Maxwell 52: Retired Vests, Retired Blog, and Retired Maxwells

[Austrian Atheist]

Not going to snark about Abby, because she is just a child.

However, that instituten's purpose is to indoctrinate children: "The Children’s Ministries Institute® exists for the express purpose of promoting the evangelization and discipleship of children around the world." https://www.cefcmi.com/about/purpose/

Doesn't those Fundis believe the father/husband/patriarch of the family is responsible for the spiritual welfare of the children? But to approach stranger's underaged children and preach on them is considered a-okay? What would have Steve done if somebody had approached his children to proselytize? He would have thrown a fit.

I hate proselytizing in general. It's just so presumptuous. But keep away from other people's kids especially!

 

[Black Aliss]

3 hours ago, allyisyourpally5 said:

Still slightly confused though by her saying this considering that her siblings were being baptised at age 5 and not much older! I’m sure the response would be the child accepted Jesus can chose this. We all know a child that young will parrot what they’ve been told and their beliefs are from their environment, not actually their own thinking. 

WIWAK our fundie church required us to have reached the age of accountability, generally considered to be 13. Since following our favorite fundies I've been surprised by how young they are when they are baptized. But, then, they do think babies can be "bad" and need to be held accountable for their behavior, so I guess accountability is their benchmark too.

 

[Hane]

I was raised Catholic, and infant baptism is the norm in that faith, but one of my longtime pastors (an expert on canon law) stressed the fact that Confirmation is a sacrament that should only be actively chosen by people old enough to decide to become full members of the Church. He said, “If it were up to me, no one under 18 would ever be confirmed.” 

[Jana814]

I always thought the Maxwell grandchildren were baptized a little to young. Like maybe Steve tried to convince them by saying “it would mean a lot to me & grandma if you would get baptized”. Of course these kids would want to make their grandparents & parents happy. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

There are so many fundie stories of 4 and 5 year olds accepting Jesus and being baptized. Someone like Jill comes to mind. I always thought a kid that young has no idea what they are talking about when they are accepting Jesus into their hearts. They just want to please their parents. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Abby says "infant baptism" in most of the other posts.  She seems to believe that once a child is old enough to speak they can sin. She says that "babies are innocent", but her "two year old and 4 year old siblings are old enough to sin". Her views, not mine. I'm sure she's parroting what her parents and grandparents are teaching her as well as her church, etc.

Catholics are not the only faith that does infant baptism, first communion, and confirmation, the Anglican and  Episcopal churches do it and I think a few other denominations, but I'm not sure.

1 hour ago, Hane said:

I was raised Catholic, and infant baptism is the norm in that faith, but one of my longtime pastors (an expert on canon law) stressed the fact that Confirmation is a sacrament that should only be actively chosen by people old enough to decide to become full members of the Church. He said, “If it were up to me, no one under 18 would ever be confirmed.” 

I agree. I have many issues with the Catholic Church (ex-Catholic). One of them is that Confirmation is supposed to be a free choice, but it's given at an age when most people are minors living at home. I think 25 would be a better age, but then teenagers couldn't be godparents (and yes I know people in real life who were teenage godparents).  I also think seven is too young to be worrying about sins.

[ElizaB]

I do not believe for one moment that Abby was given "free reign" to take this course. I have a feeling it was done with her dad sitting by her side helping her answer each question and approving each response. 

[sableduck]

A lot of Protestant denominations baptize babies. Methodists do, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, any of your Calvinistic/reformed denominations such as Reformed Baptists.  Orthodox Christians practice infant baptism as well.  It’s probably more common in Christianity to baptize infants than adult baptism.

[forgetmenow]

2 hours ago, sableduck said:

A lot of Protestant denominations baptize babies. Methodists do, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, any of your Calvinistic/reformed denominations such as Reformed Baptists.  Orthodox Christians practice infant baptism as well.  It’s probably more common in Christianity to baptize infants than adult baptism.

I know some Reformed Protestants baptize infants, but the Reformed Baptist church I grew up in didn't and nether did any of our sister churches.  My old church didn't baptize until kids were legal adults although I remember maybe two kids who were 16 or 17.

Some kids' takeaway from the age restriction was that they couldn't be saved until they were adults.  I remember understanding the difference and just being relieved that I didn't have to face the social pressure until I was older (I have awful stage fright).

