Erin & Chad 8: Hasbro Paine, Cleveland Paine, Labour Paine

[SassyPants]

Why would it be OK to purposely set up children for educational lagging or failure? That makes no sense to me when there are better choices: moving, private or public school, stop having kids to give better attention and space to the ones you already have. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by SassyPants

[Melissa1977]

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Why would it be OK to purposely set up children for educational lagging or failure? That makes no sense to me when there are better choices: moving, private or public school, stop having kids to give better attention and space to the ones you already have. 

Both Chad and Erin have been raised by parents who believe that schools (even private) are bad, and that mothers MUST homeschool. I doubt they have many friends who went to school and those who went (like Whitney) probably highlight the bad and forget the good. Kelton only went to a private school because her mom died. In short, schools are a unknown, dangerous place and they are convinced that homeschooling is protecting their kids.

Erin grew up in a little house and was homeschooled with 10 siblings in a noisy kitchen ( I mean 10 at the same time) She has her dreamed cottage now and the lack of space may not be a problem for her... She was raised like that.

Of course, other fundies evaluate their upbringing and make different decisions. But Erin seems so happy in her way of life.

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

3 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Of course, other fundies evaluate their upbringing and make different decisions. But Erin seems so happy in her way of life.

Erin's happiness is nice, but she should really start thinking long-term about her kids and their happiness. 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Both Chad and Erin have been raised by parents who believe that schools (even private) are bad, and that mothers MUST homeschool. I doubt they have many friends who went to school and those who went (like Whitney) probably highlight the bad and forget the good. Kelton only went to a private school because her mom died. In short, schools are a unknown, dangerous place and they are convinced that homeschooling is protecting their kids.

Erin grew up in a little house and was homeschooled with 10 siblings in a noisy kitchen ( I mean 10 at the same time) She has her dreamed cottage now and the lack of space may not be a problem for her... She was raised like that.

Of course, other fundies evaluate their upbringing and make different decisions. But Erin seems so happy in her way of life.

 

Chad’s dad is a medical Dr…I am sure he is aware that education is not evil. All parents should raise their children to be active, healthy, participating members of society. Anything sort of that is criminal, IMO!

[Tdoc72]

44 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Chad’s dad is a medical Dr…I am sure he is aware that education is not evil. All parents should raise their children to be active, healthy, participating members of society. Anything sort of that is criminal, IMO!

Wasn’t it Chad’s father/dr who told the IBLP girl who was reporting sexual assault that she need to eat a granola bar or something?  I seem to recall a story like that. 

[Jackie3]

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Based on age, Carson should be in first grade right now and Brooklyn in kindergarten. Everly is preschool age. It won’t be long before she has 4 doing school work each day. 

Don't forget, "doing school" means staring at a screen. Buy four devices, block most websites, and the kids can go off and watch themselves and education. There's no reason they need to sit around the kitchen. If they don't get their work done, Ering/Chad will deal with it in whatever way they deal with disobedience.

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Don't forget, "doing school" means staring at a screen. Buy four devices, block most websites, and the kids can go off and watch themselves and education. There's no reason they need to sit around the kitchen. If they don't get their work done, Ering/Chad will deal with it in whatever way they deal with disobedience.

I think Erin will probably be more hands on for the beginning grades of school. It’s hard to make little kids watch a screen all day for education. Even though kids live screens. They also love hands on activities. 

[SassyPants]

12 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think Erin will probably be more hands on for the beginning grades of school. It’s hard to make little kids watch a screen all day for education. Even though kids live screens. They also love hands on activities. 

I’d really like to know the extent of all these people’s education. What is the level they are educated to competency? We know that Michaela attended college, so she has some more advanced skills, but the rest, Duggars included? Did KJ and M cover HS Math and Sciences or foreign languages? Was it up to the kids to pursue online classes? Was the funding and free time provided for such exploration?

[Melissa1977]

13 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Chad’s dad is a medical Dr…I am sure he is aware that education is not evil. All parents should raise their children to be active, healthy, participating members of society. Anything sort of that is criminal, IMO!

Kelly and Gil have degrees, too. Daniel Webster... Many of them went to school and college but  yes, they think it is evil. Homeschooling is one of the biggest rules of their cult and in no way they want their children attend any kind of school. They don't want their children to be lawyers, doctors or engineers, they prefer self-employed workers because it is godly... I have the feeling that it is also a way to keep mothers stuck at home.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Erin got a degree from Crown in music. That doesn’t mean she can homeschool her kids well. She can probably teach them to play piano. But her degree isn’t going to help her teach high school math to her kids.

