Dillards 90: Degrees, Exams, Vacations and Vaccinations, Oh MY!

[cacophony_grey]

Nine years ago when my youngest was born, I was absolutely certain he was a girl. Six years later, he let me know that he was really a boy. OOP! What an adventure the last three years has been as I unpack all the gender bullshit I didn't even know I was carrying. 

[irish_dancing_canadian]

I am the oldest of three girls. I really do not remember anyone hoping my mom would be having a boy when she was pregnant with my youngest sister. My mother did say she was happy to have a third daughter because she had so many hand me downs from me and my other sister so she didn't have to worry about getting a new set of clothes and what not (we were a single income family). My dad did say years later that it didn't bother him that he didn't have a son, what mattered is that we were all healthy. Plus we had male dogs as pets so he had fur sons anyways 😂

When my sisters and I do/if start having children, will be interesting to see what we have. I also know a family with 5 daughters and that will be interesting to see what they have. Family gender patterns are fascinating to me. 

[closetcagebaby]

8 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

True. And I still do. If you don't agree, so be it. 

I can only hope you don't express this opinion around any granddaughters.

[SassyPants]

20 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I had hoped for a boy, but I was so sure she was a girl I couldn't imagine anything else by the time I got the confirmation. No regrets here! 

And I tried to keep an open mind and not to read too much about labor and delivery. I ended up with a non emergency csection for failure to progress and was fine with it. I had a sore throat this past December which was worse than my recovery (it was pretty bad, though). I was fortunate.

Me too. My c-sections were absolutely fine. I’ve never had a vaginal delivery or recovery, but I can’t imagine those would be any easier than my c-sections and c-section recoveries. I was up and walking within 3 hours of surgery, had no issues with swelling, infection, wound or elimination problems. I know that some women do have issues, but so do some who have vag deliveries.  I understand the fact that one is surgery and one is not, but c-section deliveries are very, very safe in this day and age. I also understand the whole gut flora favorability for those delivered naturally. Again, my kids and GD, all c-section births, have had zero negative GI/allergen issues d/t being birthed surgically.

[Chickenbutt]

1 hour ago, closetcagebaby said:

I can only hope you don't express this opinion around any granddaughters.

LOL...I am not a monster. Of course not. 

[CarrotCake]

11 hours ago, viii said:

Exactly; I have zero issues with gender preference and gender disappointment. However, the reasoning plays a huge part in it. When my sister was pregnant with her twins, we were hoping for at least one boy. My dad grew up with two sisters, I have two sisters, my one sister already had a girl... our family was sorely lacking in boys and we thought it would be so fun to have something different. She had a girl and a boy. 

I have four niblings now - three girls and one boy. It appears boys are always destined to be outnumbered in my family! 

We had something similar. For ourselves we didn’t really mind but I know my parents, and especially my father, preferred a boy. My father has 4 sisters, 2 daughters and 2 granddaughters. The last direct male familymember (so except for nephews) he had was his own father.

We got a boy and my parents as well as my sister confessed afterwards that it was their preference and I get it. Although they immediately said: another girl would have been amazing too.

Edited March 4, 2022 by CarrotCake

[Mrs Ms]

Regarding carrying on the family name. My grandmother couldn’t marry my grandfather because his first wife wouldn’t grant him a divorce. So she just took on his surname. My mother has his surname. She didn’t marry my father. I have her surname. My partner and I aren’t married and our kids have both our surnames. Between my step-family and “in-laws” I know 3 males in the immediate families who have taken on their wives names. Having a penis really doesn’t determine name legacies in my world. 🙄

[viii]

12 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

We got a boy and my parents as well as my sister confessed afterwards that it was their preference and I get it. Although they immediately said: another girl would have been amazing too.

When my middle sister was pregnant with their second, they got SO many comments about how it should be a boy since they already had a girl and were only planning on two children. My BIL shut the people down every time because he actively wanted another girl and so did my sister. He saw how close me and my sisters are and wanted that for his only children. They thankfully got their second girl. 

11 hours ago, Mrs Ms said:

Having a penis really doesn’t determine name legacies in my world. 🙄

Nor should it 👏

[Meggo]

11 hours ago, Mrs Ms said:

Regarding carrying on the family name. My grandmother couldn’t marry my grandfather because his first wife wouldn’t grant him a divorce. So she just took on his surname. My mother has his surname. She didn’t marry my father. I have her surname. My partner and I aren’t married and our kids have both our surnames. Between my step-family and “in-laws” I know 3 males in the immediate families who have taken on their wives names. Having a penis really doesn’t determine name legacies in my world. 🙄

Names are tricky things - I'm pretty sure that my dad's family (the half with the last name anyway) shortened their name when they came to the US. And I've heard rumors on my mom side that someone back in her family tree wanted to marry someone's daughter. The dad had no sons and said "Okay - you can marry her if you take our last name so that it stays alive" basically - so he did. 
So - "family name" is a bit of a dodgy thing anyway - you only REALLY know the family story up to a point. 

