Maxwell 52: Retired Vests, Retired Blog, and Retired Maxwells

[ElizaB]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Maybe the younger girls had a better education, but Sarah, the family writer and author of children’s books, was a terrible writer. Now maybe language arts was not Sarah’s forte, but her writing reflected an education of about a 3rd grade level. I could see Steve deciding that each child would be given a task that would improve a skill that he felt needing strengthening, and in Sarah’s case, this was writing.

I find Sarah's writing to be interesting. It is bad in that it is not creative and not interesting to read; however, it is not bad in that she is writing things incorrectly. Yes, she makes the occasional grammar mistake; but, I have a masters degree from a real life university and also make grammar mistakes. If a proofreader went through her writing they wouldn't find a ton of mistakes. An editor; however, would say it was boring and not a good read. 

I think the Maxwell kids were taught all the "rules" and all the "facts" (although not about evolution of course). However, I don't think they were taught creativity, critical thinking, or problem solving.

I do think (as we have discussed before) that they were taught to be extremely hard workers.  Teri once said that her kids did every single problem in their math textbook. This is A LOT of problems they had to do. 

I am not surprised that Mary and Anna are doing well at school. I imagine with their not horrible education and extremely hard work ethic they have no problem getting what needs to be done done. 

[SassyPants]

My biggest issue with Sarah’s writing was the Syntax. Often times her sentence structure was so convoluted and clunky, the message she might have been attempting to convey was lost. 

[Bassett Lady]

52 minutes ago, ElizaB said:

Teri once said that her kids did every single problem in their math textbook. This is A LOT of problems they had to do. 

I believe they did Saxon math which typically only has 120 lessons per book and then weekly tests. The curriculum is meant to be done completely, cover to cover.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

On 1/24/2022 at 11:11 AM, anjulibai said:

I'm pretty sure Teri still drinks coffee. 

I'm guessing that Steve doesn't ban coffee because a) he looks AND b) he associates it with staying awake to work and being somewhat healthy (it is, but in certain circumstances).

I think Teri overexaggerates her addiction and I think Steve didn't personally like Pepsi enough and didn't see it's nutritional value or it's value to working. 

BTW, Sarah being 40 is kind of nuts to me. I'm only 2 years younger than her, and I've been following the blog since we were both in our mid-20s. 

SAME! I can’t believe I’ve been on FJ for so long. Most of my adult life. Many a night duty was spent on FJ. I only occasionally check in now but it’s crazy to me I’ve been on it since TWOP days. 

[theologygeek]

My personal opinion is that the college is more of a "we'll babysit your adult child and make them think you are letting them out so they won't rebel" kind of school.  I doubt the Maxwell children received a good homeschooling education.  The college is probably a lot easier to get A's in than at other schools.  If you look at all the rules for that school, it's not a real college.  It's a babysitting service for adults who wanted out of the house.  On another note, scroll through the comments on that facebook post about the President's List.  The Leavenworth fan club came out to cheer Mary and Anna on.  They probably mentioned it at church.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 minutes ago, theologygeek said:

My personal opinion is that the college is more of a "we'll babysit your adult child and make them think you are letting them out so they won't rebel" kind of school.  I doubt the Maxwell children received a good homeschooling education.  The college is probably a lot easier to get A's in than at other schools.  If you look at all the rules for that school, it's not a real college.  It's a babysitting service for adults who wanted out of the house.  On another note, scroll through the comments on that facebook post about the President's List.  The Leavenworth fan club came out to cheer Mary and Anna on.  They probably mentioned it at church.  

Just checked and I'm pleasantly surprised it's accredited.

A brief glance at their site, and I may be wrong, but it doesn't scream rigorous academics to me, but I think the real benefit to them is the socialization and independence, such as it is.

11 hours ago, SassyPants said:

My biggest issue with Sarah’s writing was the Syntax. Often times her sentence structure was so convoluted and clunky, the message she might have been attempting to convey was lost. 

I'm not defending Sarah's writing as she never should have been doing it professionally, but I've known so many people in the work force with impressive educations who are as bad if not worse.  

I entered the work force later in life as I was a SAHM for a long time, but I was immediately disabused of my assumption that being able to write well was a universal skill when I got my first professional job.

[BigSandy]

On 2/6/2022 at 10:01 AM, HoneyBunny said:

I love that pic of Anna!  Shorter hair, genuine smile. I hope she is as happy as she appears to be and isn’t just functioning as a chaperone to Mary. 

Me too! And Mary barely has sleeves on her top. Good for them!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

22 minutes ago, BigSandy said:

Me too! And Mary barely has sleeves on her top. Good for them!

Only with fundies can we applaud the bravery of wearing cap sleeves, scandals be damned!