[JMO]

Erin said in a video recently that she restricts their online schooling and thinks that the booklets work better for them.   Alyssa is deep into the screen schooling.  KJ encouraged the kids to do sciences/math especially chemistry, which makes sense since she was a chemistry TA in college.  But it's so hypocritical of all these fundies to downplay the importance of education.  As an aside, my husband and I watch sailing channels on YT and there is a family that we recently started following that homeschools (even prior to selling it all and buying a boat).  The teenage kids only spend about an hour daily on their school work and then at 18 they "graduate" from the Texas Homeschool Group, which offers it's own high school diploma.  The kids only seem to do a subject or two at a time, which probably explains why school gets done in an hour.  The oldest went off to college and I would love an interview with her about the change when she had to take several courses at once and schooling was much more intense.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

It would make the most sense for all females in the this group to get an early childhood education degree from an accredited college. Because they are all expected to homeschool all of their children. 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It would make the most sense for all females in the this group to get an early childhood education degree from an accredited college. Because they are all expected to homeschool all of their children. 

You don't need a degree to teach kids well. The best teachers I've encountered did not have degrees. They had other things--a fondness in children, an ability to relate to them, an interest in the subject matter, a knowledge of child development.  You don't need a degree to have those things. 

There are a lot of degreed teachers out there who are bad. Not all of them, but plenty. They entered the field for the vacation time, the summers off, the stable income and graduated salary increase. My daughter's kindergarten teacher made $90,000 in our small rural community where the COL was very low. Her third grade teacher had two pensions (she'd retired from teaching in another state, and started up again in a new one). 

Both were wonderful and I don't begrudge them their money, but there are a lot of perks to being a teacher, and some people enter the field for those perks, thinking the job is "easy." Those are the teachers who loved remote learning because they didn't have to  go in to school, taught their class from a parking lot at a casino or ski resort, and then gave the kids three hours of "work time" every afternoon while they went skiing or played the slots. (This actually happened). They unashamedly jumped the vaccine line before the elderly, thanks to a powerful teachers union. They refused to return to work because of their "fear" of covid but flew on vacations to Aruba. Who could respect teachers like that? These things really happened.

If Erin loves her kids, enjoys interacting with them, and is reasonably intelligent, her kids will be fine till at least 7th grade. They're better off with her than an indifferent, bored instructor who is counting the days till summer, degreed or not.

Degrees to not automatically make you competent or good at a job, worst of all, they do not make you interested in the job you get.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Jackie3

[raayx01]

48 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

You don't need a degree to teach kids well. The best teachers I've encountered did not have degrees. They had other things--a fondness in children, an ability to relate to them, an interest in the subject matter, a knowledge of child development.  You don't need a degree to have those things. 

There are a lot of degreed teachers out there who are bad. Not all of them, but plenty. They entered the field for the vacation time, the summers off, the stable income and graduated salary increase. My daughter's kindergarten teacher made $90,000 in our small rural community where the COL was very low. Her third grade teacher had two pensions (she'd retired from teaching in another state, and started up again in a new one). 

Both were wonderful and I don't begrudge them their money, but there are a lot of perks to being a teacher, and some people enter the field for those perks, thinking the job is "easy." Those are the teachers who loved remote learning because they didn't have to  go in to school, taught their class from a parking lot at a casino or ski resort, and then gave the kids three hours of "work time" every afternoon while they went skiing or played the slots. (This actually happened). They unashamedly jumped the vaccine line before the elderly, thanks to a powerful teachers union. They refused to return to work because of their "fear" of covid but flew on vacations to Aruba. Who could respect teachers like that? These things really happened.

If Erin loves her kids, enjoys interacting with them, and is reasonably intelligent, her kids will be fine till at least 7th grade. They're better off with her than an indifferent, bored instructor who is counting the days till summer, degreed or not.

Degrees to not automatically make you competent or good at a job, worst of all, they do not make you interested in the job you get.

I get that the bates kids homeschooling education wasn't the best because of the curriculum they had, but I'm so tired of people thinking that just because you don't go to college you aren't smart. The constant hope that any of the bates or Duggar kids will go to a real college (especially the girls) is ridiculous. Why do they have to spend thousands of dollars to get a business degree just to please people. Most of them seem to be doing pretty fine without degrees. Carlin got her's in general studies and now runs a successful business. Evan's in trade school. Bobby spent all that money on a ministry degree and he doesn't even use it. Gil has a degree ( I don't know what in) and he doesn't use it. Kelton Has a business degree which might help his business but he doesn't need it. Tori got a teaching degree and she homeschools not only her kids but other kids in the family. The only ones that really need theirs were Josie for her Hair license and  Michaella who went into nursing, but I don't why you would spend all that money and then not use it. College is put way to much on a pedestal, I'm in college and I hate it. I don't know what to study so I'm just going into business and then will probably go into HR. I wish there was more trade schools for girls that wasn't things like construction or plumbing. I also wish I had the skills to create something and open up my own business but I don't.

