Remnant Fellowship 20: Popping Popcorn, Waiting for the Bewigged Tiger King....

[Animosus]

13 hours ago, throwaway9988 said:

Just finished episode 1. Never met her in my life, but I think Im a Natasha Pavlovich stan now 😅

edit: omg they even included that cringey clip of Joe chasing Gwen around the house on his hands and knees 🤣 im dying

I might be a stan of Bob Beene.  He is the man from Oklahoma whose wife lost weight on Weigh Down and they all moved to Tennessee.  Quite a character.  But also very sad that his wife left him after Gwen left her husband.  I mean once Gwen got divorced, it gave other members of the church the permission to do the same.  

[throwaway9988]

11 minutes ago, RFSurvivor_2 said:

Thank you, I was able to look back (wayyyy back) into the older threads and indeed, WFG and Ted/Days connection is discussed there. 

From what I know, of course take it with a grain of salt as I have, Ted and Rob were doing shady, illegal shit involving WFG, which as a result got them both kicked out of leadership. Once again, take it with a grain of salt. I am still, till this day attempting to confirm the legitimacy of this rumor through some trustworthy contacts. This isn’t an accusation but more of a “I heard this” type deal.

Got it.  If the Angers/Days took their discipline and were appropriately repentant, it explains how they could be removed from leadership but ultimately choose to stay in Remnant as "happy" little members.  I understand that what you just posted is just secondhand/hearsay, but it does make more sense than some of the other possibilities I was imagining. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by throwaway9988

[DarkSideofHeaven]

I haven’t finished reading all the posts yet but wanted to share my two cents about Harry Potter. @RFSurvivor_2 I remember how be time I was in Tennessee and everyone was excited to go see the new Harry Potter movie. It was a midnight showing and Gwen was going as well. I remember telling her that I wasn’t comfortable going to see it with my daughter bc of the witchcraft and she said it was ok if I didn’t want to see it and she understood. For her to turn around and get upset with people bc of their excitement was hypocritical bc she too was excited about the movie. 

[RFSurvivor_2]

9 minutes ago, DarkSideofHeaven said:

I haven’t finished reading all the posts yet but wanted to share my two cents about Harry Potter. @RFSurvivor_2 I remember how be time I was in Tennessee and everyone was excited to go see the new Harry Potter movie. It was a midnight showing and Gwen was going as well. I remember telling her that I wasn’t comfortable going to see it with my daughter bc of the witchcraft and she said it was ok if I didn’t want to see it and she understood. For her to turn around and get upset with people bc of their excitement was hypocritical bc she too was excited about the movie. 

The duality of Gwen. She was known for speaking a different tune in private vs public.

[RFsurvivor]

4 hours ago, Destiny said:

Dammit, I TOLD YOU TO LIE TO ME! I mean,  you COULD learn some Latin from watching Harry Potter. You know learning Latin leads DIRECTLY to summoning demons from the depth of Hades, right? You clearly needed guidance on proper behaviour.

(I know JKR is problematic AF, but I LOVE Harry Potter. Yes, I have a hard time separating the two, and it does give me pause sometimes.)

ETA: I'd have been happy to invite you along in my Harry Potter events. They were huge in my circles, like 30+ people at the bookstore or theatre, and we were all ... grown ass adults was an understatement. LOL

That is a MAJOR TL;DR. TBH, the majority of RF things are though. Holy shirtballs y'all.

I secretly went anyways 🤷🏼‍♀️ Also went to midnight releases of the books too 

[Destiny]

Holy shitballs y’all. I’m not here for the trying to make me feel sorry for David shamblin. He profited every bit as much as Gwen from the church and its abuses.

[Animosus]

4 hours ago, Roscoe said:

I don't know if y'all have seen this, but here's the official RF response to the documentary. Wild stuff.

 

https://www.remnantfellowship.org/official-response-from-gwen-shamblin-church-to-hbo-documentary/

I went to the link and was checking out "The Truth about the Way Down Documentary" from RF.  The video titled "Freedom to Choose who you Marry" is more about addressing this forum since it wasn't mentioned at all in the documentary. 

