Bro Gary Hawkins 23: Give Us the History

[Coconut Flan]

Continued from here:

 

[FiveAcres]

@thoughtful This is not snark. How do you stand listening to Bro Gary? The endless gish gallop, word salad, and free association of not really related ideas? 

I can barely stand to read your summaries of what he "preached" and can't imagine listening to the original.

 

[Xan]

34 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

@thoughtful This is not snark. How do you stand listening to Bro Gary? The endless gish gallop, word salad, and free association of not really related ideas? 

I can barely stand to read your summaries of what he "preached" and can't imagine listening to the original.

 

I think @thoughtful has a better ear (and a stronger stomach) for this than some of us do.  I'm grateful because there are still so many of these faux preachers around and we do need to know what they're saying to people.  For my part, I have trouble listening to Gary because he reminds me of my later father-in-law -- an ignorant bigot, a mean man, and a persistent god-botherer.  The man thought that "washed in the blood" meant he could get by with anything as long as he showed up at every church service.

I don't think of Gary as entertaining as much as I think of him as a specimen to be studied.  I continue to be puzzled by the number of people who are willing to attend his sermons more than once.

[AmazonGrace]

This seems to imply that every time a friendship cools down it was never true friendship to begin with, and if there's a quarrel it's always because the other person is a treacherous snake. It's never your fault because you hurt them.

[Mrs Ms]

6 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

This seems to imply that every time a friendship cools down it was never true friendship to begin with, and if there's a quarrel it's always because the other person is a treacherous snake. It's never your fault because you hurt them.

This is my teenager at the moment. 🤦‍♀️ Perfect behaviour from a Preacher 🙄

[thoughtful]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:59 AM, AmazonGrace said:

This seems to imply that every time a friendship cools down it was never true friendship to begin with, and if there's a quarrel it's always because the other person is a treacherous snake. It's never your fault because you hurt them.

 

On 9/4/2023 at 6:36 PM, Mrs Ms said:

This is my teenager at the moment. 🤦‍♀️ Perfect behaviour from a Preacher 🙄

And from a teen sorting things out and feeling hurt, it's normal behavior (I know - you don't need me to tell you that).

But from an adult, not so much. And from someone who puts themselves forward as both a leader and someone who is supposedly humbled before God, it's even more incongruous.

All of the people I've known who have that narcissistic streak have had this problem. In all of their stories, they are either the victim or the only person in the room with a brain in their head. Nothing is ever their fault, and they always have the correct answer.

In 30 years of knowing her, I never heard my personal Jill say the words "I'm sorry," and only remember her changing any behavior that bothered or hurt others when she wanted something (and can only think of a few examples of that).

I still have a vivid memory of walking through a parking lot to go into an antique store near the end of our friendship, listening to yet another story about how everyone at work was wrong, and hearing her say "Maybe it's me."

I almost collapsed from shock. But it was a fluke -she went right back to her "poor me, they're all wrong" story. I guess, even though she never apologized, she had learned a few phrases that people expected to hear when telling a story about being persecuted.

Gary can't even do that, of course.

[thoughtful]

Gary did a Facebook live:

Spoiler

He says "Rotate yer phone, sis," but it stays like that.

Gary's a hep cat, folks - he says, "All raht folks, it has been a  - as they say now been a minute since ah been ohn Facebook. Ah guess it wasssss uh - a few Sundays ago. It was uh - ah preached at a church over here - on the other sahda Nashville."

As usual, everything just runs together, like bad stream-of-consciousness verse. I will try to make paragraphs, just for readability.

In between tooth sucks, he tells us that they have moved to Tennessee and found a good church, and live "in a little town called Hohenwal', and if you wanna know how t'spell that yer guess as good as mahn, ah just haveta look it up on Google an' it he'ps me."

He says they moved there "back in February, ah guess."

He complains about the phone not rotating, says his wife needs a minute to fix it, and is about to turn it off, we hear Becky's voice briefly, then the camera turns:

Spoiler

Wheeeee!

