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[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 30: LaCounting On to His Trial Date


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Satan'sFortress
9 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Seriously, how much would I pay to see a video of JB and M finding out for the first time?  So much.

I would too. Those few moments in between hearing the news and deciding it was Satan's fault. I would definitely pay to see that.

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justoneoftwo
1 hour ago, HereComesTreble said:

Was “deceiver” an autocorrect error?  I bet it was supposed to be “Seder.” If not, what is that, please?  I ask because my mom’s family is Jewish—I’ve never heard of a deceiver.

 

Yes, sorry, doing this on my phone with voice command sorry

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AussieKrissy
12 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I just saw this posted on the main Duggar thread (thanks @WiseGirl ) and hadn't heard this before.  The case of Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy suing which they filed in 2017.

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/30/duggar-daughters-case-on-fall-track/

 

Timing isn't good for Josh.  It's going to remind those paying attention of the trauma of his sisters the publicizing of which is causing them to sue for life time therapy plans.  

Yeah Jill might use the money for therapy. I wonder if the others will be made to give it to JB 

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HerNameIsBuffy
3 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Yeah Jill might use the money for therapy. I wonder if the others will be made to give it to JB 

I think you follow them more than I do,  from what you can see of their public personas do you think Jeremy would be okay with giving it to JB?

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EmCatlyn
8 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I was not aware of that. We are talking about 40 years ago however. I'm sure things have changed. I do remember we didn't all gather around a table. We had an assembly of the whole school when they went over the meal and the meanings and a few students were chosen to go up and partake of the food. 

This does not sound to me like a Passover Seder but an educational exercise about Passover.  Education is not the same as appropriation.

I generally feel that trying to understand and support the traditions of others is a good thing.  It is only when you delude yourself that you “really” understand that there is a problem.  A Seder in a Christian school is like a Mass in a Jewish school.  You can enact it to understand, but you shouldn’t think it has the same weight or value.

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AussieKrissy
10 hours ago, Jess said:

I don’t actually want to do anything that defends Josh Duggar. However, I can not condone in general solitary confinement of the nature you described as being part of our system for anyone who does not present a very large danger to other inmates and prison staff leaving them with absolutely no other choice for the safety of others. I encourage you to read up on its effects and just how terrible it is it really is akin to torture. I don’t want to live in a society that condones regular torture of its prison population. 

As to him being shanked I doubt it, unless something new comes go light he will almost certainly end up housed in a medium security prison with a large percentage of other sex offenders. Getting shanked is more of a maximum security prison issue. In medium security people generally don’t have a history of violence and are not going to shank someone and risk their own release. 

I have worked in a prison for 20 years. Inmates and officers get stabbed in every classification Gaol. Minimum security gaols can be some of the most dangerous (at times) because well they are designed to be minimum security so when shit hits the fan the infrastructure does not handle it. The last officer to be murdered was in a minimum security Gaol.
But you are right in my assessment of fucktard I don’t think he will be an issue in terms of threat. The pedophiles generally aren’t. 
also there are murderers and rapists and all the nasties in all classifications of Gaol. 

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purple_summer
32 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I get that, but there is nothing one of my kids could do that would cause me to banish them for all eternity.  Isn't that the same as withholding salvation for minor sins?

And this is why more people (at least to me) are moving more towards universal salvation or at the very least “hell isn’t eternal torment” theology wise. I’ve heard people say “hell” is just separation from God which could just be here on earth (wedonthavetimetounpackallthat.gif), that it’s basically purgatory and temporary, or that it’s like Mormon “2nd place heaven”. Hell and the lake of fire are supposed to be two different places. 
Contrary to what people display openly, I don’t think most people really think through the idea of eternal hell. I remember being told it’s worse than anything I could ever imagine. That’s probably why so many people toe the forgiveness line-they/their loved one couldn’t possibly be so bad to end up in hell. 

