Erin and Chad 10: Will they homeschool?

[freethemall]

1 hour ago, Cupcake79 said:

I think it’s more that she wants as many kids as possible, but having the most of all the Bates siblings is a bonus she likes. 
I wonder what goes on in Chad’s head. He’s also indoctrinated to think that they have to have as many kids as possible but I think he is worried about Erin’s health. Wouldn’t it be fairly easy for him to pray for God’s guidance and come to the conclusion that it’s okay to stop having more kids. He’s supposed to be the headship. But maybe he isn’t in the end.

I think we can also expect they won't stop til they have a brother for Carson.

Seriously though, one of these fertile assholes can't offer to be a surrogate for Michael? They have enough kids, why not be selfless and give one to your infertile sister? Maybe it's taboo or something but I have to think someone has at least considered it.

[Jackie3]

15 hours ago, Johannah said:

I feel bad for Carson. They are so obsessed with this being a boy and that god has control over that and encouraging him to pray for a brother. It’s effed up. What happens when it’s his fifth sister? And even if it is a boy, that’s a shit ton of expectation to put on an infant. 

Also, Carson will be nearly 9 years older than his brother (should he appear). That's a very different relationship than, say, Holly and Everly. Carson may play with his brother once in a whle, but he's going to be interested in very different things than an infant/toddler. They won't "grow up together", climbing trees and playing superheroes. The age difference is too great.

[SassyPants]

15 minutes ago, freethemall said:

I think we can also expect they won't stop til they have a brother for Carson.

Seriously though, one of these fertile assholes can't offer to be a surrogate for Michael? They have enough kids, why not be selfless and give one to your infertile sister? Maybe it's taboo or something but I have to think someone has at least considered it.

Admittedly, I know very little regarding the psychology behind surrogacy or egg donation, but I’ve wondered this too. For all the emphasis on babies, servants’ hearts and how much they love one another, you’d think one of those sisters would have offered to donate an egg, if that’s the issue-

It likely is against their religion.

[Jackie3]

22 hours ago, Word said:

Chads smile looks fake

With Erin sick all the time (from health issues and now pregnancy), when does he work? I don't see how he is supporting his big family. And every time Erin has an operation/gall bladder/pregnancy issues, she is down for the count and he has to take over. Most people with full-time jobs can't do that. Unless they have some childcare help I don't know about? 

 

[CanadianMamam]

1 hour ago, freethemall said:

I think we can also expect they won't stop til they have a brother for Carson.

Seriously though, one of these fertile assholes can't offer to be a surrogate for Michael? They have enough kids, why not be selfless and give one to your infertile sister? Maybe it's taboo or something but I have to think someone has at least considered it.

Besides religion, the clotting disorder would be a huge issue. The drugs needed for egg retrieval can cause blood clots. 

As for surrogacy, none of the Bates sisters would pass the criteria, because of health issues.  

[sleepygirl1]

Wow I was shocked by this. Plus now we know Lawson and Tiffany are expecting Tori will be next no doubt.

[rebeccawriter01]

3 hours ago, freethemall said:

I think we can also expect they won't stop til they have a brother for Carson.

Seriously though, one of these fertile assholes can't offer to be a surrogate for Michael? They have enough kids, why not be selfless and give one to your infertile sister? Maybe it's taboo or something but I have to think someone has at least considered it.

Michaela has said it isn't something they are considering. She hinted that was for medical reasons but who knows. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I bet if IVF was cheaper in the US, more fundies would adopt embryos frozen in storage. They would make a huge deal about saving a life from being thawed and destroyed, blah blah blah. Fundies love to play the savior. 

[Giraffe]

Put me in the camp of Erin over-exaggerating what she was told about her fertility. I wonder if Erin was told the procedure has a risk of both putting her in early menopause and reducing her ability to conceive and instead of hearing the "might" she took it as: "you're probably never getting pregnant again and if you do it's an absolute miracle!!!"

[browngrl]

19 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Put me in the camp of Erin over-exaggerating what she was told about her fertility.

If she didn't then how could she frame things as being a "miracle" and then gush about god. Bonus: crying persecution if someone points out her exaggerations

[lumpentheologie]

And when she shared the news about her lost fertility she went on and on about how devastated she and Chad were and how they had cried and prayed about this and her dreams for the future were shattered.

