Carlin and Evan 13: Living on SM Income

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Yeah I think that's just Evan being more chill or whatever.

Do we actually know how fundie Evan was raised? It's been too long for me to remember. But his family has always seemed more towards the normal end of the conservative Christian scale. He worked regular job before marriage and appears to have a non thoughts and prayers approach to health care. 

Also I'm not surprised he helps with housework. His wife, who he seems to adore, has had a major illness for over a year and he's stepped up to take care of her completely. And I think they once said Carlin (or was it Evan?) Is a neat freak. Weren't they the ones who took down xmas tree really fast because they didn't like the mess/disruption? It may be that they both hate disorder.

Plus their house is mostly empty space, they don't seem to cook, and are rarely home. How dirty can it be compared to regular people?

I'm doubting Evan really did all that much housework because of those factors.

[Expectopatronus]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:12 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

If we want to get technical, what’s safest is not going anywhere in a car with your kid. We rarely went anywhere in our car when my kids were small. I was a SAHM and we could actually walk a lot of places. So I guess we get to be the smuggest of all. But Oh no! We turned our kids forward around 18-24 months because of puking and meltdowns in the car for those few times we did drive anywhere. Sorry but this topic makes me roll my eyes pretty hard. If your kid is properly fastened into their car seat whether forward or backward, they are about a million times safer than not being restrained at all. The children who went over a cliff a few months ago in a Tesla were in forward facing car seats and they walked away with minor injuries. Buckle your kids up in their proper car seats. Decide if forward facing or back facing is right for you and don’t judge others who choose differently. I swear there’s always some way you can judge someone’s parenting. 

I flipped my kid at 2.5 years. I would have preferred to keep her rear facing longer but she had figured out how to Houdini her way out of the harness and I needed to be able to see what she was doing. I probably could have flipped her back when the weather cooled off and she was back in jackets but the front facing did the trick and she stopped shoulder rolling her way out. Now I don’t have a choice; a vole destroyed her convertible carseat and I replaced it with a much cheaper forward facing to booster seat. Totally agree with your stance; if we all canned the mommy shaming about these things life would be much simpler. 
That said, I have been guilty of judging parents who hand their under two year olds Pepsi, iced coffee or Red Bull. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

I flipped my kid at 2.5 years. I would have preferred to keep her rear facing longer but she had figured out how to Houdini her way out of the harness and I needed to be able to see what she was doing. I probably could have flipped her back when the weather cooled off and she was back in jackets but the front facing did the trick and she stopped shoulder rolling her way out. Now I don’t have a choice; a vole destroyed her convertible carseat and I replaced it with a much cheaper forward facing to booster seat. Totally agree with your stance; if we all canned the mommy shaming about these things life would be much simpler. 
That said, I have been guilty of judging parents who hand their under two year olds Pepsi, iced coffee or Red Bull. 

As I’ve gotten older, I judge parenting choices less and less because I see how poverty can have a major influence on parenting. That’s why I can’t wrap my head around fundies who CHOOSE to never use birth control. So they end up with more children they can afford and they are pretty much choosing poverty. Most people in the US who live in poverty don’t choose it. Why would anyone choose it?! It just baffles me! 

[SassyPants]

My daughter and her family live in SA. When my GD was born, there were no car seat rules in their country as not many people had cars ( as compared to the population). There are a lot more cars today, but only passengers seated in the front must be restrained. Oh boy, when my GD first came here to visit and had to be restrained in a car seat, it was awful. My SIL would always just take her out. He could not understand how a screaming infant/ toddler who would then breath hold was any safer strapped down. And that’s without considering the driver. My GD has been out of a booster in her country for a couple of years. When she comes here she knows the rules. She just turned 9 but is on the smaller side. 

[gobucks]

8 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Yeah I think that's just Evan being more chill or whatever.

And I think they once said Carlin (or was it Evan?) Is a neat freak. Weren't they the ones who took down xmas tree really fast because they didn't like the mess/disruption? 

They said Carlin is more neat and organized. 

[Expectopatronus]

12 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

As I’ve gotten older, I judge parenting choices less and less because I see how poverty can have a major influence on parenting. That’s why I can’t wrap my head around fundies who CHOOSE to never use birth control. So they end up with more children they can afford and they are pretty much choosing poverty. Most people in the US who live in poverty don’t choose it. Why would anyone choose it?! It just baffles me! 