[Hane]

@ElizaB and @SassyPants, I die a little inside when I think of Stevehovah’s smug pronouncement, “My children don’t read—they write.” Scuse me, douchebag, but it’s almost impossible to learn how to write good fiction or narrative without reading from a wide variety of good writers.

[SassyPants]

6 hours ago, theologygeek said:

My personal opinion is that the college is more of a "we'll babysit your adult child and make them think you are letting them out so they won't rebel" kind of school.  I doubt the Maxwell children received a good homeschooling education.  The college is probably a lot easier to get A's in than at other schools.  If you look at all the rules for that school, it's not a real college.  It's a babysitting service for adults who wanted out of the house.  On another note, scroll through the comments on that facebook post about the President's List.  The Leavenworth fan club came out to cheer Mary and Anna on.  They probably mentioned it at church.  

Just my perspective after having attended and graduated from a fully accredited Jesuit University, albeit in the 70s…not all classes require the same level of rigor to achieve outstanding grades. I have a BSN, so lots of science and technical classes. In my program, every nursing class, test, quiz had to be passed  with an 80% or better. That means 1 quiz with a 70% and you’ve failed the course. It was intense. Since this was a Catholic university, you also had to take theology and philosophy courses to graduate. The Theo classes were far fluffier than the science or philosophy courses. 

More recently when my daughter was in college and a science major, she graduated with honors, but not highest honors. There were no science majors who graduated with highest honors that year. Yes, everyone has their academic  strengthens, and I am sure there are people for whom Advanced Calculus is easier than Theology, but I’m sure those folks are few in number.

Before I’d get too excited about highest honors, I’d have to know the course work taken.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Just my perspective after having attended and graduated from a fully accredited Jesuit University, albeit in the 70s…not all classes require the same level of rigor to achieve outstanding grades. I have a BSN, so lots of science and technical classes. In my program, every nursing class, test, quiz had to be passed  with an 80% or better. That means 1 quiz with a 70% and you’ve failed the course. It was intense. Since this was a Catholic university, you also had to take theology and philosophy courses to graduate. The Theo classes were far fluffier than the science or philosophy courses. 

More recently when my daughter was in college and a science major, she graduated with honors, but not highest honors. There were no science majors who graduated with highest honors that year. Yes, everyone has their academic  strengthens, and I am sure there are people for whom Advanced Calculus is easier than Theology, but I’m sure those folks are few in number.

Before I’d get too excited about highest honors, I’d have to know the course work taken.

Fwiw I'll put the fluffiest of Jesuit courses against any class covered by one of these bible colleges based on the results I've seen.

I'm cool with my doctor or lawyer having graduated from Loyola, but not from Appalachian Bible College or Liberty.

[Bastet]

On 2/6/2022 at 1:11 PM, MomJeans said:

will, however, never forget Terri's homeschooling post about using white-out to remove the names of Egyptian gods from their Rod & Staff curriculum.

As the Egyptian goddess of cats, I will bar her from the afterlife for her blasphemy!

[Bluebirdbluebell]

32 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Just my perspective after having attended and graduated from a fully accredited Jesuit University, albeit in the 70s…not all classes require the same level of rigor to achieve outstanding grades. I have a BSN, so lots of science and technical classes. In my program, every nursing class, test, quiz had to be passed  with an 80% or better. That means 1 quiz with a 70% and you’ve failed the course. It was intense. Since this was a Catholic university, you also had to take theology and philosophy courses to graduate. The Theo classes were far fluffier than the science or philosophy courses. 

More recently when my daughter was in college and a science major, she graduated with honors, but not highest honors. There were no science majors who graduated with highest honors that year. Yes, everyone has their academic  strengthens, and I am sure there are people for whom Advanced Calculus is easier than Theology, but I’m sure those folks are few in number.

Before I’d get too excited about highest honors, I’d have to know the course work taken.

The college is accredited. I have to admit I don't think much of an unaccredited college like the Bates go to, because without accreditation the college has no accountability. Here's some more information on why accreditation is important.

Beyond that, this sounds like education snobbery and elitism. It shouldn't necessarily matter where someone went to school.  If a friend of yours said they were proud of their kid doing well in community college; how would you react?

People go to schools that fit their values, desires, and budget. Not everyone can go to a fancy school or will study the same things. People have different abilities and educational backgrounds. 

I'm thrilled Anna and Mary were able to move out and go to an accredited school. I'm thrilled they are able to keep up with the work (whatever it may be) and succeed. It may encourage their little nieces (and nephews) to go to higher education, because their aunts tried it and were successful. 

If someone told me they were doing well in school, I would say good for them and move on, not grill them about the workload.

 *

[Black Aliss]

On 2/6/2022 at 3:57 PM, MomJeans said:

She said it was okay for the kids to learn that the Egyptians believed in gods, but not okay for them to learn the gods' names.  