[Expectopatronus]

@Jackie3 You will find people in every profession who entered for the wrong reasons but your examples are incredibly rare. Where I live, we did not get to jump the queue for the vaccine, online teaching was a lot more work because every lesson plan had to include the curriculum outcomes (the numbered code, the page number, the exact wording in both official languages), every assignment had to include a paragraph rationale and had to be cross listed under the subject tab and assignment tab, we had to be available from 8:30-4:30, hard copies had to be made of everything for parents who don't allow internet access (schools added increased wifi in the parking lots for families who can't afford internet), rubrics had to be in both languages etc... 

You have clearly experienced somethings that have soured you to degreed teachers and I am sorry that happened but most of us have at least two degrees (required where I am), work our tails off, spend thousands of our own money on classroom supplies, snacks for kids etc and struggle financially. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Expectopatronus said:

@Jackie3 You will find people in every profession who entered for the wrong reasons but your examples are incredibly rare. Where I live, we did not get to jump the queue for the vaccine, online teaching was a lot more work because every lesson plan had to include the curriculum outcomes (the numbered code, the page number, the exact wording in both official languages), every assignment had to include a paragraph rationale and had to be cross listed under the subject tab and assignment tab, we had to be available from 8:30-4:30, hard copies had to be made of everything for parents who don't allow internet access (schools added increased wifi in the parking lots for families who can't afford internet), rubrics had to be in both languages etc... 

You have clearly experienced somethings that have soured you to degreed teachers and I am sorry that happened but most of us have at least two degrees (required where I am), work our tails off, spend thousands of our own money on classroom supplies, snacks for kids etc and struggle financially. 

Thank you for all that you do. I appreciate educated, credentialed teachers. A formal education and credential shows that one is knowledgeable of the teaching process, formulated  a life plan and stuck to it ti achieve a goal. AND THAT IS SOMETHING! I am sorry but I don’t think Alyssa Webster is qualified to teach even kindergarten. Sure, life experiences also matter, but aside from raising their parents’ kids what has any of these folks ever truly done or experienced? 

[feministxtian]

10 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I appreciate educated, credentialed teachers. A formal education and credential shows that one is knowledgeable of the teaching process, formulated  a life plan and stuck to it ti achieve a goal.

I do not have a formal teaching degree nor do I have credentials (as of right now). Yet, I teach. I have a niche skill and am not using that skill to go make 75k+ in the corporate world. Why? I'm done with the corporate world. My kids are learning a valuable skill and getting college credit for it. This job literally fell into my lap. A mentor at school (the evil CC) knew someone who knew that my school was looking for an Engineering/Drafting/Design/AutoCAD teacher. As it turns out, for certain niche skills, a teaching credential is not required, just so many years of documented experience and education in that field along with the standard background checks. I'm learning more about teaching as I go along, but I've been teaching the AutoCAD part of this for quite awhile. I landed a job teaching at a vocational school in LV...again, documented experience and passing a cert test got me credentialed through the accrediting body for vocational schools. I did training and mentoring before I went into teaching, so I had an idea of learning. I will be developing my own curriculum for the fall because I'm not really impressed with the text books. I can do that because I know the skill set needed to succeed. 

However, once again, I do not even possess a 4 year degree in anything...just an AAS and years of experience in the field, training, mentoring, developing training courses...I don't get paid squat right now, but that will change come fall. 

[FluffySnowball]

The reason the cult essentially forces people into homeschooling their children is entirely wrong: it’s about control. Yet limiting what children can learn is always, by necessity, an act of disrespect. Assigning mothers the role of designates teacher without allowing for choice and taking individual circumstances into account is also disrespectful. 

So while I believe that in some instances, homeschooling can be a suitable avenue for kids to learn and thrive, the approach from Erin, Alyssa, and all the other families stuck in the cult is detrimental. When the core of the idea is the problem, nothing good can come out of it. 

[SassyPants]

4 hours ago, feministxtian said:

I do not have a formal teaching degree nor do I have credentials (as of right now). Yet, I teach. I have a niche skill and am not using that skill to go make 75k+ in the corporate world. Why? I'm done with the corporate world. My kids are learning a valuable skill and getting college credit for it. This job literally fell into my lap. A mentor at school (the evil CC) knew someone who knew that my school was looking for an Engineering/Drafting/Design/AutoCAD teacher. As it turns out, for certain niche skills, a teaching credential is not required, just so many years of documented experience and education in that field along with the standard background checks. I'm learning more about teaching as I go along, but I've been teaching the AutoCAD part of this for quite awhile. I landed a job teaching at a vocational school in LV...again, documented experience and passing a cert test got me credentialed through the accrediting body for vocational schools. I did training and mentoring before I went into teaching, so I had an idea of learning. I will be developing my own curriculum for the fall because I'm not really impressed with the text books. I can do that because I know the skill set needed to succeed. 

