot of.

6. Spices or salt and pepper would be a real Christmas gift.

7. Tea bags and coffee make them feel like you care.

8. Sugar and flour are treats.

9. They fawn over fresh produce donated by farmers and grocery stores.

10. Seeds are cool in Spring and Summer because growing can be easy for some.

11. They rarely get fresh meat.

12. Tuna and crackers make a good lunch.

13. Hamburger Helper goes nowhere without ground beef.

14. They get lots of peanut butter and jelly but usually not sandwich bread.

15. Butter or margarine is nice too.

16. Eggs are a real commodity.

17. Cake mix and frosting makes it possible to make a child’s birthday cake.

18. Dishwashing detergent is very expensive and is always appreciated.

19. Feminine hygiene products are a luxury and women will cry over that.

20. Everyone loves Stove Top Stuffing.

 

[Xan]

As usual, I don't understand.  I get the fresh eggs part and the veggies from the garden but there are only so many chickens you can kill before you run into other problems.  (See:  fresh eggs)  Are they on a big farm with excess turkeys and ducks that can be slaughtered?  I would suppose someone is bringing them milk.  I'm not sure Becky is able to be up before the sun and milking the cows and no way would Gary be out there doing it.

Also, they can keep their fresh milk.  We had a cow when I was young and I hated milking it.  We just used the milk as it came out so no real straining.   It your glass of milk sat too long on the table, the cream would rise to the top.  And I'm not even going to talk about what the milk tasted like when the cow got into a patch of wild onions.  I am profoundly grateful to get my nice, pasteurized milk from the store now.

[thoughtful]

12 minutes ago, Xan said:

And I'm not even going to talk about what the milk tasted like when the cow got into a patch of wild onions.

I was a city kid and only drank store-bought milk, but I can remember milk that tasted of onions, way back when, and my mother explaining that the cows must have been grazing on wild onions.

[Alisamer]

I grew up on a dairy farm and we got store-bought milk.

From the company that bought our milk, so part of it was probably ours (dad was proud our milk was good enough quality for drinking, the milk from his buddy's farm wasn't as good and was used for cheese!), but processed and pasteurized and all that. We did, I think a couple times, get fresh milk if we were totally out of store bought and mom really needed some for something, but generally not.

Partly it was because you didn't go into the tank unless you absolutely had to, because everything had to be kept sterile in there. And if the tank got contaminated and you contaminated the whole truckload of milk, OUCH. Fines happen for that. But also there was the pasteurization and stuff. We did have a small tank you could milk a cow into separately, done mostly for cows with mastitis or taking medicine or otherwise not giving milk that was OK to be sold. So a couple times they milked one of the cows without any problems into that to give us milk to make butter with. 

We sold to Pet, when we had a dairy. 

I could maybe see Becky keeping chickens for eggs, and maybe having a small veggie patch. But despite his "country" demeanor I don't get the impression Gary is much of a farm boy no matter how much he wants to think he is. Preachers are "city folk" to farmers. Nice enough, but likely to not understand sometimes you have to miss church if that's when a cow is giving birth or something, and that milking doesn't wait until it's convenient, nor does harvesting. I can't see Gary out getting his hands dirty doing actual work. 

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

So, I spoke to people getting food at a food bank and here are some things I learned from those in need:

1. Everyone donates Kraft Mac and Cheese in the box. They can rarely use it because it needs milk and butter which is hard to get from regular food banks.

2. Boxed milk is a treasure, as kids need it for cereal which they also get a lot of.

3. Everyone donates pasta sauce and spaghetti noodles.

4. They cannot eat all the awesome canned veggies and soup unless you put a can opener in too or buy pop tops.

5. Oil is a luxury but needed for Rice a-Roni which they also get a lot of.

6. Spices or salt and pepper would be a real Christmas gift.

7. Tea bags and coffee make them feel like you care.

8. Sugar and flour are treats.

9. They fawn over fresh produce donated by farmers and grocery stores.

10. Seeds are cool in Spring and Summer because growing can be easy for some.

11. They rarely get fresh meat.

12. Tuna and crackers make a good lunch.

13. Hamburger Helper goes nowhere without ground beef.

14. They get lots of peanut butter and jelly but usually not sandwich bread.

15. Butter or margarine is nice too.

16. Eggs are a real commodity.

17. Cake mix and frosting makes it possible to make a child’s birthday cake.

18. Dishwashing detergent is very expensive and is always appreciated.

19. Feminine hygiene products are a luxury and women will cry over that.

20. Everyone loves Stove Top Stuffing.

I realize people who need food banks live in different conditions and have different needs...  But if somebody can't make canned soup because they don't have a can opener  how likely are they to have a cake pan for baking a birthday cake?