[Destiny]

Helen Byrd, if you are reading this, you owe me an iPad keyboard for your, “get the fuck outta here with that.” Please PM me so we can arrange for me to collect. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Roscoe]

One thing I have found interesting about the documentary, especially episode 3, is all the discussion about how rampant depression was among Remnant Youth as others have mentioned.

As a child growing up in RF, I was severely depressed, often suicidal. That is something I have heard from so many other ex-RF youth. You paste on a smiley face but you're dying inside. Every part of you gets repressed. Every creative outlet is monitored and discouraged if it doesn't "promote the church." I wasn't allowed to participate in any extracurricular at school because my parents were advised that it would take me away from church. I personally was not allowed to have outside friends unless I was actively recruiting them. We were constantly under the intense pressure to be absolutely perfect and every failure was considered to be a "curse from God."

Gwen always talked about "immoral children." We were definitely not the type who believed kids were exempt from hell. I saw kids as young as 5 being called to testify about how they were so evil and sinful before they came to "this message" and now they were "fully under authority." Heck, I was that child, believing that every aspect of me that questioned or did not conform or did not achieve perfection was evil. And I was told by leaders that I was evil for those reasons.

I lived every day of my life terrified of Hell. I had a loved one with severe health issues who also had a weight problem and I witnessed a leader tell them that if they didn't get things right then they would be separated from my family and burn in hell. They told this to someone who was on the verge of death due to illness. They also later told me when I was older and struggling with depression that my loved one's failing health was my fault because I didn't "get it right with God." I was a teenager. They told a child that their loved one's sickness was their fault.

How could anyone say that to a kid and expect them not to develop extreme anxiety? How can anyone tell a child that God will only love them if they are thin and not expect that child to develop an eating disorder? Throughout my adolescence I was smiling big and broadly for photos and looking like the perfect RF teen serving on every committee and being the perfect obedient child, but at night I was cutting myself and praying that God would just let me die so I would stop being a burden on my family.

That is what RF does to children who grow up in it. That is what it's like being a child in that place. You are a perfect painted shell over a void of despair and I watched so many kids crack under the pressure.

 

[freefromthin]

2 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Helen Byrd, if you are reading this, you owe me an iPad keyboard for your, “get the fuck outta here with that.” Please PM me so we can arrange for me to collect. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I also loved her “miss me like the broad side of a bus” and, “Oh…so when the spirit hits YOU…” comments. She had me rolling.

[Destiny]

I also loved her “miss me like the broad side of a bus” and, “Oh…so when the spirit hits YOU…” comments. She had me rolling.

Yes. She is delightful. LOLOLOL I had to pause to laugh.

[throwaway9988]

4 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Helen Byrd, if you are reading this, you owe me an iPad keyboard for your, “get the fuck outta here with that.” Please PM me so we can arrange for me to collect. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[formergothardite]

Just finished episode 1. I like how it is sort of brought up that the beliefs and structure of evangelical churches made it possible for Gwen to thrive. Evangelical Christianity share some of the blame for the creation of the monster that became Gwen. She started in a Baptist church! I had not seen the clip before where she says that she doesn’t ask people to give up their addictions, she gets them addicted to god. That is such a red flag. 

You can sort of tell she knows she is lying during that deposition, especially with that last question where she looks to her lawyer first. The deposition where she is completely baffled about her Holocaust remarks being viewed as offensive shows how out of touch with reality she has been. 
 

My husband and teen daughter found the theology sections on the boring side. Both ended up playing on their phones during those parts. I get why they did a deep dive into the church of Christ and the trinity debate and all that but those parts were slow. Especially since the interesting bits are the poor parents trying to save their teen daughter from RF, people being told to not eat for 40 days and the custody battle for Joe’s daughter. I think the pacing would have been a bit better if they had spent less time on the theology. 

Now for the part I really didn’t like. I was bothered by them showing the clip of Joe’s daughter calling her mom and crying. Even blurring her face it felt icky watching that. That was a private moment when a child was upset it shouldn’t have been included. She can’t consent to her vulnerable moments being put up as entertainment for millions. It left a bad taste in my mouth. 
 