I kept my last name when I got married - because I like it. My son has Daddy's last name - which is fine. 
There is only one son in my Dad's family tree side who could "carry on" the family name - and he's not married and not a dad. If he and his someday husband (because he is gay) have a baby someday - I wonder whose name THEY will give the baby...

It's a bit of a bummer that no one is having the next generation with the Family Name (because it's also an animal & it's really cool) but... is what it is. I tried to get my husband to include the name in our son's name - but he wanted him to have his last name and his middle name was the name his birth mom gave him, so we kept that for her, and we didn't like it as a first name. There wasn't any room for another name. 

[viii]

Kids can always change their minds when they're older as well. My mom has two brothers but both of her brothers only had daughters. My one uncle has two girls and the moment the youngest was eighteen, she changed her name to her mom's maiden name to keep the name alive. 

[Smash!]

I wish it was that easy to change the last name here!

[GreenBeans]

44 minutes ago, Smash! said:

I wish it was that easy to change the last name here!

Yep, same here! You can’t just change your last name (or first name, for that matter). But it is possible for women to keep and pass on their maiden name even when they get married and have children. It does happen more often nowadays that men take over their wife’s name or choose to have a hyphenated name. So a last name can absolutely live on in a girl child, too. 

[Smash!]

@GreenBeans I can‘t remember where you are, maybe Germany? I believe we have similar rules then!

Here still more women take their husband‘s name and it‘s very rare that men take on their wife‘s. Often the women just keeps her name. 

[GreenBeans]

7 minutes ago, Smash! said:

@GreenBeans I can‘t remember where you are, maybe Germany? I believe we have similar rules then!

Here still more women take their husband‘s name and it‘s very rare that men take on their wife‘s. Often the women just keeps her name. 

Yes, Germany.

And yes, it’s possible for both spouses to each keep their own name, but once you have a child you need to choose a “family name” - children cannot have hyphenated names, and cannot have different last names, either (so it’s not possible to compromise by giving sibling 1 the mom’s last name, and sibling 2 the dad’s last name).

Edited March 4, 2022 by GreenBeans
Riffles

[just_ordinary]

Just now, GreenBeans said:

Yes, Germany.

And yes, it’s possible for both spouses to each keep their own name, but once you have a child you need to choose a “family name” - children cannot have hyphenated names, and cannot have different last names, either (so it’s not possible to compromise by giving sibling 1 the mom’s last name, and sibling 2 the dad’s last name).

Wanted to add, that this rule about not hyphenated family names is rather “new”. We had some rare cases of LONG ass names. Just imagine someone with a hyphenated nahe, marrying someone with a hyphenated name and they deciding to hyphenate once again….. we might be known for our Lego-language but this was shut down a few decades ago. 
I don’t get the obsession with family names. You get what you get and if you marry you have a choice for another. It’s really not that big of a thing, is it? I mean it’s not personality shaping or anything (maybe in some very rare cases). Is it really important if you keep yours or give it up? Both should openly talk about it and either decide they like one best (as it flows best or whatever) or keep their own. I think the patriarchal side to this thinking is still an underlying and often enough even a conscious sentiment, but it definitely has already changed a lot. Same like giving a child the family name of the unmarried father. Most men want it, but more and more women push back and use their own name.

[Alisamer]

2 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I don’t get the obsession with family names. You get what you get and if you marry you have a choice for another. It’s really not that big of a thing, is it? I mean it’s not personality shaping or anything (maybe in some very rare cases). Is it really important if you keep yours or give it up? Both should openly talk about it and either decide they like one best (as it flows best or whatever) or keep their own.

I kind of agree but also changing names randomly does kind of make lineage harder to trace. Not a real issue NOW, but a hundred years or more ago, it could have been.

Interestingly, I have one German branch of my family. They kept the same name... but it is spelled differently in literally every generation and sometimes within generations! 

I had a professor in high school who skirted this whole issue when she and her husband got married. They made up their OWN new last name and both of them took that. 

[Smash!]

