[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 31: Charged on 2 LaCounts

[Emma]

 Miranda! As in Miranda rights?

 

eta. Cross post. Threads moving too fast. Miranda made me lol  

Edited May 11, 2021 by Emma

[Candycane36]

Anna could leave Josh, but the truth is that she doesn't want to do that. She is fully committed to staying with him, having more kids, and living her comfortable life as a sahm.  She is standing by him,  no matter what he does or did in the past. We all think Anna wants to leave him, but she has no intention of doing so. Unfortunately,There are many women like Anna out there, we just don't hear about them .  The cycle of abuse is very hard to break, because the honeymoon period is very rewarding and intoxicating for the victims. We have seen Josh humiliatie Anna on screen, when he made a comment about Anna swallowing a pill, he also made comments about his sister's incest was something they do in Arkansas. Josh has visited strip clubs, paid for sex workers , cheated, lied, hid money from Anna, indulged in inappropriate online sites, and now facing jail time. it this was not enough to convince Anna to leave, than nothing ever will. Anna does has choices, and she is choosing to stay with Josh.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Candycane36

[SassyPants]

23 minutes ago, sansan said:

I thought JB was supposed to be such a financial wizard, how stupid was he to not invest in appliances to help with the growing herd. Did she laundromat everything or clean them in a river on a rock? Every time I have to go to a laundromat to wash an oversized comforter it ticks me off at the cost but it beats tearing up my washer at home, I want it to last a reasonable time.

She had a laundry fairy, a friend who did the Duggars’ laundry.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

16 minutes ago, Candycane36 said:

We all think Anna wants to leave him, but she has no intention of doing so.

There is not one person here who has said that, unless I've missed an odd post.  

[libgirl2]

20 minutes ago, Candycane36 said:

Anna could leave Josh, but the truth is that she doesn't want to do that. She is fully committed to staying with him, having more kids, and living her comfortable life as a sahm.  She is standing by him,  no matter what he does or did in the past. We all think Anna wants to leave him, but she has no intention of doing so. Unfortunately,There are many women like Anna out there, we just don't hear about them .  The cycle of abuse is very hard to break, because the honeymoon period is very rewarding and intoxicating for the victims. We have seen Josh humiliatie Anna on screen, when he made a comment about Anna swallowing a pill, he also made comments about his sister's incest was something they do in Arkansas. Josh has visited strip clubs, paid for sex workers , cheated, lied, hid money from Anna, indulged in inappropriate online sites, and now facing jail time. it this was not enough to convince Anna to leave, than nothing ever will. Anna does has choices, and she is choosing to stay with Josh.

If he goes to jail, if the Duggar brand dies.... the money dries up..... lets say he gets out, she isn't going to exactly have the life of luxury if there is no more money. 

I still see a separation for life but no actual divorce. 

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I think you have a skewed perspective of how easy it is to have certain state benefits. It doesn't "guarantee" that anyone is checking in on anything more often. That statement comes off as a little bit classist.

Yes, I am the ultimate classist!

I am also a social worker who works with people who receive many different government services.

30 minutes ago, Candycane36 said:

She is fully committed to staying with him, having more kids, and living her comfortable life as a sahm. 

You think Anna's life is comfortable? You think it's comfortable and will be so in the future? Anna is not a rich, lazy housewife who lives in the wealthy suburbs. She lives in a windowless warehouse, pregnant with her 7th, has a husband with pending federal charges, and no reliable income. 

There's nothing remotely "comfortable" about her life.

Even before Josh's arrest, her life didn't seem comfortable at all. Six young kids and no help. A husband who couldn't be trusted. Emails from Covenant Eyes she had to scan anxiously every day. The shame of being the family that caused their TLC show to end. That's very different than being a SAHM with a supportive husband and family, steady income, and nice home.

[ADoyle90815]

54 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I think the Miranda was mocking his arrest. "Miranda rights" are what's read to the person when they're arrested. 