I think a lot of boils down to we do what we know. I’ve had adult clients talk about how hard it is to go to work every day because they grew up with parents who didn’t work and grandparents who didn’t work. Being the first to get off of welfare is huge and hard because it is the opposite of what they know. For so many of the gen 2 or 3 Fundies, having eleventy kids is what they know and therefore in their comfort zone. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

I think a lot of boils down to we do what we know. I’ve had adult clients talk about how hard it is to go to work every day because they grew up with parents who didn’t work and grandparents who didn’t work. Being the first to get off of welfare is huge and hard because it is the opposite of what they know. For so many of the gen 2 or 3 Fundies, having eleventy kids is what they know and therefore in their comfort zone. 

But that’s totally untrue for so many fundies we talK about on FJ. 
Jim Bob, Michelle, Gil, Kelly, Steve and zoo Anderson, Braggie, JillRod and David, the Mortons, the Arndts, the Jeubs, the Maxwells didn’t come from quiverful families. They chose it for their own family even though they didn’t grow up in it. I think it’s entitled and privileged to grow up in a comfortable middle class type family with a manageable amount of kids and to force a much more difficult life on your kids. And watch, now many of these kids who grew up in huge quiverful homes will have way less children than their parents. Because they experienced how hard it was to grow up that way. Sure some will go quiverful. But I think most won’t. 

[just_ordinary]

14 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

As I’ve gotten older, I judge parenting choices less and less because I see how poverty can have a major influence on parenting. That’s why I can’t wrap my head around fundies who CHOOSE to never use birth control. So they end up with more children they can afford and they are pretty much choosing poverty. Most people in the US who live in poverty don’t choose it. Why would anyone choose it?! It just baffles me! 

Part of the problem might be the romanticised view on poverty in Christianity. Hell, we have mendicant orders. Jesus and his followers were mostly poor. He especially helped poor people. There is a slightly snobbish attitude against rich people in the new testament. Being poor and working you way up is the way not living comfortably start to finish. It’s a weird dissonance between the idea that the more godly you are the more successful AND that being poor makes you more like Jesus. 

[SassyPants]

12 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

But that’s totally untrue for so many fundies we talK about on FJ. 
Jim Bob, Michelle, Gil, Kelly, Steve and zoo Anderson, Braggie, JillRod and David, the Mortons, the Arndts, the Jeubs, the Maxwells didn’t come from quiverful families. They chose it for their own family even though they didn’t grow up in it. I think it’s entitled and privileged to grow up in a comfortable middle class type family with a manageable amount of kids and to force a much more difficult life on your kids. And watch, now many of these kids who grew up in huge quiverful homes will have way less children than their parents. Because they experienced how hard it was to grow up that way. Sure some will go quiverful. But I think most won’t. 

I have attended 2 types of churches in my life. One, the RC Church, is anti birth control, although most members do not follow that tenet. The leaders of the RC Church are single men, so they have zero, adult experiences with family life and uncontrolled reproduction. Gothard was a single man; no quiverful to support and raise. I wonder if other quiverful denominations have leaders, preachers etc. who DO have many, many children and actually live the life they are encouraging/demanding others live? Is their any successful leading by example among these groups?

Edited May 29, 2023 by SassyPants

[JermajestyDuggar]

16 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I have attended 2 types of churches in my life. One, the RC Church, is anti birth control, although most members do not follow that tenet. The leaders of the RC Church are single men, so they have zero, adult experiences with family life and uncontrolled reproduction. Gothard was a single man; no quiverful to support and raise. I wonder if other quiverful denominations have leaders, preachers etc. who DO have many, many children and actually live the life they are encouraging/demanding others live? Is their any successful leading by example among these groups?

It’s funny because Zoo and PP have a huge family and talk about how great it is the let the lord decide their family size. Yet they have very few parishioners with huge families. There are families with 4, 5, and 6 kids. But I don’t think any of the families in PP’s church have even close to 12. Gil leads his own church and some of his kids choose not to attend. And I can’t imagine that many families following his lead and pumping out kid after kid. Quiverful ideology is not practical nor sustainable. Very rarely tsp you find a quiverful family that then has all of their children become quiverful and then all of their grandchildren. Even some of Nancy Campbell’s kids are not quiverful and don’t adopt. 

