[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 28:Does anyone wonder how many times JB has phoned up Mike Huckabee?

[Rachel333]

1 minute ago, seraaa said:

Ok, fine, but this implies he an Anna will live apart from the children until the trial? Unless the directive not to be around minors excludes his own children.

It might. It's not uncommon for that order not to include the offender's own children.

[SassyPants]

Why does JB, who has very publicly stated that his way of living and raising children to adulthood is superior to how most people live and raise their children, not think that he and his superiorly raised offspring can work for a living to support their growing families? If his methods are so great, why don’t any of his adulthood children have paying jobs outside of the show? And if they do, how come they’ve never shown any of that on their reality show?

JB thinks that because he’s had 19 kids, he should have a media career and easy money. Hell, CO didn’t even involve JB or M, yet they still received the paychecks and were PO’d that the Dillards, who the show WAS about and who DID work the show wanted to get paid?

WTH...this guy is beyond narcissistic and controlling-

[Rachel333]

Also from TMZ,

Quote

In docs, Duggar says he's not a flight risk ... and he can prove it. He claims he "has no criminal convictions, and has known about this federal criminal investigation since November 2019 when Homeland Security Investigations executed a search of Duggar’s prior workplace."

What's more ... he claims he's maintained an open dialogue with the U.S. Attorney's Office in connection with this probe. And, get this ... Duggar argues he's not a flight risk because he "has a widely-recognizable face and has spent the majority of his life in the public spotlight — making any concern that he is a risk of flight all the more unwarranted." Duggar's lawyer makes note he and his family were in a hit reality show.

And, in trying to drive home the point... Duggar points to the feds allowing him to voluntarily self-surrender ... and says he complied as directed.

I think it was obvious, but this does confirm that this is directly connected to the raid and that he has known about the investigation since then. I'm more curious about what and when his family knew about it.

[luv2laugh]

I'm laughing at a meme I saw about how Christians are all about the children when it comes to being pro-life. famously not when it comes to children after they're born, but now, not when it comes to a predator living around TTH.  I'm thinking of the times Anna was on Instagram wearing pro-life T shirts and such.

Edited May 4, 2021 by luv2laugh

[nolongerIFBx]

I'm still back on Topic 26, but what keeps hitting me as someone brought up in a similar culture (IFBx), is how many people--even his cousin--comment on him smiling and can't understand why he is smiling. We were taught to ALWAYS SMILE. There were no other options. If you broke your leg, smile. If your parents fought like cats and dogs all the way to church, smile. If your grandma just died, smile. You've heard of resting bitch face, but we were trained to have resting smiling face. Josh doesn't know how not to smile. That is his default.

[AreYouThereGothard?]

@feministxtian your doggo looks like a chocolate babka. She’s a pleasant distraction from Duggar bashing 

[feministxtian]

3 minutes ago, AreYouThereGothard? said:

@feministxtian your doggo looks like a chocolate babka. She’s a pleasant distraction from Duggar bashing 

she's a pleasant distraction from everything!!! I swear she's the best pup! She's currently sprawled out on the living room floor snoozing. She'll get up the minute I get up. I've never, ever had such a mellow puppy

[luv2laugh]

The psychologist, Dr. Todd Grande, that makes a lot of videos on narcissism just released one on Josh Duggar and I'm excited to watch this.

He's about to explain if people like him can be effectively treated. I will link the video below (at the 9min mark where he begins talking about Josh's current arrest):

"Being sorry is not enough to protect innocent victims"

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by luv2laugh

[justoneoftwo]

Fascinating, thank you for linking that video 

[JenniferJuniper]

4 hours ago, TN-peach said:

Then there are those that are looking at adult porn but probably very graphic porn and when they download 1000 images there may be 5 images of CSA in the group they downloaded.  By the time they have downloaded all 1000 images, it is too late they now have possession of CSA images.  This usually happens when you are looking for not "mainstream" porn images on the dark web. 