Like normally this isn’t even the kind of health news one would feel the need to share with the general public, especially after already having 4 kids. And a sister who can’t have any.

She got so much sympathy, even on here a lot of people felt really bad for her. 

[marmalade]

I happened upon Kelly's congratulatory tribute. It was predictably barftastic, and she referred to the pregnancy as a miracle. How many more "miracle" pregnancies will Erin have? I bet she's good for 2 or 3 more. 🙄

[SassyPants]

47 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

And when she shared the news about her lost fertility she went on and on about how devastated she and Chad were and how they had cried and prayed about this and her dreams for the future were shattered.

Like normally this isn’t even the kind of health news one would feel the need to share with the general public, especially after already having 4 kids. And a sister who can’t have any.

She got so much sympathy, even on here a lot of people felt really bad for her. 

Yes, I do not understand the over the top PG announcements from all these couples for a couple of reasons. The most obvious reason is because their oldest sister has not been able to have ANY babies. How insensitive to make a big azz’d deal about child #4, 5 or 6 when Michaela and Brandon remain childless after a recent loss. And since none of them use BC, babies will predictably come, even for Erin and Chad. I swear to dog, they all act like they’ve split the atom or found human life in the meta verse every time they get pregnant.

[Sabine]

9 hours ago, freethemall said:

I think we can also expect they won't stop til they have a brother for Carson.

Seriously though, one of these fertile assholes can't offer to be a surrogate for Michael? They have enough kids, why not be selfless and give one to your infertile sister? Maybe it's taboo or something but I have to think someone has at least considered it.

I am one of these 'infertile' persons, my friend offered me her body literally to carry, incubate and birth a child for me. Now, firstly surrogate mothers have died doing that, to state just that straight out of the door. Secondly, the mother - err the birthing body or what ever is the preferred term for womb rental/lease/gift - will bond to the child. Third, mothers - or birthing bodies, or womb carriers, or baby growing factory, or sentient incubators (choose what ever term applies best to each and everyone - i have herd all of these terms used to replace 'mother')  can die during child birth, may suffer mental ill health after giving birth and having that infant taken from them. 

No matter how desperate i would be to have a child, this is not someting i would ask of a sister, a friend, or even just a stranger to do. 

IT is the height of patriarchy to rent the womb of an often poor women (Ukraine was the capital of people wishing to buy life infants of breeding agencies and their cattle before the war started, India stopped doing commercial surrogacies as 'parents' refused to pick up children that were 'compromised' i.e. not in good health or maybe not 'perfect' or of the wrong 'sex') and it is the height of hypocrisy to pretend to being against human trafficking and then going to buy a life infant and take it god knows where by god knows whom. 

I never took my friend up on this offer as i wanted her to live, raise her own beautiful children, and i did not wanted to see her suffer emotionally and mentally by having a child that she carried and birthed taken away by me after the birth.

 

Btw, the handmaids in Atwoods Dystopia are keeping their children for a few weeks to be breastfed. We don't even give that courtesy to these bought children of rented wombs. 

Maybe Michaela and her husband are quietly happy about not having to greet a new blessing every 18 month, and just make the nessesary noises about having a child one day just to keep everyone believing that they too want to be parents of many many. Maybe they really don't care about not having children. And maybe they are the couple who will allow other fundi couples to come to grips with the reality tht 'god' sometimes does not bestow many blessings on people even if they are good decent god fearing people. 

 

India to ban commercial surrogacy https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32216696/

Won't nobody think of the poor women who only have womb rental to negotiate for an income https://time.com/6075971/commercial-surrogacy-ban-india/#:~:text=In 2019%2C the government revived,the lower house of Parliament.

Ukraine and the war effects on surrogacy https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/09/08/the-war-has-thrown-ukraines-surrogacy-industry-into-crisis

shall we ask uncomfortable questions? https://mercatornet.com/war-has-exposed-the-questionable-practice-of-commercial-surrogacy-in-ukraine/83526/

oh and if you die, you knew that, your hubby (if you have one) knew that, your children knew that, and besides, you are poor, so does it matter? http://nhsurrogacy.com/death-and-the-surrogate/#:~:text=Typically%2C contracts require that the,financial protection to her family.