That's what I thought of with the name Miranda, a reference to "Miranda rights."

[Marshmallow World]

57 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Please no on Miranda or Madeline. 
My niece’s name is Miranda and my grandmother was Madeline. Oh and another niece’s middle name is Madeline as well. 

I hear you there. A fundie I absolutely DESPISE had the audacity to use my daughter's name for one of his daughters. I was livid. It still makes me seethe silently when I see it (out of respect for Little Marshmallow, I won't share the name here, but it's an offspring of a horrid fundie, and the name is not terribly common). 

[breakfree]

22 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

 

You think Anna's life is comfortable? You think it's comfortable and will be so in the future? Anna is not a rich, lazy housewife who lives in the wealthy suburbs. She lives in a windowless warehouse, pregnant with her 7th, has a husband with pending federal charges, and no reliable income. 

There's nothing remotely "comfortable" about her life.

Even before Josh's arrest, her life didn't seem comfortable at all. Six young kids and no help. A husband who couldn't be trusted. Emails from Covenant Eyes she had to scan anxiously every day. The shame of being the family that caused their TLC show to end. That's very different than being a SAHM with a supportive husband and family, steady income, and nice home.

I don't believe for a minute she has had no help with her kids. Absolutely the unmarried Duggar girls have been helping to some degree and are helping her now and no doubt the certainty of losing that help if she leaves is part of what keeps her in the marriage. Mac is also at sister mom age and doubtless giving more than she's taking by now.

I also think some people forget the horrible poverty Anna grew up in. To say her kids standard of living has been higher than hers, windowless warehouse or not, is an understatement of epic proportions. Comfort is relative.

Edited May 11, 2021 by breakfree
Typos

[sansan]

Reading all the stuff about Anna’s parents and how they basically are at poverty’s door I have to wonder if all the married adult children contribute to the household fund to keep them afloat.  

[neuroticcat]

1 hour ago, sansan said:

I thought JB was supposed to be such a financial wizard, how stupid was he to not invest in appliances to help with the growing herd. Did she laundromat everything or clean them in a river on a rock? Every time I have to go to a laundromat to wash an oversized comforter it ticks me off at the cost but it beats tearing up my washer at home, I want it to last a reasonable time.

Right? If I remember correctly it was the in their first book talking about when they had however many crammed with Michelle in the back bedroom while the living room was the car lot office or something. Their washer kept breaking down, and Jim Bob had sold a car and made some unexpected money. Michelle was so excited about the thought of a new washing machine, but Jim Bob thought it was a better investment to buy some kind of machinery. 
 

I believe it was framed with a reflection on his wise providering and her implied submission and how those were the kind of choices they made. It’s stuck with me because it felt like a relatively benign example of how messed up everything was that they would describe that sequence as a good situation for their family. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

22 minutes ago, sansan said:

Reading all the stuff about Anna’s parents and how they basically are at poverty’s door I have to wonder if all the married adult children contribute to the household fund to keep them afloat.  

They were poor when they were raising the kids, but the one kidult they still have at home works so if they did need ongoing help from adult kids then Ma and Pa Keller should get some actual jobs.  

And I cannot imagine John Shrader kicking in to support them and Josh has never had independent income and I doubt JB/M are subsidizing the Kellers too.  I know were I an adult child of Mike and Suzette helping them with expenses my money would stop the first time they treated the entire Rod family to an outing.  If you aren't self supporting you have no business squandering money given to you for your support.

49 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

You think Anna's life is comfortable? You think it's comfortable and will be so in the future? Anna is not a rich, lazy housewife who lives in the wealthy suburbs. She lives in a windowless warehouse, pregnant with her 7th, has a husband with pending federal charges, and no reliable income. 

There's nothing remotely "comfortable" about her life.