[SassyPants]

17 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s funny because Zoo and PP have a huge family and talk about how great it is the let the lord decide their family size. Yet they have very few parishioners with huge families. There are families with 4, 5, and 6 kids. But I don’t think any of the families in PP’s church have even close to 12. Gil leads his own church and some of his kids choose not to attend. And I can’t imagine that many families following his lead and pumping out kid after kid. Quiverful ideology is not practical nor sustainable. Very rarely tsp you find a quiverful family that then has all of their children become quiverful and then all of their grandchildren. Even some of Nancy Campbell’s kids are not quiverful and don’t adopt. 

I’ve read that fundamentalism usually dies in G2 because of lack of funding. You need money to support multiple generations of large families.  When you consider they do not endorse education or jobs away from the home, it makes the viability of quiverful  even more tenuous. This is why I would love to see JB’s finances. He is seemingly pulling it off-

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

I’ve read that fundamentalism usually dies in G2 because of lack of funding. You need money to support multiple generations of large families.  When you consider they do not endorse education or jobs away from the home, it makes the viability of quiverful  even more tenuous. This is why I would love to see JB’s finances. He is seemingly pulling it off-

If they never had the show/specials/books, many more of the children would have fully rebelled by now. No one can convince me otherwise. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

51 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

If they never had the show/specials/books, many more of the children would have fully rebelled by now. No one can convince me otherwise. 

I think that's true of the Bates family.

But JB duggar was working a lot of financial angles for a long time. I think he had a strp by step plan to invest, grow his money, invest more, grow it more etc.

Being on TV just sped the process up.

He already was doing real estate deals, had commercial rentals, various side line business like tow trucks and car lots and income from a cell tower rental. It seems to me he planned this pretty well and was thinking about jobs his kids could do and then take over without having to have employee jobs.

He stated he intended them to possibly have houses on his land there.

Having just a piece a land to get started as a new couple is a big leap forward for many people.

I dont like him at all but he did seem to be thinking ahead.

Unlike the bates....where I guess it's grift and grift some more and if you're desperate maybe chop some trees? Whatever boy(s) started doing construction I guess that's something finally developing. But I think most of them are hoping for a tv show again or social.media star or marry $

[JermajestyDuggar]

35 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I think that's true of the Bates family.

But JB duggar was working a lot of financial angles for a long time. I think he had a strp by step plan to invest, grow his money, invest more, grow it more etc.

Being on TV just sped the process up.

He already was doing real estate deals, had commercial rentals, various side line business like tow trucks and car lots and income from a cell tower rental. It seems to me he planned this pretty well and was thinking about jobs his kids could do and then take over without having to have employee jobs.

He stated he intended them to possibly have houses on his land there.

Having just a piece a land to get started as a new couple is a big leap forward for many people.

I dont like him at all but he did seem to be thinking ahead.

Unlike the bates....where I guess it's grift and grift some more and if you're desperate maybe chop some trees? Whatever boy(s) started doing construction I guess that's something finally developing. But I think most of them are hoping for a tv show again or social.media star or marry $

I think that if they never had a special or the show, that house would have taken many years to finish. I think they would have been living in a half finished dangerous work zone of a house for years on end. I think all the boys would have been forced to start working much younger than they had. And the girls would have stayed home longer to help out. They wouldn’t have been allowed to marry as young as they did because Michelle needed their help of no TLC money was coming in. I think JB could have supported a family of 4 or 5 kids on the income he had in the early days. But not 19. And that’s why they lived crammed in a small home before the TLC specials came along. 

[SassyPants]

4 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I think that's true of the Bates family.

But JB duggar was working a lot of financial angles for a long time. I think he had a strp by step plan to invest, grow his money, invest more, grow it more etc.

Being on TV just sped the process up.

He already was doing real estate deals, had commercial rentals, various side line business like tow trucks and car lots and income from a cell tower rental. It seems to me he planned this pretty well and was thinking about jobs his kids could do and then take over without having to have employee jobs.

He stated he intended them to possibly have houses on his land there.

Having just a piece a land to get started as a new couple is a big leap forward for many people.

I dont like him at all but he did seem to be thinking ahead.