[rebeccawriter01]

40 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Yes, I do not understand the over the top PG announcements from all these couples for a couple of reasons. The most obvious reason is because their oldest sister has not been able to have ANY babies. How insensitive to make a big azz’d deal about child #4, 5 or 6 when Michaela and Brandon remain childless after a recent loss. And since none of them use BC, babies will predictably come, even for Erin and Chad. I swear to dog, they all act like they’ve split the atom or found human life in the meta verse every time they get pregnant.

I'm not a big fan of the over the top baby or even wedding announcements. I once questioned a family member who would scream congratulations at such moments but sort of yawned and shrugged if someone got a promotion, a new degree, bought a new home, etc. Even when I adopted my daughters, I was taken aback by the congratulations, as that seemed like the wrong (in my eyes) sentiment. If was to marry, why is it congratulations rather than good luck? Is it supposed to mean I have done something extraordinary in finding a person to marry? In some cultures the response to a pregnancy announcement is to lament about the work ahead.

On the show Michaela spoke of Alyssa informing her about a pregnancy before the announcement. Ignoring the idea of producer interference for a moment, that is a nice gesture. However, I am not sure that it truly helps the situation. So if Michaela were honest that it hurt too much to witness another announcement, what would happen? Would she skip the event where the announcement was made? Would she stand off to the side and cry? Would she beg her sister not to make it so dramatic and just say, "by the way, I'm pregnant again?" When I was struggling with getting a diagnosis for what caused my infertility, I remember my younger cousin was got pregnant and gave birth at 15, 17, 18, 19, and 20. I did not feel like I had the right to say a word about it despite my aunt carrying on about how wonderful it was like she was Kelly Jo Bates.

People are cruel with and without intention to those struggling to conceive or carry a baby, to those with invisible illnesses, and to those who are dealing with mental and emotional issues. I saw on the Bates Family Instagram that there was this post about congratulating Erin and Chad. Michaela posted congratulations. People responded to Michaela with comments about how they are praying for her and she'll be next, etc. 

I do feel bad for Michaela to be born into a fertility cult and not meet the expectations of the cult. I would want at least a moment or a day when everyone didn't have to remind me of the pain of not having what you want or dream about. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

29 minutes ago, Sabine said:

I am one of these 'infertile' persons, my friend offered me her body literally to carry, incubate and birth a child for me. Now, firstly surrogate mothers have died doing that, to state just that straight out of the door. Secondly, the mother - err the birthing body or what ever is the preferred term for womb rental/lease/gift - will bond to the child. Third, mothers - or birthing bodies, or womb carriers, or baby growing factory, or sentient incubators (choose what ever term applies best to each and everyone - i have herd all of these terms used to replace 'mother')  can die during child birth, may suffer mental ill health after giving birth and having that infant taken from them. 

No matter how desperate i would be to have a child, this is not someting i would ask of a sister, a friend, or even just a stranger to do. 

IT is the height of patriarchy to rent the womb of an often poor women (Ukraine was the capital of people wishing to buy life infants of breeding agencies and their cattle before the war started, India stopped doing commercial surrogacies as 'parents' refused to pick up children that were 'compromised' i.e. not in good health or maybe not 'perfect' or of the wrong 'sex') and it is the height of hypocrisy to pretend to being against human trafficking and then going to buy a life infant and take it god knows where by god knows whom. 

I never took my friend up on this offer as i wanted her to live, raise her own beautiful children, and i did not wanted to see her suffer emotionally and mentally by having a child that she carried and birthed taken away by me after the birth.

 

Btw, the handmaids in Atwoods Dystopia are keeping their children for a few weeks to be breastfed. We don't even give that courtesy to these bought children of rented wombs. 

Maybe Michaela and her husband are quietly happy about not having to greet a new blessing every 18 month, and just make the nessesary noises about having a child one day just to keep everyone believing that they too want to be parents of many many. Maybe they really don't care about not having children. And maybe they are the couple who will allow other fundi couples to come to grips with the reality tht 'god' sometimes does not bestow many blessings on people even if they are good decent god fearing people. 

