Duggars by the Dozen 43: One in Jail, Another Made Bail, and a Senate Election Fail

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

Josie's 12 and the other school age kids are all in their teens. Whatever schoolwork is being done is probably online at this point. And aside from the nephew the rest are all girls so they don't need to know much more anyway.

Didn't I read Jessa was moving to a big house, no doubt as a reward for being Most Loyal Daughter? Ben's doing great stuff, attacking the gays and all (gotta stay on the right side of history!) but I'd be a little worried if I were her about the level of dependency he has on the perjuring, naked emperor who is seeing his kingdom crash all around him. But it was so nice of him to shell out waste all that money for Josh's defense.     

Edited December 15, 2021 by Anne Of Gray Gables

[Freejin]

16 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Josie's 12 and the other school age kids are all in their teens. Whatever schoolwork is being done is probably online at this point. And aside from the nephew the rest are all girls so they don't need to know much more anyway.

Didn't I read Jessa was moving to a big house, no doubt as a reward for being Most Loyal Daughter? Ben's doing great stuff, attacking the gays and all (gotta stay on the right side of history!) but I'd be a little worried if I were her about the level of dependency he has on the perjuring, naked emperor who is seeing his kingdom crash all around him. But it was so nice of him to shell out waste all that money for Josh's defense.     

Curious if anyone knows. What do you think those legal fees would be, approximately? In the 10k’s? 100ks?

[breakfree]

I think if anyone is going to be able to really take over the brand as it was and manage to monetize it it will actually be Joe and Kendra.  They've managed to so far remain largely inoffensive and under the radar; they seem wholesome and act like they love each other and their kids. No inopportunely timed rants about gay people; no involvement in their family scandals or drama.

They are also so far outprocreating all the other marrieds by an impressive margin. If (big if) they maintain their current pace they could easily have 9 or even 10 (or more 🤢) kids by 2030; Kendra would still only be 31 with 10 years of childbearing remaining to her. By then Jessa will be 37 and at her current pace will likely have at most 8 or 9 kids total with perhaps 2 more to come and a husband who will doubtless have spent the last decade unable to shut his mouth and stop being a tool. It's a no brainer who would be better situated to take over the brand if nothing changes between now and then. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

Just now, Freejin said:

Curious if anyone knows. What do you think those legal fees would be, approximately? In the 10k’s? 100ks?

A lot, for sure. He had multiple attorneys and took it all the way to trial.

I think I read here that Emily Baker said it was probably close to one million. It was over 500k pre-trial.  

[breakfree]

1 minute ago, Freejin said:

Curious if anyone knows. What do you think those legal fees would be, approximately? In the 10k’s? 100ks?

Some reputable sources believe that after the trial Josh's legal fees may have totaled a million dollars.

[church_of_dog]

13 hours ago, TuringMachine said:

Oh looks like 270towin is calling Fulfer and Unger as the "winners", I assume that means both are going to a runoff election.

It took me a moment to grasp that it wasn't John-David's towing company that was making these calls.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

12 minutes ago, breakfree said:

I think if anyone is going to be able to really take over the brand as it was and manage to monetize it it will actually be Joe and Kendra.  They've managed to so far remain largely inoffensive and under the radar; they seem wholesome and act like they love each other and their kids. No inopportunely timed rants about gay people; no involvement in their family scandals or drama.

I think the Duggar dream is over. Jim Bob's probably still loaded though, so I'm sure some will keep on hanging on to him. If they can tolerate the stench. 

[breakfree]

3 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I think the Duggar dream is over. Jim Bob's probably still loaded though, so I'm sure some will keep on hanging on to him. If they can tolerate the stench. 

I certainly hope it is over!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

I still think Jessa is angling her way in to taking over the Duggar brand. And probably the TTH also. Keep just enough in Jim Bob's good graces while the others are not so much, be around more and more, and it wouldn't take much to move the parents and the two youngest girls into a smaller house in a couple years while filling the TTH with little plants and preachers. Anna's a wild card, but she's got the warehouse, and Josh is gone for a while. Jana wouldn't be difficult to handle, if she's treated decently and given a room or house somewhere and allowed to keep her garden. I think Jessa has a plan.

Don't forget that was right around the Reber/Keller wedding, so there were quite a few attendees from Florida there and probably a few other out-of-town fundies. Not all the attendees were local voters.

As long as they vote for who their headship tells them too, voting is encouraged.