While Becky is getting him turned, centered and in focus, Gary says the phone needs charging, greets someone who signs on, and give us another Garyism:

"Ah got a ah-phone, ah think ah made a mistake when ah got it, ah think ah gotta find ay - go back to a Andrew - Android."

We interrupt this recap for a public service announcement. Please do not - we repeat, do not - make a drinking game out of the words "King James" during this video or recap. You will be dead by the end. Now, back to your regularly scheduled Gary crap.

"Two reasons, tonaht, whah ah'm comin' on Facebook. Ah am part of ay college, an' it is a King - it's called King James Bahble  - Bahble College. And um the president is Brother Chris Howe, pasture of the Bethel Baptist Church and uh - what's the name of his town in New York? Oh mah goodness - somewhere in New York. He'll see this video, he'll prob'ly put it on there. 'N'ever'thing, but, uh, a college!"

"Ah think everybody should -  know a little bit about th'bahble amen? 'Specially the bahble, th'King James Bahble, only reason it's called th'King James Bahble -  College is 'cause we b'lieve th'King James an' you say 'What's th'textbook?' Th'King James - you don't have t'have no other books f'r reference an' there's Brother Chris now. He kin put - putcher town on there, Brother Chris - ah forgot what it was. Uh - 'n'everything, but uh, we started thissss, ah guess, last year mebbe year before ah don' know tahm flahs 'n' everything, but, uh, ah wanna eenkurridge ya, ah mean, you know, if you ay missionary or ay pasture an' you never went t'college or whatever you do not haveta leave yer town, uh - "

"We, uh - you kin stay raht where yer at, you kin pasture yer church, you kin be a missionary, you kin even be - yeah, King's Ferry, that's pretty bad, ain't it? Preached up there four fahve years in a row an' forgot, but King's Ferry, but uh you kin stay raht where yer at, you do not haveta go to a - you don't haveta leave an' go to a building, you kin s - y'know, we'll git th'paperwork sint to ya, yeah, this past January, yeah, OK - so it has been a little over a year then, uh - and so, or this comin' January ah guess'll be a year - "

For the record, Brother Chris' town is King Ferry - no s - and that's what he commented. But Gary. Also, starting at "this past January" above, Gary is answering what Chris has commented. The Facebook posts from this  institution of learning start in May 2022, so Gary's first estimation may have been closer to being correct.

https://www.facebook.com/p/King-James-Bible-College-100083403125762/

Maybe they didn't officially start "classes" (or get any students) until January 2023.

OK, back to Gary's video.

"Y'kin stay raht where yer at, y'kin focus raht where yer at, focus on yer ministry, 'n'everything, an' still do uh, still do uh, y'college raht there. We kin send th'paperwork to ya, an' y'can learn somethin' an' here's what uh - here's uh - "

He moves closer to the phone and stares intently - when he does this, I'm pretty sure he's trying to read comments. I don't see anything that would inspire what he says next, so the explanation is . . . Gary.

"Join what? Ah don't know. Here's what - did you wanna join that thing, bruh - uh, Brother Chris? Uh - here's the good thing - y'know, ya - even, even, yeer still in school, 9th grade, you kin start doin' this college now, and, um, possibly have it done by th'tahm y'get out of -  y'graduate school. 'N'everything an' so uh - you would be innerested, you kin contact us, message me, ah'll git ya in touch with Brother Chris, we'll gitcha th'information, we'll git yer email or snail mail, uh - ah figure most people we have - uh somebody th'other day that - wanted his done bah - bah snail mail, it's - 'at's an ol', ol' ways - "

After I transcribed the next part, I realized that is has nothing funny, offensive or otherwise all that interesting - it's just Gary going in circles about how to sign up. But, having done it already, I put it under a spoiler rather than just deleting it.
 