 

India to ban commercial surrogacy https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32216696/

Won't nobody think of the poor women who only have womb rental to negotiate for an income https://time.com/6075971/commercial-surrogacy-ban-india/#:~:text=In 2019%2C the government revived,the lower house of Parliament.

Ukraine and the war effects on surrogacy https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/09/08/the-war-has-thrown-ukraines-surrogacy-industry-into-crisis

shall we ask uncomfortable questions? https://mercatornet.com/war-has-exposed-the-questionable-practice-of-commercial-surrogacy-in-ukraine/83526/

oh and if you die, you knew that, your hubby (if you have one) knew that, your children knew that, and besides, you are poor, so does it matter? http://nhsurrogacy.com/death-and-the-surrogate/#:~:text=Typically%2C contracts require that the,financial protection to her family.

I’ve ranted before on FJ about rich people in the US using surrogates. People like Kim Kardashian, Khloe Kardashian, Paris Hilton, and Priyanka Chopra have all had children through surrogacy in the last few years because they can afford it. I would love to know what kind of situation they had with the surrogate. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they did take advantage of a person who may need the money and basically rented their body out for 9 months. 

[Sabine]

18 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’ve ranted before on FJ about rich people in the US using surrogates. People like Kim Kardashian, Khloe Kardashian, Paris Hilton, and Priyanka Chopra have all had children through surrogacy in the last few years because they can afford it. I would love to know what kind of situation they had with the surrogate. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they did take advantage of a person who may need the money and basically rented their body out for 9 months. 

Rich women/men have always used the bodies of poor women - be it Sarah who had her slave raped by Abraham to be her 'surrogate', be it the poor women that was summoned to the castle/manor to breastfeed the child that the rich women had no milk for - always to the detriment of the baby that poor women just birthed, be it for slave owners (the world over btw) to breed new slaves, be it Mary who was 'inseminated by the holy spirity' to birth an unwanted / un-needed  child to some deity despite the fact that a child out of wedlock would have seen her stoned to death,   or now for rich people to buy a life infant cause pregnancy is just such a chore. As for the gay men that buy themselves life infants, well despite all the news about "men" giving birth, i  guess males do not give birth just yet. 

Not sure if you are a Trekkie fan, but you might want to acquaint yourself with the Ferengi Nation. Essentially a people were everything must be done for a profit. Females however can not work, they must be naked at all times, not leave the house - yada yada - but they get to negotiate their 'womb rental'. Our future? 

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Womb_rental_agreement

Sometimes i think the only jobs in the future for the female of the human species are 'sex worker' cause sex work is work and thus if unemployed could you refuse that job offer for professional blow job giver? Sentient incubator for life children - again if that is work and you be unemployed could you refuse that job if you were of 'breeding age"?  Could a young and healthy women refuse a job for 'ova' harvesting? And of course the right to abort any and all children that no one commissioned and for whom no pay can be expected. 

disclaimer: I have had miscarriages, i had abortion, and i lost my uterus in an emergency operation at 30. Surrogacy is cruel to the mother and to the child and is just a nice term for human trafficking.  

Edited May 15, 2023 by Sabine
brain not caffeinated enough.

[AussieKrissy]

10 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Admittedly, I know very little regarding the psychology behind surrogacy or egg donation, but I’ve wondered this too. For all the emphasis on babies, servants’ hearts and how much they love one another, you’d think one of those sisters would have offered to donate an egg, if that’s the issue-

It likely is against their religion.

I can see the spouses not liking it. Another man fathering a child with their wife's genetics. I don't think so...

[Sabine]

19 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’ve ranted before on FJ about rich people in the US using surrogates. People like Kim Kardashian, Khloe Kardashian, Paris Hilton, and Priyanka Chopra have all had children through surrogacy in the last few years because they can afford it. I would love to know what kind of situation they had with the surrogate. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they did take advantage of a person who may need the money and basically rented their body out for 9 months. 

edit: they had no situation with the surrogate. They had a situation with an agency, who took a large commission while the surrogate took all the risks. Chance for a really shitty low pay that would not even make min wage if you paid for the whole 24 hours a day for nine month, plus delivery bonus. 

https://www.realitytitbit.com/celebrity-news/fans-wonder-if-khloe-ks-surrogate-salary-will-be-paid-more-than-45k-like-kims

 

5 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

I can see the spouses not liking it. Another man fathering a child with their wife's genetics. I don't think so...