Unlike the bates....where I guess it's grift and grift some more and if you're desperate maybe chop some trees? Whatever boy(s) started doing construction I guess that's something finally developing. But I think most of them are hoping for a tv show again or social.media star or marry $

See I find the Bates’ history way more believable as being above board. How do an uneducated 18 YO and 17 YO married couple have money for a home and business? Who funded that start and was it totally above board? And, yes, the first 4 years JB and M did work, and they had zero dependents to provide for, but a solid 2 parent work history {X4 years only} does not allow for amassing all kinds of properties and living debt free. After that, they had a kids (or more)every year for nearly 20 years, and the work history gets reallllllllll cloudy.  Yes, I  will acknowledge that somewhere along the way they were approached to place a cell tower on their property, but that was muccccccch later in the game. It does not add up to me as compared to my own life.

The hubs and I are nearly 10 years older than JB and M. We married 1 year before they did and waited 4 years to have a child. We both worked in solid professional jobs for decades. We have 2 kids and 2 homes and are financially secure, but it was hard, hard work. Like I said, I worked for 35 years and my husband still works. I’ve walked the walk, albeit in a far more expensive locale. Were did 25 YO JB with 4 kids and no apparent job get the money to invest in real estate? How were they living debt free? Where did they get  medical insurance?  You have to have money to buy real estate without mortgages and to live debt free.  And no one would give unemployed folks with a dozen kids a loan.

It all seems sketchy. And didn’t JB always complain that his parents lived in poverty? I doubt they were gifting homes and rental properties. Or JB was a liar…

OTOH, KG and Gil, who also followed the Gothard tenet of no working away from the home, lived in poverty. Gil’s parents seem financially secure, yet KG and Gil didn’t amass rental properties, and they certainly aren’t supporting all their kids and their families.

It’s interesting to me that most of the G2 B. Girls are married to men who work outside the home. Other than Jill and Joy (and really just Jill really) the G2D women are married to financial duds. Yes, Austin works, but he works from home and  has shown to be very available to help around the house. I wonder which he is more attentive to during his work day, family or his job?  Derick works away from home and who knows what Jerm and Ben do. 

 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

19 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

See I find the Bates’ history way more believable as being above board. How do an uneducated 18 YO and 17 YO married couple have money for a home and business? Who funded that start and was it totally above board? And, yes, the first 4 years JB and M did work, and they had zero dependents to provide for, but a solid 2 parent work history {X4 years only} does not allow for amassing all kinds of properties and living debt free. After that, they had a kids (or more)every year for nearly 20 years, and the work history gets reallllllllll cloudy.  Yes, I  will acknowledge that somewhere along the way they were approached to place a cell tower on their property, but that was muccccccch later in the game. It does not add up to me as compared to my own life.

The hubs and I are nearly 10 years older than JB and M. We married 1 year before they did and waited 4 years to have a child. We both worked in solid professional jobs for decades. We have 2 kids and 2 homes and are financially secure, but it was hard, hard work. Like I said, I worked for 35 years and my husband still works. I’ve walked the walk, albeit in a far more expensive locale. Were did 25 YO JB with 4 kids and no apparent job get the money to invest in real estate? How were they living debt free? Where did they get  medical insurance?  You have to have money to buy real estate without mortgages and to live debt free.  And no one would give unemployed folks with a dozen kids a loan.

It all seems sketchy. And didn’t JB always complain that his parents lived in poverty? I doubt they were gifting homes and rental properties. Or JB was a liar…

OTOH, KG and Gil, who also followed the Gothard tenet of no working away from the home, lived in poverty. Gil’s parents seem financially secure, yet KG and Gil didn’t amass rental properties, and they certainly aren’t supporting all their kids and their families.

It’s interesting to me that most of the G2 B. Girls are married to men who work outside the home. Other than Jill and Joy (and really just Jill really) the G2D women are married to financial duds. Yes, Austin works, but he works from home and  has shown to be very available to help around the house. I wonder which he is more attentive to during his work day, family or his job?  Derick works away from home and who knows what Jerm and Ben do. 

 

 

My guess is that when times got very thought in the Duggar house back in the 90s, JB got some money from his parents. Maybe her paid it back eventually. But Jimmy Lee wasn’t pleased about their huge family and maybe that’s because he had to loan them money. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

My guess is that when times got very thought in the Duggar house back in the 90s, JB got some money from his parents. Maybe her paid it back eventually. But Jimmy Lee wasn’t pleased about their huge family and maybe that’s because he had to loan them money. 