Spoiler

"But uh, but uh, y'know, We'd lahk t'inkerridge you, we'd lahk fer you t'help us t'share this, get this out here, ah know that ah'm -  ah'm not tryin' t'compete with anybody, any other colleges, ah ain't doin' that, but bein' that ah'm a parta this, the King James Bahble College, ah think ah oughta promote once in a whahl, an' ah wanna start doin' that mebbe once a month, have some different things t'say about it, 'n'everything -"

"Uh, yeah, there's th'email, th'email was just posted on there, so  you email us yer information or email us, you email us say 'OK ah'm innerested' y'know we give ya some more information, an' we kin git it to ya and uh you kin go t'work on it immediately an' work at yer pace - ah know that whenever y'go t'some colleges y'have t'have so much 'n' done in a certain tahm, uh , ahhh, everybody's differnt when it comes t'studyin' an' learnin', ah - ah tell people, ah do ketch ohn, ah just ketch on slower than other people do, an' so it would probably take me a little bit longer than somebody else, but we're not trahin' t'push you to git it all done in a year, two years, even four years, we're just trahin' t'get people t'learn - th'bahble.

More (oh, yes, there's much more!) later.

Edited September 7, 2023 by thoughtful
riffle

[AmazonGrace]

Says Matthew:

Spoiler

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. [12] Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

I think this mindset feeds the persecution complex sometimes. Like, Jesus says that  

IF: you are persecuted and people say nasty things about you

BECAUSE: you're righteous 

THEN:  -> you are blessed.

but it seems to me that sometimes there's this logical fallacy that turns this logic around.

IF:  People say nasty things about you

THEN: You are persecuted

AND:  -> you must be righteous

Then it's a good thing to be persecuted because it proves you're godly.  It's a good thing to present yourself as a victim because the devil attacks God's people.   Never mind the possibility  that people might say nasty things about you because they're true and you're a bad person...  

Or it could be that they're not persecuting you at all, they just don't want your religion to impinge upon their own freedoms.  But if you can frame it as persecution of a righteous person you win.

 

 

[thoughtful]

Gary continues his fine sales pitch for the Kollege of Biblical Knowledge.

He talks about a  preacher he knows who said "When we git t'heaven, or th'judgment ah guess would be the first place we're goin' - when we git there, we're gonna think we  had it all together but we didn't, an' so we better, uh, start studyin' uh - a whole lot. Studyin' th'worda God, ah have been dealin' with a coupla people th'last - coupla months - uh, they put on Facebook that losin' yer salvation is a heresy from uh hell, lemme just letya know something, when God said everlasting lahf, what he meant was everlastin' lahf. Amen?"

He says we should go back and read Brother Chris' comments on this video, then tries to read this one to us:

Bro Chris: We take verses in the bible and make them true or false, multiple choice, or fill in the blank.
Bro Gary version: We take th'verses in the bahble and make them turn true or false, multiple choices an' fill in the blanks.

Well, neither of you expressed that very well, guys.

"So an' an' it's not hard - ah mean we're not trahin' t'make it t'whrrr, you know, uh you kin be smart or you kin be - you -  you kin git - you kin be a genius! Any - y'know, anybody kin, anybo - y'know, y'think about th'King James Bahble, now ah know a lotta people have trouble with that an' ah gotta lotta people that ack lahk they wanna be mah friends or even foller me is what they ca - they're follerin' - they're follerers of mah page, an ah ain't figured out whah, because they wanna argue that th'King James Bahble is not the correct bahble an' an' an' God made all these other ones, well, tsk, no, ah ah jest tellya when ya start learnin' an' ah remember the prea - our pasture said -made a statement here - "

"Coupla weeks ago Winsdee naht we're goin' from - we just finished Ginisis or  - yeah, ah don' know ha - ah think it was in Ginisis way before we ever come here ah think it said three four coupla years goin' through Ginisis, an' everything."

I think he's saying that his current church has spent years just going through Genesis, but who knows?

"But, tsk, uh you kin take these verses an' make sure y'know 'em! Because uh - an' quit - an' an' if you'll steady 'em - "

Steady is how Gary says the word study.