Egg harvesting is not all that easy. Not all that painfree. And in the end, you will again need a lot of people have dna tests to see how many siblings are there of the same egg donor, something that is already an issue with semen donors. 

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/nov/07/i-sold-my-eggs-for-an-ivy-league-education-but-was-it-worth-it

https://www.europeanspermbank.com/blog-en-int/blog-posts/donor-half-siblings-considerations#:~:text=Donor siblings.,part of the same family.

[Keys]

Pregnancy is not a health-neutral event. I had preeclampsia at the end of my pregnancy, and things could have gone very badly. Having preeclampsia also puts you at much higher risk of developing cardiovascular disease at a much earlier age. Similarly, gestational diabetes puts you at risk for type 2 diabetes. Cholestasis puts you at risk for liver issues. Our bodies change after pregnancy. IVF pregnancies are at higher risk for these complications than spontaneous pregnancies. And with preeclampsia specifically, the risk increases if it’s the first pregnancy with a new father (like with surrogacy in the context of previous uncomplicated pregnancies). 
 

So, with my history, I am not sure that I’d volunteer to be a surrogate. I need to be my healthiest self for my child. It would be a huge ask, even without complications, but the Bates girls have a history of pregnancy or health complications, too. So I can’t say I blame them for not volunteering for this. 
 

I do feel for Michaela deeply, as I can imagine how I would feel if I was dealing with infertility and my sisters were popping out baby after baby, even despite health factors that should, in theory, be making that more difficult (ie Erin’s ovary)

[lumpentheologie]

Gee it would be great if we could talk about things without devolving into anti-trans and anti-sex worker hysteria. 

[Keys]

2 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

Gee it would be great if we could talk about things without devolving into anti-trans and anti-sex worker hysteria. 

I’m not sure what you’re referring to?

[lumpentheologie]

2 hours ago, Keys said:

I’m not sure what you’re referring to?

Another poster referred to trans men as “men” (in scare quotes, so not really men), and strongly implied that if we allow sex workers protections under labor laws suddenly all women will be forced to give blow jobs for a living, simply because they are women.

Which is especially ridiculous given that blow jobs in sex work originated among cis male and trans women prostitutes (as a substitute for vaginal sex), and cis women sex workers historically refused to do it until the normalization of oral sex in the 20th century. That’s why “cocksucker” is still an insult for a gay man, and not for a female sex worker. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by lumpentheologie

[Melissa1977]

Surrogate is not only for  rich people, many middle class in my country have done it in Ukraine and upper middle class do it in the US (in US it's more expensive but it's easier to "legalise" the baby when back in our country). It is often seen as a clean job as if the surrogates just keep sweet and enjoy the procedure and as if being a surrogate was risk free. Of course it is not, it is higher than normal pregnancies and even healthy births can have consequences but surrogate are nor paid for those.

Anyway, telling a woman to give a child to her infertile sister is beyond cruel. I don't care if the live in a fertility cult, nobody must feel emotionally forced to undergo a pregnancy and birth and give the baby to a sister. 

Seeing surrogate just as a "fertility solution" where women do not suffer or risk themselves is the highway to Gilead.

[Nothing if not critical]

I agree that surrogacy is potentially highly problematic and needs to be properly regulated to avoid any form of coercion or exploitation. No woman should ever feel forced to carry a baby, neither for economic or "moral" reasons. No Bates sister is under any obligation to carry a baby for Michaela.

On the other hand, if a woman genuinely wants to be a surrogate mother, I don't see a reason to not allow her to make that decision for herself. Yes, it's risky, but so are plenty of other jobs - no one is telling people not to become miners or firefighters because of the risks implied in those jobs. I personally wouldn't want to do it, and I wouldn't want to be a sex worker either. But telling those who want they can't do it seems infantilising to me.

They should be properly paid and legally protected, absolutely, and they should be made aware of the risks. And yes, I'm aware that that's not always the case. But just because something can be exploited is not necessarily a reason to condemn it.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Nothing if not critical