Yeah I think there's not much parenting going on from the parents, and probably hasn't been for years and years. Jana's raised a bunch of children to adulthood already, and kind of seems over it herself - plus she's probably pulling a lot of weight with the M kids, with Anna having a newborn and Josh gone. And the youngest Duggar kids are all teenagers or almost there (Josie just turned 12, right?). I'd bet the kids are largely raising themselves, with Jana as their main adult if something goes wrong.

If Jessa is counting on the Duggar brand she better have a plan B.

I agree with all of this except that Josh being gone is a factor in how much help Anna needs with the M's.  I doubt he was ever actually helpful and more like an additional giant child so him being gone means less work.  

I think of of the biggest results of this season of life for them is that JB will never, ever allow an educated guy to court any of the lost girls.  He'll get someone as crippled with lack of education and prospects as his own sons, from a fundy family with a business so he doesn't have to put another SIL on payroll.  

Derek and Jeremy are certainly problematic in many ways, but they were raised outside of the IBLP bubble and saw the seriousness of the abuse and the CSAM charges.  He's not going to let anyone smart enough to flip on the party line like this again.  

25 minutes ago, breakfree said:

Some reputable sources believe that after the trial Josh's legal fees may have totaled a million dollars.

I've seen that figure too, but not sourced.  I'm having a hard time wondering why it would be that high as they couldn't get high priced experts on the stand and the investigation of vetting discovery wasn't out of the ordinary.

I think the defense did the best they could with what they had, which was nothing, but I can't see how it would justify a mil.  Although if they overcharged because JB and his predator don't know any better than I am delighted.  

[Beermeet]

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Looks like the Seewalds are taking a passive aggressive stand.

Omg, shut up Ben!   Ben only takes a stand against people he doesn't know, people minding their own business using his Bible.   He should focus on his own family.

Has Ben's dad written a essay on this yet or did he give up a couple of scandals ago? 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

30 minutes ago, breakfree said:

I think if anyone is going to be able to really take over the brand as it was and manage to monetize it it will actually be Joe and Kendra.  They've managed to so far remain largely inoffensive and under the radar; they seem wholesome and act like they love each other and their kids. No inopportunely timed rants about gay people; no involvement in their family scandals or drama.

Trying to say this nicely....I don't think they have the business acumen to head the cult.  I think they could make relatively inoffensive puppets, but neither of them could pull the strings.

You need to know enough about finances to be able to know if your handlers are fleecing you.  They wouldn't be the Gene Simmons of the fundy world, they'd be TLC.

53 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Didn't I read Jessa was moving to a big house, no doubt as a reward for being Most Loyal Daughter?

Does anyone know approximately what she may be pulling in with her social media influencing stuff?  

I hope when the dust settles at some point the others look at the choices made my siblings and see that being financially independent from the family is the only way they'll have options.  

[imokit]

23 minutes ago, breakfree said:

I think if anyone is going to be able to really take over the brand as it was and manage to monetize it it will actually be Joe and Kendra.  They've managed to so far remain largely inoffensive and under the radar; they seem wholesome and act like they love each other and their kids. No inopportunely timed rants about gay people; no involvement in their family scandals or drama.

The problem with those two is that they are the least charismatic of all the couples.  Even on the show, Joe was quiet and had among the least airtime.

While they look to be the best and breeding and not offending anyone, they don't have the charisma (or brains) to monetise.  JB & M are clever, and can talk well.  Jessa is clever and engaging when she speaks.  Joe is not.

The brand will go to someone who's toeing the line, but also preaching and engaging people.  At the moment it looks like Jessa.

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I think of of the biggest results of this season of life for them is that JB will never, ever allow an educated guy to court any of the lost girls.  He'll get someone as crippled with lack of education and prospects as his own sons, from a fundy family with a business so he doesn't have to put another SIL on payroll. 

Derek and Jeremy are certainly problematic in many ways, but they were raised outside of the IBLP bubble and saw the seriousness of the abuse and the CSAM charges.  He's not going to let anyone smart enough to flip on the party line like this again.  

This is where Austin and Joy need watching carefully.  Austin was raised very close to the fundy bubble.  He went to that trial with Joy and its incredibly that it has effected them both.  Austin and Joy are thinking very hard right now, and depending on where that thinking takes them, it could lead to them drifting/pulling away.

If Austin and Joy break free or drift off (ideally before Hannie is of marrying age) it could lead to JB giving up and not doubling down the vetting.