"Oh an' y'know what ah was sayin' mah pastor said when you go t'you know an' you say 'Well, what's th'question, why ya how ya answer this, how ya fahnd this - in th'bahble?" An' he even preached a little bit on that yesterday mornin' all y'gotta do is open up th'worda God. Hey, y'wanna know 'bout yer marriage, y'wanna know what a husban' anna wahf s'posed t'be, a husban's s'posed t'be th'fizzions chapter fahve C'lossians's got it, ah mean, y'can go back to Ginisis chapter uh four 'r three it is ah b'lieve it is, or Gin - yeah, an' start t - actually, before that, Ginisis  chapter two, because Ginisis chapter three's whenever the butchu wanna fahnd out all these things of what the bahble says about marriage, it's in the bahble an' it has a lot t'say with it if you say uh 'What about bein' a member of a bahble-believin' church?'"

"You git in that bahble an' you fahnd it out, you will fahnd out that they - the, th'bahble is true, an' the answers  arrrre raht there!"

He goes on to say there's nothing wrong with other books and commentary, and that Brother Chris is not only the president of the college and a pastor, "but he's also, ah don't know, prob'ly ten or twelve books he's already wrote!"

He blathers about the tuition (he doesn't say how much it is, just that Brother Chris can tell them) and that each course has "fahve memory verses t'learn, so that y'know hey! Ya learnin' th'bahble an' all th'different kahndsa things an' so - it's a blessin'!"

"An' so ah wantchu to - if yer - wa - now, if yer in another college, we ain't tryin' t'grab you from nobody else, we're not prosellatin' from colleges an' we are waiving the restoration fee fer th'new students, so hey! 'Ere y'go, ya just saved thirty or forty dollars raht there bah just uh restrin' now - uh, bein' a new student an' everything an' so uh - "

Prosselatin', restoration fee and restrin' - more to add to the Garyism list.

"But just think about it - the King Jame Bahble College, help us share this video, help us git it out there, uh - we gohn git rich? No. Ah way far from that, ah mean it's just so much - it is $30 per course, we can do - budget prahcing it needed. So there ya go - we're not - we're j- we're not trahin' t'make no money, we're just trahin' t'help people learn th'King James Bahble . . . "

He goes on repetitively for a while, then takes a nasty turn, as is his wont.

"As ah travel, and especially on Facebook, ah'manna tell you, ah'manna tell you, you better be careful, ah wadn't gonna make this video this long, 'cause ah got one other thing ah want to uh discuss about or whatever - 'preciate that, Brother John - 'n' everything, but you kin become a yo-yo's what ah call 'em."

He goes on with one of his "ah'm not gonna mention the preacher, ah'm not gonna mention the church" stories. It's one I haven't heard in a long time, about meeting a young couple at a church where he was guest preaching, who he thought were "so in love with the Lord."

The wife mentioned where they would be going to church during their vacation, and Gary warned them that "they believe in losin' yer salvation. And she looked at me and she said 'And so do we.'"

He tells us how the pastor tried his best to help these people, for about three months, "because most people wanna say that Judas was saved, and lost it, uh, David lost it, an' ohn an' ohn an' everything an' so, uh, tsk, uh, y'better be keerful who ya listen to."

I suppose that pointing out that David pre-dated Jesus wouldn't make a dent in Gary's beliefs.

Still more about the King James Bible follows, and more promotion of the school. He leans in to the camera and mumbles something about trying to put some information on there, which, as far as I can see, he doesn't do.

Then, "OK! Number two!"

I'll get to Gary's number two, you should pardon the expression, later. This is already very long, and I need a break.

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by thoughtful
riffle

[Alisamer]

So, the King James Bible - which is made up of a compilation of many previous translations of many different sets of writings, which until the late 1800s included books I'm positive Gary's doesn't have, which has been revised multiple times starting within 5 years of it's first printing, somehow says within it that that particular version is the true only legit version of the Bible? 

I'm confused, naturally. I know they'd just say "it was inspired by God" or something about God using those particular people to make sure it was right and correct, but there has been revision after revision through the centuries. Including stuff like this:

Quote

Ezekiel 24: 7

KJV Bibles of 1611 unto the 1770’s:  poured it upon the ground

KJV Bibles of the 1770’s unto Today: poured it not upon the ground

which can completely change meanings. 