But all in all I think it is off to a good start. It looks like the more Tiger King level of crazy starts in the second episode. 

[Destiny]

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

My husband and teen daughter found the theology sections on the boring side. Both ended up playing on their phones during those parts. I get why they did a deep dive into the church of Christ and the trinity debate and all that but those parts were slow. Especially since the interesting bits are the poor parents trying to save their teen daughter from RF, people being told to not eat for 40 days and the custody battle for Joe’s daughter. I think the pacing would have been a bit better if they had spent less time on the theology. 

It’s funny how opinions vary. I found that part the most interesting so far - mostly because i find the heretical no trinity doctrine to be one of the most interesting things about them from a purely religious belief standpoint. I wished they had gone further into that to be honest. 

[MamaJunebug]

okay -- I visited a friend this afternoon who had such a tragic story to tell, I anticipated looking at The Way Down Part III as ... decompression.

The stories actually line up.  This friend lost both her children, their father and her home (literally) to narcotics.  The victims of RF & WDW have lost everything from their lives to marriages to their children.  Although I was so relieved to see that the one young woman is still alive and ostensibly happy.

I'm glad that Gwen went on with her foolishness about the Trinity.  It got the attention of the conservative Lutheran church which then advised strongly against her tripe.  Had she not publicized that, the idea of women's and children's submission to men would not have made a ripple.

So some good came from that.

As a depressive with pretty constant suicidal ideation and a food addiction, I feel so badly for M. Shamblin. He's been exposed as a pawn manipulated by both his female parent and a former lover.  

The scene with E. Shamblin rousing up the congregation was a surprise; I had not heard that she finally had made an enthusiastic [sic] presentation in front of the assembly.  I still feel badly for her and her children. First to lose an infant and not be able to grieve, now her husband and their father.

The world is blessed or lucky, depending on one's POV, that Gwen & Joe have left us.  I hope Tedd Ahn-ZHAY and his ilk are unable to restore the previous energy - or whatever it was - that bolstered RF/WDW.

And finally, mad, mad, mad props to Natasha.  What a person!

[formergothardite]

2 minutes ago, Destiny said:

It’s funny how opinions vary. I found that part the most interesting so far - mostly because i find the heretical no trinity doctrine to be one of the most interesting things about them from a purely religious belief standpoint. I wished they had gone further into that to be honest. 

I wonder if it is because my husband and daughter have both spent their live fairly non religious. The idea that people would stay for her teachings but walk out over the trinity was hard for them to comprehend. They are not slightly interested in petty fights over theology. They wanted to see more of Gwen saying insane stuff while looking like she is dressed for Halloween.

Gwen’s wedding entrance did make them laugh. It was so over the top. 

[DarkSideofHeaven]

22 minutes ago, Roscoe said:

One thing I have found interesting about the documentary, especially episode 3, is all the discussion about how rampant depression was among Remnant Youth as others have mentioned.

As a child growing up in RF, I was severely depressed, often suicidal. That is something I have heard from so many other ex-RF youth. You paste on a smiley face but you're dying inside. Every part of you gets repressed. Every creative outlet is monitored and discouraged if it doesn't "promote the church." I wasn't allowed to participate in any extracurricular at school because my parents were advised that it would take me away from church. I personally was not allowed to have outside friends unless I was actively recruiting them. We were constantly under the intense pressure to be absolutely perfect and every failure was considered to be a "curse from God."

Gwen always talked about "immoral children." We were definitely not the type who believed kids were exempt from hell. I saw kids as young as 5 being called to testify about how they were so evil and sinful before they came to "this message" and now they were "fully under authority." Heck, I was that child, believing that every aspect of me that questioned or did not conform or did not achieve perfection was evil. And I was told by leaders that I was evil for those reasons.