[thoughtful]

13 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I could maybe see Becky keeping chickens for eggs, and maybe having a small veggie patch. But despite his "country" demeanor I don't get the impression Gary is much of a farm boy no matter how much he wants to think he is

I agree that Gary plays up the farm boy act, and has never really lived it.

If he is telling the truth about the family, various members worked on tobacco farms and one of his grandmothers kept pigs (he talks about the stink when discussing the nativity story, and how disgusting their food is when telling the parable of the prodigal son). His father has talked about a vegetable garden in his sermons. But I don't think there were any actual farmers in the family.

There are ducks and chickens where he is living now, and he's referred to them as his ducks and chickens and posted video of the ducks. Who actually owns them, and who does the work, is unclear.

https://www.facebook.com/ghawkins38/posts/pfbid02EetXmveY2J92JdaFheSwKR1RzgegZ8tFwDqsQUzJsCwyX7p2mSXCRato7sNzxQqSl

[thoughtful]

I am listening to Pastor Baker's message from last Sunday morning. He warns them that this talk will be different, because he's not starting with a bible reading, then jokes that he gives that warning so much that he should probably just tell them when he's going to give a normal sermon.

He talks about inflation and world economics. He keeps listing the BRICS nations as "Brazil, Russia, India, China and South America.

I think you mean South Africa, oh great wise man of economics and world geography.

He asks what will happen if the dollar is no longer reserve currency, and says nobody knows, but "the predictions say America'll become a third world nation, like that."

Captions:

Spoiler

He goes on to talk about ads encouraging people to buy gold, FDR making it illegal for private citizens to own gold, and how the government could do that again. Then on to crypto, and how the government is planning their own digital currency, which would mean "they could control who could buy and sell. Ooh ooh ooh Revelation, wonder what that's building up to."

🙄

What if you invest your money in your business? Can the government confiscate your business? "No, it's it's America! Free nation, right? Government can't confiscate your business by the way, in a Communist nation, you don't own anything, they confiscate whatever they want for their own purpose, for their own use, you built it, you put your blood sweat and tears, you own it? Nope! Not today! The government came and took that."

He imitates someone answering him: "'Well, that's those countries - that could never happen in America.' Quote, from the federal government: the government can and will seize business property from its owners when that property is needed for public use."

Way to scare your already deluded congregation, Dave. He's talking about Eminent Domain (or, as the captions would have it, "imminent domain"). The government has to fairly compensate the owner, per the fifth amendment to the Constitution He briefly mumbles that fact, with a snide reference to what they "think is fair."

https://www.justice.gov/enrd/condemnation/land-acquisition-section/history-federal-use-eminent-domain

He goes on about retirement accounts and investments having gone down drastically in the last few years, and the craziness of the housing market, which I mostly skim through.

He even touches on the people who, somehow or other, actually do make lots of money, and, during this fast riff, throws in "Now you die. Now where does the money go?" He also throws in the possibility of the Rapture, just for good measure.

After you're dead, "your kid is going to blow it, the government's gonna take their part of it."

"Does God know anything about investing? He invented it."

And he finally reads, interrupting himself as he goes: "Lay." Long pause. "Not up for yourselves treasures on earth. What? What? Why? Where moth and rust doth corrupt. Hey, ya ever had anything that was worth something, and you went back, and it was ruined?"

He tells a story about a damaged house, then goes back and reads the part of the verse he's already read, and sort of spoonerizes the last consonant sounds in moth and rust:

Spoiler

And he finishes the verse: "Where thieves break through and steal" and goes on to yak about house title scams.

He goes on to verse 20, interrupting to make sure they know it's not about treasures for the church or the pastor, but for themselves, in heaven. Here's the verse:

Quote

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

"Somehow, what we give to God down here, God is putting it in a bank in heaven, and somehow, some way, we're gonna use that and need that and that's gonna matter somehow in heaven."

He says he doesn't understand it, but God said it, then goes on to point out that, if your money is in heaven, the government, rust, moth, thieves, inflation, etc. can't get it.

He describes compounds in foreign countries "like Nigeria and Philippines," that have cinder block walls and either broken glass or "Constantine wire" (he called it that twice) on the top. 

Do they use Constantine wire in the country of South America, Dave? I wonder if anyone corrected him after the service.

He says that many missionaries have had everything they owned stolen because they didn't have such a set-up, with a big dog, and warns them that our society will get like that, as well.

I like what the captions make of the word "missionaries:"

Spoiler

He tells some stupid jokes about the government being thieves, and keeps telling them that nobody can steal your money if it's in heaven.

He reads verse 21:

Quote

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

He starts in on how materials considered valuable on earth are used in heaven. They pave the streets with gold. Ooooh, Gary, your boyfriend said "streets," plural - do you still love him (Gary is adamant that it is only one street)?