And if it was "God-breathed" then why is it OK for the current version Bro Gary uses to leave out many whole books that were in the original - and which King Jimmy himself made it illegal to print that Bible version without? 

Like, why would God choose that? To say this one version is right always and forever, completely ignoring the fact that language changes, cultures change, and that there are many other languages on the planet? But simultaneously God is totally OK with people 250 years later leaving out the apocrypha and He apparently allowed some errors to slip through in the original printings?

Like I'm genuinely confused at how this belief not only came about, but survives so strongly. I get that every generation of fundies seem to think the rapture is nigh and they'll be the last ones. But now, the world has changed SO much since 1611, in so many ways... to still see that version, after centuries of revisions and with like 14 books removed from it, as the one and only true word of God? Even after older documents have been found from nearer to Jesus' time, even after language has changed so much that it's difficult to parse much of the meaning, even with many highly educated scholars working from better sources have created more accurate translations? It's nonsensical. 

I know Gary just believes what he's been told, so I'm not surprised about him. But surely there are other fundie preachers who are interested and dedicated enough to have done some reading and research and been like - "Hey, wait a minute..."

[thoughtful]

20 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Like I'm genuinely confused at how this belief not only came about, but survives so strongly. I get that every generation of fundies seem to think the rapture is nigh and they'll be the last ones.

It is bizarre. The only thing that keeps me from being totally baffled by it is the fact that I've stopped being baffled by anything humans can do or believe, as individuals or in large groups.

22 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

But surely there are other fundie preachers who are interested and dedicated enough to have done some reading and research and been like - "Hey, wait a minute...

I know there are some that have gone to complete disbelief and deconstruction, once they really read through the bible or went to seminary. I would imagine there are some who have changed to a more open-minded or historically-based version of Christianity.

I always wonder about pastors who feel trapped because they are still depending on preaching this stuff to survive, and whether there are any still-in-the-closet IFB guys in the Clergy Project.

[Xan]

I think once you start questioning you stop being fundy.  Fundamentalism is all about never questioning the Bible or the preachers or the male heads of the households.  

The puzzling part to me is that they latched onto the 1611 version.  There are five King James versions -- 1611, 1629, 1638, 1762, and 1769.  Somehow, the first one is the only one that they think is God's inerrant word.  Was that because it was the most confusing?  I'm almost surprised that they didn't stick with Vulgate version since they could be sure that no one would understand the Latin.

[thoughtful]

Let's find out what else Gary wanted to discuss on his video, shall we?

'We came offa th'road ummmm - November of last year, 'zat raht Becky? Ummm, to git some things settled an' straightened out, an' then, in the midst of alla that - get some rest one thing - y'know, bein' in the ministry is - can be tough an' hard an - uh lonely sometahm."

My heart bleeds for you, Gary.

He blathers about a missionary who was in church the day before whose wife has to stay with her bedridden mother, and repeats that "bein' in the ministry can be lonely. A pastor kin be lonely because, somtahms, the members are not on board."

After some more about men of God being lonely, he returns to talking about their coming off of the road. He says that Becky was tested for various things - he mentions MS and seizures, and that she's now on medication for her migraines.

He stumbles about, flinging out sentence fragments about how they talked and prayed about going back out on the road, part time, and goes over the same plan, as far as I can tell, as he posted.

Here's something new - he says "Ah'm startin' a new job, in the mornin', an' ah gotta get mah foot in the door an' everything 'cause they was lookin' for ay full-tahm an' ay part-tahm help, an' so raht now ah'm goin' in as full-tahm because ah wanna git settled in an' then some tahm in March or April ah will have t'set down an' talk t'them about bein' part tahm. And everything an' so raht now we're gonna start goin' out unless we kin drahve within a hour or two - or me - ah wanna say, um as much as mah wahf would love to, ah'm not sure that she would be able to travel - tsk - very much."

He goes on to describe how hard it is for Becky to travel the 45 minutes to church, twice on Sundays, and sit in the service. "We had a missionary - an' we're not sayin' anything bad, we - was  a little bit longer - longer in church last night an' so today she has lit'rilly just been wore out."