Of all the SILs, Austin is the ideal one on paper.  If he starts questioning JB in public (or even in private), then the argument against educated SILs becomes mute.  In which case JB will either not care, or he will care that a husband will support the new family without him.  We've actually seen that a bit with Justin, who despite being a male has been married to a girl who's father will find work for Justin so JB doesn't have to.

I think at this point it could go either way.  It will also depend on how feral the lost girls are and how much energy JB & M have spent breaking them.  Plus they will have less fear to break.  They know that if they rebel they won't loose everyone because they will at the least have Jill.

[Coconut Flan]

43 minutes ago, Freejin said:

Curious if anyone knows. What do you think those legal fees would be, approximately? In the 10k’s? 100ks?

$500K and up.  With the trial going longer than expected it could easily have gone $750K.  A million is possible, but on the upper end.

Now if JB decides to throw more money at an appeal....

Edited December 15, 2021 by Coconut Flan

[Cam]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

In terms of Jessa taking over the brand…the brand is about mass, irresponsible procreation and an odd living style. The Seewalds, on their own, do not meet the criteria and are years away from meeting the number that would attract an audience. Besides, the mega family has been done, check. What other unique genre could they fill to entertain or interest an audience? How to have and raise lots of cute kids in a 2 bedroom house without either adult having a job?  The Seewalds have zero niche skills to continue any sort of brand. They have 4, not forty kids, and besides, I don’t think anyone is interested in that game any more. Now, if they stopped all the craziness, moved mainstream and had a show on how you can move from the crazy in a healthy way, get your acts together and solely support your family without your daddy, I might tune in, at least for a peek.

Plus they don’t carry Duggar as a last name

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

I don’t think it’s simply because Derrick  just became this awesome tell it like it is guy who feels a pressing need to speak out.  Jim Bob is not the popular speaker, TV personality and “Christian paragon” any more and is not financially supporting them like he was several years. The Duggar’s are going down fast and Dillard feels safe talking now as He don’t need the Duggar tit anymore. Hell, it makes him look superior to boot! 

I get the impression that Derrick is the type who likes “causes” and “tell the truth about JB” was his “cause.”  He may turn out a very good lawyer.

[breakfree]

22 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

I've seen that figure too, but not sourced.  I'm having a hard time wondering why it would be that high as they couldn't get high priced experts on the stand and the investigation of vetting discovery wasn't out of the ordinary.

I think the defense did the best they could with what they had, which was nothing, but I can't see how it would justify a mil.  Although if they overcharged because JB and his predator don't know any better than I am delighted.  

The lawyers could easily be charging 400 dollars per hour EACH. Were there 2 at court during the trial or 3? If 3, for court time during the trial ALONE and not considering any other work they did or further time spent out of court on those days, you're looking at over 100,000 dollars. Just for the time sitting in court! Add in prior court appearances, all research and legal briefings and discovery and time interviewing people beforehand and speaking to Josh and you're looking at an enormous bill. Good lawyers are very very expensive. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by breakfree

[Snowless]

I was messaging a friend of mine about JB’s election loss a little bit ago, and every time I went to type “Jim Bob”, it seemed my finger would tap on the N key instead of the B key, as if my subconscious wanted to call him “Jim Nob” or “Jim Knob”.  Just a thing that happened this morning that made me want to crack up.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Some of the Duggar kids can definitely rebrand and if they do it right, they could be successful. Influencers rebrand all the time. I’m just unsure of who has the ability amongst the kids. 

[Cam]

57 minutes ago, breakfree said:

I think if anyone is going to be able to really take over the brand as it was and manage to monetize it it will actually be Joe and Kendra.  They've managed to so far remain largely inoffensive and under the radar; they seem wholesome and act like they love each other and their kids. No inopportunely timed rants about gay people; no involvement in their family scandals or drama.

They are also so far outprocreating all the other marrieds by an impressive margin. If (big if) they maintain their current pace they could easily have 9 or even 10 (or more 🤢) kids by 2030; Kendra would still only be 31 with 10 years of childbearing remaining to her. By then Jessa will be 37 and at her current pace will likely have at most 8 or 9 kids total with perhaps 2 more to come and a husband who will doubtless have spent the last decade unable to shut his mouth and stop being a tool. It's a no brainer who would be better situated to take over the brand if nothing changes between now and then. 

Which I’m sure would tick Jessa off to have a younger brother be given the reins. But JB is all about the patriarchy and probly believes blood is thicker than water, so he’d go with a male Duggar. Might be stringing Jessa and Ben on, tho. They might be in for a rough comeuppance. 