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feministxtian
2 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

And this is why more people (at least to me) are moving more towards universal salvation or at the very least “hell isn’t eternal torment” theology wise.

My standard reply to people who presume to judge the eternal fate of someone is to ask them if they feel they have the wisdom to speak for God. IF God is supposed to be all wise and all just then it is the one to judge, not puny, finite humans. Although, I can hope that shitty people like Duggar, et. al. can be sentenced to eternal torment. 

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NancyDrewFan1989

I see a lot of comments about Anna and honestly, I can't make up my mind about her. One one hand I do think that she is learning more about the charges as she goes. Yes, Josh's business was raided back in November 2019, but we don't know what he told her. Josh went out of his way to make sure that Anna didn't receive a report from Covenant Eyes. Josh, probably, spun her an employee must've done it. The only problem is it looks like, to me, the only employees Josh has are his siblings and one or two close friends. I don't think Anna was fully aware of the seriousness of the charges because Josh seemed to go to work to start covering it up and put on the perfect Christian loving husband and father figure image. Remember during the court hearing Josh's attorney asked the agent if he could prove Josh is the one who viewed it? Josh has been hard at work covering his tracks and blaming this on someone else. Anna, because she is brainwashed, completely believes him. Josh has a history of twisting his disgusting sexual desires, then using his faith by saying "Christ's love and forgiveness helped him through it". After all, he told Anna and her family about the molestation of his sisters (albeit not all the details) into a story of Christ's love and forgiveness. The only way Anna will be able to break free is if her parents get her the EF out of there and who knows how they are taking this. Josh has been successfully conning her parents for years and this time it is, probably, no different. 

Basically, all I am trying to say is give Anna a bit of a break. Her husband is a successful master manipulator who happens to be a repulsive pedophile and her entire charmed Christian life is going to crap because of it. If this whole thing goes through a trial, then I can see Anna being completely gaslighted with Josh's deception and complete betrayal of her, their children, and her family during this time. The more evidence that comes out the more likely she will may be able to see him for the monster he is. Whether she will pack up and leave him, personally, I think it is too soon to tell.

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eljayem
17 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I would too. Those few moments in between hearing the news and deciding it was Satan's fault. I would definitely pay to see that.

My speculation is that Josh has slowly been drip feeding information, reluctantly, making it seem less than it is. It's his MO to keep hiding stuff in the hopes it won't come out, he's not the sort to come clean unless made to. He knew Ashley Madison had been hacked and that information had to come out at some point and didn't do anything about it to warn his family. So my guess is that they knew some of it but the court appearance/ bail hearing whatever it is had some surprises in it for the family.

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NancyDrewFan1989
1 hour ago, Howl said:

Derrick Dillard tweeted that he graduated from University of Arkansas Law School today.   

Has Jill ever expressed a desire to continue her education? 

 

Jill did graduate from midwife school and has her certificate. In the past JB and Michelle mentioned that she was interested in nursing school, so, she may still be interested in doing so. I know in the past she has assisted and worked alongside midwives during births. So, she may go back to school once both Israel and Samuel are both enrolled school.

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NancyDrewFan1989
1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

I don’t think they accept the evidence.  They know he is in trouble, but they are ready to believe that either he is being blamed for something he didn’t do (someone else downloaded all the nasty stuff, or it is a frame up by the evil left) or if he did it, then it probably was in a moment of weakness, when he was overcome by Satan’s temptation. Since he has now repented, everything is now okay, his soul is fine.

That is the whole problem with their faith. Josh is a proven pedophile who has and never will change. Jim Bob and Michelle forced their daughters to forgive Josh and if they followed Gothardian rules blamed them for part of it after he assaulted them. Anna forgave him completely after he got exposed for the Ashley Madison scandal and blamed herself. The only difference is this time Josh is facing multiple years in jail and owing thousands of dollars in fines. Their whole belief system is forgive now ask questions later if you are a woman because you are to blame for a man's sin. It's just totally and completely disgusting. 