He tells them about the tent, and how he might fly instead of driving, so he won't be "wore out" from driving long distances. He asks for prayers. He says he prefers small churches.

"Ah'm not hesitant t'go into a church about a thousand people. Uh, ah would prob'ly have a heart attack when ah got behahnd the pulpit but at least ah'd go to heaven enjoyin' what ah'm doin' amen?"

He returns to the subject of Becky's health, asks for prayers, and says "She had somethin' scheduled an' - it just didn't work out this tahm, an' so we're workin' on towards the first of th'year.  And um Lord'll work that out in his tahm an' everything, we have - we have - we're having t'learn that it's not on our tahm it's on God's tahm."

I have no idea what he's talking about - maybe it is a surgery or a new treatment.

He yammers on about doing things on the Lord's time, then reminds them about the college again, and how Becky isn't coming on the road with him, and does his faux-modest bit about how he won't be singing because it would scare people off, and his preaching is bad enough.

He says "That'll be  a little bit of a downfall." I think he means a bit of a loss or sadness (would Gary have ever heard the word "downer?"), and is talking about not having Becky there to play the piano. He says they'll have to just sing congregational songs.

A bit about the upcoming end times, then "Gary Hawkins, outta Family Baptist Church,  Columbia Tinnissee, tsk, wanna be a he'p to ya, 'preciate ya, thank ya for yer tahm, may God bless ya, an' hope every wonna ya have a good naht t'naht. Take - have - take care - see ya soon."

It sounds like the end of a down-home Christmas special from 1962.

If I am understanding Gary's plan correctly:

 - Gary has a new job that hadn't started yet when he made this video - whether it started last Tuesday, the day after he made this video, or he was just saying that he has to get used to early mornings, I am not sure.

- he is assuming he will keep this job through the fall and winter    and then talk to them about taking a week off each month to go on the road and preach.

- until then, he is only doing occasional gigs nearby.

Good luck with that, Gary.

I wonder if he got fired from collecting trash, or quit.

[Xan]

I wonder if Becky had more tests scheduled but Gary's loss of his job meant that there's a gap in their insurance coverage.  She'd need an MRI to get an accurate diagnosis of multiple sclerosis and those are expensive.

I'm also a little surprised that someone of Gary's mental capabilities and dislike of regular, physical labor is able to get jobs so quickly.  I'm guessing that the foul language of his fellow garbagemen must have finally caused him to quit.  I just hope this time he gets a woman boss.

I'm loving the Gary dialect you're doing, @thoughtful.  I know it's not easy.  Let us know if you get bogged down and need some rescue ferrets.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Xan

[thoughtful]

Comments under Gary's video:

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

?

 

 

Ginger, having caught Gary doing a live, expresses her priorities, which I prefer to Gary's:

Spoiler

Also, the men's home needs fridges:

Quote

Onesimus House has an Urgent Prayer Request. We need a couple of Refrigerators for the home because we have one that broke down and one that is slowly breaking down. In a home full of guys, that equates to a lot of food storage and ruined food. If you know of a way to bless us, please reach out and we Thank You all!!!

 

[FiveAcres]

Despite what I suspect are her horrific beliefs, and her questionable life choices, I feel sorry for Becky if she is exhausted the next day by ninety minutes in the car and however many hours their tedious church meeting takes. 

[Joyster]

“she doing good” Really, Gary? According to your sister, your momma hasn’t walked in 3-4 months and is in rehab. Your sister is encouraging others to send cards of encouragement and to keep praying. Whatever; I already know the KJB College and your travel “ministry” are more important, and I should be impressed that Becky got a mention.

I do sometimes feel sorry for Becky, and I have to remember she CHOSE this thing called Gary. She has brains and career training. She had kids she loved. Yet, she went off and married the Andrew phone idiot. Somebody asked if Becky was fundy before Gary. Her ex used to have really old pictures of them as a family together on FB; he has since ditched the ones with Becky in them. One was at theme park and Becky and the girls were all dressed in long skirts so I believe she was. All the other pictures of the girls in the Becky era on his Facebook had them wearing dresses and skirts. I wonder about Becky’s upbringing. I’m sure her divorce caused a lot of emotional damage. I often wonder if she married Gary because what you see is what you get, and there’s no way he would ever turn out to be gay.