I am curious as to the number of actual images he has downloaded.  If it is a relatively small number, I wonder if he downloaded the CSA images when he was downloading a large batch of adult porn. His reason for possession won't matter as far as the charges goes.  CSA images are evil. 

This crossed by mind, because I'd heard this can happen, and it isn't necessarily a defense but could instead be a mitigating factor.

Two things though.  I'm clueless about the dark web, but given the literal rivers of porn out there on the regular web, would someone not looking for something really bad or illegal have to actually go to these hidden sites to satisfy their particular fetish? I mean, I watched a part of a documentary on YouTube once about a guy who died after having sex with a horse.  It seems like anything goes now and only someone looking for child porn or stuff like snuff films would be out there in the first place. Evil intent, so to speak. 

Secondly, Josh actually did molest little children as young as 5 in his past. So there's that.

Putting these two things together, I tend to think Josh's focus was on kiddie porn. 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

17 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

The psychologist, Dr. Todd Grande, that makes a lot of videos on narcissism just released one on Josh Duggar and I'm excited to watch this.

He's about to explain if people like him can be effectively treated. I will link the video below (at the 9min mark where he begins talking about Josh's current arrest):

"Being sorry is not enough to protect innocent victims"

  Hide contents

 

 

I love Dr. Grande!  Paraphrasing:  'I am not diagnosing anybody, just speculating on what someone who did something like this may be like.'  And his voice is super soothing and he's so stoic.  He's my second favorite youtube therapist next to Dr. Rahmini.

42 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

It might. It's not uncommon for that order not to include the offender's own children.

Why?  They would put an order in place to protect every child, except the ones most likely to be victimized and stay silent?!  What could possibly be the reasoning behind this?

[justoneoftwo]

Courts take "parents righrs" very seriously, often there has to be a credible threat if imminent harm to remove a child from a parent, and the parents almost always still get visitation 

[luv2laugh]

It disgusts me that Josh didn't even try to get help for himself. Like Dr. Todd Grande said in the video, it seem like a situation of someone who had every incentive to get help and chose not to.  Why didn't Josh get a vasectomy? He could've found a way to do that without telling anyone. When he first married Anna, he said he'd be ok even with 1-2. He kept putting himself in situations where others are vulnerable.

Edited May 4, 2021 by luv2laugh

[justoneoftwo]

Just now, luv2laugh said:

It disgusts me that Josh didn't even try to get help for himself. Like Dr. Todd Grande said in the video, it seem like a situation of someone who had every incentive to get help and chose not to.  Why didn't Josh get a vasectomy? He could've found a way to do that without telling anyone. 

How would a vasectomy have helped him?

[luv2laugh]

Just now, justoneoftwo said:

How would a vasectomy have helped him?

Less potential opportunities to offend. I'm not saying anything happened but if he is guilty, these people are supposed to not be around minors because of the risk.

Edited May 4, 2021 by luv2laugh

[Antimony]

17 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I love Dr. Grande!  Paraphrasing:  'I am not diagnosing anybody, just speculating on what someone who did something like this may be like.'  And his voice is super soothing and he's so stoic.  He's my second favorite youtube therapist next to Dr. Rahmini.

Can I put in a good word for the good Dr. Kirk Honda? I'd be interested in his comments. He's been reviewing the Plaths, but so far no Duggars.

[Rachel333]

17 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Why?  They would put an order in place to protect every child, except the ones most likely to be victimized and stay silent?!  What could possibly be the reasoning behind this?

Like justoneoftwo said, parents' rights. Personally I still find it really disturbing to think of someone like that living with any children though.

[EmCatlyn]

48 minutes ago, Phyllis_Stein said:

I guess it's ok to deal with Jewish people (Jewish lawyers, in this case) when you need to get out of a child sex abuse crime. 

Have they said anything about not dealing with Jews?  I would have thought they were the type that feel called upon to convert the Jews to Christianity as part of their service towards the Second Coming.