Edited February 16, 2022 by forgetmenow

[fundiewatch]

There has never been mention of Christopher’s kids being baptized, though he and Christina are almost the same age. It’s possible they are more private about that, which sooo hugely makes sense to me. Anna Marie otherwise shared quite willingly recipes, in-depth, clear to read posts on traveling with kids, activities, etc. Aside from her writing about her cancer journey. It’s interesting that the MaxFam isn’t going in the direction of some content from her, an actual “mom in the trenches,” because Christopher was so involved in Titus 2 from the start. I also wonder if they will join a church when out of the worst of the infection concerns are over, or if Chris’ family will be more likely to home church or start back up with the nursing home. The Demcaks also do nursing home ministry so the Maxwells aren’t the only ones. 
 

I think I just came to say I miss Anna Marie and wish she would reassure me again that things will be okay. 😆 My MIL pursued alternative cancer treatment on the same timeline and I can’t say how much AM’s words benefitted me. 

[ElizaB]

It seemed to me for a while that they were having Anna Marie post more and more with the hopes of transitioning the blog to her. She fit the mold as the "perfect" fundi wife and her beliefs fell in line with the Maxwell's views. I kind of hoped that this would be the case. For whatever reason, I guess she didn't want to take over. 

[fundiewatch]

The blog really in all ways was all Sarah. It was a piece of her identity, being the author and mouthpiece. Sarah always “introduced” the pieces, or Anna Marie would say “they asked me if I had recipes/tips/tools to share and I said sure!” 
 

Complete FanFic- ten years in the future, Anna Marie, having years in remission, and Christopher adopt. Her sister is adopted. 
 

We would never know if it happened though. 

[FloraDoraDolly]

On 2/15/2022 at 11:56 AM, Austrian Atheist said:

Not going to snark about Abby, because she is just a child.

However, that instituten's purpose is to indoctrinate children: "The Children’s Ministries Institute® exists for the express purpose of promoting the evangelization and discipleship of children around the world." https://www.cefcmi.com/about/purpose/

Doesn't those Fundis believe the father/husband/patriarch of the family is responsible for the spiritual welfare of the children? But to approach stranger's underaged children and preach on them is considered a-okay? What would have Steve done if somebody had approached his children to proselytize? He would have thrown a fit.

I hate proselytizing in general. It's just so presumptuous. But keep away from other people's kids especially!

 

I am actually surprised that Abby is allowed to have this much contact with other children. When her reversal aunts and uncles were her age, they were doing the nursing home church. Anna and Mary didn't start their children's ministry until they were young adults. No way would have Steve allowed them to do that at 13.

[theologygeek]

This is interesting.  John got two PPP loans totaling around 15k and Joseph got one for around 86k.  The loans they got were forgivable.  Disclaimer-I'm not judging.  Have nothing against PPP loans.  Many people needed them to survive.  I could have gotten one but didn't, because I had enough of a nest egg to get me through the pandemic, and also my business didn't suffer that much.  Just found it interesting because the Maxwells don't strike me as the type that would take government assistance.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

56 minutes ago, theologygeek said:

This is interesting.  John got two PPP loans totaling around 15k and Joseph got one for around 86k.  The loans they got were forgivable.  Disclaimer-I'm not judging.  Have nothing against PPP loans.  Many people needed them to survive.  I could have gotten one but didn't, because I had enough of a nest egg to get me through the pandemic, and also my business didn't suffer that much.  Just found it interesting because the Maxwells don't strike me as the type that would take government assistance.  

They strike me as the types that will take it.  They also strike me as the types who will judge others negatively for taking it.

[ElizaB]

On 2/16/2022 at 10:16 PM, FloraDoraDolly said:

I am actually surprised that Abby is allowed to have this much contact with other children. When her reversal aunts and uncles were her age, they were doing the nursing home church. Anna and Mary didn't start their children's ministry until they were young adults. No way would have Steve allowed them to do that at 13.

It is also interesting that she clearly see's herself as a "helper" in this good news club and not a participant. From blog photos there were kids that were about 13 as "members." This really show the superiority they feel as "saved" Christians that Abby would be so much above these other children. It is actually very sad for her. I am sure she sees these kids having fun together and can't join; but probably doesn't feel completely with the leaders either.  