Even before Josh's arrest, her life didn't seem comfortable at all. Six young kids and no help. A husband who couldn't be trusted. Emails from Covenant Eyes she had to scan anxiously every day. The shame of being the family that caused their TLC show to end. That's very different than being a SAHM with a supportive husband and family, steady income, and nice home.

The women who are right now trying to do the best for their kids who are homeless or desperately in fear of it, can't provide the basic necessities for their kids including food and clothing would like a word about how there is nothing comfortable about not having to worry about those things.  

ETA comment on the bolded.  What shame?  She has whined about them not being featured anymore and has plastered the internet with her "little duggars" posts to try to make that a thing.  Ditto her posts on her happy marriage and wonderful husband, etc.  Just because a typical person would be ashamed of what Josh had done previously doesn't mean she was.  

Edited May 11, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[Mama Mia]

3 hours ago, RainbowSky said:

What does having SNAP have to do with seeing neglect or abuse? 

SNAP wouldn’t, but many other services might - WIC and TANF generally require some in-person contact, Head Start, Homeless Shelters, Crowded Apartment complexes, Clinics— all mean more preying eyes than a nanny, big house with solid walls in the suburbs or a private physician. It’s mostly status that protects/targets certain people over others in the same situations, but just plain visibility is also a factor. 

[Alisamer]

21 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

They were poor when they were raising the kids, but the one kidult they still have at home works so if they did need ongoing help from adult kids then Ma and Pa Keller should get some actual jobs.  

And I cannot imagine John Shrader kicking in to support them and Josh has never had independent income and I doubt JB/M are subsidizing the Kellers too.  I know were I an adult child of Mike and Suzette helping them with expenses my money would stop the first time they treated the entire Rod family to an outing.  If you aren't self supporting you have no business squandering money given to you for your support.

This. I highly doubt Nathan and Nurie are kicking in any support money either, between preparing their travel trailer for a new addition and having to deal with Mama Jill Rodrigue$ and her entourage on a regular basis. 

If I were them I'd tell the Kellers AND the Rods that they were leaving and cleaving and that included financials.

Also if I was, god forbid, the Duggar parents, I'd have kicked Josh out and told HIM to "leave and cleave!" years ago.

Supportive families are one thing, dependent clinginess is another.

[AreYouThereGothard?]

M7 name offering: Miracle Duggar (or, in Duggar speak, Myracle, Mirakelle, etc.). For Anna, “miracle” that the baby that will cure everything and be a sign of God’s everlasting grace. For me (and perhaps others) “miracle”, as in something the M kids desperately need to get away from their pederass father 

My sympathy for Anna is limited. I want the M kids far, far away from this nonsense 

Edited May 11, 2021 by AreYouThereGothard?
Mindful of Duggarized spellings

[libgirl2]

9 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

This. I highly doubt Nathan and Nurie are kicking in any support money either, between preparing their travel trailer for a new addition and having to deal with Mama Jill Rodrigue$ and her entourage on a regular basis. 

If I were them I'd tell the Kellers AND the Rods that they were leaving and cleaving and that included financials.

Also if I was, god forbid, the Duggar parents, I'd have kicked Josh out and told HIM to "leave and cleave!" years ago.

Supportive families are one thing, dependent clinginess is another.

When my first husband left me (and my son), I was unable to afford the house we had. He had taken a second mortgage out on it and it was too much for me to pay. I talked to my parents about looking at an apartment. I also went to a new townhouse development by the same builder as my house. I saw a model that would be perfect for the two of us. I went to my dad and told him my options and he said he wanted his grandson to have a yard. He gave me $25,000 as a down payment. I am forever grateful. I paid my  mortgage myself, paid utilities, groceries..... everything but that money he gave me and the small amount from my divorce really helped. I was paying $875 for a two bedroom, 1.5 bath, one car garage unit. When we sold it, I offered to pay him back but he refused. He said to use the money on our new home (I had remarried). 