The men’s home got two working refrigerators for the 16 hungry men. That got a thumbs up by Gary, but his sister posting his momma standing for the first time got nothing from him.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Joyster

[Alisamer]

3 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Onesimus

I’m sure there must be some meaning to this but all I see there is the name of a probably awful Transformers leader. Onesimus Prime, theocratic leader of Cybertron. 

[thoughtful]

4 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

Despite what I suspect are her horrific beliefs, and her questionable life choices, I feel sorry for Becky if she is exhausted the next day by ninety minutes in the car and however many hours their tedious church meeting takes. 

That's three hours in the car on Sundays - it's 45 minutes each way, and they go twice.

And I wouldn't wish what Becky's going through on anyone, because I wouldn't wish that on . . . anyone (although my ethics about such things are being tested by Donald Jessica Trump). But she is hateful and has done a lot of damage.

3 hours ago, Joyster said:

“she doing good” Really, Gary? According to your sister, your momma hasn’t walked in 3-4 months and is in rehab.

Thanks for that update. Gary is hyper-focused on what interests Gary.

3 hours ago, Joyster said:

I wonder about Becky’s upbringing.

Me, too. I also wonder if she's ever in contact with her sisters - she never mentions them, as far as I've seen.

The only things I've ever found on her family are her paternal grandmother's obituary (she died on the same day as Burt Reynolds, and Gary has been disgusted ever since by the comments people made about her riding in a car with him in heaven):

https://www.taylorfuneralhomeinc.com/obituary/bonnie-drake

Her parents' 50th anniversary:

https://www.newsandsentinel.com/lifestyles/anniversaries/2017/09/drake/

Her Mom appears to be wearing slacks in the picture. Baptist churches are listed in both announcements, but I don't know if any are IFB fundy.

Becky's mom has a Facebook page, but no posts. She has three of the four Isaacs grandchildren, and Gary's daughter Michaela among her friend list, but not Becky or Gary.

On 9/4/2023 at 6:23 AM, FiveAcres said:

@thoughtful This is not snark. How do you stand listening to Bro Gary? The endless gish gallop, word salad, and free association of not really related ideas? 

I can barely stand to read your summaries of what he "preached" and can't imagine listening to the original.

 

I like the challenge. For all that he's so repulsive, the timbre of Gary's voice doesn't bother me as much as Jill's does.

And I continue to find the weirdness of his fragmented bits of thought fascinating, in a horrible way. At this point I generally can tell what he is thinking of when he barks out a bunch of fragments and doesn't finish any of them. It's like I can hear the gears grinding as he starts to say something, thinks better of it, and veers off into another direction, over and over.

On 9/4/2023 at 7:04 AM, Xan said:

I think @thoughtful has a better ear (and a stronger stomach) for this than some of us do.  I'm grateful because there are still so many of these faux preachers around and we do need to know what they're saying to people. 

Thanks. I do like the idea of exposing the fact that there are people this bad out there (not just Gary, but the pastors and members of the churches he visits), turning my country into a cesspool.

On 9/4/2023 at 7:04 AM, Xan said:

I don't think of Gary as entertaining as much as I think of him as a specimen to be studied.

I think of him as both. He is heinous. But his stupidity and weird mind lead to a lot of funny turns of phrase.

When we found out about his conviction (not the faith one, the legal one), some people noped out, and said this isn't funny any more. It was even in a thread title. I understand why they did, but, to me, it was just another not-surprising fact about him.

At the risk of sounding self-righteous, I wouldn't mock a person who wasn't horrible. I wouldn't be on a snark site mocking people just for the way they dress, talk or look, or their choices of entertainment.

I think these people are dangerous and disgusting, It's just that I have the kind of mind that can see the humor in some of their behavior, or use humor to mock them. And their being so awful is a kind of imprimatur for making fun of them.