[Cults-r-us]

On 2/15/2022 at 3:24 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

There are so many fundie stories of 4 and 5 year olds accepting Jesus and being baptized. Someone like Jill comes to mind. I always thought a kid that young has no idea what they are talking about when they are accepting Jesus into their hearts. They just want to please their parents. 

Although occasionally I meet someone who shares they remember their religious experience "letting Jesus into my heart" at that age.

I, full of remorse I had not got baby Cults baptized, took the by then toddler Cults to our Methodist preacher to talk to him about getting baptized. It must have frightened her, because she informed our minister that not only would she not not be getting baptized, she would not be letting Jesus into her heart! 

[MamaJunebug]

Lutheran leaders have explained that “believer’s baptism” is a very recent development in Christianity, but I don’t recall the exact year. Want to say, sometime in the early 19th century. 
 

Wikipedia, bless it, has a pretty good article on the subject.  To their credit, they acknowledge that they don’t have a source to cite that the majority of Christian denominations continue to practice infant baptism.  As well as adult baptism for new believers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_baptism
 

Intriguing that the article mentions a movement by people who say infant baptism wrongly forces membership in the Roman Catholic Church on those who can’t reject it. Now I understand why my beloved trad Catholic friend celebrates each grandchild’s baptism with “Welcome to the church!”

As I was taught, baptism is something God does for us, through the church / believers. A layperson can baptize someone and it’s valid. 
 

The Lutheran Church Missouri Sybil’s disappoints me in its attitude toward women’s leadership and reproductive rights, but it has good info on why it teaches what it teaches. 
 

Here’s a link to its explanation of its doctrine of baptizing itty bitties.

Lutheran infant baptism

Edited February 19, 2022 by MamaJunebug

[Black Aliss]

11 hours ago, theologygeek said:

Just found it interesting because the Maxwells don't strike me as the type that would take government assistance.  

Fundies are only against government assistance that goes to people they feel don't deserve it.

[JermajestyDuggar]

28 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

Fundies are only against government assistance that goes to people they feel don't deserve it.

That’s what Scameritan is so popular with the fundies. 

[FloraDoraDolly]

4 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

Fundies are only against government assistance that goes to people they feel don't deserve it.

Fundies-- and working-class white people in general-- view government assistance as something shameful. If you take it, you don't admit it. If you do admit it, the people around you will look down on you, even if *they* are on government aid. It's part of the culture more so than a religious thing.

[bluelady]

The church I attended, the United Church of Canada, does infant baptism but it's seen as a promise made by the parents to raise the child in the church and for church members to support the parents in raising the child as a believer.   They're clear that it doesn't affect the salvation of the child at all.  Confirmation, at 14 or 15 years old, is when the child chooses to join the church.  I got confirmed, which was a bit silly looking back.  My family weren't huge on attending church and I can count on 2 hands the number of times I've been to church since, mostly for weddings and funerals. But, it was something you just did, so I did it.

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

Fundies-- and working-class white people in general-- view government assistance as something shameful. If you take it, you don't admit it. If you do admit it, the people around you will look down on you, even if *they* are on government aid. It's part of the culture more so than a religious thing.

This will give some perspective on government assistance in America. My mom was a social worker for job and family services and she STILL qualified for government assistance! It wasn’t a lot. But she still qualified for some based on her income. Yep, the government didn’t even pay their employee enough to stay off of government assistance. It’s not like she had 10 kids. She had 2! That makes you think. 

[FiveAcres]

From what I understand, a lot of lower ranked military families qualify for government assistance. 

[GreenBeans]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:35 PM, fundiewatch said:

Small aside— Mary and Anna have been given an extraordinary amount of praise on the blog for their Operation Shoebox (is that the name?) efforts, which, aside from how problematic Samaritan‘s Purse is, are really pretty shitty example’s of Christ’s love. They buy cheap, mass produced shit on deep clearance after the holidays. Sorry, poor kids, you can’t tell that these pencils are out of season and don’t sharpen. Dollar store stuffies are good enough for you.

Worst case, these poor kids (or their parents) might be ones working in the exact factories manufacturing mass-produced shit for the US, at atrocious wages and working conditions, all so that a set of pencils or a stuffie can be purchased at a dollar in the US. But seeing these kinds of connections won’t happen for fundies. They don’t even realize that, even leaving religion aside, they’re doing more harm than good.