[SassyPants]

JB can’t use leave and cleave because his adult kids wouldn’t even know what that entails. If they can barely support themselves, would they be willing to follow Gothard’s mandate on BC and family size? How would that affect JB’s reputation and standing in the cult? Also, these people have been use to the easy luxuries in life: homes, cars, trips, use of planes, fancy coffee drinks, clothing, IPhones...I don’t think many of the kids adults would happily go back to used shoes, kids stacked like cordwood or meals consisting of only rice.

[CyborgKin]

Looking up Duggar news on Twitter, I've learned far more than I ever wanted about the SF Giants.

[SassyPants]

2 minutes ago, CyborgKin said:

Looking up Duggar news on Twitter, I've learned far more than I ever wanted about the SF Giants.

As a fan I almost peed my pants when we acquired him. Of course a skilled, employed person named Duggar would be no relation to boob.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

Apologies if it's been posted already and I missed it up thread, but did you all see that Ellie (Ellie & Lily leg-humper blog) disabled comments on the Josh posts, and put her own blog to private?

She said "to protect the kids"- I bet you she got a lot of backlash for posting "pray for Josh" statements and no word about the victims. I know the bar is set real low with these people, but I want to hope that even for most leg-humpers, CSA charges have crossed the line. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

24 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

When my first husband left me (and my son), I was unable to afford the house we had. He had taken a second mortgage out on it and it was too much for me to pay. I talked to my parents about looking at an apartment. I also went to a new townhouse development by the same builder as my house. I saw a model that would be perfect for the two of us. I went to my dad and told him my options and he said he wanted his grandson to have a yard. He gave me $25,000 as a down payment. I am forever grateful. I paid my  mortgage myself, paid utilities, groceries..... everything but that money he gave me and the small amount from my divorce really helped. I was paying $875 for a two bedroom, 1.5 bath, one car garage unit. When we sold it, I offered to pay him back but he refused. He said to use the money on our new home (I had remarried). 

There is nothing wrong with accepting help from family when you need it.  There is everything wrong with parents like JB/M who actively sabotage their kids potential for financial independence and then use it as a cudgel to control their lives.  And it's wrong for the adult kids to keep having kids they have no way to support without their parents.  

But life happens and sometimes leaves us in a bad place and there is nothing wrong with wanting to help and accepting the help.  Independence doesn't mean you never need anyone for anything and no one should have any shame in help willingly given and received.   

I am grateful I had help from my family in leaving an abusive marriage and also that my ex's parents were such that they paid his CS when he didn't.  As hard as it was I was so lucky that a bit of help kept my life (and more importantly the lives of my kids) from spinning into a much darker place.  As bad as things were no one should ever underestimate how much easier life is when you know you can properly feed, clothe, shelter, educate, and provide medical care for your kids.  Not easy by any stretch, but a hell of a lot easier than dealing with the pain and chaos while lacking basic necessities.  

 

[amaznmom2u]

I was skimming through the r/DuggarSnark thread and came across a verified AMA from a guy who grew up with Joshie...Interesting and illuminating read. Now this guy has started a "podcast" on YouTube going through his journal from his time at ATI. I found it very insightful as he and his wife (both former fundies) discuss the mindset and thought processes he was going through. He also describes the golden boy and how he was set up for failure and really digs into Anna. Link to his channel in spoiler. 

Spoiler

https://youtube.com/channel/UC8WxY0ZaULwItr3YXqxTAWQ

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, amaznmom2u said:

I was skimming through the r/DuggarSnark thread and came across a verified AMA from a guy who grew up with Joshie...Interesting and illuminating read. Now this guy has started a "podcast" on YouTube going through his journal from his time at ATI. I found it very insightful as he and his wife (both former fundies) discuss the mindset and thought processes he was going through. He also describes the golden boy and how he was set up for failure and really digs into Anna. Link to his channel in spoiler. 