From what we know I think all the signs indicated the duggars were living a a very tight financial life. I believe both Michelle and JB had real estate licenses. All that wasn't on the internet back then and real estate depended a lot more on wheeling and dealing, connecting people to other people, asking around "hey that house your mom left you - looking to sell?". You couldn't easily check the sales prices everywhere, so knowing the local market was very important.

I can believe they bought some rental properties and flipped properties. You can build up a good investment ladder doing that. At least until recently you could (nowadays there's a crazy foreign investment thing going on with single family homes and it's not the same). I know of many people who did nothing but buy cheap houses fix them up and rent them. You get a few going then you have your income replaced completely. If the house appreciates more than expected then sell it and buy 2 more to replace it. It really is a snowball effect. I wanted to do this in 2003 or so. There were decent houses to be had for 30-50k$.  I lacked anybody to help me co sign a mortgage or start up cash. My father said he would help (and I was desperate enough to ask!) but in the end he wouldn't commit and that was that.  I couldn't get a mortgage. As a result I went on with my 4 year degree and got sucked into a student debt cycle I'm still fighting against (I could get student loans).

Doing a property ladder like that runs negative for a few years usually, then it starts to grow. This is what it looks like the Duggars did. They did a ladder to save up for the plot of land and were slowly building the TTH themselves. It might not have been furnished as nicely or finished as quickly when TLC came along. But as I recall most of the shell was complete before they were on TLC for that 1st special.

I really wonder what would have happened to the Bates boys if Chad hadn't come along and started teaching them construction stuff. Chad mentored them so they have some kind of skill. I really doubt Gil has taught the younger ones the tree cutting trade (he seems to have more physical issues past few years, plus more involved in his own church these days). But I suppose there does always seem to be a need for lawn guys and guys who will paint your house and what not on a job by job basis. Lawson's lucky that Tiffany seems to have come with some sort of nest egg or ongoing income.

 

[Melissa1977]

15 hours ago, SassyPants said:

How do an uneducated 18 YO and 17 YO married couple have money for a home and business? Who funded that start and was it totally above board? And, yes, the first 4 years JB and M did work, and they had zero dependents to provide for, but a solid 2 parent work history {X4 years only} does not allow for amassing all kinds of properties and living debt free.

They were very poor (including being short of food). The money they raised it all went to JB failed political career. I think TV changed everything, gave them money to invest and that good investments lead to more money and more investments. They knew the area and the business, and maybe being "so godly" gave them advantage to make some deals.

[Jackie3]

On 5/29/2023 at 2:48 PM, SassyPants said:

Were did 25 YO JB with 4 kids and no apparent job get the money to invest in real estate? How were they living debt free? Where did they get  medical insurance?  You have to have money to buy real estate without mortgages and to live debt free.  And no one would give unemployed folks with a dozen kids a loan.

 

Did you eat tube meat? Did you buy all your clothes at yard sales? Were you willing to forego fruits and vegetables and subsist on things like potatoes and discounted pasta? Were you willing to gamble on your kids health by getting useless health insurance? Were you willing to pay your kids 3 cents a chore, even when they'd spent a hour raking the backyard? (this last one is straight out of their first book)

If not, you really can't compare yourself to the Duggars. 

The Duggars lived a very frugal life, and made choices most of us wouldn't want to make. They also lived in a very low COL area. I also think JB is much smarter than Gil, and probably handier at fixing places up.  JB was also driven to make/save money because of his own childhood in poverty. And since he was the "spiritual leader" of the home, he could get what he wanted. If he told Michelle to, say, buy the kids' sneakers at the church yard sale, she submitted, even if the sneakers were torn and smelly.

[SassyPants]

On 5/30/2023 at 8:55 PM, Jackie3 said:

Did you eat tube meat? Did you buy all your clothes at yard sales? Were you willing to forego fruits and vegetables and subsist on things like potatoes and discounted pasta? Were you willing to gamble on your kids health by getting useless health insurance? Were you willing to pay your kids 3 cents a chore, even when they'd spent a hour raking the backyard? (this last one is straight out of their first book)

If not, you really can't compare yourself to the Duggars. 