How did they manage to cope with days of the week? Did they rename them all to Lordsday, washday, beansday,  windowday, floorsday, cabinetday, fanday? Did they also rename the planets?

I remember hearing some talibangelist go off on why drawings that depicted animals wearing clothes were bad and I think it had to do with the impure thoughts that children might experience when they saw animals in real life that were not wearing clothes.

20 hours ago, ElizaB said:

I find Sarah's writing to be interesting. It is bad in that it is not creative and not interesting to read; however, it is not bad in that she is writing things incorrectly. Yes, she makes the occasional grammar mistake; but, I have a masters degree from a real life university and also make grammar mistakes. If a proofreader went through her writing they wouldn't find a ton of mistakes. An editor; however, would say it was boring and not a good read. 

My gripe is that the dialog is stilted. It's not the way kids talk. So, while her writing may follow all the rules of grammar, it's not engaging. Unless it's all you're allowed to read.

It reminds me of The Boxcar Children books, which were first published in the 1920's. The children never used contractions in their speech. I assume the author,who was a first grade teacher meant the books to be edifying. I understand new books in the series released every year. I wonder if the 21st century books are a little less stick-up-the-butt than the originals

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

The college is accredited. I have to admit I don't think much of an unaccredited college like the Bates go to, because without accreditation the college has no accountability. Here's some more information on why accreditation is important.

Beyond that, this sounds like education snobbery and elitism. It shouldn't necessarily matter where someone went to school.  If a friend of yours said they were proud of their kid doing well in community college; how would you react?

People go to schools that fit their values, desires, and budget. Not everyone can go to a fancy school or will study the same things. People have different abilities and educational backgrounds. 

I'm thrilled Anna and Mary were able to move out and go to an accredited school. I'm thrilled they are able to keep up with the work (whatever it may be) and succeed. It may encourage their little nieces (and nephews) to go to higher education, because their aunts tried it and were successful. 

If someone told me they were doing well in school, I would say good for them and move on, not grill them about the workload.

 *

Nowhere did I indicate that I thought less of the institution. In fact, I admitted  that I also attended a religious institution, so I’m confused at your reply. I will stand by my thoughts that fluffier courses of study are easier to get top marks, for most people, vs those that requirer harder courses. Now if Mary and Anna are on a  pre- med or aeronautical engineering track, I’ll tip my cap to them. 

[theologygeek]

14 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Fwiw I'll put the fluffiest of Jesuit courses against any class covered by one of these bible colleges based on the results I've seen.

I'm cool with my doctor or lawyer having graduated from Loyola, but not from Appalachian Bible College or Liberty.

I agree with you and @SassyPants  One of the most brilliant men I knew graduated from Fairfield University.  If the Maxwell girls didn't do well at ABC, something would be seriously wrong.  They had bible time 24/7 at their house.  Boston College, Holy Cross, Fairfield Univ, Loyola, are all Jesuit schools, and not only are they hard to get into, but they are excellent schools.  

[theologygeek]

14 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Beyond that, this sounds like education snobbery and elitism. It shouldn't necessarily matter where someone went to school.  If a friend of yours said they were proud of their kid doing well in community college; how would you react?

Two of my kids have Master's degrees.  They both started at community college and then went on to well known universities.  Lots of kids do that because it's cheaper, including an acquaintance's son who was valedictorian in high school.  Not only did they knock out a lot of tuition and get core classes out of the way, but they both got better scholarships after community college.  My daughter said that some of her hardest classes were at community college.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with community college. and it's not as easy as the label that's attached to it.  Don't assume the posts were about educational elitism.  

[HereticHick]

12 hours ago, SassyPants said:

 I will stand by my thoughts that fluffier courses of study are easier to get top marks, for most people, vs those that requirer harder courses. 

But we have all have different strengths and ways of learning--what is "fluffy" to you may be extremely difficult to me.  Political Science and History  and Geology and Archeology and are a breeze for me--taking a Intermediate Greek course at ABC, or "Introduction to Clinical Radiography"  at my local community college, would be much more difficult.

[fundiefan]

Anna & Mary are in Bible college. One where every degree includes "missions". 

They grew up with Stevie boy - they had family bible time twice a day and personal bible time at least one a day on the schedule. Basically, they know their bible. 

I imagine it's relatively easy for them to get through classes about the bible. Steve made sure they know more about the bible than anything else. 

[Jana814]

20 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

 

I imagine it's relatively easy for them to get through classes about the bible. Steve made sure they know more about the bible than anything else. 

He definitely did. He didn’t prepare them for the outside world which he should have done. 

[smittykins]

What was their rationale for not wanting them to read about sports?  Too much f*n?