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QuiverFullOfCondoms
54 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I would too. Those few moments in between hearing the news and deciding it was Satan's fault. I would definitely pay to see that.

I don’t think JB truly believes it’s Satan’s fault. He knows his son is messed up. All he cares is that it stays under wraps and doesn’t tarnish the brand. He could learn a thing or two from Kris Jenner on how she handles problem son Rob.

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baldricks_turnip
17 minutes ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Basically, all I am trying to say is give Anna a bit of a break. Her husband is a successful master manipulator who happens to be a repulsive pedophile and her entire charmed Christian life is going to crap because of it. If this whole thing goes through a trial, then I can see Anna being completely gaslighted with Josh's deception and complete betrayal of her, their children, and her family during this time. The more evidence that comes out the more likely she will may be able to see him for the monster he is. Whether she will pack up and leave him, personally, I think it is too soon to tell.

This is kind of where I am falling as well. I know (and know of) plenty of people who found it hard to see through their love and loyalty for their partner is see the scum within. And those were people who did not grow up in an oppressive culture that teaches women to obey and basically worship their husbands and that they will be worthless without them now that they are not virgins.

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OrchidBlossom
On 5/6/2021 at 9:41 PM, EmCatlyn said:

Sorry to indulge in thread-drift so soon in the new thread, but in the past thread some people snarked about how odd it would be to marry someone with the same name as one of your parents, and others seemed to agree.  I have to challenge that.  

My mother married a man with the same name as her father. My uncle (different side of the family) married a woman with the same name as his mother.  Neither one of them was kinky or weird.  My grandmother and my father both had very common names. 

My husband’s late wife had the same name as one of his sisters. Again, a very common name.   

More recently, my husband’s daughter married a man with the same name as my husband (her father). Again, it is a ridiculously common name.  No one thought it was weird.  (They do have different nicknames, but it is the same name.)

If we start getting snarky about people who marry (or date) people with the same name as their close relatives, we are seriously restricting the romantic options of those unfortunate enough to have very popular/common names or who are the children of parents with very common/popular names. 😉

Hi! Sorry, that was my comment. Just to be clear, I wasn't exactly snarking. It just made me laugh, especially because the way the article was worded it wasn't clear that they were two separate people immediately. And while I personally can't imagine dating anyone with the same name as a close family member, despite my family members having largely VERY generic names (think like, "Jack" "Mary" "Allie" "Sarah" "Joe" common-- despite the fact that I for some reason have a weird complicated French name and my siblings all have single syllable common names), I'm not at all judging those who do. Different people would have different comfort levels there.

I didn't see any comments/responses to me that were snarking, but if I sparked any snark that made you uncomfortable I'm super sorry! I just genuinely thought it was an interesting "fun fact" and *personally* couldn't do that. I believe I mentioned later in the thread that I do have friends who have married people with names that are also family members' names. Or married people who have family members with their names. All just personal preference.

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Mela99

I could honestly see Meech in near catatonic shock over this.

I would so love to know what’s going on in that house right now.

Seeing them confront Smug for the first time since released from jail.

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HerNameIsBuffy
3 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I could honestly see Meech in near catatonic shock over this.

I would so love to know what’s going on in that house right now.

Seeing them confront Smug for the first time since released from jail.

Who, JB and M?  Those baby sitters are sure going to have a lot of annoying company in addition to Smuggar.

To the bolded:  I can too.  I'm guessing alternating between that and apoplectic rage.  There has to be part of her that in addition to the embarrassment, the hit to the brand, etc. is actual grief and shame.

I just hope there are adults around there who are able to keep relatively chill taking care of all the kids....that place has got to be a powder keg of tension and every kid in that place has to be feeling it.

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HereComesTreble
1 hour ago, justoneoftwo said:

Yes, sorry, doing this on my phone with voice command sorry

Oh, no problem!  Judaism has so many holidays—and because my family is only lightly practicing—I thought maybe there was a holiday I missed. 