I lived every day of my life terrified of Hell. I had a loved one with severe health issues who also had a weight problem and I witnessed a leader tell them that if they didn't get things right then they would be separated from my family and burn in hell. They told this to someone who was on the verge of death due to illness. They also later told me when I was older and struggling with depression that my loved one's failing health was my fault because I didn't "get it right with God." I was a teenager. They told a child that their loved one's sickness was their fault.

How could anyone say that to a kid and expect them not to develop extreme anxiety? How can anyone tell a child that God will only love them if they are thin and not expect that child to develop an eating disorder? Throughout my adolescence I was smiling big and broadly for photos and looking like the perfect RF teen serving on every committee and being the perfect obedient child, but at night I was cutting myself and praying that God would just let me die so I would stop being a burden on my family.

That is what RF does to children who grow up in it. That is what it's like being a child in that place. You are a perfect painted shell over a void of despair and I watched so many kids crack under the pressure.

 

@Roscoe I’m so sorry you went through this. How awful. My heart goes out to you. I hope you have been able to start processing and healing from this. To be honest I don’t think there is ever complete “healing”, just an integration of what happened and making peace with the past. It’s been so many years and I still have dreams about Gwen and leadership every now and then. I just chuck it up to my brain still trying to process what happened. I will say that I always worried about the possibility of children being sexually assaulted. Hey n an organization that big and the emphasis on submitting to authority, it’s bound to happen.

[throwaway9988]

5 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

And finally, mad, mad, mad props to Natasha.  What a person!

Yes! I hope she sets up a GoFundMe to help with all of the ridiculous legal fees that Gwen foisted upon her (and Joe, with his admittedly false accusation of sexual abuse).  All of the publicity could really lead to a lot of donations.

Edited October 1, 2021 by throwaway9988

[JermajestyDuggar]

It must be so strange to fight your ex tooth and nail for custody of your daughter for years and then one day “poof” he’s dead and you never have to fight with him over custody ever again. It must be surreal. 

[nelliebelle1197]

7 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It must be so strange to fight your ex tooth and nail for custody of your daughter for years and then one day “poof” he’s dead and you never have to fight with him over custody ever again. It must be surreal. 

And maybe a bit of bittersweet relief. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

And maybe a bit of bittersweet relief. 

I bet it’s a huge range of emotions. The relief is then hit with guilt because your daughter lost her dad. And then sadness for your daughter. 

[formergothardite]

Just started episode 2 but will have to finish to tomorrow. Joe has always had crazy eyes. I didn't realize his background. Gwen was truly the perfect mark for him. A wealthy woman who was unhappy with her husband.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, formergothardite said:

Just started episode 2 but will have to finish to tomorrow. Joe has always had crazy eyes. I didn't realize his background. Gwen was truly the perfect mark for him. A wealthy woman who was unhappy with her husband.

But it’s funny because she used him just as much as he used her. They were perfect for each other! She wanted an attractive submissive man to stand by her side while she preached and he wanted her money and high life.

[formergothardite]

Just now, JermajestyDuggar said:

I bet it’s a huge range of emotions. The relief is then hit with guilt because your daughter lost her dad. And then sadness for your daughter. 

And Joe has been a part of her life for so long. Didn't she say she was 16 when they started dating. Even though he was awful, it still must be emotionally weird to lose someone who had been in her life since she was a teenager. 

[Destiny]

I need show to move on from the Smith case. I intentionally do not pay close attention to cases like these because it’s too close to my own childhood. What Sonya said was very reminiscent of my childhood and to this day, into my middle age, I can’t be in a room with a closed door. 

So far, the only thing that was new info for me was the fact that the Smiths might have killed two of their kids. I missed that fact, probably intentionally. 

46 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I wonder if it is because my husband and daughter have both spent their live fairly non religious. The idea that people would stay for her teachings but walk out over the trinity was hard for them to comprehend. They are not slightly interested in petty fights over theology. They wanted to see more of Gwen saying insane stuff while looking like she is dressed for Halloween.

Gwen’s wedding entrance did make them laugh. It was so over the top. 

I really want to hear her rationale for this belief, and the website is too damn convoluted for me to make sense out of it.