Edited February 8, 2022 by smittykins

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, theologygeek said:

Two of my kids have Master's degrees.  They both started at community college and then went on to well known universities.  Lots of kids do that because it's cheaper, including an acquaintance's son who was valedictorian in high school.  Not only did they knock out a lot of tuition and get core classes out of the way, but they both got better scholarships after community college.  My daughter said that some of her hardest classes were at community college.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with community college. and it's not as easy as the label that's attached to it.  Don't assume the posts were about educational elitism.  

Mine also went to CC to get core classes out of the way cheaper before moving on to well ranked universities.  I have no issues with CC whatever, not sure where that's coming from.

3 minutes ago, smittykins said:

What was their rationale for not wanting them to read about sports?  Too much f*n?

Well this is a man who cried when Christopher or Nathan (both?  I forget) when forcing them to quit the sports team they were on (before they went off the deep end and they were in school) because it was taking the place of God or something like that.

I know I just butchered this story, hopefully someone can correct me.  But yes, sports are too fun and take your mind away from the Lord.  

My interpretation is Steve enjoyed watching sports and so of course it had to be banned for everyone lest they waste their life in front of the beast.

[ElizaB]

3 hours ago, fundiefan said:

Anna & Mary are in Bible college. One where every degree includes "missions". 

They grew up with Stevie boy - they had family bible time twice a day and personal bible time at least one a day on the schedule. Basically, they know their bible. 

I imagine it's relatively easy for them to get through classes about the bible. Steve made sure they know more about the bible than anything else. 

I wonder how Bible classes are taught at their college. It seems that their Bible education was a lot of memorization and parroting their Dad's thoughts. I don't think they were ever allowed to think or interpret any of it for themselves. I ABC requires them to interpret text for themselves I would imagine that they would find this process hard as it is something that is completely knew. 

My sister married a man from Puerto Rico so her kids have been raised bilingual. My nephew was complaining once about Spanish Class in junior high and how he was doing poorly. I kind of laughed and was like, how is a seventh grade spanish class hard for you? You literally speak it. But he told me he knew a lot of "wrong" spanish- bad grammar and such- that his dad always spoke. He said he had some improper ways of speaking ingrained in his head and it was really hard to break these habits he had since he learned to talk. I wonder if Mary and Anna have some Bible "habits" engrained in them that are hard to break too. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

32 minutes ago, ElizaB said:

I wonder how Bible classes are taught at their college. It seems that their Bible education was a lot of memorization and parroting their Dad's thoughts. I don't think they were ever allowed to think or interpret any of it for themselves. I ABC requires them to interpret text for themselves I would imagine that they would find this process hard as it is something that is completely knew. 

My sister married a man from Puerto Rico so her kids have been raised bilingual. My nephew was complaining once about Spanish Class in junior high and how he was doing poorly. I kind of laughed and was like, how is a seventh grade spanish class hard for you? You literally speak it. But he told me he knew a lot of "wrong" spanish- bad grammar and such- that his dad always spoke. He said he had some improper ways of speaking ingrained in his head and it was really hard to break these habits he had since he learned to talk. I wonder if Mary and Anna have some Bible "habits" engrained in them that are hard to break too. 

That's a very interesting point.  I wouldn't be surprised if they struggled with stepping outside Steve's absolute interpretation.  If one of them comes to a different conclusion on scripture I'd hope Steve would engage in the discussion.

For anyone interested Yale's department of religion has classes on the bible as literature on youtube and they're very interesting.  It's not based on any religion, but reading the bible and understanding the difference genres, and the historical and political context in which the different books were written.  

[SassyPants]

10 hours ago, HereticHick said:

But we have all have different strengths and ways of learning--what is "fluffy" to you may be extremely difficult to me.  Political Science and History  and Geology and Archeology and are a breeze for me--taking a Intermediate Greek course at ABC, or "Introduction to Clinical Radiography"  at my local community college, would be much more difficult.

Yes, and I acknowledged that in my initial post. However, I still think more people are going to find a class that one could ace with rote memorization easier than a class with more abstract or complex  information. You know why they require premeds to take the highest level math classes, right? It is definitely to weed people out. It’s not like your kids’ pediatrician needs to solve a complex physics problem in order to diagnosis an ear infection. Something that requires multiple steps and critical thinking is just harder to master for most folks. Again, I have no idea what the sisters are studying.

My friend is a pharmacist and 6 of her siblings are physicians, as was her dad. She is also married to a physician. I trust her on this one. She doesn’t believe most professionals need higher than HS level math. Most use computers for computation these days. I always told my kids that you have to understand the concepts so when you do a problem at your job (or wherever) on the computer,  you know if an answer could possibly be true or not.

Edited February 9, 2022 by SassyPants