Yes for me it‘s a big question. My boyfriend and I will get married in the future. I‘m in my thirties and have been living with my name for quite some time. It‘s a big part of my identity. At the same time I would love for us to have the same name. But boyfriend would never take my name. Why? Because it‘s weird to him to suddenly have a new name. But it‘s still expected of women to do exactly this because „it‘s no big deal“. If it isn‘t why don‘t do it men more often? I have not one male among my friends who did that. Some of my girlfriends kept their own name but the majority took on their new husband‘s. They wanted the same family name but for their future husbands it was totally out of question to change their name. The reality looks still different than it is in paper and this bothers me.

Add to that a personal issue of mine with the family of my dad/my dad. So I might wanna change my name when I get married but take on my mom‘s maiden name. Not sure if this would get approved because you need strong reasons and I don’t know if my reasons will be strong enough.

 

[just_ordinary]

40 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I kind of agree but also changing names randomly does kind of make lineage harder to trace. Not a real issue NOW, but a hundred years or more ago, it could have been.

Interestingly, I have one German branch of my family. They kept the same name... but it is spelled differently in literally every generation and sometimes within generations! 

I had a professor in high school who skirted this whole issue when she and her husband got married. They made up their OWN new last name and both of them took that. 

That’s actually a thing that makes me extremely vary about those home made or internet/lay genealogy stuff. Checking old records is one thing, but people forget that spelling of names and sometimes even the names changed more often than many realise. Also- children out of wedlock or living with relatives and turning into their children per those documents happened more often than many imagine. Also- reading old church books is almost an art of its own. You definitely need to research the village/town history and get an idea of the priest and how they led their parish to get a good idea of what you are reading. Add knowledge about the dialects and writing at the time. It’s easy to get back to 1900 or maybe 1800. But after that you need a professional because you will most definitely take some wrong turns. And they are EXPENSIVE if you go for a real professional. Those internet archives are nice but they are no substitute for the real work on the ground because they can be extremely faulty. Exceptions are OLD families that have always kept records but that’s almost only true for old nobility. I always have to chuckle if people claim to trace their lineage back to the Middle Ages without any professional help. And even then, a professional would admit some or even bigbluriness. 

[Alisamer]

1 minute ago, just_ordinary said:

That’s actually a thing that makes me extremely vary about those home made or internet/lay genealogy stuff. Checking old records is one thing, but people forget that spelling of names and sometimes even the names changed more often than many realise. Also- children out of wedlock or living with relatives and turning into their children per those documents happened more often than many imagine. Also- reading old church books is almost an art of its own. You definitely need to research the village/town history and get an idea of the priest and how they led their parish to get a good idea of what you are reading. Add knowledge about the dialects and writing at the time. It’s easy to get back to 1900 or maybe 1800. But after that you need a professional because you will most definitely take some wrong turns. And they are EXPENSIVE if you go for a real professional. Those internet archives are nice but they are no substitute for the real work on the ground because they can be extremely faulty. Exceptions are OLD families that have always kept records but that’s almost only true for old nobility. I always have to chuckle if people claim to trace their lineage back to the Middle Ages without any professional help. And even then, a professional would admit some or even bigbluriness. 

Yeah mine was not too difficult but then I know someone paid a professional to do a full geneology on one side years ago so that info is part of the online resources now. And luckily the guy who came to the US on that side was a minor noble who was transported, so more easily traceable. There's another side I came to a dead end at my grandpa's grandpa, for exactly those reasons. He wasn't living with his parents in any of the census records, and I can't find any real record of who they were. 

[CreationMuseumCurator]

I took my ex-husband's name when we married. My last name is German, and most people mispronounce it one or two times before guessing correctly. His last name was a word you'd find in the dictionary (with a generally negative connotation, but hey, rose colored glasses). I was thrilled to have a "normal" last name. Spoiler alert: nobody knew how to spell that one, either. When we divorced, I could not change my name back fast enough.

 

[GreenBeans]

5 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I had a professor in high school who skirted this whole issue when she and her husband got married. They made up their OWN new last name and both of them took that. 

You can’t do that here. There’s only 3 options when you get married:

1) Both husband and wife keep their respective names (they can still change to options 2 or 3 at any time later on).

2) Women takes on the man’s last name, or vice versa.

3) Man keeps last name, woman hyphenates (you can choose which name should go firs), or vice versa.

Choosing an entirely different name, nope, not permitted. Both wanting to hyphenate, nope, not permitted. Going back to your maiden name again later on, nope, not permitted (except in case of divorce).

The laws are very restrictive here, it’s almost impossible to change your name (first or last) outside of getting married. You need very grave reasons, and even then need to jump through lots of bureaucratic hoops. Permitted reasons  could be having a last name that might  be considered insulting (e.g. if your last name was the local language equivalent of “Moron”), or the name of a dictator/mass murderer) or an unbearable psychological burden (e.g. last name of father who murdered a close family member), or a name change as part of a witness protection program.