[Alisamer]

I think it must be telling that in Tennessee, where there are churches literally lining the streets of every small town and dotted around throughout the countryside all over the place, they have to drive 45 minutes to get to a church that is apparently hateful enough for them. I wonder how that worked out - did they find a place to live and then go looking for a church that meets their standards and would let Gary preach sometimes? Or did they know which church they were going to attend, and then had to look in an ever-widening circle to find a place where someone would let them move in with them?

Gary says he prefers small churches. I think maybe he (or Becky, who despite being terrible and making terrible choices at least seems to have some brain function) might ought to stop for a second and think about WHY those churches are so small. And why there are a zillion tiny ones everywhere.

I grew up in one of those small churches that split off from a bigger church at some point, but despite the occasional fire and brimstone preaching (I honestly don't remember much of it, I spent the service completely zoned out for the most part - making sure my sisters weren't disruptive and dad didn't fall asleep and snore) I do remember that Sunday School, and VBS, and even some of the revivals taught about Jesus being loving and welcoming to everyone. And here Gary and Becky are driving 45 minutes to attend a church that clearly is combative to any and all differences in belief. 

Like that thing about whether you can lose your salvation or not. I get that as a church, that's a big deal theologically. But what does it matter what an individual person believes about it? If they aren't teaching it or pushing it on others, who cares? It's a squirrely concept anyway, IMO. Since Baptists have no concept of purgatory or anything like that, it is hard to swallow the idea that say, Dennis Rader (the BTK killer), could be "saved" as a child or young adult and then go on to be a heinously sadistic serial killer and still be "saved". 

Rader was Lutheran, not Baptist, so probably not "the right kind of saved" for Gary and his people. But still - he was church council president, and that's how he was discovered, by sending taunting letters to the police via the media on a floppy disk that had been previously used for something church related and which still held the metadata. 

Still. Why would one or two people, just members of the church, believing something a little different result in months of counseling and then being used as an example in sermons? These churches are tiny in part because anyone who doesn't 100% go along with the pastor is going to be counseled, likely shamed, probably inferred that they are being misled by satan, and if they won't toe the line eventually encouraged to leave the church.

[thoughtful]

On 9/4/2023 at 6:23 AM, FiveAcres said:

@thoughtful This is not snark. How do you stand listening to Bro Gary? The endless gish gallop, word salad, and free association of not really related ideas? 

I forgot to address a part of this.

I don't think Gary is capable of purposely applying a gish gallop - he just seems unable to make a point and end a sentence (except with the occasional amen).

Also, Gary is alone addressing people when he has his verbal diarrhea, not having a discussion. So he has no need to keep talking to not let someone else get a word in edgewise, or give them too many points to answer.

So I don't think his long zigzag rants qualify as gish gallops, just strings of sounds that fall out of his mouth as he tries to go in too many directions at once. The only person he's overwhelming and distracting is himself!

Now I'm curious about what he's like when discussing things with other people, who expect to be able to speak, and even have the other person listen. I bet it's a disaster.

For anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about:

https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/

I, old movie buff that I am, was very disappointed when I found out it had nothing to do with Lillian or Dorothy on a horse.  😁 🎥

 

[FiveAcres]

20 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

For anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about:

https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/

 

 

You are right: I shouldn't have conflated Bro Gary's inability to keep to the point with the debating technique known as the gish gallop. (Can you imagine what he would be like in a debate?)

[AmazonGrace]

Well I think he would win every debate because it is impossible for anyone else to refute streams of consciousness that they can't follow along, and because he can shut down every avenue he doesn't like by waving it bible.

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Well I think he would win every debate because it is impossible for anyone else to refute streams of consciousness that they can't follow along, and because he can shut down every avenue he doesn't like by waving it bible.

I think he's the original model for the chess-playing pigeon - he's especially good at the puffed-up strutting part.

His word coleslaw is the most chopped-up on the planet, and, somehow, he walks away thinking he said something profound.

[thoughtful]

Becky posted:

 

Always be polite and say thank you when someone's blood washes away your sin!