They use pearls to make gates. Precious stones are used for foundations.

"So, financially, what are ya supposed to do? Put God first."

He asks them if they'd dine and dash, or steal a car. He asks "Whose air do you breathe? Whose food do you eat? Whose earth do you live on? God's."

He makes stupid jokes about wives and children possibly coming from "the dark side,"  hahahaha. 🙄But, of course, they came from God.

He tells them that God says every time they make a dollar, they should give God a dime, not because God needs it, but to remind them that all good things come from God. Not giving 10% to God, before paying for anything else in your life, means you're a thief.

He says that, at their church, they have a money-back guarantee, then makes these weird shit-eating grin poses (is he trying to look like a shady used-car salesman?):

Spoiler

He says that, at the end of the month, if anyone has any unpaid bills, the church will give them back their tithe. Then, of course, he jokes that they're not going back six years hahaha. He says "We believe the bible - God said 'Prove me.' We believe the bible - if you give a tithe, God's gonna bless you. We won't have to do that more than a month or two, and now we can keep all the money that you give us.

Another goofy pose:

Spoiler

I'm sure that, if asked, this shithead would condemn prosperity gospel loudly. This, somehow, is different, just as it is when other IFB preachers say it.

I wonder if anyone has ever asked for their tithe back.

 

Spoiler

So, after tithing, you can pay your bills, right? Nope.

"Do you believe God? Or are you a robber? Tithe first, then offerings. What is that? Missions, missionaries, supporting, helping, whether it's an offering when missionaries come by or giving to missions, we'll talk about that in a minute. And the other last giving is alms giving."

Of course, he covers the person who feels they don't have much left for themselves - he guilts them with the story of the widow's mites.

He makes sure they know how to give, and tells the J. C. Penney tithe story (supposedly, he tithed 10% even when he was poor, and, by the time he was old, he was tithing 90% because God had rewarded his tithing, and the 10% he kept in those days was more than the 90% he'd kept in his youth).

Baker repeats his main points a few more times, and reminds them that Jesus paid for their souls with "the most expensive thing ever on this world, his own blood," then repeats the idea that they will get a bonus when they look at their account in heaven, if they gave enough.

Then he prays, and his prayer is yet another repetition of this idea, as is his altar call.

He even slips another reference in, right before dismissal: "Dr John R. Rice is in heaven, the founder of the Sworda th'Lord. He used to preach, when he'd preach on this, he'd say, 'The tithe is the Lord's.' Amen - bible says that. Then he says, 'The wallet the tithe is in is the Lord's.' Amen. 'The pants the wallet is in is the Lord's.' Amen. 'And the man inside the pants is the Lord.' What does that mean? We don't own anything, we're a steward."

He goes on to say that we belong to the Lord. That would have worked better if you'd remembered to put the 's at the end of the sentence about the man in the pants, Dave. 

We get it, Dave - you want their money.

An ironic touch - he asks a congregant to pray and dismiss, and, just as the prayer finishes and the piano starts, he yells for them to stop. He forgot to take an offering for the visiting missionary.

The dismissal music is When the Roll is Called Up Yonder. I think it should have been one of these:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by thoughtful
punctuation

[Ozlsn]

5 hours ago, thoughtful said:

So, after tithing, you can pay your bills, right? Nope

This mob are nuts. Why aren't they quoting 2 Thessalonians at visiting "missionaries" and "preachers" the way they quote it at people* receiving government assistance?

I honestly don't get why they pay them, except as entertainers. They are, quite literally, preaching to the bored converted.

 *some people. Not people getting corporate bailouts or farmers of course.

[thoughtful]

Comments under Gary's latest post advertising the King James College:

Spoiler

That last comment is referring to this description:

A comment under last night's video from Family Baptist. I have no idea if it has anything to do with what was said in the service, but will give it a listen later on today:

Spoiler

 

[postscript]

Those goofy grin pictures would make great avatars. I may have to save them. 

Where is he preaching? A log cabin? The wall in back of him has an overly rustic feel. 

[Xan]

So Baker is saying that the congregation give tithes, then put something in the offering plate, and then do alms giving?  Plus, he wants extra for visiting missionaries.  He doesn't appear to be preaching in an affluent area.  Just how much money will be enough?  When Baker isn't preaching, does he hold down a job so he can give money to the Lord?

It's all about power and money.  Even in the little churches, the religious leaders want power and money.  

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

He tells them that God says every time they make a dollar, they should give God a dime, not because God needs it, but to remind them that all good things come from God. Not giving 10% to God, before paying for anything else in your life, means you're a thief.

If all good things come from God, that means God gave them the money to begin with, right?

He doesn't NEED it, but God wants to get 10 % of the money back because he's a greedy sort of gimme-gimme fella.

My question is, why doesn't God just keep the 10 % and give people 90% of the money?