All of these are very limited exceptions granted in very rare circumstances. Just “I don’t like my name” or “dad left when I was little, so I’d rather take on my mom’s maiden name” wouldn’t qualify.

[Satan'sFortress]

9 hours ago, Meggo said:

I kept my last name when I got married - because I like it. My son has Daddy's last name - which is fine. 
There is only one son in my Dad's family tree side who could "carry on" the family name - and he's not married and not a dad. If he and his someday husband (because he is gay) have a baby someday - I wonder whose name THEY will give the baby...

I have the exact same scenario! I kept my name but my kids have hubs' name. It is just a better name, easier to spell and pronounce.  Plus, I love my father, but his last name (and mine) come from HIS father, who was an abusive ass.  So, in my case, I am happy to let the family name go. The only one who could "carry on" the name is gay and childless. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Satan'sFortress

[Giraffe]

6 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

Yes, Germany.

And yes, it’s possible for both spouses to each keep their own name, but once you have a child you need to choose a “family name” - children cannot have hyphenated names, and cannot have different last names, either (so it’s not possible to compromise by giving sibling 1 the mom’s last name, and sibling 2 the dad’s last name).

Perhaps this is a stupid question but how does that work with kids from multiple partners? Is there an exception for multiple family names in that case?

[CarrotCake]

15 hours ago, Smash! said:

Yes for me it‘s a big question. My boyfriend and I will get married in the future. I‘m in my thirties and have been living with my name for quite some time. It‘s a big part of my identity. At the same time I would love for us to have the same name. But boyfriend would never take my name. Why? Because it‘s weird to him to suddenly have a new name. But it‘s still expected of women to do exactly this because „it‘s no big deal“. If it isn‘t why don‘t do it men more often? I have not one male among my friends who did that. Some of my girlfriends kept their own name but the majority took on their new husband‘s. They wanted the same family name but for their future husbands it was totally out of question to change their name. The reality looks still different than it is in paper and this bothers me.

Add to that a personal issue of mine with the family of my dad/my dad. So I might wanna change my name when I get married but take on my mom‘s maiden name. Not sure if this would get approved because you need strong reasons and I don’t know if my reasons will be strong enough.

 

I think you might be in the same country as me (Netherlands) and remember that your name never changes here.

Your ‘maiden name’ will always be your official name. The only thing you choose when you get married is how the government addresses you.

I get addressed as ‘his name-my name’, things that have to do with our son and family I use ‘his name’ and with work and sports that involve me only I use ‘my name’.

So I don’t feel like I changed my name, just got the privilege to also use his name when it is more convenient.

9 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Perhaps this is a stupid question but how does that work with kids from multiple partners? Is there an exception for multiple family names in that case?

Here in NL this rule only applies for children with both parents in common.

Our son has my husbands name but if we would divorce and I would get a kid with another man I can choose again if they get my name or that new man’s name.

[GreenBeans]

11 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Perhaps this is a stupid question but how does that work with kids from multiple partners? Is there an exception for multiple family names in that case?

The general rule is:

- If the parents are married at the time of birth, all children born will have the (uniform) family name (chosen by the parents at the time of marriage, or if both kept their last names at marriage, they have to choose the family name upon the birth of the first child).

- If the parents are not married at the time of birth, they can choose whether the child should have the mom’s or dad’s last name. The default is the mom’s last name. But technically, children from multiple relationships could have different last names (different from their mom and different from each other), I think.

- If parents (married or not) separate/divorce, that does not change anything about the last names of children originating from that marriage/relationship. It does not matter which parent is the primary caretaker, whether the a parent pays child support, or with whom the child lives. The same applies if either parent enters into a new relationship, no name change (not automatically, and not possible either).

- If a parent divorces and gets married again (and takes over the new spouse’s last name), the child from the previous marriage/relationship will still keep its original last name. I think the only exception from that rule is if the new spouse legally adopts the other spouse’s child from a previous marriage. Then the child can take over the new spouse’s name. BUT such adoption is only possible if the original parent consents (because it will lose all its parental rights with the adoption) AND, at least for older children (I think starting from 12/14), if the child consents, too.

So yes, that can result in children having last names different from those of their (step) parents or (half/step) siblings.

2 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

I think you might be in the same country as me (Netherlands) and remember that your name never changes here.

Your ‘maiden name’ will always be your official name. The only thing you choose when you get married is how the government addresses you.

That’s interesting, it’s definitely different here (Germany). It’s not just a formality here, but a legal name change, so you actually use your maiden name if you get married and choose to take over your husband’s name.

Edited March 5, 2022 by GreenBeans