However, once again, I do not even possess a 4 year degree in anything...just an AAS and years of experience in the field, training, mentoring, developing training courses...I don't get paid squat right now, but that will change come fall. 

You do have relevant  experience(s) though and that counts. The Duggars have nothing but brainwashing and entitlement. The same goes for many other fundies.

[anjulibai]

The real issue is not as much early childhood education (though it is an issue), but middle school and high school. None of them have mastered enough subjects to teach at those levels, they just haven't. 

I'm a former high school math teacher, with a master's in secondary education, and I know I cannot teach my two elementary school aged kids. 

There are definitely bad teachers out there, but the majority are good and deeply care about what they do. And frankly, none of them make a ton of money. Not enough given how much they have to invest in their profession. I never made more than $50k, and that's with a master's degree and a high COL. That's more the norm. 

[feministxtian]

5 hours ago, anjulibai said:

There are definitely bad teachers out there, but the majority are good and deeply care about what they do. And frankly, none of them make a ton of money. Not enough given how much they have to invest in their profession. I never made more than $50k, and that's with a master's degree and a high COL. That's more the norm. 

If I were to take my part-time pay rate and divide it by the number of hours I spend outside the classroom, I think I'd be working for less than minimum wage. BUT...it's putting my skills to work in a way that matters beyond big corporation charging the gov't 100 bucks an hour for me and paying me maybe 35 of it. I also know that I have a job as long as I want it instead of being held hostage by downturns and "reduction in force" layoffs. I've worked those corporate jobs, busting my ass, making the good $$ then being told that I'm getting laid off. No thanks. STEM educators of whatever flavor are in high demand these days. I'll take it. 

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

If I were to take my part-time pay rate and divide it by the number of hours I spend outside the classroom, I think I'd be working for less than minimum wage. BUT...it's putting my skills to work in a way that matters beyond big corporation charging the gov't 100 bucks an hour for me and paying me maybe 35 of it. I also know that I have a job as long as I want it instead of being held hostage by downturns and "reduction in force" layoffs. I've worked those corporate jobs, busting my ass, making the good $$ then being told that I'm getting laid off. No thanks. STEM educators of whatever flavor are in high demand these days. I'll take it. 

I totally get it, job security in and of itself is a big plus. Still, it’s sad there’s not much money to be made in education, after all, it should be seen as an investment in the next generation. 

[feministxtian]

9 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

I totally get it, job security in and of itself is a big plus. Still, it’s sad there’s not much money to be made in education, after all, it should be seen as an investment in the next generation. 

If it were my only income, well...that'd be different. But, it isn't. I can make extra money tutoring, running a class or 2 for the school in Vegas, and the latest, a part-time gig at Trader Joe's. Decent cash, great atmosphere, discount on stuff I'd buy anyway. Hellz Yeah!

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 hours ago, anjulibai said:

The real issue is not as much early childhood education (though it is an issue), but middle school and high school. None of them have mastered enough subjects to teach at those levels, they just haven't. 

I'm a former high school math teacher, with a master's in secondary education, and I know I cannot teach my two elementary school aged kids. 

There are definitely bad teachers out there, but the majority are good and deeply care about what they do. And frankly, none of them make a ton of money. Not enough given how much they have to invest in their profession. I never made more than $50k, and that's with a master's degree and a high COL. That's more the norm. 

My line of thinking is this: younger kids don’t do well with online learning type of school. I witnessed this with my kindergartener during the worst of the pandemic. They just aren’t built to sit in front of a screen and learn. But jr high and high school kids can do online school a little better. There are online programs for older kids that fundies might use when it comes to geometry, chemistry, and all that. So if the homeschooling mother gets an education in elementary education, the kids might fair better if they have a decent elementary education to start them off. And then transition to online schooling later on. 

[HeartsAFundie]

These posts about teachers' qualifications got me thinking about my third grade teacher, who was one of my favorite teachers in elementary school.  Third grade is pretty important and extensive because so much is covered-multiplication, division, cursive writing (this was the 70s), and what nouns, verbs, adverbs and adjectives are.  Additionally, third grade is an introduction to definitive subject breakdowns (which becomes official in grade four).   In third grade I also remember learning songs from all over the country and world and acting in our own little plays.  My teacher created academic contests and games for us which made learning fun.  Additionally, she was kind and understanding.   Years later I learned she wasn't permanently certified, was teaching on a provisional certificate and got axed in a round of layoffs which I considered a pity for future incoming third graders.  But as far as I was concerned, the fact she was not permanently certified meant squat.  I learned more that year than any other.      

Edited April 15, 2022 by HeartsAFundie