The Duggars lived a very frugal life, and made choices most of us wouldn't want to make. They also lived in a very low COL area. I also think JB is much smarter than Gil, and probably handier at fixing places up.  JB was also driven to make/save money because of his own childhood in poverty. And since he was the "spiritual leader" of the home, he could get what he wanted. If he told Michelle to, say, buy the kids' sneakers at the church yard sale, she submitted, even if the sneakers were torn and smelly.

We’re did they get the initial cash?  They were literally kids when they married. You can’t buy houses (debt free no less, if you believe JB) and flip them without CASH. You can’t start a business DEBT FREE without cash. JB claimed his parents had no money. Someone gave them a lot of CASH. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Ut oh. Waving red flags draws the troll's eye.

It's a shame there's troll poop in so many corners of the castle lately.

[patsymae]

"How do an uneducated 18 YO and 17 YO married couple have money for a home and business? Who funded that start and was it totally above board? "

 

My vote is Grandma Mary, and no.

 

"Did you eat tube meat? Did you buy all your clothes at yard sales? Were you willing to forego fruits and vegetables and subsist on things like potatoes and discounted pasta?"

Yup. And even when my mother remarried and it wasn't necessary (solid blue-collar working class in the '60s was a step up for us) and my stepfather tried to do things like take the boys for real haircuts, etc., she still insisted on home-made haircuts (She sucked at it, not denigrating people who do it well), no-brand soaps, crappy food and all the rest. I didn't see a dentist until I was 21. It's like a freaking mental illness for some people. 

That said, while IMO Michelle might have taken pride in her continued "frugality" JB was probably just greedy and socking it all away. 

[ven]

On 5/29/2023 at 5:08 PM, SassyPants said:

I have attended 2 types of churches in my life. One, the RC Church, is anti birth control, although most members do not follow that tenet. The leaders of the RC Church are single men, so they have zero, adult experiences with family life and uncontrolled reproduction. Gothard was a single man; no quiverful to support and raise. I wonder if other quiverful denominations have leaders, preachers etc. who DO have many, many children and actually live the life they are encouraging/demanding others live? Is their any successful leading by example among these groups?

Orthodox jews all do . But christians, nah 

[rebeccawriter01]

2 hours ago, patsymae said:

"How do an uneducated 18 YO and 17 YO married couple have money for a home and business? Who funded that start and was it totally above board? "

 

My vote is Grandma Mary, and no.

I believe that Grandma Mary did help financially at first and I think that is when she started pushing the seminars that led to IBLP. I know that the Duggars, etc. talk about the miscarriage being the catalyst. However, most people who became part of the IBLP did so through different seminars that included "financial freedom" that Jim Bob was always harping on and ones for married couples, children, etc. 

People like to speculate on the grown children's involvement. Here's the deal with most cults like this, they prey on people who are in some sort of crisis. The cult group presents themselves as the solution for it all. For Jim Bob and Michelle it was probably financial and medical. Take this seminar and never work again. Take this seminar and have all the children you desire. Take this one and manage more children. Take this other one and learn how to keep your marriage fresh when of you is always pregnant. 

With the Bates I think the lure was originally financial for Gil. Gil was a religion guy and liked to believe the answers to everything are in the Bible. I dated a guy like that. Very annoying. Seriously, we don't have to consult the Bible before we grocery shop. His parents have (had) money, but his father strikes me as the type who would say things like, "you said you were grown enough to have babies, then you are grown enough to get a job." They gave them land at the farm in SC, but probably didn't want to help them get a house in Tennessee. That said, they probably stepped up when it came to Christmas presents, etc. Gil probably went to a financial seminar and found it helpful so he went for more and more.

Kelly is all together different on that. I think she was looking to belong. Church, etc. for her is about people knowing her and caring for her. She thrives on "family" where she can find it. I think it stems from her childhood. She tries to create this closeness with her children, especially when they are getting married or having a baby. IBLP gives that to her.

Edited June 11, 2023 by rebeccawriter01

[gobucks]

Evan got his Tesla he wanted. They got the 6 seater version. He justifies his purchase that the autopilot could stop the car in case Carlin goes back to driving and has an episode while driving. A 2023 6 seater is $100,000 or some crazy amount. I am watching the video to see if they bought one brand new or a used one.