I don’t follow the JoKendra story but I know she’s pumping them out with rumors another is already on the way. I’ve always thought the young Duggar women were in competition with each other to see who can produce the most kids; I’d put Jessa, Kendra and Anna all in that group. I’m sure at one time Anna thought she and Josh would be heir apparents.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Cam

[kmachete14]

am I the only one who never thought Austin and Joy were theologically in line with her parents? Austin's parents don't have a bunch of kids. They didn't "grift," they have a business with family camp. Austin actually works with a construction/flipping company. They have spoken on those BS freedom podcasts. I always assumed Austin was more the America/freedom/guns/hunting/bluecollar/originalist kind of conservative Christian, not whatever Jim Bob could be described as. If Joy and Austin "break free" they will be free from IBLP/ATI nonsense perhaps, but they will jump right into white nationalism etc. 

[EmmieJ]

2 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Ben  is dependent on the Duggar brand and money out of all the SILs. 

Ben has been firmly under JB's thumb from the start, when he was what, barely 18 and moved onto their property so he could spend more time "getting to know" Jessa.   He's got a good thing going - a house to live in that he didn't have to pay for, some sort of financial support from JB so he can feed and clothe his growing family, and gets to play at being a pastor (is that correct - I don't follow Ben and Jessa closely but I do remember reading a thread title that referred to Ben being a pastor a some church - is it an actual church building with more than 5 congregants? or is he a pastor in a home church?).  So Ben can STFU any time, since he's just another grifting along on JB's gravy train.  If and when he actually gets a real job, and is no longer dependent on hand outs from JB to support his growing family, then he can offer his opinions, which I will continue to find worthless and lacking in substance.

[Funwithfundies]

It keeps popping into my head that Josh is currently cooling his heels in solitary, oblivious to all the new Duggar drama.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Omg, shut up Ben!   Ben only takes a stand against people he doesn't know, people minding their own business using his Bible.   He should focus on his own family.

Has Ben's dad written a essay on this yet or did he give up a couple of scandals ago? 

I miss your avatar.

I totally forgot about the elder Seewalds SM sermons.  Has anyone checked their SM?  And while it's probably a lost cause, in the hypothetical they ever want to break out didn't his parents own a windshield replacement service where he worked before being purchased by the Duggars?

And if so, they only have 4 kids at this point, is that something that can support a small family if they live frugally?  Her SM won't last forever, but if she's making good money with that now it could get them started.  

And in other Ben news, isn't he a youth pastor or do I have that wrong?  If so this cryptic post and lack of statement about how it's every adults responsibility to protect children and speak out when they know something, given his inlaws, I'd never trust he would be a safe person for my kids to be around.  Not suggesting he would harm a child, but I wouldn't trust him to intervene if he knew something was happening.

31 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Now if JB decides to throw more money at an appeal....

Do you think he will?  Do lawyers have an ethical obligation (professionally) to tell a client to the best of their knowledge if a case is strong or not?  

Like if they feel the case is likely not to win on appeal do they legally have to tell them that and if the client insists take it anyway and give it a shot?  

[Mama Mia]

I think Jessa makes more money off her social media than she would trying to take over whatever is left of the Duggar tv empire. I doubt they need money from JB, although they should get some. She is - obviously - extremely conservative Christian, but she doesn’t come across cloying or adoringly gazing at her headship. Her most popular videos - other than the births- are do it yourself type projects. There are an absolute ton of this family brand of influencer out there - but she’s more watchable than most precisely because she doesn’t constantly talk about how to be perfectly sweet. There’s a lot of “how to pray with your kids” but just as much “how to build a bunk bed” . She also seems frugal and pragmatic, so is probably able to hang on to most of what they make.

Joe isn’t charismatic, but Kendra sure is bubbly and outgoing. She doesn’t seem that interested in social media so far, just a light to average amount of family posting. Interestingly- almost entirely with her family not his. The only time they seem to show up in Duggar social media it’s posted by someone else, at a family gathering. 

[EyesOpen]

51 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

I think of of the biggest results of this season of life for them is that JB will never, ever allow an educated guy to court any of the lost girls.  He'll get someone as crippled with lack of education and prospects as his own sons, from a fundy family with a business so he doesn't have to put another SIL on payroll.  

Derek and Jeremy are certainly problematic in many ways, but they were raised outside of the IBLP bubble and saw the seriousness of the abuse and the CSAM charges.  He's not going to let anyone smart enough to flip on the party line like this again.  

😔 free the lost girls