  Hide contents

https://youtube.com/channel/UC8WxY0ZaULwItr3YXqxTAWQ

 

Just a generic warning about being verified on Reddit....it just means the mods believe his story.  I'm not saying they shouldn't and I have no idea what process they use to vet, there are certainly any number of people who grew up in this cult who could speak to things with an insider's perspective.    But there are also a lot of people who lie on the internet and many people who have followed these families for a while could make a pretty convincing case if they wanted to impersonate someone.  

I have no opinion on the veracity of this guy, just saying skepticism in your friend even if they are vetted by a website.

[HoneyBunny]

I know we’ve kind of gotten away from the discussion about Catholicism and its traditions and rituals, but I was still too torn up to discuss this in the last thread, so I will put this out here now. I guess I just need to tell someone and the FJ community feels safe.

I was born and raised in a strict Catholic family, with 12 years of Catholic education, a Catholic Mass wedding in the diocesan cathedral, lots of Masses on family celebration days (40, 50, 60-year anniversaries)…the whole thing. I started drifting and doubting a bit in the late 90s (our diocese would not allow female servers for several years), but the political preaching from the pulpit, which started when George W. Bush was president, really turned me off. I started skipping more than I went, but admittedly missed the ritual and tradition. 

The pandemic provided me the perfect opportunity to “shop around” for Mass online, and priests that gave homilies that inspired me. If any of them got political, I moved on. I hadn’t been to in person church in over a year, until Saturday night. I was house sitting (and dog sitting and providing an adult presence to a 17 year old) and he asked if I would go to Mass with him at 7pm, since his family usually went on Sundays at 10am and they would be flying home them. I was pretty impressed that he wanted to do this, but not surprised, as he and his brother are two of the best kids I know. So we went to Mass at his church (also the parish my house is physically located in, but I’ve never felt good about its priests and am not a member).

It couldn’t have been worse. The priest’s homily, on Mother’s Day weekend, was not about Christ’s love, and a mother’s love. Was not about the importance of mothers in our spiritual lives.  In fact, he didn’t mention mothers at all. Instead he harped on the party of the culture of death, mentioning Biden by name only once, and thereafter referring to him by blowing a disgusting raspberry sound. Then he went on to say that if we had voted for any candidates in the party that espouses the culture of death, we could not receive communion. And if we didn’t like that, there were three churches of other religions within a quarter of a mile.  In fact, we could probably even find a church that would allow us to marry a dog (yes, he used those words). But we were not Catholic. 

I was frozen in my seat. I wanted to leave so badly, but didn’t because of my young friend. And to further complicate things, I know that his parents, who are good friends despite their (and my) conflicting beliefs, would firmly support what the priest was saying. I skipped Communion (my first chance to receive it in forever).  I didn’t sleep at all Saturday night and Sunday morning fired off an impassioned email to that priest, telling him he had missed such an opportunity.  And that his words would be the catalyst that caused me to give up my Catholic faith. My 90 year old mother (a Democrat voting Catholic who opposes abortion but understands that Jesus really would have been a Democrat) would be appalled if she knew about this or that I emailed the priest or that I was leaving the faith, but then she is fully able to ignore the growing list of things she opposes in the Church (what predator priests?  Picture her plugging her ears and going nanananana). I can’t do that any longer.  What the bishops in this country are doing is wrong. 
 

My heart is a little less heavy today. I haven’t heard from the priest (kind of  doubt that I will) but it would have been nice to be acknowledged. I guess that just strengthens my conviction that I’m doing the right thing. 

[amaznmom2u]

4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

I have no opinion on the veracity of this guy, just saying skepticism in your friend even if they are vetted by a website.

Oh I agree, sometimes the vetting isn't as complete as we here would like it, but this person was on the show a couple of times (he said we can figure out who he is by watching the early episodes.   He goes into for how long Josh had to dig up sludge pond and how all the men welcomed Josh back after the shunning, yet nothing for his victims. I guess you'd have to listen to judge the veracity, but this doesn't sound like anything was lifted off FJ or Reddit.