It would be less trouble for everyone, and there would be fewer thieves.

[Alisamer]

23 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

If all good things come from God, that means God gave them the money to begin with, right?

He doesn't NEED it, but God wants to get 10 % of the money back because he's a greedy sort of gimme-gimme fella.

My question is, why doesn't God just keep the 10 % and give people 90% of the money?

It would be less trouble for everyone, and there would be fewer thieves.

As an element of this - if all things belong to God and were made by God, then why tithe? That thing you just bought at the store came from God, right? And the CEO whose wallet it ends up in was made by God, too, right? So every money you spend by definition belongs to God, as does whatever you bought with it, and whoever ends up with the money, and whatever they bought with it...

I get that they are going to be "It Bible" and therefore everyone must tithe 10% (to the church, I'm sure if you tried to offer it up directly to God you're probably a witch or something). And they always have stories about people who were struggling, but gave their tithe to the church anyway, and then were "blessed" somehow with money they didn't realize they would be getting. But I'm sure there are just as many stories they don't tell, of people who were struggling and gave to the church anyway and then had sleep for dinner that night. 

And of course, it has to be money. Giving your time doesn't count, giving to a charity that isn't the church doesn't count. Just the money.

It's been a zillion years since I was at a business meeting for a church other than the one I occasionally attend, so I'm not sure how it would work at these small churches. But at the one I have attended, every year there's a committee that sets up the budget and the budget must be approved by the congregation, and it's all laid out on paper and everyone gets a copy. Here's the pastor's salary, here's the church secretary's salary, here's what we pay the janitors, these are our projected utility costs, this is our projected costs for Sunday School supplies. This is what we'd like to give as a church minimum to missions, these are the projected costs of maintenance for the building, and this is what we expect to need financially for the next year. Here's the same list from last year showing the actual figures. Here's the amount of tithes we need per week to cover the budget, and here's what we receive on average. Last year we got a donation to the music ministry, this is what it was used for. This is how much money is left in each of the scholarship funds and this is how much was disbursed from each one last year. 

I would hope that all churches are as clear and open as that, but I suspect they likely aren't. My sister is on the finance committee and was the one to write the check for the purchase of the new church vans recently, but everything is done pretty openly. Any church member can ask about how money is being used. 

I'd be much more likely to be willing to give money to a church that is open about where the money goes. Because I know God's not literally collecting that money and piling it up for you in heaven. It seems like this dude wants the congregation to think that's what God's doing. 

[thoughtful]

2 hours ago, Xan said:

So Baker is saying that the congregation give tithes, then put something in the offering plate, and then do alms giving?  Plus, he wants extra for visiting missionaries.  He doesn't appear to be preaching in an affluent area.  Just how much money will be enough? 

I think there's no such thing as enough.

Baker sells his crap in the form of books and "life coaching," and he has run for office.

https://david-baker-6333.mykajabi.com/counselling-services?

https://mainstreetmediatn.com/articles/mainstreetmaury/county-mayor-candidate-david-baker-files-defamation-suit-against-opponent/

This is the other craptastic guy mentioned in that article - he formerly held the office Baker was running for, and is now in Congress:

Spoiler

https://ogles.house.gov/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHgGVJN79I8

They are scary, dishonest people.

Edited September 28, 2023 by thoughtful
fixing formatting

[thoughtful]

2 hours ago, postscript said:

Where is he preaching? A log cabin? The wall in back of him has an overly rustic feel. 

Here is a longer view - it's a rustic looking background for the pulpit in an otherwise very generic Baptist church (with arrow pointing to Becky and Gary in their preferred spot):

Spoiler

The tiny blond woman pounding on one of the pianos is the pastor's wife.

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

And of course, it has to be money. Giving your time doesn't count,

Based on the announcements I've heard at most of these churches, they are from the "why not both?" school of thought. Keeping the church grounds, cleaning the church, moving equipment, repairs, you name it - church members are expected to volunteer for all of that, as well.

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

I would hope that all churches are as clear and open as that, but I suspect they likely aren't.

I suspect that most of the IFB churches are not, and that many of them are flat-out grifting schemes.

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

Because I know God's not literally collecting that money and piling it up for you in heaven. It seems like this dude wants the congregation to think that's what God's doing. 

Yes, that is absolutely what he was saying - even by IFB grifting standards, it was bizarre.

I think it's close to what I've heard Gary and some other preachers say before - that heaven will provide all of your needs; food (with no preparation needed and no worries about calories), a healthy new body, a mansion, a robe, crowns to throw at Jesus' feet. 

But I've never heard about God's bank, earned interest (he asked them to imagine how much the widow's mites were worth now, with 2000 years of compounding interest), and a bonus of . . . I don't know - actual heavenly money of some sort?