(My ex-husband is a secular ethnic Jew.  While we were married, we owned a house that needed some work. The handyman/contractor was a Bible-thumping Baptist who believed that Christ would return when the Jews accepted Jesus.  He really wanted to convert my husband — who was at work while I was the one supervising the work.  So at every break they took, or any time I went over to see how the work was going, he would take a moment or two to quote scripture at me and lesson me in what I was to tell my husband to bring about his conversion.)

[luv2laugh]

I don't like the Duggars but, I have to say, I can't imagine how traumatizing and triggering this news is to his victims.  I feel bad for them but I hope that they reevaluate their parents' toxic parenting and belief system. At least Jill is able to actively process this in therapy but we don't know if the others are getting help. Maybe Jill can somehow encourage it.

Edited May 4, 2021 by luv2laugh

[OrchidBlossom]

4 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

All I know from the paperwork @ofMatthew posted is that the warrant was issued the day before it was served.  

Maybe one of our legal experts here can tell us what the usual time is between grand jury indictment and issuance of the warrant?

It's usually pretty speedy. I think it might be 30 days? 45? I was a Criminal Procedure nerd I should remember. Also, grand jury indictments can and often are sealed, such that no one including the defendant even knows they are occurring. I'm almost 100% certain Josh didn't know there was an indictment, even if he knew something might be happening in a vague sense.

Edited May 4, 2021 by OrchidBlossom
lol apparently I can't even remember the names of my fave law classes, wouldn't make much sense to be a CivPro nerd here.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

I don't like the Duggars but, I have to say, I can't imagine how traumatizing and triggering this news is to his victims.  I feel bad for them but I hope that they reevaluate their parents' toxic parenting and belief system. At least Jill is able to actively process this in therapy but we don't know if the others are getting help. Maybe Jill can somehow encourage it.

I've been thinking about that a lot lately, too.  I have no snark for any of his victims and I can't imagine how hard this has to be for them...and now with mom and daddy paying for a high powered legal team I'd be shocked if they weren't retraumatized.  I hope they are able to find whatever peace they can.

And I hope JB and M rot in hell for what they've done to them.

[hoipolloi]

The high-powered and expensive legal defense team tells me that the Federal government has a strong case against Josh -- this is not a matter of "clicking on the wrong pop up by mistake." 

It will be interesting to see if any religious issues come up in the defense's arguments.

Wouldn't it be ironic if JB's & M's criminally negligent decision to eschew real treatment for the younger Josh years ago on account of their toxic religion gets brought up as justification for why he was unable to deal with his ongoing mental disorder as an adult?

[Drala]

@Antimony wrote: "Apparently, *most* childhood sexual abuse is child-to-child and almost always a child over 12 to a child under 12. (What's sickening is that the vast majority of this offending children are acting out something that has happened to them already...)."  A very high percentage of adolescents seen in clinical settings have had sexual contact as children with other children or teens.  Some of these adolescents will act out with younger children.  As prepubescent children, they may also have acted out with same age and younger children. In some cultures, child on child sexual activity is fairly common and broadly tolerated.  What is the difference between normative sex play among children/very young teens and sexual perpetuation?  An age difference greater than 2 years, the presence of developmental disparities, and the use of force or coercion in the sexual activity are important considerations. It's extremely important to evaluate the power differential involved in a sexualized transaction between children, because not all childhood sexual activity should be characterized as abuse.  

Spoiler

Masterbation is an example of childhood sexual activity that should not necessarily be pathologized.  Mutual exploration of genitals is another.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Drala

[FunFunFundie]

If Josh “isn’t a flight risk” because he’s known about this since 2019, doesn’t that suggest he knew exactly what was on his computer? Doesn’t that make it difficult to plead ignorance?

Edited May 4, 2021 by FunFunFundie

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Any legal eagles want to take a guess at what this defense will cost them?  A quick google says the first Menendez trial racked up $1.9 mil in legal fees back then.