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EmCatlyn
1 hour ago, Jess said:

They don’t get tourists visas often either. I know most countries do not require US citizens to have tourist visa but, they still ask if your a felon and sex offenders have special stamps in their passports that say they are sex offenders. I suppose he could find a country that would let Josh in as a tourist for a few months and tell people he is a missionary, but someone would probably report him for working in the country illegally. 

 

🤷🏻‍♀️I don’t know.  As I said, this was all a hypothetical about what JB might do. It was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.  😉  However, I never suggested that Josh would be a real missionary, only that JB would tell people that he was.  Nor did I suggest he would do any work. 😀  

I don’t know which countries are (or are not) particularly watchful about allowing felons as tourists.  But I do know a couple of people with criminal records in one Latin American country who relocated (moved and started new jobs) in a different Latin American country without any problems.  So I wouldn’t entirely rule out that JB might send Josh away (especially if he can pay a few bribed here and there).  

However, I don’t think JB's likely to do anything of the sort.  He is probably hoping some avenging angel with a fiery sword will best up Josh and make him godly.  And Anna is not going to divorce Josh.

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EmCatlyn
32 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Hi! Sorry, that was my comment. Just to be clear, I wasn't exactly snarking. It just made me laugh, especially because the way the article was worded it wasn't clear that they were two separate people immediately. And while I personally can't imagine dating anyone with the same name as a close family member, despite my family members having largely VERY generic names (think like, "Jack" "Mary" "Allie" "Sarah" "Joe" common-- despite the fact that I for some reason have a weird complicated French name and my siblings all have single syllable common names), I'm not at all judging those who do. Different people would have different comfort levels there.

I didn't see any comments/responses to me that were snarking, but if I sparked any snark that made you uncomfortable I'm super sorry! I just genuinely thought it was an interesting "fun fact" and *personally* couldn't do that. I believe I mentioned later in the thread that I do have friends who have married people with names that are also family members' names. Or married people who have family members with their names. All just personal preference.

😀 Not a problem.  I just find it funny.  Probably it was not so much snark as, “I can’t believe anyone would do that,” and I had to snark a little at that attitude.

People just respond in different ways to names and initials. 

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OrchidBlossom
Just now, EmCatlyn said:

😀 Not a problem.  I just find it funny.  Probably it was not so much snark as, “I can’t believe anyone would do that,” and I had to snark a little at that attitude.

People just respond in different ways to names and initials. 

Yeah I mean I really just can't imagine it! As I mentioned though, I did date a guy with the same name as my dad in high school. It wasn't a "dealbreaker" but I never could quite get comfy with it.

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BlackberryGirl

My favorite cousin’s father’s name was “Joe” her husband is “joe” their son is “joe.” She also has 2 cousins “joe.”  Its a hoot. Oh and an aunt Jo! 

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neuroticcat
2 hours ago, Howl said:

Derrick Dillard tweeted that he graduated from University of Arkansas Law School today.   

Has Jill ever expressed a desire to continue her education? 

 

Speculation train coming: what if he was the Reddit law student summing up the hearing? That would explain how that person had access, especially if Jill was maybe attending. Wasn’t that law student finishing up a final? I want this to be true! 
 

But good for him. I hope they continue to move away from the cult and heal from the trauma. 

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Jencendiary
2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If JB didn't know until Josh was going to turn himself in....OMG to be a fly on the wall when he found out.

From Emily D. Baker's coverage of the zoom call, the way the task force guys framed it it went something like

1. Task force guys call Josh Duggar and tell him that they have a warrant and are around his property, but don't want to bust in and risk damage to his home or scaring his children (woo hoo for white privilege for mediocre, potato-faced former state senator's sons! you know if this were a Black family, they'd have no reservations of the sort.). They tell him to please surrender himself.

2. Anna drives him to the police station.

So, it doesn't look like anyone anticipated the arrest, even if they knew about the investigation after the raid. 

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